Winners

Arsenal and Manchester United
Sometimes it is possible to impress without being impressive.

Neither side had an overwhelming case to be considered deserved victors - which is why their victories mattered so much. Displaying qualities they are rarely required to summon, ManYoo were obdurate and defiant, while Arsenal matched their opponents blow for blow, foul for foul. For Arsene Wenger and Sir Alex Ferguson, ugly was beautiful. Battling does not come naturally to either team so emerging victorious from their respective local dogfights counted for much more than the three points they collected.

Grand Slam Sunday hasn't transformed the Premiership into a two-way title race but it has - temporarily at least - removed Liverpool from the equation. The Gunners have been the story of the season so far but ManYoo are still the team to beat.


William Gallas
John Terry was required to score nine goals in 2004-05 to become the first defender to win the PFA Player of the Year award since Paul McGrath in 1993. His regular partner at centre-half that season has heeded the lesson, becoming a regular scorer of critical goals this season - the vital injury-time equaliser against Manchester United last month, the late opener against Wigan a few weeks ago, and the winner this weekend against his former employers.

Captaincy has proved the making of Gallas. If his side does prevail in the title race then the Frenchman will be on the shortlist to rival Cesc Fabregas for the end-of-season individual gongs - especially if he continues to create headlines in the only way possible for defenders.


Sir Alex Ferguson
It was early in February 2002 that Sir Alex Ferguson announced he was u-turning on his intention to retire at the end of the season.

Little more than two weeks previously, the Scot had watched his side beaten at Old Trafford by Liverpool. It was the visitors' fifth successive win over their arch rivals and Ferguson looked in danger of spontaneously combusting. The Manchester United manager has never acknowledged as much in public, but retirement in such ignominious circumstances was unthinkable.

Of all the fixtures in the Premiership, an encounter with Liverpool is the one that Ferguson relishes above all others. Arsenal matter. And so do Chelski. But these games, particularly the trips to Anfield, are his personal cup final.

The Scot has never hidden his distaste for the red side of Liverpool, famously remarking in an interview that his priority upon taking over at Old Trafford was "knocking Liverpool off their f**king perch." His next sentence, "And you can quote me on that," wasn't so much an assurance as an urging.

Beaten in five of their last six meetings at Anfield, Liverpool must be sick of the sight of Ferguson. But he isn't finished with them yet.

In a revealing aside during his press conference on Friday, Ferguson commented: "We've won the FA Cup more times than anyone and you get a certain pride in that. But Liverpool have won the title more times than anyone, so the chase is on."

Is this the final goal - along with an elusive second Champions League title - that stirs Ferguson's appetite? The prickly subject of retirement is off limits for journalists who value access to his weekly sermon, but it is reasonable to infer from Ferguson's commentary that he has set himself the goal of overhauling Pool's title successes before walking out of Old Trafford.

Put in that context, Ferguson suddenly becomes an old man in a hurry. Currently trailing 18 to 16 in title triumphs, he will be in his 70th year in 2010 - the earliest point in time when United can overtake Liverpool - and the issue of retirement unavoidable. Hence, perhaps, his description of his final challenge as a "chase".


Anderson and Mathieu Flamini
Lauding Anderson as the best midfielder in the Premiership is premature. But maybe not for long. The 19-year-old rivals Mathieu Flamini as the surprise success story of the season and has the happy knack of saving his best performances for the biggest occasions - against Cesc Fabregas at Arsenal in November and against Steven Gerrard at Liverpool this weekend.

He is a difficult midfielder to describe. Neither a shield nor a goal threat, he is, like Flamini, a workaholic. Having replaced two players, Michael Carrick and Gilberto Silva, who are slumbering sleepwalkers in comparison, their energetic emergence chimes with the impression that the Premiership has rapidly moved up a gear this season to become faster and more frenetic than ever before.


Manuel Almunia
His most convincing performance yet.


