Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

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fcb

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by fcb on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:11 pm

The "finals" stat can be spun too - Ferguson has won 2 in 2, Benitez has won just 1 out of 3. I could argue that a manager is shit if he can't win finals - no point getting there then, is there?
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:13 pm

Bentiez won 2 out of 3 no?
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fcb

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by fcb on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Lost one with Valencia didn't he...and then one with Liverpool to Milan.
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Murray

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Murray on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Fergie won 4 out of 4 euro finals, and in his first 4 years at Man U, English clubs were banned from Europe.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:15 pm

kas wrote:Lost one with Valencia didn't he...and then one with Liverpool to Milan.

I thought he beat Marseille in the UEFA cup final.
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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by SuperMario on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:17 pm

Nope I don't think they deserve anymore credit. Stupid to throw good money at bad money. 60 billion loss = hopeless
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fcb

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by fcb on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:17 pm

Ahh, I'm wrong here...Benitez took over the year after Valencia lost 3-0 to Madrid.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:19 pm

You can't deny what Ferguson achieved at Aberdeen, at a time when the Scottish league had way more credibility then it did back then.

Fergie's 1st 5-6 seasons at United are pretty similar to what Rafa's doing now come to think about it. Yes he's underachieved in Europe but 1-2 more league titles and 1-2 more CL's and he'll go down as the greatest British manager IMO.

Still a bullying corrupt c**t though.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:19 pm

kas wrote:Ahh, I'm wrong here...Benitez took over the year after Valencia lost 3-0 to Madrid.

* year after they lost on penalties to Bayern Razz
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COTR

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by COTR on Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:23 pm

Glennathinaikos wrote:
Parks lives wrote:


Do Liverpool fans deny Rafa is a pretty ordinary manager because it would mean admitting the CL win was a bit of a fluke?

Liverpool fans don't whine about Rafa not getting the credit he deserves.

The CL win was not more of a fluke that the times that Fergle won it. And it took Rafa a lot less than 13 years.

I think Spanky missed that thread that ranked Liverpool 1st over a 5 year period

Never mind, let the idiot continue. I prefer my Man United fans to be stupid and Batman and Spank fill that criteria nicely
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Batman

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Batman on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:07 pm

St. Mirren (19741978)

* Scottish First Division: 1976-77

Aberdeen (19781986)

* Scottish Premier Division: 1979-80, 1983-84, 1984-85
* Scottish Cup: 198182, 198283, 198384, 198586
* Scottish League Cup: 1985-86
* UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 198283
* UEFA Super Cup: 1983

Manchester United (1986present)

* Premier League: 199293, 199394, 199596, 199697, 199899, 19992000, 200001, 200203, 200607, 200708
* FA Cup: 198990, 199394, 199596, 199899, 200304
* League Cup: 199192, 200506, 2008-09
* FA Charity/Community Shield: 1990*, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008
* UEFA Champions League: 199899, 200708
* UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 199091
* UEFA Super Cup: 1991
* Intercontinental Cup: 1999
* FIFA Club World Cup: 2008
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:12 pm

Thank you for copying and pasting from wikipedia.

L r dd

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by L r dd on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:18 pm

I don't get how half of the names on here can even compare to him. Capello is a winner so definitely he can somewhere if he won the world cup with England i'd say then he can be viewed as one of the best maybe ever also.

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Guest

Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:31 pm

how can you compare a manager who has been been coaching in the top flight for 33 years.

To rafa who has only been coaching at the top for 9.


lippi and Hitzfeld are the only men you can compare with him, if nothing else for the sheer amount of time they have been managers, if one wants to get into comparisons.
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Batman

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Batman on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:31 pm

Batman wrote:St. Mirren (19741978)

* Scottish First Division: 1976-77

Aberdeen (19781986)

* Scottish Premier Division: 1979-80, 1983-84, 1984-85
* Scottish Cup: 198182, 198283, 198384, 198586
* Scottish League Cup: 1985-86
* UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 198283
* UEFA Super Cup: 1983

Manchester United (1986present)

* Premier League: 199293, 199394, 199596, 199697, 199899, 19992000, 200001, 200203, 200607, 200708
* FA Cup: 198990, 199394, 199596, 199899, 200304
* League Cup: 199192, 200506, 2008-09
* FA Charity/Community Shield: 1990*, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008
* UEFA Champions League: 199899, 200708
* UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 199091
* UEFA Super Cup: 1991
* Intercontinental Cup: 1999
* FIFA Club World Cup: 2008



Milan

* Serie A: 1991-92, 1992-93, 1993-94, 1995-96
* UEFA Champions League: 1993-94
* European Super Cup: 1994
* Supercoppa Italiana: 1992, 1993, 1994

Roma

* Serie A: 2000-01
* Supercoppa Italiana: 2001

Real Madrid

* La Liga: 1996-97, 2006-07

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The amazing thing about SAF is that in 1983 he beats Real Madrid to win the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup. 25 years later he is still going strong and lifting the UEFA Champions League.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by christmasborocooper on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:33 pm

Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Cirque du Barcelona wrote:The first manager since Ernst Happel to win CL with 2 different clubs + 7 titles in Germany (with 2 clubs) is not better?

