When will Newcastle learn ?

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Arnaud loves Catherine

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When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Arnaud loves Catherine on Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:44 pm

I told you....It is all the time the same problems at Newcastle. <Ale>

I know the great Puro will not agree with me on this one but def Allardyce was the good man for the job!

Newcastle should learn from the other top teams.Look for example Alex Ferguson.No one in this board will say he is a bad manager...Believe it or not he had huge problems when he started at MU.Same thing for Houllier when he first came at Liverpool.

He had a very bad first year..I'm not even sure he was in the top 6 with a top team like Liverpool.3 years later after winning 5 trophys he was considered as the best manager in the world by our Liverpool fans friends (some have maybe now short memory but Houllier was really fashion in 2001).

I will not start a propaganda pro Allardyce on this board but i respect what he has done at Bolton.I'm not saying Bolton played an amazing football with him as manager but he has improved them a lot...From d1 to PL and from bottom to top 6...They were even in the battle for the CL ticket until the end of the season when Everton finished 4th.

I have no idea why Newcastle is so "pro britanic managers" after all the mistakes these "awesome british managers" have done but i can't see an end to this mediocrity soon.Allardyce was a god coach..just needed time.Now what will happen ? Let me guess..Magpies will appoint a new english shitty manager and he'll be sack after 6 months.Oh dear some things never change hey ? <Ale>
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DS

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by DS on Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:45 pm

Very agreeable post , I hope anyone who gets the job at Newcastle gets time this time.
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Puro

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Puro on Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:57 pm

What's up Arnaud! I'm all for giving managers time much like you, but it's very important who you give it to. I tell you something, you know who fired Fat dumbass indirectly? Sven and Juande did!

Everyone was watching how Sven whooped Allardyce's butt TWICE. Juande is doing a marvelous job at Tottenham without the luxury of having signed his own players like Sven and Fat ass. Surely giving time to your manager is very important, but he has to show his competence somehow like Sven and Juande have done in such little time.

Now, Newcastle must appoint a good coach and support the new guy. People over here were convinced Fat ass was a good coach. Yes, he's a good coach for a small club with no pressure of winning anything like the Boltons. Did you know his success rate there was in the mid 30's%? There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches?

So yes, let's give managers time, but to the good ones. Redknapp can do the job, I'd give him time in any club. He's shown he can coach. There's Deschamps available, Jol would be a match made in heaven for Newcastle. The Dutch will be extra motivated. <Ale>
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:01 pm

Wow a Puro/Arnaud thread that has the potential to cause no controversy - can't say I disagree with either of you - especially on the Pressure/expectation thing.
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Kimbo

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:05 pm

I guarantee the people saying "give him time" etc haven't seen much of us this season. Especially the two Derby games, the Wigan game, and the Sunderland game. I guarantee it. <Ale>

I would've sacked him in the summer, not to give HIM time, but to give myself time to get the RIGHT man. ok

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:07 pm

I was Newcastle on football manager, and in my first season I got them into the champions league. Conclusive proof that I, in fact, am the right man for the job.
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Roger Hunt

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Roger Hunt on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:10 pm

Get your CV in Crouching!

Make sure you get a 2 year contract, then play a load of long-ball shite till you get sacked, sit back and count the cash.

Also - always lose v Liverpool, and get your players to kick the $h!t out of Man U; and sell Owen, N'zogbia, Emre and Martins to Liverpool for Voronin + 5.

Dwarf

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Dwarf on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:17 pm

Puro wrote:
Now, Newcastle must appoint a good coach and support the new guy. People over here were convinced Fat ass was a good coach. Yes, he's a good coach for a small club with no pressure of winning anything like the Boltons. Did you know his success rate there was in the mid 30's%? There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches?

