It's outdated and IMO ruins as many ties as it creates.

Bayern are in the semi finals on the back of two 4-4 draws. They may or may not have gone for more if they needed them but should this really be how teams get through these days? If one game is 4-4 the other 5-5 should the away team in the 5-5 really deserve to go through more?

I think the carling cup rules in England makes more sense. Away goals count only AFTER extra time. Scrap the rules...And reinstate Man Utd

Ofcourse it should be scrapped. Games that end like tonights are unsettled as far as i'm concerned.

the Carling Cup rule is worse IMO

the away goals rule is great, without it we'd see so many more pragmatic shit on a stick 0-0 draws.

Liverpool vs Arsenal and Liverpool vs Chelsea were great ties 2 years ago because of the rule, Liverpool/Chelsea last year also

The home/away advantage is a big deal, and who plays at home 2nd usually have an advantage but nights like tonight vindicate the away goals rule.

It's a bit soppy if Bayern reach the final without winning a tie, but they progressed tonight mainly thanks to Rooney reliant United being down to 10 men - Rooney for 45 minutes. IF Bayern had needed another goal they would have got it.

You're not thinking outside of the box Glenn. Surely with the away goal Man Utd could have defended the 1-0 lead tonight but no they wanted more and more. I don't think the away goals helps more than hinder im sure some tight games would have been more open without it and vice versa so that argument doesn't hold up.

L r dd wrote:Man Utd could have defended the 1-0 lead tonight

EXACTLY

the rule made the game so much more exciting, instead of watching 88 minutes of United defending their 18 yard box we got an epic encounter which we all enjoyed.

The rationale I've usually heard for the away-goals rule is that it is a preventative measure against away sides sitting back in cup competition - and at the same time a means of rewarding away sides for not simply sitting back.

I don't think that the rule does produce entirely satisfactory outcomes - immediately, it seems nonsense that a match between sides can end all square, yet one side progresses whilst the other does not (take the case of Werder Bremen vs Valencia from this year's Europa League, where the game in Valencia finished 1-1, the game in Bremen 4-4, and after such different yet ultimately equal games, Valencia were effectively considered the more worthy of qualification).

However, the other methods for deciding tied matches aren't perfect either (I think it is just as much a nonsense that a match can be determined on penalties which so reduce the game of football; whilst as Gone pointed out earlier, there is some difficulty in allowing extra-time (which often isn't decisive anyway) when it gives one side an extra spell of home advantage); and obviously there is ultimately no method for determining absolutely who the best side in a match is, and equally no method for absolutely rewarding whoever may be determined the best. I think the away goals-rule is fair enough, and if it doesn't tend to positively influence first legs, it does often provide entertaining seconds, especially in those games' closing stages.

Sometimes the more 'deserving' team does not advance, away goals rule or not. That's just how football goes some times.

I think it's fine. As others have pointed out, the alternatives are hardly more appealing. And although I like the possible idea of one-off ties for CL knockout games (less fixture congestion), it's not possible to find a neutral stadium for teams from 2 different countries like you can do with two English teams going to Wembley, or two Spanish teams playing at the Mestalla, etc.

Ha ha it's never great to get knocked out by a dutchie like robben

Ha ha it's never great to get knocked out by a dutchie like robben

This has nothing to do with yesterdays result mate.

kas wrote:I think it's fine. As others have pointed out, the alternatives are hardly more appealing. And although I like the possible idea of one-off ties for CL knockout games (less fixture congestion), it's not possible to find a neutral stadium for teams from 2 different countries like you can do with two English teams going to Wembley, or two Spanish teams playing at the Mestalla, etc.

Why do you need neutral venues? Home advantage in one off ties works well in most domestic cups, it also gives the chance for lesser teams to upset the powerhouses which the CL is going to need with the way the superrich clubs dominate the competition currently.

Add replays on the current date at the opposite venue should teams draw, then teams are to blame for whatever fixture conjestion they bring upon themselves. The money men wouldn't like it from the top 3 countries, which is why it probably won't happen, but the rest would welcome it.

While it feels not very good to go out or advance on away goals, I also think the alternitives aren't better either. There is no distinct solution for this "problem". And the away goal rule is there for a reason - like others already mentioned - to prevent dull matches.

Antarion wrote:While it feels not very good to go out or advance on away goals, I also think the alternitives aren't better either. There is no distinct solution for this "problem". And the away goal rule is there for a reason - like others already mentioned - to prevent dull matches.

