COPA LIBERTADORES!

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Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:16 pm

I don't think that you were "Newcastle", Todo. You had a lot of important trophies even before winning Libertadores. That's different from being 42 without winning a major trophy. We had in common the fact that our jealous rivals joked about our lack of success at international level and were jealous because we always had a fanatic and loyal fanbase while they always had a shit attendance average and a quiet crowd.

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:29 pm

Puro wrote:Sheva, IF you are the champs tonight, then you have beaten the corrupt fucko Nicolás Leoz who was forced to resign - his utter corruption caught up to him and he was defenseless.

However, his parting shot was having a Paraguayan team or an Argie team winning the CL, you do know that his mate is Grondona. The new CONMEBOL pres Figueiredo is simply his puppet.

Do you remember when Wilmar Roldán was selected the 'ref' in that crucial Corinthians vs. Boca deciding game? The red flags of alarm went up, Corinthians were highly suspicious of the corrupt Colombian 'ref' and CONMEBOL heeded their call and gave them Amarilla.lol! Arguably the most corrupt 'ref' in Leoz's regime. Remember this night to forget? Two legitimate goals disallowed and TWO stone wall penalties not given to Corinthians.



Now, Leoz-Figueiredo have selected Wilmar Roldán again and Atlético haven't complained after we all saw what Corinthians got!lol! 

Atlético are taking their chances with Roldán but the Colombian just like Amarilla is there to make sure the Brasil team do not win. TFS!

IF you win tonight, you will have beaten corrupt Leoz, the Argie corrupt Grondona and the corrupt CONMEBOL! I KNOW Leoz and Grondona since back in the days when they back stabbed Inca Warrior Teófilo Salinas to usurp CONMEBOL. Oh that's how Leoz, Grondona, and Figueiredo got in, through deception, lies, chicanery and back stabbing. TFS!

Good luck tonight!<Ale> 


Yesterday we were robbed once again. The ref didn't give a clear penalty after we scored the second. Conmebol did everything this year to prevent a brazilian club from winning the Copa Libertadores. Next year it will be even worse.

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:32 pm

Antarion wrote:Panama at the world cup would be great.

Oh and congrats Sheva and all Mineiro supporters. Great to turn around games like this. <Ale> 

Now we're going after you. Very Happy 

You're much better than us, but we still have a chance.

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:37 pm

Romford Pele wrote:Is Bernard to Arsenal a done deal? Everyone is saying it will happen after the final tonight?

Bernard agent said that yesterday he played his last match for Atlético.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:49 pm

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:I don't think that you were "Newcastle", Todo. You had a lot of important trophies even before winning Libertadores. That's different from being 42 without winning a major trophy. We had in common the fact that our jealous rivals joked about our lack of success at international level and were jealous because we always had a fanatic and loyal fanbase while they always had a shit attendance average and a quiet crowd.

Not before 1990.

We were a Newcastle. In the 90s we became an Arsenal, big at national level but no CL/Libertadores. Now we may be a kind of Inter Milan, I guess...
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Puro

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Puro on Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:36 pm

Fey wrote:So basically Newcastle is the only Newcastle left in the world? Anyway grats Sheva I remember our comeback in 1999 against the Germans from Munich. It was fantastic.

Tina Fey,

If we all agree that twenty years is the amount of time for a so called 'big club' to be able to win at least either a domestic league title or be the finalist of a major international trophy -Copa Libertadores / Champions League- before becoming a 'Newcastle', then Botafogo is awfully close.

Moreover, I'm convinced they're very aware of Puro's ultimate gauge for determining the 'Newcastle' for they're going all out to win the Brasileirão this year.

PSG also knew they were about to become a 'Newcastle' but they were able to fend off the ridicule by winning their league in the nick of time. It had been nearly twenty years. Almost!Biggrin <Ale> 
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Puro

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Puro on Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:00 pm

And if a historic club don't win a domestic league title or reach the Final in Copa Libertadores or the Champions League in thirty years, do people consider such historic and illustrious club still a 'big club'?