So yes, let's give managers time, but to the good ones. Redknapp can do the job, I'd give him time in any club. He's shown he can coach. <Ale>

The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

British managers aren't worth touching if you aren't willing to give them time.
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Puro

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Puro on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:24 pm

Dwarf wrote:
The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches? <Ale>

I would trust my team in Harry's hands anyday over Fat Sam. I used to not rate Redknapp in the past, but he's shown he can coach. He also took Fat Sam behind the shed at St James. I understand Harry is not everyone's first choice, but I think the man can coach. Obiously he's not among the elite, but he's a notch below them, and two notches above Fat Sam. <Ale>
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Kimbo

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:28 pm

Puro wrote:
Dwarf wrote:
The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches? <Ale>

I would trust my team in Harry's hands anyday over Fat Sam. I used to not rate Redknapp in the past, but he's shown he can coach. He also took Fat Sam behind the shed at St James. I understand Harry is not everyone's first choice, but I think the man can coach. Obiously he's not among the elite, but he's a notch below them, and two notches above Fat Sam. <Ale>
He's shown he's good in a relegation battle and that he can take a team to midtable, no more. He finished 5th about 9/10 years ago, that's the best he's done. I don't want Redknapp, or any British manager infact. I feel it would be history repeating itself.
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Isco Benny

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:31 pm

Dwarf wrote:
Puro wrote:
Now, Newcastle must appoint a good coach and support the new guy. People over here were convinced Fat ass was a good coach. Yes, he's a good coach for a small club with no pressure of winning anything like the Boltons. Did you know his success rate there was in the mid 30's%? There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches?

So yes, let's give managers time, but to the good ones. Redknapp can do the job, I'd give him time in any club. He's shown he can coach. <Ale>

The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

British managers aren't worth touching if you aren't willing to give them time.

The same Harry Redknapp who blooded the likes of Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Rio Ferdinand, Jermain Defoe at West Ham,

the same guy who got West Ham promoted from the old first division and kept them in the premiership,

the same Redknapp who did the same with Portsmouth,

depends which way you look at it.

He's been a good manager in my opinion, and crucially, his teams have always played good football, on the floor, passing. He's never been afraid to risk playing flair players either, and seems to have worked well with foreign players in the latter stage of his career.

No reason why Redknapp couldnt do the job; took Portsmouth from relegation candidates when Perrin left, kept them up in the same season, and now a top 8-10 fixture
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L.r.d

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by L.r.d on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:31 pm

Dwarf wrote:
Puro wrote:
Now, Newcastle must appoint a good coach and support the new guy. People over here were convinced Fat ass was a good coach. Yes, he's a good coach for a small club with no pressure of winning anything like the Boltons. Did you know his success rate there was in the mid 30's%? There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches?

So yes, let's give managers time, but to the good ones. Redknapp can do the job, I'd give him time in any club. He's shown he can coach. <Ale>

The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

British managers aren't worth touching if you aren't willing to give them time.

Southampton were going down long before Harry took over, he almost saved them.

Portsmouth were bottom in division 1 when he took over. <Ale> The man is not gonna win the league with these teams, but he's done amazing for sure.
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Isco Benny

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:34 pm

Merry Krimbo wrote:
Puro wrote:
Dwarf wrote:
The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches? <Ale>

I would trust my team in Harry's hands anyday over Fat Sam. I used to not rate Redknapp in the past, but he's shown he can coach. He also took Fat Sam behind the shed at St James. I understand Harry is not everyone's first choice, but I think the man can coach. Obiously he's not among the elite, but he's a notch below them, and two notches above Fat Sam. <Ale>
He's shown he's good in a relegation battle and that he can take a team to midtable, no more. He finished 5th about 9/10 years ago, that's the best he's done. I don't want Redknapp, or any British manager infact. I feel it would be history repeating itself.

Naturally, because if Alex Ferguson came calling, Im sure you'd not want him. Based on being British <Ale>

Not even delving into realms of such fantasy- Mark Hughes would make a top coach at Newcastle.

Don't fool yourself that just because you "go foreign" it'll work.

Alain Perrin at Portsmouth, Santini at Spurs - means f@ck all

Van Gaal and Martin Jol should be the top targets. After that, Hughes or Redknapp in my opinion
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Fey

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Fey on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:40 pm

They should have given him more time ok
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Kimbo

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:42 pm

Don Fabio wrote:
Merry Krimbo wrote:
Puro wrote:
Dwarf wrote:
The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches? <Ale>

I would trust my team in Harry's hands anyday over Fat Sam. I used to not rate Redknapp in the past, but he's shown he can coach. He also took Fat Sam behind the shed at St James. I understand Harry is not everyone's first choice, but I think the man can coach. Obiously he's not among the elite, but he's a notch below them, and two notches above Fat Sam. <Ale>
He's shown he's good in a relegation battle and that he can take a team to midtable, no more. He finished 5th about 9/10 years ago, that's the best he's done. I don't want Redknapp, or any British manager infact. I feel it would be history repeating itself.

