integration: should players sing national anthems

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christmasborocooper

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:32 am

That is 100% genuine it would appear.

Made me feel like tearing the place up.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:42 am

I loved the pride that Bam Bam Zamorano showed in the Chilean one



My personal favourite is the Canadian one - really stirs the soul for me. I do sing God save the queen, but it never gees me up for anything, like a proper anthem should do.

L r dd

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by L r dd on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:11 am

Javier Glennetti wrote:
borocooper wrote:

Here it is.

Sounds like a fucking novelty Bob The Builder christmas song...and there's some bullshit choir girl crap at the start too.

Please tell me that's not it. It made me feel genuine shame and I'm blushing.

I like it
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blutgraetsche

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:36 am

Jules Rimet isn't gleaming anymore - it's collecting dust in the Brazil trophy cabinet for 40 fucking years now!
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:32 am

L r dd wrote:
Javier Glennetti wrote:
borocooper wrote:

Here it is.

Sounds like a fucking novelty Bob The Builder christmas song...and there's some bullshit choir girl crap at the start too.

Please tell me that's not it. It made me feel genuine shame and I'm blushing.

I like it

No offense but... Shocked ........ Laughing
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Axeslammer

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Axeslammer on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:39 am

Lusitan wrote:

No offense but... Shocked ........ Laughing

He's taking the piss for sure Ale

Strange though that England makes a song about the team not getting out of the group and "coming home" Bam
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Ricardo Jol on Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:43 am

Calidad wrote:
Ol wrote:
Lusitan wrote:In our country you'll get fire if you don't sing. Specialy if you are not "born" here. It's one of the first things everyone was seeking on Deco, Pepe and Liedson's first official match.

Personal POV? They should know it and sing it. They are defending the country, not a club.

Good thing too. I've noticed Camoranesi doesn't sing it either. IMO that tells you all you need to know about how he feels about Italy - he's an Argentinian playing for Italy as if it were any other club team.



Always amuses me watching him. Everyone is belting it out in full voice, and it get's to him and he just looks miserable.
I loved the way they are involed with it except argentina boy camonaresi
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Barrilete on Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:05 pm

I preffer this one...much better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiAaCB9pgGs

it's right up there with the benny hill show... Rolling Eyes
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Onur 1905 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:50 pm

The anthems make people feel their national belonging. It is necessary to distinguish club matches and national matches.
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Axeslammer on Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:53 pm

Onur 1905 wrote:The anthems make people feel their national belonging. It is necessary to distinguish club matches and national matches.

At SC Heerenveen they sing the Frisian anthem before each match...

(and we sing 't Grunnings Laid when we play against them, it's like an international match indeed)
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:38 pm

borocooper wrote:

Here it is.

Sounds like a fucking novelty Bob The Builder christmas song...and there's some bullshit choir girl crap at the start too.

Shameful.

The original reminds me of when I really loved our national team and felt genuinely gutted following defeats.

* I always laughed at "all those oh so nears" - er there's been one Neutral
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OP9

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by OP9 on Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:48 pm

Of my two countries I like the American anthem much better...Mexico's anthem like someone else said is outdated and doesn't represent what the country is like right now. I mean "Mexicanos, al grito de guerra" - I live in Mexico by the way, I'm not one of those chicanos living in LA - I'm half American of Italian descent and half Mexican

We've haven't been in a war for 100 years


But the American anthem at American Football games always makes my heart bounce


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQS-WuUYZxQ
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TheCrazy58

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by TheCrazy58 on Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:28 am

Lusitan wrote:
TheCrazy58 wrote:
Lusitan wrote:
Six wrote:
Ol wrote:
Lusitan wrote:In our country you'll get fire if you don't sing. Specialy if you are not "born" here. It's one of the first things everyone was seeking on Deco, Pepe and Liedson's first official match.

Personal POV? They should know it and sing it. They are defending the country, not a club.

Good thing too. I've noticed Camoranesi doesn't sing it either. IMO that tells you all you need to know about how he feels about Italy - he's an Argentinian playing for Italy as if it were any other club team.