The Premiership
Grand Slam Sunday can only ever live up to its hype if both matches generate six goals apiece, two mass brawls, and a naked pitch invasion by Girls Aloud.

What it does generate every time, however, is millions of pounds through its worldwide appeal.

There is no league in the world that can offer up four heavyweights in two fights on a single afternoon. The Premiership's most marketable attraction is unique. Italy can only offer three heavyweights - Juventus, AC Milan and Inter Milan - and the Primera Liga just two - Barcelona and Real Madrid. Bayern Munich stand alone in Germany.

Grand Slam matches never live up to the occasion, but the league's capacity to put Liverpool, Chelski, Arsenal and Manchester United on the same bill on the same afternoon is an integral factor in its status as the richest in the world and its claim to be the best.


Losers

Liverpool
Overall, Grand Slam Sunday was suggestive. For Liverpool, it felt defining. As he headed into his make-or-break meeting with the club's owners, at least Rafa Benitez had a convincing argument to make as he requested new funds. But this wasn't what Tom Hicks and George Gillett would have wanted to hear. And this wasn't the performance that the Liverpool supporters needed to see.

What made it so galling was that the home side saw so much of the ball. Bereft of a spark and imagination, Benitez's claim that, "We had our chances and didn't take them" was equally hopeless. Pool created very little of note and appeared to run out of ideas even before the hour mark.

Liverpool are a good side but good isn't enough to win titles. Too much reliance is placed upon Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres and too many of their colleagues are sub-standard in Big Four terms. Dirk Kuyt is in a horrible slump, Harry Kewell is no longer willing to run at his full-back, Yossi Benayoun looked like a West Ham player and the team as a whole suffered for Jamie Carragher and Sami Hyypia's inability to hoof accurately, let alone pass.

A league table never lies and the one compiled of Big Four results since Rafa's arrival in the summer of 2004 finds Liverpool in fourth place having collected a meagre 15 points from 21 games. Chelski, Arsenal and ManYoo have travelled to Anfield this season and the home side have garnered a paltry two points. Like the team itself, it's just not good enough.

For Benitez, this was a chastening afternoon. He had no answer to the puzzle set by Ferguson and the visitors' goal was clearly effected by the Scot - or, just as likely, Carlos Queiroz - spotting a critical flaw in Benitez's beloved zonal marking. On a day that ended with his demand for investment, it was his reluctance to invest a little independence in his side that proved decisive.

One of the least endearing aspects of Benitez's management is his apparent control freakery. In contrast to his Big Four peers, he prowls the touchline, directing operations, urging synchronised movement as if he does not trust his players to act by instinct. As they lined up in two banks of four to defend United's 45th-minute corner, nobody in red sought to consider the whereabouts of Wayne Rooney. Only Jamie Carragher, a member of the second line of four robotic defenders, was willing to break with orders, and he very nearly cleared the danger. Had one of the four players closer to Rooney reacted then the emergency would have been averted.

A small detail, but precisely the type that Benitez obsesses over.


Chelski
A difficult task may now be an insurmountable challenge. Already deprived of Didier Drogba, the loss of John Terry is a heavy blow and one that perhaps will prove their undoing. It didn't feel like Chelski's day on Sunday; it has rarely felt like being their season.

Ben Haim was a shoddy stand-in for the skipper at the Emirates, weakly pushed aside as William Gallas capitalised on Petr Cech's misjudgement. It's reasonable to assume that Terry would have cleared the danger or at least denied his counterpart a free header.

Yet it is the absence of Drogba which Chelski will mourn most. Chelski finished the match with all their available forwards on their pitch but not the one who could be relied upon to provide a finishing product. In eight Premiership and Champions League matches without the Ivorian this season, Chelski have scored just six goals.

Set pieces were a regular source of relief during the Mourinho era but under Avram Grant's management a strength has lapsed into a weakness. With both Grand Slam Sunday matches won by goals from corners, the Blues' reduced potency from dead balls was put into sharp focus. What a contrast to the meeting two years ago at Highbury when Chelski threatened from every corner and John Terry secured a point with a thumping near-post header.