Naturally, because if Alex Ferguson came calling, Im sure you'd not want him. Based on being British <Ale>

Not even delving into realms of such fantasy- Mark Hughes would make a top coach at Newcastle.

Don't fool yourself that just because you "go foreign" it'll work.

Alain Perrin at Portsmouth, Santini at Spurs - means f@ck all

Van Gaal and Martin Jol should be the top targets. After that, Hughes or Redknapp in my opinion
Yeah, and if Bobby Robson turned into Peter Pan i wouldn't turn him down either. Rolling Eyes

The fact is that none of these British managers have achieved anything other than midtable, and they get far too much credit for it. Going foreign isn't guaranteed to work, but there are more talented managers out there with better credentials. Plus they are less likely to have preconcieved ideas about the players, i don't want to see a good ol' british manager come here and favour the english players, we've seen that before.
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L.r.d

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by L.r.d on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:50 pm

Kevil Keegan has gone from 100/1 to 7/1 I hope he takes over cause Newcastle can still be relegated, don't think you are safe yet Ale
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Kimbo

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:52 pm

L r d wrote:Kevil Keegan has gone from 100/1 to 7/1 I hope he takes over cause Newcastle can still be relegated, don't think you are safe yet Ale
No chance of that happening. The guy doesn't even follow football anymore, all he wants to do is coach kids. He's finished with managment.

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Dwarf on Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:53 pm

Don Fabio wrote:
The same Harry Redknapp who blooded the likes of Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Rio Ferdinand, Jermain Defoe at West Ham,

the same guy who got West Ham promoted from the old first division and kept them in the premiership,

the same Redknapp who did the same with Portsmouth,

depends which way you look at it.

He's been a good manager in my opinion, and crucially, his teams have always played good football, on the floor, passing. He's never been afraid to risk playing flair players either, and seems to have worked well with foreign players in the latter stage of his career.

No reason why Redknapp couldnt do the job; took Portsmouth from relegation candidates when Perrin left, kept them up in the same season, and now a top 8-10 fixture

Sam can't play great purist football nor is he a great developer of talent. The rest you can apply to Sam to a similar extent, even if they aren't directly comparable. He may well be better, but the improvement you'd have got from appointing Harry over Sam would have been minimal at best on the results side.
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Puro

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Puro on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:05 pm

Jol to be named Newcastle coach. Great decision by Ashley! Can't wait for the Newcastle-Tottenham rivalry to further erupt. There's nothing like good competition. cheers
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Kimbo

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:09 pm

Puro wrote:Jol to be named Newcastle coach. Great decision by Ashley! Can't wait for the Newcastle-Tottenham rivalry to further erupt. There's nothing like good competition. cheers
Don't tell me, your friends in Miami told you that. Rolling Eyes Just like when they told you who the next Chelsea manager would be. Laughing
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Roger Hunt

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Roger Hunt on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:12 pm

Merry Krimbo wrote: The fact is that none of these British managers have achieved anything other than midtable, and they get far too much credit for it. Going foreign isn't guaranteed to work, but there are more talented managers out there with better credentials. Plus they are less likely to have preconcieved ideas about the players, i don't want to see a good ol' british manager come here and favour the english players, we've seen that before.

Well, except that Moyes has managed a 4th place finish and Redknapp a 5th place - both of which are as good as any continental manager outside the big 4 has achieved, and probably with less money to spend.

Jol has been a little bit more successful than Allardyce - but that's it.

This is what I mean about unrealistic expectations Kimbo. You are IMO going to take have to a chance on an unproven manager (i.e. someone who's not managed a CL club) which may work out but probably won't - because you won't attract an Eriksson, a Capello or even a Houllier.