For me personally, historic teams like Aston Villa and Tottenham -teams who have won fuck all in 30 years and NO that 'in case shite happens' cup doesn't count, Wigan and Portsmouth win that crap!- are no longer 'big clubs' no matter how much money they have or whatever. I don't give a fuck! If they don't win anything in 30 years they're 'also rans'. TFS!
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debaser

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by debaser on Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:11 pm

forget about not winning anything for 30 years, what about not qualifying for 30 years - how would you describe a country like that, Puro? not even close enough to be also-rans ffs! Biggrin
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Kimbo

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:15 pm

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Isco Benny

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:44 pm

Puro wrote:And if a historic club don't win a domestic league title or reach the Final in Copa Libertadores or the Champions League in thirty years, do people consider such historic and illustrious club still a 'big club'?

For me personally, historic teams like Aston Villa and Tottenham -teams who have won fuck all in 30 years and NO that 'in case shite happens' cup doesn't count, Wigan and Portsmouth win that crap!- are no longer 'big clubs' no matter how much money they have or whatever. I don't give a fuck! If they don't win anything in 30 years they're 'also rans'. TFS!

CONGRATS TODO! Ale


Puro,

How exactly are a team like Spurs or Villa supposed to win THE ONLY COMPETITIONS THAT MATTER TM (League/CL) when teams like Chelsea, Man City, PSG, the Russian Clubs, Madrid, Barcelona, Man United, even fucking Liverpool are outspending them 6 to 1 each year? The gap between the haves and have nots in European football is much wider than it is South America. So claiming the other cups don't matter is garbage - we'll take what we can thank you, including silverware you claim is worthless, so we've won a trophy in ever single decade since our inception, only Man United have done the same from England. So up yours, who the fuck are you to decide anyway? Laughing Ale



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mongrel hawk

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:03 pm

Puro wrote:And if a historic club don't win a domestic league title or reach the Final in Copa Libertadores or the Champions League in thirty years, do people consider such historic and illustrious club still a 'big club'?

For me personally, historic teams like Aston Villa and Tottenham -teams who have won fuck all in 30 years and NO that 'in case shite happens' cup doesn't count, Wigan and Portsmouth win that crap!- are no longer 'big clubs' no matter how much money they have or whatever. I don't give a fuck! If they don't win anything in 30 years they're 'also rans'. TFS!

Atlético had never reached a Libertadores final and their last important national title was in 1971 (the first official edition of the Brazilian league).

But they were big in my book before winning Libertadores because of their big, loyal fanbase in one of the most important Brazilian cities. Even without important titles for a long time, their media appeal was still great and their games had still better attendances than their city rivals Cruzeiro, a club that won many more titles.

The same can be said about Corinthians (loyal, supporting fans but few titles with a huge media appeal) versus São Paulo (crappy, glory hunter fans, lots of titles and not so big an appeal in the media).

But Corinthians changed. We began to win important titles in the 90s, and I feel Atlético is going in the same route.

I think to measure the greatness of a club you should take into account titles + srtructure + media appeal + fanbase (quality and quantity).

If you take only titles into account, you may as well say Nottingham Forest is bigger than Arsenal and Independiente is bigger than São Paulo. It makes no sense.


Last edited by Mongrel Hawk on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mongrel hawk

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:04 pm

Isco Benny wrote:
Puro wrote:And if a historic club don't win a domestic league title or reach the Final in Copa Libertadores or the Champions League in thirty years, do people consider such historic and illustrious club still a 'big club'?

For me personally, historic teams like Aston Villa and Tottenham -teams who have won fuck all in 30 years and NO that 'in case shite happens' cup doesn't count, Wigan and Portsmouth win that crap!- are no longer 'big clubs' no matter how much money they have or whatever. I don't give a fuck! If they don't win anything in 30 years they're 'also rans'. TFS!