I'm not sure how it actually does that

Dwarf wrote:

kas wrote:I think it's fine. As others have pointed out, the alternatives are hardly more appealing. And although I like the possible idea of one-off ties for CL knockout games (less fixture congestion), it's not possible to find a neutral stadium for teams from 2 different countries like you can do with two English teams going to Wembley, or two Spanish teams playing at the Mestalla, etc.

Why do you need neutral venues? Home advantage in one off ties works well in most domestic cups, it also gives the chance for lesser teams to upset the powerhouses which the CL is going to need with the way the superrich clubs dominate the competition currently.

Add replays on the current date at the opposite venue should teams draw, then teams are to blame for whatever fixture conjestion they bring upon themselves. The money men wouldn't like it from the top 3 countries, which is why it probably won't happen, but the rest would welcome it.

Sorry but one off ties WITH home advantage makes it pretty much a luck based random tournament. Look at the Bayern - ManU tie, both teams were very good at home and rather weak away.
Afterwards you would complain that the winning team had an easy streak of three home games in a row to become champion and that uefa should do sth against that.

There are two modes: world cup mode on neutral revenue or two leg mode (which also happens to have more games to watch, which is also a nice thing)

L r dd wrote:

Antarion wrote:While it feels not very good to go out or advance on away goals, I also think the alternitives aren't better either. There is no distinct solution for this "problem". And the away goal rule is there for a reason - like others already mentioned - to prevent dull matches.

I'm not sure how it actually does that

Well, it's hard to prove. You will probably need a tournament without the rule to see how it turns out. Maybe I am wrong. Should be tested in the Europa League maybe.

L r dd wrote:This has nothing to do with yesterdays result mate.

bitter tears...

BTW first goal mistake by Van der Sar?

L r dd wrote:This has nothing to do with yesterdays result mate.

Sure ...

Ricardo Wetzel wrote:

L r dd wrote:This has nothing to do with yesterdays result mate.

bitter tears...

BTW first goal mistake by Van der Sar?

Carrick's mistake. VDS made some good saves he was fine IMO couldn't do much about either goal.

Antarion wrote:

Dwarf wrote:

kas wrote:I think it's fine. As others have pointed out, the alternatives are hardly more appealing. And although I like the possible idea of one-off ties for CL knockout games (less fixture congestion), it's not possible to find a neutral stadium for teams from 2 different countries like you can do with two English teams going to Wembley, or two Spanish teams playing at the Mestalla, etc.

Why do you need neutral venues? Home advantage in one off ties works well in most domestic cups, it also gives the chance for lesser teams to upset the powerhouses which the CL is going to need with the way the superrich clubs dominate the competition currently.

Add replays on the current date at the opposite venue should teams draw, then teams are to blame for whatever fixture conjestion they bring upon themselves. The money men wouldn't like it from the top 3 countries, which is why it probably won't happen, but the rest would welcome it.

Sorry but one off ties WITH home advantage makes it pretty much a luck based random tournament. Look at the Bayern - ManU tie, both teams were very good at home and rather weak away.
Afterwards you would complain that the winning team had an easy streak of three home games in a row to become champion and that uefa should do sth against that.

There are two modes: world cup mode on neutral revenue or two leg mode (which also happens to have more games to watch, which is also a nice thing)

That's the key factor about the 2 legged setup now - huge TV money by having a guaranteed 2 matches of Barça vs. Arsenal, for example.

The away goal rule makes it more difficult to get into extra time so on that i think it is a fair rule to get a game played within 90minutes.

Everyone knows on before hand what the rules are and there is no disadvantage within the 90 minutes....

What I don't like is that the away still counts after 90 minutes... I think that is truely abjectable. I mean, if there is no winner after two games why the away team maintain the advantage at extra time?

Antarion wrote:
Sorry but one off ties WITH home advantage makes it pretty much a luck based random tournament. Look at the Bayern - ManU tie, both teams were very good at home and rather weak away.

Why is making a tournament more luck based a bad thing? Before Rooney got injured Man Utd's draw was dismissed as easy and they should cruise to the final. Even with that injury they were still 3-0 up and if Rafael hadn't been sent off they would probably have gone through even with an unlikely one off event. In Germany you respect every team in the CL knock out stage as you know there's no such thing as an easy draw. In England with the current format at the moment half the teams are considered easy draws, with one off away ties every team in the CL knock out stages is a dangerous proposition.

Afterwards you would complain that the winning team had an easy streak of three home games in a row to become champion and that uefa should do sth against that.

We'd complain about the luck a team receives, not that the format is wrong should a top team progress through to the final as they'd do so regardless of the format with that draw. If we complained about an underdog reaching the final with 3 ties we have no care for the nations out of Europe's 5 big leagues.

