Apart from Giovanni van Bronckhorst, are the there any other players with South Moluccan origins that have played in the Eredivisie? If so who and for what clubs?

How many have played for the Netherlands? At what level? How many of them have full international caps?

Pffft, there must have been quite a lot in the Eredivisie.

Probably some more in Oranje too.

....but I really wouldn't know : I don't classify people in that way

Simon Tahamata (voetballer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Tahamata
Hell of a player/winger, great guy too.

Giovanni van Bronckhorst (voetballer)
Denny Landzaat (voetballer)

Sonny Silooy (voetballer)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Silooy
Jos Luhukay (voetballer en -trainer)
Bobby Petta (voetballer)
Bart Latuheru (voetballer)
Levi Risamasu (voetballer)
Ignacio Tuhuteru (voetballer)
Jordao Pattinama (voetballer)
Edinho Pattinama (voetballer)
Jeffrey Leiwakabessy (voetballer)
Justin Tahapary (voetballer)
Giorgianni Supusepa (voetballer)
Michael Timisela (voetballer)

What is the proportion of South Moluccans in the population of the Netherlands? Dothey have a tradition of playing football, or is that something they picked up in the Netherlands.

A 2005 estimate counted: 80.9% Dutch, 2.4% Indonesian (Indo-Dutch, South Moluccan), 2.4% German, 2.2% Turkish, 2.0% Surinamese, 1.9% Moroccan, 0.8% Antillean and Aruban, and 6.0% others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#Demographics

Jaime wrote:A 2005 estimate counted: 80.9% Dutch, 2.4% Indonesian (Indo-Dutch, South Moluccan), 2.4% German, 2.2% Turkish, 2.0% Surinamese, 1.9% Moroccan, 0.8% Antillean and Aruban, and 6.0% others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#Demographics

Well that's a pretty incredible stat there. The Netherlands seem to have produced several players with such origins from a pretty small talent pool. Do any other European countries have such a record of bringing through Asian-origin domestic talent to such a high level?

The majority of those 2.4% aren't Moluccan (only small islands, lots of people from other Islands too). 100,000 is a good estimate. A lot of the Moluccans who came were on the Dutch side when the Dutch fought other people from Indonesia. They were kind of our Gurkha's. When they came to Holland they picked up Dutch habits quickly (not throwing away their own culture) including football (playing & supporting).


Mind you the 'chief' of the Hell's Angels in Holland is a Moluccan bloke.

There's quite a story (and not a good one from either viewpoint) behind the Moluccans in Holland.

The Dutch government promised them that if they'd fight in the Dutch army (KNIL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_East_Indies_Army), Holland would actively support the cause of an independent Molucca.

Up to this day an independent Molucca is as likely as an independent Tibet...

The Moluccans believed that the Dutch reneged on the deal (I believe so too) and tried to force the Dutch government into action :

* taking a complete passenger train hostage in De Wijster

* taking a complete passenger train hostage in De Punt

* taking an elementary school hostage in Bovensmilde

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Dutch_train_hostage_crisis

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/23/newsid_2503000/2503933.stm

This whole story is not something either the Dutch or the Moluccans are proud of, so we all act as if nothing ever happened....

De Guzman wrote:The majority of those 2.4% aren't Moluccan (only small islands, lots of people from other Islands too). 100,000 is a good estimate. A lot of the Moluccans who came were on the Dutch side when the Dutch fought other people from Indonesia. They were kind of our Gurkha's. When they came to Holland they picked up Dutch habits quickly (not throwing away their own culture) including football (playing & supporting).


Mind you the 'chief' of the Hell's Angels in Holland is a Moluccan bloke.

Moluccans never integrated that well Guzzy, isn't it quite remarkable that the better minorities are integrated the less they are involved into football?

Compare Hindu Surinamese with Creole Surinamese; Turkish with Moroccans; Indoneasians with Moluccans.

Hindi Surinamese are hardly involved in football while they are the biggest group of Surinamers. They are socially better integrated than the Creole Surninamers who are widely involved in football.

The same counts for Turkish. They do much better on the social ladder than the Morroccans and this group is twice as big. On the other hand, there are hardly any Turkish pro's in the Netherlands while the Moroccans has a huge amount of talented footballers.

We can say the same for the difference between Indonesians and Moluccans. Indonesians are very well integrated and loads of them are mixed with Dutchies. Look at Den Haag, the indo-city, almost half of the city has somewhere Indonesian blood. Even during the colonist period it was "not done" to mix Indonesians with Dutchies but it happened quite often already in that time. Still, there are almost zero Indonesian footballers.

Football is the game of the poor. It was always like that and it's still like that.

Beg to differ on the Mollucans not being integrated that well. I know a lot of them, my sister is even married to one. They stick to their own culture too, which is fine. My uncle in OZ-land is still proud of his Dutch roots & Feyenoord too.

Basically they do both cultures Dutch & Moluccan.

De Guzman wrote:
Basically they do both cultures Dutch & Moluccan.

Yup (which in my opinion is the only and thus the best way to integrate)

fully integrate is fine too, don't have much problem with not integrating and causing no problems either (say the Chinese).

Maluku