CONGRATS TODO! Ale


Puro,

How exactly are a team like Spurs or Villa supposed to win THE ONLY COMPETITIONS THAT MATTER TM (League/CL) when teams like Chelsea, Man City, PSG, the Russian Clubs, Madrid, Barcelona, Man United, even fucking Liverpool are outspending them 6 to 1 each year? The gap between the haves and have nots in European football is much wider than it is South America. So claiming the other cups don't matter is garbage - we'll take what we can thank you, including silverware you claim is worthless, so we've won a trophy in ever single decade since our inception, only Man United have done the same from England. So up yours, who the fuck are you to decide anyway? LaughingAle




It should be congrats Sheva! We're not the same person.
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Isco Benny

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:05 pm

Yep sorry, I'm not racist really, suggesting you all look the same Wink

CONGRATS SHEVA!

And congrats Todo for when WE win the title!

#Paulinhobringsourclubstogether
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mongrel hawk

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:43 pm

Isco Benny wrote:Yep sorry, I'm not racist really, suggesting you all look the same Wink

CONGRATS SHEVA!

And congrats Todo for when WE win the title!

#Paulinhobringsourclubstogether

Haha. I guess Brazilians are the people who are more different between themselves in the world.

Keep me informed about Paulinho, please!

No time to follow Euro football lately. I've only been watching Corinthians games.
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ERIK LAMELA

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by ERIK LAMELA on Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:07 pm


Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:24 pm

Good article about Atlético and Ronaldinho in Sports Illustrated:



Atlético Mineiro and reborn Ronaldinho attain Libertadores glory

By James Young, Special to SI.com


BELO HORIZONTE -- There might not be second acts in American lives, as F. Scott Fitzgerald once wrote, but it seems that there are in Brazilian football. At least in the case of Ronaldinho Gaúcho and Atlético Mineiro, the new champions of South America, after an exhilarating, at times improbable, Copa Libertadores penalty shootout victory over Paraguay´s Olimpia, at a tempestuous Mineirão stadium in Belo Horizonte last night.

Like Ronaldinho himself, Atlético had been written off more than a few times on its way to yesterday's win. First in the quarterfinal against Mexico's Tijuana, when with the game tied, goalkeeper Victor saved a last second penalty to send Galo into the next round on the away goal rule. After that was the semifinal victory over Newell´s Old Boys of Argentina, when Atlético seemed dead and buried after a 2-0 away leg defeat, only for a late, late equalizer in Belo Horizonte to send the game to a penalty shootout, where Victor again starred, saving Maxi Rodriguez's kick to put the team in the final.

And then came last night. As 60,000 roared themselves hoarse in the stands, for long periods Atlético and Ronaldinho struggled to break down a tough, well-organized Olimpia side, defending a 2-0 lead from the first leg. But Seleção star Jô hammered in the first goal just after halftime, following a rare slip from Olimpia's Pittoni, and then, with time ticking away, giant defender Leonardo Silva looped a header over everybody and into the goal. The noise was enough to make the very foundations of the Mineirão quake.

That brought up yet another penalty shootout, and once again unassuming goalkeeper ("São", or "Saint") Victor was decisive, saving from Miranda, then watching Gíminez´s kick crash against the crossbar. The Atlético players cavorted wildly on the pitch, and in the seats the fans sank to their knees, drained and disbelieving. It is Atlético´s first ever Libertadores title, and the club´s first major honor since 1971. Dawn may have broken over Belo Horizonte now, but the celebrations in the streets will go on for a few hours yet.

There have been many heroes during the campaign, from the attacking élan of wide players Diego Tardelli and Bernard in the group phase to the miracles performed by Victor in the later stages. However, no one better represents the transformation of this proud, but until recently benighted, club from perennial loser into champions of South America, than Ronaldinho.

