A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

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EM Seleção e Selecção

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by EM Seleção e Selecção on Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:20 pm

MightyBarca wrote:
L r dd wrote:Not in my opinion. Ronaldo destroyed Arsenal last season semi final...rooney did it a few months ago in the league tonight messi did the same thing. What's the difference here? They all are similar quality. On the weekend we'll see who comes out on top Messi or Cristiano Ale



Did any of them score 4 goals against arsenal?? Face facts lerd messi is the best player in the world! And you didn't answer my question how many goals has Rooney scored against spanish teams?
LRD does not know greatness I am suprised he doesn't think Lennon/Nani are better players than Messi(yes from the same age group).
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Isco Benny

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:53 pm

EM La Liga wrote:
Robert F'gerald Earle MBE wrote:Ruud Gullit made a good point last night - For all Messi's incredible talent, he does benefit from having possibly the World's least wasteful midfielder playing next to him in Xavi. Even a player like Messi needs to be given the ball in the right areas to be effective.

We talk about Messi as the World's best player currently because of what he does for Barcelona, playing in probably the World's best team. Of course he's part of the reason that side is the World's best,

but the Messi who plays for Argentina for example would not be renowned as the World's best, because he doesn't have the luxury of playing with such fantastically talented team mates.

The clue to this is that if you took away Messi from the Barcelona side, you could argue Iniesta or Xavi as being the World's best player.

Do the likes of Ronaldo or Rooney have that luxury? Food for thought.

Yes he's the best player in the World, but he is fortunate to be playing in such a fabulous side Ale
Seriously stop this rubbish that he is lucky to be playing in a fabulous side such a stupid myth.

Are you being sarcastic? Please point me in the direction of this MYTH?
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:59 pm

So should any striker that plays for Barca or Spain not get any credit because as Tweeds said himself - "I could score 2 or 3 goals a match if I was playing upfront for Barca".
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Isco Benny

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:06 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:So should any striker that plays for Barca or Spain not get any credit because as Tweeds said himself - "I could score 2 or 3 goals a match if I was playing upfront for Barca".

Who said anything about not giving Messi credit?

All I'm saying is before we drown in a sea of man jizz from all these discussions about him being "the best ever" (which is what is being talked about in the media)

let's temper it with the fact that he plays for an incredibly gifted side who, even without Messi, would probably still get to the latter stages of the CL. They did beat Inter without him did they not in the group stages ?

He's an incredible player, but saying he's the best ever is just wrong on so many different levels
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abundance

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by abundance on Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:18 pm

De Guzman wrote:
kas wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2010/04/vickery_14.html


Messi - the devastating decoy

....

According to Brazil's physical preparation specialists, at the time of that great Dutch side, players were running 5,000 metres per game. By the mid 90s this had doubled, and now some players are covering 13,000.
A lesson for the Vickery bloke: THINK!

How can I take someone (Timmeh) seriously if he copies bs without thinking.

I'm believe the early 70s players were a tad less fit, but this is BULLSHIT. Football changed, but no way near this dramatically. I regularly watch entire old matches and some are pretty similar to current ones. movement might have improved by 10-25% but no way near 160%.

FACKING RUNNERS EFFECT!
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Isco Benny

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:21 pm

Robert F'gerald Earle MBE wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:So should any striker that plays for Barca or Spain not get any credit because as Tweeds said himself - "I could score 2 or 3 goals a match if I was playing upfront for Barca".

Who said anything about not giving Messi credit?

All I'm saying is before we drown in a sea of man jizz from all these discussions about him being "the best ever" (which is what is being talked about in the media)

let's temper it with the fact that he plays for an incredibly gifted side who, even without Messi, would probably still get to the latter stages of the CL. They did beat Inter without him did they not in the group stages ?

He's an incredible player, but saying he's the best ever is just wrong on so many different levels

To be fair though Robert, the counter argument is that despite playing in a team full of world class talent, Messi still manages to shine like a bright beacon of God's light upon his minions.
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Isco Benny

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:22 pm

Robert F'gerald Earle MBE wrote:
Robert F'gerald Earle MBE wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:So should any striker that plays for Barca or Spain not get any credit because as Tweeds said himself - "I could score 2 or 3 goals a match if I was playing upfront for Barca".