What about someone like Gary Neville, doesn't make him unpatriotic if he has issues with the lyrical content of the anthem. As an agnostic, it means nothing to me. Being English does however. A lot of the anthems are just outdated and don't represent the countries as they are now.

I do agree that some are really outdated. Don't think it's the case with ours (if one don't take it literaly). It's just a call to arms, to motivate, to regroup. I think that's why most Portuguese still like it and sing it.

I like the Portugese national anthem. Don't know what the lyrics mean but the melody is good, stirring stuff.

here, it's close enough :

Heroes of the sea, noble race,

Valiant and immortal nation,

Now is the hour to raise up on high once more

Portugal's splendour.

From out of the mists of memory,

Oh Homeland, we hear the voices

Of your great forefathers

That shall lead you on to victory!


CHORUS

To arms, to arms

On land and sea!

To arms, to arms

To fight for our Homeland!

To march against the enemy guns!

Thx, pretty belligerent stuff for one of the more laid back countries I've been to. When was the last time Portugal fought a war (apart from the colonial wars in Africa)? - you weren't in WWI or II were you?
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:17 am

I suppose, this debate is somewhat different in countries like the UK

because the National Anthem is hardly popular amongst English aboriginies either

GOD
should SAVE
a frumpy QUEEN

when God, at the moment, does not even seem to like the (Catholic) Church

the Queen eats her Conrflakes out of Tupper Ware

and hardly needs SAVING considering the number of CASTLES and Swiss numbered bankaccounts she has

if anything, it should be

God save SARAH

(who, word on the streets of Munich has it, even sold her BODY for money to a bunch of oil sheiks Yikes )

-----------

so @englanders

let's imagine having a NEUTRAL anthem

a text and melody that lends itself to SINGING

and that the majority of the fans LIKE singing and DO SING

similar to a popular CLUB ANTHEM

under those circumstances, should the players sing it as well

and if push comes to shove, be FORCED to sing it ?

-----------

to some extent , this is also a question about INTEGRATION, I suppose

in Germany, for a reason not clear to me, players with an ethnic minority background, do not feel BLESSED and LUCKY to be able to play for GERMANY and actually be able to WIN something

rather

they seem to think that GEMANY is LUCKY they decided to play with the EAGLE on their chest

it's BIZARRE in the extreme

even more so , considering that we have so many players nowadays,

that we truly do not DEPEND on any one player

EVERYBODY is exchangable

if Trochowski does not want to sing the ANTHEM and does not feel FULLY German, we have Mller, who is better anyway

if ZIL does not want to sing the ANTHEM , we can easily go for Kroos

if BOATENG does not feel German, we can go for Hummels, Hwedes....

WITHOUT anybody blinking an eye

------------

in Germany, we have now reached a point where an "ethnic minority-player" who thinks he should play for Germany already (despite only being just about 20 years old)

will put pressure on the national manager via the media to pick him IMMEDIATELY

otherwise he will just play for the country of his (usually) father

so

NOT SINGING the anthem reflects pretty well the LACK of LOYALTY to the national CAUSE

zil, Boateng, Aogo, Trochowski... have all flirted with the idea of playing for their fathers' countries and in some cases used the MEDIA to exert pressure on the BUndestrainer

---------

Lusitan's argument above, that an "adopted son" SHOULD try extra hard to show he FITS IN, is the exact opposite to what we experience in Germany though

here, we have maximum understanding for the predicament of the player with "multiple identities"

---------

which really begs the question, how well ethnic minorites are INTEGRATED in your countries

and whether there is ANY PRESSURE on them to integrate

or rather like in the USA

they are desperate

THEMSELVES

to join the mainstream

I still get the feeling that in Germany, INTEGRATION is not working at all

in this sense: BAD NEWS

the GERMAN TALENT: Choupo-Moting

for whom I have had BIG HOPES, has just decided to play for Cameroon

Yikes

despite being born in Germany, having a German mother, having played for German youth teams, and still being a kid, really (ie, having all the time in the world)

Yikes

something is wrong in the Vaterland

http://www.mopo.de/2010/20100604/sport/hsv/choupo_moting_stuermt_neben_superstar_eto_o.html
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Allez les rouges

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:44 pm

Karl-Otto Le Pen. I have seldom read such drivel.
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Lusitan

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Fri Jun 04, 2010 2:49 pm

TheCrazy58 wrote:
...[snip]...

