Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

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Allez les rouges

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Allez les rouges on Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:49 pm

All I'm trying to say is that (as much as we all like to be a little bit polemical on here) it's as absurd to say "Arsenal and Arsène Wenger have nothing to do with the development of Cesc into what he is today" as it is to say "Arsenal alone have made him what he is and he owes us everything". The truth, surely, lies somewhere in the middle. Cesc has been a first-teamer since 2005, which just wouldn't have been the case, or possible, at many other "top" clubs, and when you have a first team as awesome as Barça's it's understandable that even their brightest young talents don't get chances in important games, or at least perhaps not quite so young. Bojan, OK.

I know plenty of Arsenal's 17-18-year-olds, likes of Coquelin, Cruise, Sunu, Watt and so on, have been to Youth Cup finals and League Cup games they've had a chance in. 16-year-olds, maybe less so. Fair play to Kas and Messiah if they knew much about Cesc in 2003, though some people outside this board might question in that case whether they should get out more... Wink
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Super Progress

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Super Progress on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:10 pm

Allez les rouges wrote:All I'm trying to say is that (as much as we all like to be a little bit polemical on here) it's as absurd to say "Arsenal and Arsène Wenger have nothing to do with the development of Cesc into what he is today" as it is to say "Arsenal alone have made him what he is and he owes us everything". The truth, surely, lies somewhere in the middle. Cesc has been a first-teamer since 2005, which just wouldn't have been the case, or possible, at many other "top" clubs, and when you have a first team as awesome as Barça's it's understandable that even their brightest young talents don't get chances in important games, or at least perhaps not quite so young. Bojan, OK.

I know plenty of Arsenal's 17-18-year-olds, likes of Coquelin, Cruise, Sunu, Watt and so on, have been to Youth Cup finals and League Cup games they've had a chance in. 16-year-olds, maybe less so. Fair play to Kas and Messiah if they knew much about Cesc in 2003, though some people outside this board might question in that case whether they should get out more... Wink
ok
Cesc got a lot more responsibility from Wenger then any coach would have given him and grew as a response at a surprising rate. He would probably not have gotten that chance at any other top club.
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S4P

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by S4P on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:17 pm

fcb wrote:What proof do you have that Barça tapped up Cesc? There's no evidence that I know of that the board or coach has spoken to the player directly, which afaik is considered the definition of tapping up. Talks have probably taken place with the agent, but that's normal.

They don't need to. Puyol, Pique, Xavi and Iniesta seem happy to act as the "middle men".

Have you ever seen a transfer where so many players from one club have got involved?

The only reason I said Messi is because you all appear to get upset whenever a club comes in and poaches one of your academy players. The reaction if it happened to Messi would surpass even the reaction to the Figo transfer.

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:45 pm

All is fair in any transfer for arsenal players by barca as far as I'm concern.

Look at how Wenger himself and the club went about getting Cesc and especially Fran.

With any other team i would be against it, but not arsenal, they have no right to complain at things considered.
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Super Progress

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Super Progress on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:56 pm

Messiah wrote:All is fair in any transfer for arsenal players by barca as far as I'm concern.

Look at how Wenger himself and the club went about getting Cesc and especially Fran.

With any other team i would be against it, but not arsenal, they have no right to complain at things considered.

lol!
Stop bullshitting Biggrin

Barcelona aren't behaving in the most ethical way but I think it is silly that they have a rule against clubs talking to players. It happens anyway and everybody knows it. Ultimately a player has to decide if he wants to talk with his club and if not then nothing will happen.

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Guest on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:01 pm

Super Laudrup wrote:
Messiah wrote:All is fair in any transfer for arsenal players by barca as far as I'm concern.

Look at how Wenger himself and the club went about getting Cesc and especially Fran.

With any other team i would be against it, but not arsenal, they have no right to complain at things considered.

lol!
Stop bullshitting Biggrin

Barcelona aren't behaving in the most ethical way but I think it is silly that they have a rule against clubs talking to players. It happens anyway and everybody knows it. Ultimately a player has to decide if he wants to talk with his club and if not then nothing will happen.

, probabaly wouldn't be against it, but it wouldn't be quite so sweet.
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The Pröfessör

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by The Pröfessör on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:14 pm







Tough luck Barca fans, this genuis is ours. Yes he's got our DNA Very Happy

King Henry once said the following:

"I said I was going to be a Gunner for life, and I did not lie, because when you are a Gunner you will always be a Gunner.”


Cesc will always be a Gunner.

stinger

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by stinger on Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:32 pm

lol!