There were many who scoffed when Atlético´s firebrand president Alexandre Kalil took a chance on the player back in June 2012. The former (twice) World Footballer of the Year had seemed to be coming to the close of his career as he struggled through injury and apathy at the end of his spell with A.C. Milan, before a triumphant homecoming to Brazil in 2011 with Flamengo quickly turned sour.

Over 25,000 Flamengo fans turned out to see his official unveiling, but after a bright enough start, things did not go as planned in Rio. Stories emerged that the club was struggling to pay Ronaldino's wages, and, unsurprisingly, his on-field interest levels, and performances, tailed off. At the beginning of 2012 video footage appeared showing the player following a female "friend" into a room at a Flamengo pre-Libertadores training camp hotel, and not long after, the player announced that he was canceling his contract and suing the club for unpaid wages.

In retaliation, Flamengo, then in total meltdown under calamitous president Patricia Amorim, claimed it possessed a urine sample showing that Ronaldinho had turned up drunk for training (the club subsequently mysteriously "lost" said urine sample, then admitted it had never existed in the first place). Nonetheless, it was another unedifying episode in the Ronaldinho soap opera. Sullied but unbowed, he was a free agent, but who would want him?

Step forward Alexandre Kalil and Atlético. In some ways, it is the perfect match, though Galo´s CV is arguably less glittering than that of its most famous current player. Still, Atlético has provided the ideal stage for Ronaldinho. It is a big club in the Brazilian football sense of the word, where being big can often mean simply having an awful lot of supporters but not much in the way of infrastructure, sustained success, or financial well-being. For Atlético real success has proved elusive for many years, with the club's only national championship win coming in 1971, and the pain of relegation to Serie B suffered in 2005. In short, it was the kind of club desperately in need of a hero to ease the pain of its millions of long-suffering supporters.

It has worked better than anyone could have hoped. Reinvented as a craftier, if slower midfield playmaker, Ronaldinho has added a few meters to his personal highlight reel over the last fourteen months, displaying a kaleidoscopic range of feints and shimmies, creating goal after goal for the likes of the lightning fast Bernard and the powerful Jô with a dizzying range of passing, and carrying Atlético to the brink of the Brasileirão title last year.

Off the field too the player seems happier. Away from the distractions of Rio, Ronaldinho has found a home in more stolid Belo Horizonte, being granted "honorary citizenship" of the city, and reveling in the adoration of Atlético's hordes of passionate fans, even crying a little during one game when the club's hardcore "Galoucura" torcida organizada unfurled a giant "get well soon Dona Miguelina" flag for his sick mother. "These fans make me feel complete," he said later, "I'll never forget this."

Perhaps too, despite the missteps, there is something in Ronaldinho´s eternal roguishness to which football fans in general, and Brazilian soccer fans specifically, can relate. After all, the history of the game here is steeped in the cult of the brilliant individual, from Garrincha to Romário, rather than in rigid organization and hard labor. In recent years, as the Brazilian game has concentrated more on athleticism than the maverick´s sleight of foot, Ronaldinho can often feel like a (welcome) throwback. And even as gifted, but squeaky-clean stars such as Neymar and Oscar have emerged, his appeal remains undiminished.

But Kalil had more than just a mutual appreciation society in mind when he signed Ronaldinho. He knew that a star of his stature, however tarnished, would draw the TV cameras to Belo Horizonte and put Atlético back on the map, in a country dominated by the hegemony of the big Rio and São Paulo clubs. "We'll show them that there's a proper football club on this side of the mountains too," he said last year.

With last night's victory, Atlético has done that and more besides. While Ronaldinho faded a little against the sturdy, abrasive opposition of the Libertadores later stages, suggesting that the twilight of this soccer god may not be too far off, at least for the moment, he and Atlético are kings once again. "Everybody said I was finished," he said after last night's game. "Let´s see what they´ve got to say now."



Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:26 pm

Impressive stat: nine different brazilian clubs won Copa Libertadores over the past 18 years . It doesn't get much more competitive than that.
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Fey

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Fey on Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:32 pm

How much is a CL worth these days when you look at the fact there has been a Brazilian team in the final for a decade now? Is the gap growing between Brazil and the rest?

Also, I quite liked the final, however, to let a team play in black and white vs another team in black and white is just a bit amateur.

Also how important are state cups? I assume winning the Sao Paulo one has more prestige to it, then winning the Amazones one.
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debaser

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by debaser on Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:05 pm

so is there any chance Ronaldinho will play in the world cup next year?
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EMP

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:32 pm

debaser wrote:so is there any chance Ronaldinho will play in the world cup next year?

He was dropped by Scolari for the Confederations' Cup by Scolari allegedly for disciplinary reasons. He has a chance, but Scolari seems to be building for future as well. Scolari doesn't shy away from doing things his way, so I think Dinho will need an injury or two or catastrophic loss of form by someone in Cup-winning squad to get in and prove his party-boy image is over to impress Scolari again. Scolari resisted Romario's wishes to play and media campaign previously, so he won't shy away from keeping anyone out., including Dinho.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by mongrel hawk on Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:08 am

Fey wrote:How much is a CL worth these days when you look at the fact there has been a Brazilian team in the final for a decade now? Is the gap growing between Brazil and the rest?

Also, I quite liked the final, however, to let a team play in black and white vs another team in black and white is just a bit amateur.

Also how important are state cups? I assume winning the Sao Paulo one has more prestige to it, then winning the Amazones one.

Libertadores is still a very important title, more than the national league, no doubt about it. And remember that Argentina won more CLs than Brazil.


Yes, the gap is growing, reflecting Brazil's economic progress in the last decades. If companies in Brazil are doing well, clubs may follow, after all they are companies. However, the money gap is much larger than the technical gap. Money figures of Argentine clubs are ridiculous compared to Brazilian clubs budgets, but they are not ridiculous technically, not at all.

Conmebol is very amateur and corrupt, and some people in Brazil think this amateur side is charming (including supporters throwing things on the players on corner kick, police having to protect the player with shields, something that don't happen in Brazil, but in other South American countries is normal), others (most) think it's disgusting.

State cups were the most important football competitions in Brazil until the 60s. The first national competition began in 59 with Taça Brasil, a small cup between the champions of the most important states as a way of choosing a club to play Libertadores. These Taça Brasil titles, which Santos won five in a row when most of their players were Brazil national players (including Pelé), ended in the early 70s, when the national league began (the first was won by Atlético in 1971), but the tradition of the state cups made them as important as the national title and even than Libertadores: Corinthians played their B team in their first Libertadores (late 70s) to save the A team for São Paulo State Cup games (today happens the opposite).

It PARTIALLY explains why Argentine and Uruguayan clubs won many more Libertadores titles in the beginning than Brazilian clubs.

It also explains why the big rivalries in Brazil happen only between clubs from the same states.

And yes, some state cups hold a lot of prestige while others are not very important. There are almost 30 states in Brazil, and many of them, like those in the Amazon, have small populations and an almost amateur football with clubs which are known only locally, while the states with big populations and economic power have rich, professional clubs.

This could be a good ranking:

1. Rio and São Paulo States (4 big teams each: Corinthians, Palmeiras, São Paulo, Santos – Fla, Flu, Botafogo, Vasco)
2. Minas Gerais (Atlético, Cruzeiro), Rio Grande do Sul (Inter, Grêmio)
3. Paraná, Bahia, Pernambuco
4. Santa Catarina, Goiás, Ceará
5. I guess I could include all the others here, no one knows who won them outside those states









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mongrel hawk

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by mongrel hawk on Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:14 am

EMP wrote:
debaser wrote:so is there any chance Ronaldinho will play in the world cup next year?