In both method and identity, the current Chelski team only faintly resembles the team that secured back-to-back triumphs in 2005 and '06. Of the 11 players who clinched the title at Bolton two Aprils ago, only Cech and Frank Lampard finished this Sunday's fixture.


Ashley Cole
If there hadn't been enough abuse hurled at Cashley for the previous two hours, Sky inadvertently meted out the most hurtful insult of the day by awarding Gael Clichy the man-of-the-match award. As the player who was once Cole's understudy took the accolades alongside match-winner William Gallas, it was impossible not to conclude that the definitive answer to last August's question of which club had got the better deal when Gallas and Cole swapped employers has been presented.

While Cole has gone backwards, and caused an understandably disgruntled Wayne Bridge to consider his own future at Stamford Bridge, Gallas has been inspired by the captaincy to become one of the season's most valuable performers and Clichy has progressed into a left-back that only Patrice Evra can rival in the Premiership.

Rather than heckle him, Arsenal fans should consider applauding Cole for engineering such a valuable piece of business in the Gunners' favour little over a year ago.

And that really would be the final insult.

Pete Gill

They also have the player ratings for both games.

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_2986570,00.html

Bet Kimbo will love this thread.

Spankeltoe wrote:He had no answer to the puzzle set by Ferguson and the visitors' goal was clearly effected by the Scot - or, just as likely, Carlos Queiroz - spotting a critical flaw in Benitez's beloved zonal marking. On a day that ended with his demand for investment, it was his reluctance to invest a little independence in his side that proved decisive.

as i said recently i think queiroz is running a lot of what is going on at the mo, i tend to agree with this statement. saf's weakness has always been tactics, carlos is much better in this area, hence i think its more likely this was a CQ spot rather than a SAF spot

I don't think anyone on this forum has more agenda's than you Frank. Not even Otto.

its not an agenda, imho v clever of SAF. it takes guts to admit your failings, he has appointed somebody who is v good at what he is not, hence the tactics are prob more down to CQ than SAF imho. and he has a lot of clout in your transfers too, hence 2 major signings from portugal

I actually agree with Frank to a degree , CQ is a very good tactician , by the way if Rio isnt a winner in his column then English media only care about goals and stats and nothing else rather then a impeccable display.
I read a Liverpool fan who said it doesnt matter what striker we throw at him he schools them.

Dark Savante wrote:I actually agree with Frank to a degree , CQ is a very good tactician , by the way if Rio isnt a winner in his column then English media only care about goals and stats and nothing else rather then a impeccable display.
I read a Liverpool fan who said it doesnt matter what striker we throw at him he schools them.

I read some of rawk, and most of them are surprisingly realistic, and actually had a fair opinion of what took place.

This guys words on Anderson is just what i was saying a month or 2 ago. When people laughed then they cant laugh now Anderson will start to score goals in time also, and when he does thats when he will have everything. But outplaying Gerrard and Cesc well that will do for now

Anderson looks fucking fabulous, and that isn't based upon his one performance against us yesteday, his range of passing and vision is top draw, and he will thrive in training watching Scholes as well.

Definately a player i like to watch.

Super purchase for you mancs (well would have been for anyone hes that good)

L r d wrote:

Dark Savante wrote:I actually agree with Frank to a degree , CQ is a very good tactician , by the way if Rio isnt a winner in his column then English media only care about goals and stats and nothing else rather then a impeccable display.
I read a Liverpool fan who said it doesnt matter what striker we throw at him he schools them.

I read some of rawk, and most of them are surprisingly realistic, and actually had a fair opinion of what took place.

:

They are. However before every season and every match up, they then revert to normal. 'This year will be different'.