L r dd

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by L r dd on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:31 pm

Prof is a funny man. Biggrin Just hope he doesn't believe half the stuff he types
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Matt_AFC

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Matt_AFC on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:08 pm

YES Prof <Ale>
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S4P

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by S4P on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:08 pm

lol! Despite the fact that I don't like a team getting 4-5 of its star players to "tap up" a player for them, I would like to see Fabregas join Barca, so that the "£50m genius" can warm the bench all season.
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Six

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Six on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:27 pm

S4P wrote:lol! Despite the fact that I don't like a team getting 4-5 of its star players to "tap up" a player for them, I would like to see Fabregas join Barca, so that the "£50m genius" can warm the bench all season.

I would like to see him join Barca so I don't have to read about this for the next 12 months. <Ale>
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TheCrazy58

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by TheCrazy58 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:03 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/cesc-fabregas/7929198/Cesc-Fabregas-to-stay-at-Arsenal-following-positive-talks-with-manager-Arsene-Wenger.html

Cesc Fábregas to stay at Arsenal following positive talks with manager Arsène Wenger

Arsenal are convinced they have finally won the battle to keep Cesc

Fábregas after their captain committed his immediate future to the club during talks with Arsène Wenger.

By Jeremy Wilson
Published: 7:47PM BST 05 Aug 2010

Fabregas and Wenger held a lengthy meeting at the club’s London Colney training base on Wednesday afternoon at which it was resolved that he would definitely not be securing a move to Barcelona this summer.

The 23 year-old was then a visible presence at the open training session for fans and he also took his seat in the centre of the club’s official team photograph for next season.

There was no public message from Fábregas to the 7,000 supporters who came to the open day but a statement to confirm his commitment to Arsenal is expected imminently. The club and Fábregas’s agent, Darren Dein, were understood to have been working on the exact wording yesterday and it is likely to be released within the next 24 hours.

Arsenal have always been adamant that Fábregas would stay but are well aware that they can only draw a line under the situation once their captain also publicly accepts the situation.

They now hope that the persistent distraction of Barcelona’s desire to bring Fábregas back to the Nou Camp will ease. Wenger had become concerned that all the speculation could affect his other players and resolved to deal with the situation just as soon as Fábregas returned from holiday.

By having Fábregas clear the air, Wenger believes Arsenal can focus fully on what he expects to be the breakthrough season for his young squad.

Although Arsenal and their fans will welcome the news that Fábregas is staying, this saga could hardly have unfolded in a much less satisfactory fashion for the Spaniard.

By allowing his earlier desire to leave to become public, he presumably thought that Barcelona would come up with enough money or Arsenal would buckle under all the pressure. Neither has happened and he must now convince the supporters that his commitment is genuine and lasting.

The response to Fábregas at the open training session suggested that he has not burnt his bridges with the fans. The players were introduced to the crowd individually by former goalkeeper Bob Wilson and, as he welcomed “our captain and World Cup winner”, there were only cheers and applause. The welcomes for Robin van Persie, Emmanuel Eboue and Andrei Arshavin might have been noticeably louder, but Fábregas just looked relieved to discover he was still among friends. He responded with a smile and prolonged applause for the supporters.

He then took his place at the front of the group as the squad jogged around the pitch to a sustained chant of, 'we’ve got Cesc Fábregas’. A sign urging him to stay was also unveiled.

With 24 days having elapsed since he provided the assist for Andres Iniesta’s goal that won the World Cup, Fábregas’s return to training was gentle and he spent most of the session simply jogging up and down the touchline with Van Persie.

The session concluded with a training match that did not involve Fábregas but from which Wenger provided further hints as to his likely starting line-up against Liverpool next Sunday.

With Alex Song and Aaron Ramsey unable to train due to injury, Emmanuel Frimpong and Jack Wilshere continued their Emirates Cup partnership in the centre of a midfield that also included Samir Nasri and Andrei Arshavin.

Wenger has already decided that Fábregas and Van Persie will play no part in the final pre-season friendly of the summer against Legia Warsaw tomorrow, meaning they are likely only to be substitutes at Anfield on Aug 15.
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Calidad

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Calidad on Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:28 am

Good news for both clubs ok
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Romford Pele

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Romford Pele on Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:54 pm

S4P wrote:lol! Despite the fact that I don't like a team getting 4-5 of its star players to "tap up" a player for them, I would like to see Fabregas join Barca, so that the "£50m genius" can warm the bench all season.

I can gurantee that if Barca spend £50m or more he will not sit on the bench.
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S4P

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by S4P on Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:58 pm

You think he will play ahead of Xavi and Iniesta when all 3 are fit?