Why does it matter that he did it with two clubs?

He's won the CL the same amount of times as Fergie..and he's won the German league less times than Fergie has won the EPL..

It shows that he can achieve the success under different circumstances with different players. What's more impressive is that one of those clubs was Dortmund.

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

The fact Fergie hasnt left Man Utd to try and win the CL with another club shouldnt be held against him IMO. He's had to rebuild the squad a few times.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:34 pm

Capello also won at Juve

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by L r dd on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:37 pm

When Kleberson joined he was the first Brazillian to play for Man Utd. And now Ronaldo the first Portuguese i believe also. If you look at the 96 team i think really only Giggs was someone who would run at players with skill. So to say different players is silly. It's completely different players not just in terms of names. Nani ronaldo all the brazllians were totally unheard of for us 10 years or so ago.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:38 pm

borocooper wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Cirque du Barcelona wrote:The first manager since Ernst Happel to win CL with 2 different clubs + 7 titles in Germany (with 2 clubs) is not better?

Why does it matter that he did it with two clubs?

He's won the CL the same amount of times as Fergie..and he's won the German league less times than Fergie has won the EPL..

It shows that he can achieve the success under different circumstances with different players. What's more impressive is that one of those clubs was Dortmund.

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

The fact Fergie hasnt left Man Utd to try and win the CL with another club shouldnt be held against him IMO. He's had to rebuild the squad a few times.

Totally agree. But i still think Hitzfeld winning the CL with Dortmund is more impressive than winning it with Man Utd (after numerous tries).

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Glenarch of the Glen on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:38 pm

borocooper wrote:

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

.

don't confuse the Scottish First Division of the 70's and 80's with the SPL.

Aberdeen, Dundee and Hearts were all competitive before the SPL was formed.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by christmasborocooper on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:45 pm

Glennathinaikos wrote:
borocooper wrote:

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

.

don't confuse the Scottish First Division of the 70's and 80's with the SPL.

Aberdeen, Dundee and Hearts were all competitive before the SPL was formed.

Okay, well as I dont know the stats how many of them had won it around the time Fergie won it with Aberdeen?
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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Batman on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:46 pm

Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Cirque du Barcelona wrote:The first manager since Ernst Happel to win CL with 2 different clubs + 7 titles in Germany (with 2 clubs) is not better?

Why does it matter that he did it with two clubs?

He's won the CL the same amount of times as Fergie..and he's won the German league less times than Fergie has won the EPL..

It shows that he can achieve the success under different circumstances with different players. What's more impressive is that one of those clubs was Dortmund.

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

The fact Fergie hasnt left Man Utd to try and win the CL with another club shouldnt be held against him IMO. He's had to rebuild the squad a few times.

Totally agree. But i still think Hitzfeld winning the CL with Dortmund is more impressive than winning it with Man Utd (after numerous tries).

Winning the CL is not easy, there are a lot of good teams in Europe.

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Glenarch of the Glen on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:48 pm

borocooper wrote:
Glennathinaikos wrote:
borocooper wrote:

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

.

don't confuse the Scottish First Division of the 70's and 80's with the SPL.

Aberdeen, Dundee and Hearts were all competitive before the SPL was formed.

Okay, well as I dont know the stats how many of them had won it around the time Fergie won it with Aberdeen?

look it up for yourself if you're that interested!

all I know is that Fergle took over United after they finished 2nd and guided them to 11th. You wouldn't get away with that these days.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:51 pm

Batman wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Cirque du Barcelona wrote:The first manager since Ernst Happel to win CL with 2 different clubs + 7 titles in Germany (with 2 clubs) is not better?

Why does it matter that he did it with two clubs?

He's won the CL the same amount of times as Fergie..and he's won the German league less times than Fergie has won the EPL..

It shows that he can achieve the success under different circumstances with different players. What's more impressive is that one of those clubs was Dortmund.

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

The fact Fergie hasnt left Man Utd to try and win the CL with another club shouldnt be held against him IMO. He's had to rebuild the squad a few times.