Who said anything about not giving Messi credit?

All I'm saying is before we drown in a sea of man jizz from all these discussions about him being "the best ever" (which is what is being talked about in the media)

let's temper it with the fact that he plays for an incredibly gifted side who, even without Messi, would probably still get to the latter stages of the CL. They did beat Inter without him did they not in the group stages ?

He's an incredible player, but saying he's the best ever is just wrong on so many different levels

To be fair though Robert, the counter argument is that despite playing in a team full of world class talent, Messi still manages to shine like a bright beacon of God's light upon his minions.

Good point Andy.

I don't know what to think anymore. I'm going to sit on the fence on this one.

Hmmm, it feels good
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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Axeslammer on Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:57 pm

Robert F'gerald Earle MBE wrote:Ruud Gullit made a good point last night - For all Messi's incredible talent, he does benefit from having possibly the World's least wasteful midfielder playing next to him in Xavi. Even a player like Messi needs to be given the ball in the right areas to be effective.

We talk about Messi as the World's best player currently because of what he does for Barcelona, playing in probably the World's best team. Of course he's part of the reason that side is the World's best,

but the Messi who plays for Argentina for example would not be renowned as the World's best, because he doesn't have the luxury of playing with such fantastically talented team mates.

The clue to this is that if you took away Messi from the Barcelona side, you could argue Iniesta or Xavi as being the World's best player.

Do the likes of Ronaldo or Rooney have that luxury? Food for thought.

Yes he's the best player in the World, but he is fortunate to be playing in such a fabulous side Ale

On that note : Nedved, Zidane & Ronaldinho were all considered the best player in the world when they played alongside Edgar Davids...
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Isco Benny

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:12 pm

Axeslammer wrote:
Robert F'gerald Earle MBE wrote:Ruud Gullit made a good point last night - For all Messi's incredible talent, he does benefit from having possibly the World's least wasteful midfielder playing next to him in Xavi. Even a player like Messi needs to be given the ball in the right areas to be effective.

We talk about Messi as the World's best player currently because of what he does for Barcelona, playing in probably the World's best team. Of course he's part of the reason that side is the World's best,

but the Messi who plays for Argentina for example would not be renowned as the World's best, because he doesn't have the luxury of playing with such fantastically talented team mates.

The clue to this is that if you took away Messi from the Barcelona side, you could argue Iniesta or Xavi as being the World's best player.

Do the likes of Ronaldo or Rooney have that luxury? Food for thought.

Yes he's the best player in the World, but he is fortunate to be playing in such a fabulous side Ale

On that note : Nedved, Zidane & Ronaldinho were all considered the best player in the world when they played alongside Edgar Davids...

Edgar Davids also made Manchester United pay 18million for Michael Carrick.

I loved Edgar Davids in a Spurs shirt. What an honour it was to see him running (well, trudging) the White Hart Lane turf. So what if he was over the hill? You never lose it when you're that good.

A very fine player from a generation of very talented Dutchies Ale
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:16 pm

yeh shame they didn't win anything
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Isco Benny

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:24 pm

A semi final at World Cup 1998 and Euro 2000 (only losing both on penalties) is not a record to be scoffed at. More importantly, they played good, open and exciting football.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:27 pm

But it is a genuine shame they didn't win anything because they probably deserved to! Both those semi final exits were unlucky.
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:33 pm

Axeslammer wrote:
Robert F'gerald Earle MBE wrote:Ruud Gullit made a good point last night - For all Messi's incredible talent, he does benefit from having possibly the World's least wasteful midfielder playing next to him in Xavi. Even a player like Messi needs to be given the ball in the right areas to be effective.

We talk about Messi as the World's best player currently because of what he does for Barcelona, playing in probably the World's best team. Of course he's part of the reason that side is the World's best,

but the Messi who plays for Argentina for example would not be renowned as the World's best, because he doesn't have the luxury of playing with such fantastically talented team mates.

The clue to this is that if you took away Messi from the Barcelona side, you could argue Iniesta or Xavi as being the World's best player.