Time for Liverpool to give Lucas a chance perhaps shift off Mascherano/Sissoko you dont need them you need to give Leiva a chance look impressive I might add.
Babel was another one that impressed me powerful running with pace , he just caused a havoc for a min , hes a bit headless though , definately play in a more forward position then wing.

Spankeltoe wrote:They also have the player ratings for both games.

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8742_2986570,00.html

Bet Kimbo will love this thread.

very good ratings, will start looking out for them in the future. The only two i don't agree with are the kewell and mikel ones especially mikel's as i thought he was chelsea's best player ( would have given him a 7 myself)

I don't think Lucas would offer a huge amount more.

Apart from Gerrard, our midfield just does not contribute enough goals.

Kewell has only just returned, and he definately has lost a yard or two of pace, but hes got great vision, touch and technique and of course experience, and i think should he stay fit he will be an excellent player for us, but Benayoun is a very similar player to Kewell, and i think what we really need is somebody more direct, somebody who can take the full back on and make things happen. But this is the year in year out debate us Liverpool fans have each summer, who to buy on the wings.

The thing that really pisses me off, is that its not like there is a lack of talent available its about having the conviction to identify them and bring them here.

All of United's signings would have brought something to the Liverpool squad this year, but we were never even in the running, it does pose the question.... why?

Spankeltoe wrote:For Benitez, this was a chastening afternoon. He had no answer to the puzzle set by Ferguson and the visitors' goal was clearly effected by the Scot - or, just as likely, Carlos Queiroz - spotting a critical flaw in Benitez's beloved zonal marking. On a day that ended with his demand for investment, it was his reluctance to invest a little independence in his side that proved decisive.

I didn't know Alan Hansen/Andy Gray wrote for football365.

When Crouch knocked Man U out of the FA Cup was Peter Crouch's header a sign that Benitez had spotted a flaw in Ferguson's beloved man-marking ?

Of course it wasn't because man-marking isn't "foreign".

Its amazing that Milan and Liverpool have taken up 4 of the last 6 Champions League final berths with this crazy zonal-marking.

If a player or players don't do their job(s) properly at set pieces you get done whether or not you use zonal or man-marking.

I think pool should play benayoun or kewell in a more central role( behind a single striker ie torres) against the top sides.

roughly something like this:

-------------------torres
kewell-------------benayoun-------babel
------Alonso/mascherano---gerrard----

I think Lucas will add creativity he isnt a typical DMC , its time to give young guys a chance if they are good enough(I know Xavi , Momo , Masch are all young) , Would a midfield of Lucas and Xavi be bad ,both can pass both can create and both can defend.
Gerrard on the right though.
Quaresma definately should be a target , Lennon , Milner ,Hatem Ben Arfa , Samir Nasri(AMC) , Rosina ,Montolivo (playmaker I know) ,Diego Capel , Jesus Navas , VDV? etc on top of my head , you probably have to pay for some of these but there are players.

Agooner wrote:I think pool should play benayoun or kewell in a more central role( behind a single striker ie torres) against the top sides.

roughly something like this:

-------------------torres
kewell-------------benayoun-------babel
------Alonso/mascherano---gerrard----

No.

The only Liverpool player who can play the role you have given Benayoun is Gerrard (before that Luis Garcia too).

You have to be a goal threat to play there not just a creator.

Get VDV for that role ,its simple.

That's exactly my point DS.

It's not like there isn't talent out there, but instead we've bought the likes of Pennant, Benayoun, Gonzales etc....

Who are all gambles at the highest level, i just don't understand this transfer policy.

Unless they are young talents / rough diamonds, perhaps Babel being an example whats the point in buying seasoned pro's who haven't proven they can cut it week in week out at the very highest level - big games in league and champions league.

All very strange in my opinion.

Dark Savante wrote:Get VDV for that role ,its simple.

I don't think VDV will suit the English game, he'll be kicked of the pitch every match...

He might succeed at Arsenal, but I can't see it working out at any other club (and I do think he's the best player in the world).