Totally agree. But i still think Hitzfeld winning the CL with Dortmund is more impressive than winning it with Man Utd (after numerous tries).

Winning the CL is not easy, there are a lot of good teams in Europe.

even in it's old format he struggled at first.
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Murray

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Murray on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:52 pm

Club No. of league titles
Rangers 51
Celtic 42
Aberdeen 4 ( 3 by Fergie, the other was in 1955)
Heart of Midlothian 4
Hibernian 4
Dumbarton 2
Motherwell 1
Dundee 1
Kilmarnock 1
Dundee United 1
Third Lanark 1
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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Jaime on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:53 pm

Between 1975 and 1998 Dundee United won one league title, Aberdeen three, and the rest were Celtic or Rangers.

But again, why is this thread in the European Leagues board?

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by L r dd on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:54 pm

Il Tritolone wrote:
Batman wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Cirque du Barcelona wrote:The first manager since Ernst Happel to win CL with 2 different clubs + 7 titles in Germany (with 2 clubs) is not better?

Why does it matter that he did it with two clubs?

He's won the CL the same amount of times as Fergie..and he's won the German league less times than Fergie has won the EPL..

It shows that he can achieve the success under different circumstances with different players. What's more impressive is that one of those clubs was Dortmund.

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

The fact Fergie hasnt left Man Utd to try and win the CL with another club shouldnt be held against him IMO. He's had to rebuild the squad a few times.

Totally agree. But i still think Hitzfeld winning the CL with Dortmund is more impressive than winning it with Man Utd (after numerous tries).

Winning the CL is not easy, there are a lot of good teams in Europe.

even in it's old format he struggled at first.

The 3 foreigner rule made it more difficult for Man Utd. It's been over he should have a better record in the cl for the teams he's had for sure. But there are some valid reasons as to why in certain times it didn't work out.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by christmasborocooper on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:56 pm

Jaime wrote:Between 1975 and 1998 Dundee United won one league title, Aberdeen three, and the rest were Celtic or Rangers.

But again, why is this thread in the European Leagues board?

Sounds to me like he did pretty well then..stop your lies Glenn Hysen.
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Batman

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by Batman on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:58 pm

L-r d wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
Batman wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Cirque du Barcelona wrote:The first manager since Ernst Happel to win CL with 2 different clubs + 7 titles in Germany (with 2 clubs) is not better?

Why does it matter that he did it with two clubs?

He's won the CL the same amount of times as Fergie..and he's won the German league less times than Fergie has won the EPL..

It shows that he can achieve the success under different circumstances with different players. What's more impressive is that one of those clubs was Dortmund.

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

The fact Fergie hasnt left Man Utd to try and win the CL with another club shouldnt be held against him IMO. He's had to rebuild the squad a few times.

Totally agree. But i still think Hitzfeld winning the CL with Dortmund is more impressive than winning it with Man Utd (after numerous tries).

Winning the CL is not easy, there are a lot of good teams in Europe.

even in it's old format he struggled at first.

The 3 foreigner rule made it more difficult for Man Utd. It's been over he should have a better record in the cl for the teams he's had for sure. But there are some valid reasons as to why in certain times it didn't work out.

plus back then all the best players wanted to play in Spain or Italy.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Do the Man Utd players and SAF deserve more credit?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:01 pm

L-r d wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
Batman wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Il Tritolone wrote:
borocooper wrote:
Cirque du Barcelona wrote:The first manager since Ernst Happel to win CL with 2 different clubs + 7 titles in Germany (with 2 clubs) is not better?

Why does it matter that he did it with two clubs?

He's won the CL the same amount of times as Fergie..and he's won the German league less times than Fergie has won the EPL..

It shows that he can achieve the success under different circumstances with different players. What's more impressive is that one of those clubs was Dortmund.

Fergie has achieved success at different clubs though. What he did with Aberdeen, winning a league that usually belongs to Celtic and Rangers is surely impressive?

The fact Fergie hasnt left Man Utd to try and win the CL with another club shouldnt be held against him IMO. He's had to rebuild the squad a few times.

Totally agree. But i still think Hitzfeld winning the CL with Dortmund is more impressive than winning it with Man Utd (after numerous tries).

Winning the CL is not easy, there are a lot of good teams in Europe.

even in it's old format he struggled at first.

The 3 foreigner rule made it more difficult for Man Utd. It's been over he should have a better record in the cl for the teams he's had for sure. But there are some valid reasons as to why in certain times it didn't work out.

Why? It was the same rule for everyone.

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