Barca won't spend £50m anyway. They'll wait another year or 2 until Xavi's level starts to drop and then they'll buy Cesc (who at 25 will probably be a better player than he is now) for around £25-30m.
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COTR

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by COTR on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:01 pm

Romford Pele wrote:
S4P wrote:lol! Despite the fact that I don't like a team getting 4-5 of its star players to "tap up" a player for them, I would like to see Fabregas join Barca, so that the "£50m genius" can warm the bench all season.

I can gurantee that if Barca spend £50m or more he will not sit on the bench.

Like Ibra ok
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Romford Pele

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Romford Pele on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:05 pm

There are ways of incorporating all 3 into the side without upsetting the balance.

Every single one of their players have been coming out raving about how they'd love him in their side. Would they really be talking about a bench player like that?

Add to the fact that he is 23, which leaves room for more improvement (ridiculous as that sounds) - his price is surely going to be inflated.

And if he continues improving like he is then £50m will be a bargain. No way will he be benched.

I think Xavi dictates the tempo of a game very well, but Cesc is a lot more direct and more often than not delivers a superb final ball - better than that of Xavi in my opinion. This alone warrants him a place in the starting 11. Ale
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Romford Pele

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Romford Pele on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:08 pm

COTR wrote:
Romford Pele wrote:
S4P wrote:lol! Despite the fact that I don't like a team getting 4-5 of its star players to "tap up" a player for them, I would like to see Fabregas join Barca, so that the "£50m genius" can warm the bench all season.

I can gurantee that if Barca spend £50m or more he will not sit on the bench.

Like Ibra ok

Ibra started more often than not last season.

Difference with Ibra and Cesc is that Cesc is a lot younger, along with being suited more to the Barca style of play.

Everyone could see that Ibra was never really going to lead the line as Eto'o did. Hence the Villa decision. There aren't many people better than Cesc in his position currently. The same can't be said for Ibrapique.
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S4P

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by S4P on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:47 pm

Romford Pele wrote:There are ways of incorporating all 3 into the side without upsetting the balance.

Every single one of their players have been coming out raving about how they'd love him in their side. Would they really be talking about a bench player like that?

Add to the fact that he is 23, which leaves room for more improvement (ridiculous as that sounds) - his price is surely going to be inflated.

And if he continues improving like he is then £50m will be a bargain. No way will he be benched.

I think Xavi dictates the tempo of a game very well, but Cesc is a lot more direct and more often than not delivers a superb final ball - better than that of Xavi in my opinion. This alone warrants him a place in the starting 11.

Barcelona play 4-3-3. They always play 4-3-3. The only way you can include all of them is by moving Iniesta into the 'attacking' 3, alongside Messi and one other (something the Barca fans on here seem to have been quite critical of when Guardiola has done it).

Against the better sides, a midfield trio of Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas could be very vulnerable, for the simple fact that none of them are "destroyer"-type CMs (like Busquets and Yaya Toure).

Fabregas is a very good player, with the potential of becoming a truly great player. But he's not at the level of Xavi imo.
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Romford Pele

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Romford Pele on Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:00 pm

I've also seen them deploy 4-2-3-1 in certain games where Xavi has played off the main striker. In that role I think Cesc can do a better job.

Whilst I also agree Iniesta is better in the centre like most AM's, it's evidently gonna fall down to what Pep wants rather than trying to appease the Barca fans.

Obviously a midfield three with them would suffer dearly in big games, and most people know that.

I could see them deploying something like this in the future:

------------------Biscuits-------Xavi-----------------

----------Messi-----------Cesc----------Iniesta--------

----------------------------Villa------------------

Anyway, all this talk is futile, he's staying at Arsenal for another year at least. By the time he eventually does join them, he'll start for sure Ale
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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Jaime on Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:03 pm

Iniesta on the left wing is BLASPHEMY!!!!!

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Romford Pele

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Romford Pele on Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:05 pm

Ok, so we'll move Iniesta back to the centre and never discuss Cesc again? Very Happy
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Jaime

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Jaime on Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:07 pm

Romford Pele wrote:Ok, so we'll move Iniesta back to the centre and never discuss Cesc again? Very Happy

Ale

Until next year of course...
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fcb

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by fcb on Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:30 pm

Strong words from Cesc...he wants to start this off again bounce



Cesc Fábregas has voiced grave misgivings over Arsenal's refusal to spend big in the transfer market, saying the club must decide whether they want to "go out to win or to develop players".

Fábregas has revealed his frustration at Arsenal's failure to take the "final step" on the eve of his team's to Tottenham Hotspur, when they will attempt to revive their faltering Premier League title challenge. He also said that the managers of the top clubs in his native Spain would not survive three years without winning a trophy. Arsène Wenger's Arsenal have won nothing since the FA Cup in 2005.