Angelslammer wrote:

Dark Savante wrote:Get VDV for that role ,its simple.

I don't think VDV will suit the English game, he'll be kicked of the pitch every match...

He might succeed at Arsenal, but I can't see it working out at any other club (and I do think he's the best player in the world).

You think Arsenal players get kicked less than other players?

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Agooner wrote:I think pool should play benayoun or kewell in a more central role( behind a single striker ie torres) against the top sides.

roughly something like this:

-------------------torres
kewell-------------benayoun-------babel
------Alonso/mascherano---gerrard----

No.

The only Liverpool player who can play the role you have given Benayoun is Gerrard (before that Luis Garcia too).

You have to be a goal threat to play there not just a creator.

Hleb isn't a goal threat, but has been magnificient for us playing that role. I also believe kewell and benayoun are better in that role than gerrard because they are generally better at using the ball in those areas. Trickery, ability to play play clever little passes etc are far more important attribute to have than pace and power when playing in a central area against a packed defence.

What I have seen at HSV he can hack it ,specially because he isnt be going to play in midfield he will play no 10 for Liverpool for eg he will have 2 players protecting him etc, he's not that soft it may be difficult against one or 2 teams but he can hack i,t

Spankeltoe wrote:

Angelslammer wrote:

Dark Savante wrote:Get VDV for that role ,its simple.

I don't think VDV will suit the English game, he'll be kicked of the pitch every match...

He might succeed at Arsenal, but I can't see it working out at any other club (and I do think he's the best player in the world).

You think Arsenal players get kicked less than other players?

probably meant vdv suits our passing game better.

Yes i also think he'd be a very good buy coz it's not like his game is based on getting the ball to him as quickly as possible.

Agooner wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Agooner wrote:I think pool should play benayoun or kewell in a more central role( behind a single striker ie torres) against the top sides.

roughly something like this:

-------------------torres
kewell-------------benayoun-------babel
------Alonso/mascherano---gerrard----

No.

The only Liverpool player who can play the role you have given Benayoun is Gerrard (before that Luis Garcia too).

You have to be a goal threat to play there not just a creator.

Hleb isn't a goal threat, but has been magnificient for us playing that role. I also believe kewell and benayoun are better in that role than gerrard because they are generally better at using the ball in those areas. Trickery, ability to play play clever little passes etc are far more important attribute to have than pace and power when playing in a central area against a packed defence.

If you are playing at the top of a diamond behind a front 2 yes - if you are playing in between 2 CM and 1 CF in a 4-5-1 no.

If you are playing the latter then you want height/the ability to arrive in the box at the right time/a powerful shot to make up for the fact that you only have 1 Forward.

eg Gerrard, Bodmer, Ballack* in his prime and at a lower level Damien Francis.


* The perfect player for this position.

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Agooner wrote:

Pierre Littbarski wrote:

Agooner wrote:I think pool should play benayoun or kewell in a more central role( behind a single striker ie torres) against the top sides.

roughly something like this:

-------------------torres
kewell-------------benayoun-------babel
------Alonso/mascherano---gerrard----

No.

The only Liverpool player who can play the role you have given Benayoun is Gerrard (before that Luis Garcia too).

You have to be a goal threat to play there not just a creator.

Hleb isn't a goal threat, but has been magnificient for us playing that role. I also believe kewell and benayoun are better in that role than gerrard because they are generally better at using the ball in those areas. Trickery, ability to play play clever little passes etc are far more important attribute to have than pace and power when playing in a central area against a packed defence.

If you are playing at the top of a diamond behind a front 2 yes - if you are playing in between 2 CM and 1 CF in a 4-5-1 no.

If you are playing the latter then you want height/the ability to arrive in the box at the right time/a powerful shot to make up for the fact that you only have 1 Forward.

eg Gerrard, Bodmer, Ballack* in his prime and at a lower level Damien Francis.


* The perfect player for this position.