He was dropped by Scolari for the Confederations' Cup by Scolari allegedly for disciplinary reasons. He has a chance, but Scolari seems to be building for future as well. Scolari doesn't shy away from doing things his way, so I think Dinho will need an injury or two or catastrophic loss of form by someone in Cup-winning squad to get in and prove his party-boy image is over to impress Scolari again. Scolari resisted Romario's wishes to play and media campaign previously, so he won't shy away from keeping anyone out., including Dinho.

You're right. I don't thnk he'll call Ronaldinho, and it has nothing to do with his football. Scolari is the kind of guy who'll choose a committed mediocre player over an uncommitted craque. He didn't take Romário in 2002, even under great pressure. People wanted Ronaldo and Romário at the same time, but he decided Romário wasn't good for the group and didn't take him.


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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:25 pm

Ronaldinho was the best player in Brazil until Confed Cup call up. Since then he took a significant dip in form. I don't think he will be called up for three reasons: he provides very little work rate, Brazil won Confed Cup without him and he still party almost every day. Big Phil thinks that he would be a bad influence to young players from the squad.

I would call him up in the Confed Cup, but I would play Oscar ahead of him because he doesn't help the midfield to press the opposing team to regain possession. Today I would call up Coutinho or William ahead of him.

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:29 pm

Fey wrote:How much is a CL worth these days when you look at the fact there has been a Brazilian team in the final for a decade now? Is the gap growing between Brazil and the rest?

Also, I quite liked the final, however, to let a team play in black and white vs another team in black and white is just a bit amateur.

Also how important are state cups? I assume winning the Sao Paulo one has more prestige to it, then winning the Amazones one.

Well, our away jersey is white and their away jersey is black, it would be even worse...

State cups have little importance today. In the past they were prestigious trophies.

The gap between Brazil and the rest is getting bigger and bigger. I dare say that economically the difference between Brazilian top clubs and Argentinian top clubs are bigger than between European top clubs and Brazilian top clubs.

Conmebol is trying to prevent brazilians from winning again, now we have to beat the opposition and the ref.
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Puro

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Puro on Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:42 pm

Perhaps Scolari will call up Ronaldinho in the end. Brasil NEED a World Cup winner to calm the nerves in the dressing room and Ronaldinho can do that - he is also a great leader.

So it's either Ronaldinho or Kaká -the last Brasileiros who got close to a WC trophy- that Scolari must call up.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by mongrel hawk on Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:24 pm

Puro wrote:Perhaps Scolari will call up Ronaldinho in the end. Brasil NEED a World Cup winner to calm the nerves in the dressing room and Ronaldinho can do that - he is also a great leader.

So it's either Ronaldinho or Kaká -the last Brasileiros who got close to a WC trophy- that Scolari must call up.

Ronaldinho won a WC as a starter.
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Puro

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Puro on Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:53 pm

Todo, did you see Jadson going out of his way to catch Guerrero to ask him for his shirt as soon as he heard the sound of the halftime whistle? Of course Guerrero, humble guy that he is just gave him his shirt "oh yeah here you go".

Jadson would've been ran out of town if he had done that in England. TFS!

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:07 pm

Puro wrote:Todo, did you see Jadson going out of his way to catch Guerrero to ask him for his shirt as soon as he heard the sound of the halftime whistle? Of course Guerrero, humble guy that he is just gave him his shirt "oh yeah here you go".

Jadson would've been ran out of town if he had done that in England. TFS!

André Santos springs to my mind. Very Happy 

Formerly known as sheva7

Number of posts : 1898
Age : 34
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:39 am

Bernard have offers from Porto and Shakhtar. Maybe he will play his last match on Wednesday.
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Puro

Number of posts : 10679
Registration date : 2006-09-12

Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

Post by Puro on Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:59 pm

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:Bernard have offers from Porto and Shakhtar. Maybe he will play his last match on Wednesday.

His best move is to stay until January at the very least.

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Re: COPA LIBERTADORES!

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