Do the likes of Ronaldo or Rooney have that luxury? Food for thought.

Yes he's the best player in the World, but he is fortunate to be playing in such a fabulous side Ale

On that note : Nedved, Zidane & Ronaldinho were all considered the best player in the world when they played alongside Edgar Davids...

davids was wonderful but they all proved themselves without him.
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Super Progress

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Super Progress on Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:43 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:But it is a genuine shame they didn't win anything because they probably deserved to! Both those semi final exits were unlucky.
Only saw the Italy game live(seen the Brazil game since) but it looked like a really good game. After the game against Yugoslavia everybody wanted to play like Kluivert. In the end though if you can't beat a side with 10 men after two penalties while playing at home then you can't complain.

The Czechs in 2004 was probably the most complete side to not win it though and I think an even better team then that Holland side.
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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Khadrim on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:38 pm

De Guzman wrote:
kas wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2010/04/vickery_14.html


Messi - the devastating decoy

....

According to Brazil's physical preparation specialists, at the time of that great Dutch side, players were running 5,000 metres per game. By the mid 90s this had doubled, and now some players are covering 13,000.
A lesson for the Vickery bloke: THINK!

How can I take someone (Timmeh) seriously if he copies bs without thinking.

I'm believe the early 70s players were a tad less fit, but this is BULLSHIT. Football changed, but no way near this dramatically. I regularly watch entire old matches and some are pretty similar to current ones. movement might have improved by 10-25% but no way near 160%.

Think I will believe Brazilian specialists over your expert analysis of a few games.

Incidentally this is why I think Maradona is comfotably the worlds greatest ever player. All this increase in pressure happened over the decade he was the worlds best. The game changed and he was still the best.
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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by SuperMario on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:47 pm

It's absolute bollocks. Just watch an old game!

The Argentinian WC team of 1978 had incredible endurance they kept on going. They didn't play at 40% of the pace / or run 40& of current matches. Because that's what those stupid stats say. Either Vickery misquotes them or those experts are idiots.
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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Axeslammer on Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:40 am

Super De La Red wrote:
The Czechs in 2004 was probably the most complete side to not win it though and I think an even better team then that Holland side.

Most Dutchies will agree on that ok

I would have loved for that Czech side to have won a tournament, would have been a victory for football Ale
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Khadrim

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Khadrim on Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:50 pm

Axeslammer wrote:
Super De La Red wrote:
The Czechs in 2004 was probably the most complete side to not win it though and I think an even better team then that Holland side.

Most Dutchies will agree on that ok

I would have loved for that Czech side to have won a tournament, would have been a victory for football Ale

I agree with the Czechs but after them I was happy with the Greeks winning it. They were a team as opposed to the combination individuals that made up the rest of the contenders
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Khadrim

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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Khadrim on Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:54 pm

De Guzman wrote:It's absolute bollocks. Just watch an old game!

The Argentinian WC team of 1978 had incredible endurance they kept on going. They didn't play at 40% of the pace / or run 40& of current matches. Because that's what those stupid stats say. Either Vickery misquotes them or those experts are idiots.

Actually I can believe it as watching a game on TV isn't the same as watching it live. When Spurs played Fulham at the Cottage, the highlights package made it look like a turgid draw of few chances. Sat in the stands the game seemed to be played at a ferocious tempo. Lots of pressing throughout the game
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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by fcb on Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:33 pm

Messi is not a genius.

Messi can't pass.

Messi doesn't create the breakthrough 1st moment in a game.

Messi can't do it in big games.


Anymore myths need busting about this guy? Only a strong World Cup now prevents him from overtaking Maradona and Pele as the all-time greatest.
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Re: A lesson about football (for Super De La Red & Pierre)

Post by Jaime on Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:07 pm

fcb wrote:Messi is not a genius.

Messi can't pass.

Messi doesn't create the breakthrough 1st moment in a game.

Messi can't do it in big games.


Anymore myths need busting about this guy? Only a strong World Cup now prevents him from overtaking Maradona and Pele as the all-time greatest.

Yeah but that doesn't look likely any time soon....

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