Thing is u will hardly get the chance to have a pop at goal from a central area against the big sides. You can move to the wing, cut in and have a shot but the middle is almost always overloaded. You need players with the ability to unnlock defences. someone that can hold on the ball, draw players and play that quick clever little pass. Gerard playing as a CM( with his ability to time his runs into the box) will be one of the players who would hugely benefit from having such a creative player in that area of the pitch.

We clearly have a different opinion on this, but u just have to see how we've dealt* with the top sides in England since we started playing that way. Hleb - a player who doesn't fit the description of the players u want for the role - has been very instrumental for us against the big guns.

*We topped the big 4 league last season and we are doing well against them again this season.

Fully deserved criticism, I know they like to have a go at us when ever they can but I have no complaints this week.

Rafa's record against the other big 3 teams is simply not good enough, you can try and dress it up and talk about luck etc but the fact is we have scored 1 goal against United in the league under Rafa and it was an own goal, how on earth can we not have even had a goal? it's depressing to be honest. You'll very rarely take points off United, Arsenal and Chelsea at their homes yet we've given away 7 in our home games this season against them.

I just want the players to stand up and fucking be counted now, why the f@ck should we rely on Gerrard and Torres, I want to see Benayoun do something with the fucking ball, Kewell needs to run like his life depends on it or get out the team, Mascherano needs to have more efforts on goal and Dirk Kuyt needs to sort his fucking football out because he is certainly no goal scorer. If the players want the title then they should go out there and win it, f@ck all the American owners shite, we dont need to go and spend 100 million on players, we need to show a bit of bollocks and a bit of passion

Luis wrote:Fully deserved criticism, I know they like to have a go at us when ever they can but I have no complaints this week.

Rafa's record against the other big 3 teams is simply not good enough, you can try and dress it up and talk about luck etc but the fact is we have scored 1 goal against United in the league under Rafa and it was an own goal, how on earth can we not have even had a goal? it's depressing to be honest. You'll very rarely take points off United, Arsenal and Chelsea at their homes yet we've given away 7 in our home games this season against them.

I just want the players to stand up and fucking be counted now, why the f@ck should we rely on Gerrard and Torres, I want to see Benayoun do something with the fucking ball, Kewell needs to run like his life depends on it or get out the team, Mascherano needs to have more efforts on goal and Dirk Kuyt needs to sort his fucking football out because he is certainly no goal scorer. If the players want the title then they should go out there and win it, f@ck all the American owners shite, we dont need to go and spend 100 million on players, we need to show a bit of bollocks and a bit of passion

A bit of creativity wouldn't go amiss either.

We aren't going to get a Quaresma in January so we're going to have to rely on the players we already have, too many of them lack bollocks and confidence in the big games, yesterday we passed it about 5 times around the box and no one had a fucking shot, it was like they were afraid to shoot, only Babel did when he came on

You badly missed Alonso's creativity from the midfield, the number of times Hyypia just hoofed it to the forwards.

Gerrard getting owned by a kid in his first Anfield experience probably didnt help either.

Agooner wrote:
Thing is u will hardly get the chance to have a pop at goal from a central area against the big sides. You can move to the wing, cut in and have a shot but the middle is almost always overloaded

There will always be chances and the crowd of players can sometimes hinder the keeper.

Agooner wrote:You need players with the ability to unnlock defences. someone that can hold on the ball, draw players and play that quick clever little pass

So why is no one doing this anymore ?

Totti is moved up front, Nasri will end up playing on the left and cutting in as does Ronaldinho.

Riquelme is good to a certain level but got bullied into anonymity by Gilberto in the Champions League semi's - I'd like to see him bully a powerhouse like Bodmer, Ballack or Gerrard.

From an entertainment point of view I'd rather see a proper no 10 like Diego but in really tight games the deciding factor is someone getting on the end of a knockdown/arriving at the right time rather than a piece of creative brilliance - the players you're talking about just get stifled.