L r dd wrote:Bayern are in the semi finals on the back of two 4-4 draws.

Bayern are in the semis on the basis of:
- some mistake of the opponents
- and endless conveyor belt of bloody freakin' luck
- great stubborness (that at least to their credit)

when these elements conjure togheter in football, there's no rule that can avoid the seemingly less deserving to go through.


The away goal rule can be cruel and has pro & cons.
It can make things more or less interesting depending on the context - ie, see CSKA-Inter, Sneijder away goal after 6 mins actually killed the 2nd leg from the beginning.

Anyway it's true in general that it avoid an excess of bus parking in the first leg.

But the most useful thing about it is that it avoids an excess of extra-time and penalty shootouts, which is the cruelest and most random end for a football match.

With the away rule, only a mirror result in both ties will drag the match to penalties, as opposed to any combination with equal sum of goals.

Ricardo Wetzel wrote:The away goal rule makes it more difficult to get into extra time so on that i think it is a fair rule to get a game played within 90minutes.

Everyone knows on before hand what the rules are and there is no disadvantage within the 90 minutes....

What I don't like is that the away still counts after 90 minutes... I think that is truely abjectable. I mean, if there is no winner after two games why the away team maintain the advantage at extra time?

I think thats fair - why should the team playing the 2nd leg at home have the home advantage for extra time?? I think the away goals rule in extra time balances that off.

I actually like the away goals rule...

Makes for exciting matches IMO.

abundance wrote:

L r dd wrote:Bayern are in the semi finals on the back of two 4-4 draws.

Bayern are in the semis on the basis of:
- some mistake of the opponents
- and endless conveyor belt of bloody freakin' luck
- great stubborness (that at least to their credit)

when these elements conjure togheter in football, there's no rule that can avoid the seemingly less deserving to go through.


The away goal rule can be cruel and has pro & cons.
It can make things more or less interesting depending on the context - ie, see CSKA-Inter, Sneijder away goal after 6 mins actually killed the 2nd leg from the beginning.

Anyway it's true in general that it avoid an excess of bus parking in the first leg.

But the most useful thing about it is that it avoids an excess of extra-time and penalty shootouts, which is the cruelest and most random end for a football match.

With the away rule, only a mirror result in both ties will drag the match to penalties, as opposed to any combination with equal sum of goals.

Good post, agree completely.

Inter have suffered a lot due to this rule in recent past (Valencia, Villareal, freakin Milan at San Siro!, etc), but then, the rule was very clear and Inter knew how it works. Overall this rule is the best option out there - else like abundance said, there will be too many extra times and penalty shootouts.

I don't like the away goals rule, but I can't see a better option...

He he, at least notorious United fan Henry Winter in the Torygraph is a better loser

"As the final whistle signalled the end of United’s hopes of a third successive final, Old Trafford’s DJ rather kindly played a song called ''Keeping The Dream Alive’’ by Munchener Freiheit, a band beloved by the Bayern faithful. All the visiting fans joined in, rampaging through the chorus in perfect English, echoing their grasp of Anglo-Saxon heard in an earlier chant of ''Who the **** are Man United’’. Typical Germans. At least there will be some good English speakers, if no English clubs, in the semi-finals."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/manutd/7564275/Manchester-United-3-Bayern-Munich-2-agg-4-4-Bayern-win-on-away-goals-match-report.html

This has what to do with away goals? you plonker.

Of course this rule should be scrapped. Problem is it ends pretty often in a draw then what? Third match on neutral ground? Sudden death? Straight to penalties?

I mean Bayern knocked Manu out by winning 2-1 at home. At least Manu won 3-2 therefore more goals involved and more entertaining match overall and thus it should them to go through on more scored home goals. Beats the away-goal rule imo.

Fey wrote:Of course this rule should be scrapped. Problem is it ends pretty often in a draw then what? Third match on neutral ground? Sudden death? Straight to penalties?

I mean Bayern knocked Manu out by winning 2-1 at home. At least Manu won 3-2 therefore more goals involved and more entertaining match overall and thus it should them to go through on more scored home goals. Beats the away-goal rule imo.

Well, apart from the fact that this is nonsense, don't you think the games would have been played very differently if the rule was "more home goals".

It's totally self-defeating, of course. Away teams would just sit back and try not to concede. Anti-football would reign. Just what everybody wants.

The rule is fine the way it is. Although, me saying that doesn't mean much. (Even if I do remember Bayern going out against Milan after winning 2-1aet after losing the first leg 0-1 to a dodgy penalty.)