Thx, pretty belligerent stuff for one of the more laid back countries I've been to. When was the last time Portugal fought a war (apart from the colonial wars in Africa)? - you weren't in WWI or II were you?

On the first but not on the second.

As for non beligerant, i think it's hiden, you can see our true nature on the road lol!
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:00 pm

Allez les rouges wrote:Karl-Otto Le Pen. I have seldom read such drivel.

as always

compliments don't come bigger than that

cheers

although I genuinely fail to see which part you find particularly worth of condemnation

we are losing our U-players by the truckloads to other countries

"ethnic minority players" ENJOY playing for Germany

but run away faster than Horst Khler when times get tough

it's also mostly THEM who refuse to sing the ANTHEM

(which is as innocent as it gets)

zil just explained to Bild why he does not sing the ANTHEM

a) he claims he has to PRAY when it's playing
b) he claims he has to CONCENTRATE on the game, when the anthem is playing

Neutral
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Lusitan

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:08 pm

wrote:
Lusitan's argument above, that an "adopted son" SHOULD try extra hard to show he FITS IN, is the exact opposite to what we experience in Germany though

here, we have maximum understanding for the predicament of the player with "multiple identities"

I dont think i said "try extra hard"... He just has to show he fit's in, he will not be considered Portuguese until he does, than he becomes one more, he doesn't need to keep doing it.

About the "understanding" and the "integration", why should someone chose to become Portuguese (why should we allow it) if he isn't yet integrated?
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:10 pm

Lusitan wrote:

About the "understanding" and the "integration", why should someone chose to become Portuguese (why should we allow it) if he isn't yet integrated?

what about economic reasons ?

as for the "why should we ALLOW it?"

VERY good question

100% justified as well

EVERYBODY asks it in the USA as well

VERY FEW people do in Germany

and when they do , they are quickly portrayed as being racists

Neutral
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Lusitan

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:22 pm

wrote:
Lusitan wrote:

About the "understanding" and the "integration", why should someone chose to become Portuguese (why should we allow it) if he isn't yet integrated?

what about economic reasons ?

as for the "why should we ALLOW it?"

VERY good question

100% justified as well

EVERYBODY asks it in the USA as well

VERY FEW people do in Germany

and when they do , they are quickly portrayed as being racists

Neutral

Economic reasons? Why should that be valid in a nationality change?
It's his own interest over that of the nation?
We already have enough people like that here (some in the government), don't need new ones.
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TheCrazy58

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by TheCrazy58 on Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:18 pm

Lusitan wrote:
TheCrazy58 wrote:
...[snip]...

Thx, pretty belligerent stuff for one of the more laid back countries I've been to. When was the last time Portugal fought a war (apart from the colonial wars in Africa)? - you weren't in WWI or II were you?

On the first but not on the second.

As for non beligerant, i think it's hiden, you can see our true nature on the road lol!

Well obviously you know better, but every time I've been to Portugal I didn't feel that edge that you feel in Spain, for example. You managed to overthrow a 40(?) -year old dictatorship without hardly any bloodshed, which was impressive. And you have these ancient little trams pootling around Lisbon....I love those. ok One of the lasting impressions I have of Lisbon from my last visit (2005) was the guards at the parliament building chatting amogst themselves while they were actually on guard, supposedly protecting the building. I'm planning another trip later this year, to go to Evora and Fatima and looking forward to it.
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:54 am

TheCrazy58 wrote:
Lusitan wrote:
TheCrazy58 wrote:
...[snip]...