"If you went to Spain and said to [Pep] Guardiola, [José] Mourinho or Unai Emery [the Valencia manager] that they would have three years without winning a trophy, it would be obvious they would not continue [at their clubs]," the Arsenal captain said.

"Here, it is different, the manager is intelligent and the club value different things: that the team is always in the Champions League, that we compete until the end, that we have young players, economic stability. For the board, this is important. But I imagine there will be a moment when you have to decide: do you win things or not?

"When I started here, we won the Cup [in 2005] and got to the Champions League final [in 2006]. Barça beat us with an extra man and it was not a victory but it was the first time that the club had got to a Champions League final. Millions of players had played here and it was us that did it.

"But from 2007 on, I started to say: 'We don't win but we play very well.' And after that you realise that it doesn't work. You enjoy it, during a part of the season, like this year when we were in four different competitions and you say: 'Here, I have it all.' But then you cannot make the final step and it is here where a decision has to be made: to go out to win or to develop players."

Fábregas, who joined Arsenal as a 16-year-old from Barcelona at the beginning of the 2003-04 season, said he had enjoyed learning from the club's Invincibles [who were unbeaten that season]. But he lamented the lack of experienced "reference points" in the current squad.

"I was in a winning team and it was impressive," he said. "You felt that if you had a bad game, nothing happened because your team-mates helped you. Now, a lot has changed, and I am the man that everyone looks to. I don't like to say it but it is true. If I play badly, I take responsibility and the pressure of the supporters. Only me and [Robin] Van Persie remain of that generation, and we have a lot of responsibility. Me and Van Persie learned from the best. Now it is different because we are all so young and there is nobody you look at and say: 'Wow.'

"Young players learn from the older ones. Now, it is more complicated. If you put [Jack] Wilshere in the team that played before … it is different. I am not saying better or worse. Before, there were reference points, winning and strong players and playing with them, you learned faster."

Fábregas has been heavily linked over the past two summers with a return to Barcelona and it feels inevitable that the saga will be reprised once more. "The day that I leave Arsenal, it will be with my head and not just because," Fábregas said. "And who says you will play in your new team? Or that you will develop? Here, I have a lot of luck on a personal level – despite not winning a lot – and I am doing very well.

"I speak with [Carles] Puyol, who says that he didn't win a thing until he was 26. Patience and hard work are the most important things in life. You will not see me [convinced by an ambitious project]. And if one day I leave Arsenal, it will never be to sign for another English club. That is for certain."
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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by fcb on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:00 pm

Arsenal have rejected Barça's 2nd bid of 38m euros (32m up front, which includes 3m from Cesc, plus 6m in variables). They are holding out for 40m pounds (46m euros).
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bluenine

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by bluenine on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:09 pm

fcb wrote:Arsenal have rejected Barça's 2nd bid of 38m euros (32m up front, which includes 3m from Cesc, plus 6m in variables). They are holding out for 40m pounds (46m euros).

I find it a bit silly that Barca are willing to spend so much money on a player they really do not need... you have so many great midfield players, and some quality ones coming through... why waste money? You will be better off buying a top quality back up CB, and spend mush less....
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Fade out

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Fade out on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:22 pm

bluenine wrote:why waste Qatar money?
Basketball
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fcb

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by fcb on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:22 pm

According to the BBC, a formal 2nd offer has not actually been made, but Gazidis will have talks with Barcelona directors today.

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Re: Let's talk about Cesc baby...all summer long

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:18 pm

Was listen to side lowe the other day on some podcast, he was basically saying that some barca insiders are saying pep and zubi are pushing the deal because

1) the midfield is the foundation on which everything at barca is built.

2) so by getting cesc, they will maintain a 3.5 year gap between the midfielders thus ensuring a smooth transition, in the midfield for the next decade at least.

Xavi(31),Inietsa(27)...........Thiago(20). a 24/25 year old is missing, and cesc is the ideal choice, in the eyes of zubi and pep for obvious reasons.


Xavi(31)....Iniesta(27)...Cesc(24)....Thiago(20)....Sergi Samper(16)(remember the name)

So the push for cesc in not being done in terms of pure squad numbers(makes little sense) but in terms of feeling a gap age gap that they see in midfield.

Its the same reasoning in selling oriol to chelsea with the buy back clause as well.

Oriol(20)...Busquets(23)....Mascherano (27), in 2/3 seasons they are planning to sell masch and use some of the money to bring in back oriol.

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