And whether that unproven manager is British or not is pretty irrelevant.
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Puro

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Puro on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:15 pm

Merry Krimbo wrote:
Puro wrote:Jol to be named Newcastle coach. Great decision by Ashley! Can't wait for the Newcastle-Tottenham rivalry to further erupt. There's nothing like good competition. cheers
Don't tell me, your friends in Miami told you that. Rolling Eyes Just like when they told you who the next Chelsea manager would be. Laughing

They said Mourinho was gonna be sacked. Get ready for Jol. He may take you to the Promised Land. Ain't that right Ricardo! <Ale>
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Kimbo

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:21 pm

Roger Hunt wrote:
Merry Krimbo wrote: The fact is that none of these British managers have achieved anything other than midtable, and they get far too much credit for it. Going foreign isn't guaranteed to work, but there are more talented managers out there with better credentials. Plus they are less likely to have preconcieved ideas about the players, i don't want to see a good ol' british manager come here and favour the english players, we've seen that before.

Well, except that Moyes has managed a 4th place finish and Redknapp a 5th place - both of which are as good as any continental manager outside the big 4 has achieved, and probably with less money to spend.

Jol has been a little bit more successful than Allardyce - but that's it.

This is what I mean about unrealistic expectations Kimbo. You are IMO going to take have to a chance on an unproven manager (i.e. someone who's not managed a CL club) which may work out but probably won't - because you won't attract an Eriksson, a Capello or even a Houllier.

And whether that unproven manager is British or not is pretty irrelevant.
You're right, whether they're british or not is irrelevant. What is relevant though is that i rate Jol alot higher than i do Moyes and Redknapp, i don't rate their football and i'm not impressed(Moyes especially) with the success they've apparently achieved in the years they've been there. IMO managers like Moyes and Redknapp are midtable guys, they're people that come in and get you playing gritty football but you will never break the top 4 or challenge for honours, which should be the ultimate aim. Jol IMO was alot more successful than Allardyce, he finished 5th twice and did it with good football, and i hate to say it but he did it with a club quite similar to Newcastle(mini Newcastle some may call them).

I don't see why we couldn't get Houllier by the way, he was reported to be interested back when Roeder left.
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theflyingfrenchman

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by theflyingfrenchman on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:22 pm

Allardyce 's teams need time to gel -he took two seasons with us to get us stable, then moved on and took us to Top 8 material. Newcastle will rue this.
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Roger Hunt

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Roger Hunt on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:23 pm

It's a shame you signed Megson or you could have had Sam back.

FeelingTheBlues

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by FeelingTheBlues on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:31 pm

Puro wrote:
Dwarf wrote:
The same Harry Redknapp that managed to sink Southampton? The same Harry Redknapp that managed to lead West Ham in a weaker league to a magnificent 5th place once? The same Harry Redknapp that scored 5 points in his first 13 games for Portsmouth?

There are overrated players, why not overrated coaches? <Ale>

I would trust my team in Harry's hands anyday over Fat Sam. I used to not rate Redknapp in the past, but he's shown he can coach. He also took Fat Sam behind the shed at St James. I understand Harry is not everyone's first choice, but I think the man can coach. Obiously he's not among the elite, but he's a notch below them, and two notches above Fat Sam. <Ale>

Forget that,he's a 10 times better coach than fat sam.
Really dosen't get the credit deserves Rolling Eyes
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robert

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by robert on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:37 pm

I am all for giving coaches time provided they show progress!

Is signing a failed midfield experiment in Alan Smith progress. What about piting Nzogbia at left back, benching Martins, I mean the list goes on and on when it comes to his mistakes. Not to mention these were mostly his players.

He can't even fall back on the excuse that he inherited this team, a sizable cunk of that is his.
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DD

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by DD on Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:55 pm

Roger Hunt wrote:It's a shame you signed Megson or you could have had Sam back.
Hmmm... after the way he left them? Neutral
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theflyingfrenchman

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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by theflyingfrenchman on Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:06 pm

Roger Hunt wrote:It's a shame you signed Megson or you could have had Sam back.

Yes, that would have been great. Don't know if he'd want to come back though.
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Re: When will Newcastle learn ?

Post by Luis on Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:24 pm

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