Thx, pretty belligerent stuff for one of the more laid back countries I've been to. When was the last time Portugal fought a war (apart from the colonial wars in Africa)? - you weren't in WWI or II were you?

On the first but not on the second.

As for non beligerant, i think it's hiden, you can see our true nature on the road lol!

Well obviously you know better, but every time I've been to Portugal I didn't feel that edge that you feel in Spain, for example. You managed to overthrow a 40(?) -year old dictatorship without hardly any bloodshed, which was impressive. And you have these ancient little trams pootling around Lisbon....I love those. ok One of the lasting impressions I have of Lisbon from my last visit (2005) was the guards at the parliament building chatting amogst themselves while they were actually on guard, supposedly protecting the building. I'm planning another trip later this year, to go to Evora and Fatima and looking forward to it.

And you know you'll be very welcome. Those are beautifull places. ok
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TheCrazy58

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by TheCrazy58 on Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:50 am

Ale
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:35 am

Lusitan wrote:
wrote:
Lusitan wrote:

About the "understanding" and the "integration", why should someone chose to become Portuguese (why should we allow it) if he isn't yet integrated?

what about economic reasons ?

as for the "why should we ALLOW it?"

VERY good question

100% justified as well

EVERYBODY asks it in the USA as well

VERY FEW people do in Germany

and when they do , they are quickly portrayed as being racists

Neutral

Economic reasons? Why should that be valid in a nationality change?
It's his own interest over that of the nation?
We already have enough people like that here (some in the government), don't need new ones.

@Lusitan

millions of Turks, Italians.... entered Germany after the second world war to help rebuild the economy, primarily to work in factories that were short of man-power

it was a win-win-deal

the guest-workers would earn more money than at home, and the German economy had the man-power it needed

the assumption had always been, that when the jobs were finished they would return

therefore, the German authorities never tried to actively INTEGRATE those "guest-workers"

neither, did the foreign workers try to integrate , and become German, themselves

BOTH parties assumed that guest-workers were "manual-ex-pats" that would eventually leave

in the end though, the Turks.... STAYED

having kids in Germany

who in turn who had kids again

we now have THIRD generation "Turks...", who bizarrely, often (but not always) are becoming MORE Turkish rather than German, since their Satellite TV allows them to live in their little Asian enclaves

+

the men often get their wives from rural Turkey

IMHO, ANYBODY who is THIRD generation is EASILY German, irrespective of faith, ethnic origin...

but MANY of them do NOT see it that way

the Alintop brothers are Ruhrpott-kids but play for TURKEY,

HSV teenager TORUN, who just got beaten up by RUUD, is born in Germany, but claims to be Turkish...

integration in Germany therefore does not really work all that well it seems

in AMERICA , this would be unthinkable

everybody wants to BECOME AMERICAN, even when there is no need to

eg: Heidi Klum now also has American citizenship, ditto Tommi Haas...

IMHO, playing for ANY NATIONAL-TEAM, should always be accompanied with a portion of PRIDE

you should be PROUD if Portugal/England/Germany... calls you up

and you should SHOW your pride

hence: SING the ANTHEM

---------------

good interview with CACAU cheers

the BRAZILIAN footballer, who moved to Germany at the age of 18, but got a German passport one or two years ago,

NOT in order to play for the MANNSCHAFT but because after about 10 years of living in the Vaterland, he feels it's his home

declares his PRIDE in being German

"Germany is MY country now. my HEART belongs to Germany 100%. I feel German completely, and , of course I sing the GERMAN ANTHEM, I don't even have to think about it"

cheers

"my entire Brazilian FAMILY now supports Germany, although I think that my Brazilian buddies still support Brazil"

his favourite BOOK is the BIBLE, which he reads in Portuguese and GERMAN

Yikes

wow, the boy IS dedicated

Cacau, is the perfect example of somebody who is PERFECTLY integrated BECAUSE he WANTS to be INTEGRATED

he has been living in Germany for 10 years and feels a PRIDE for his country of choice and that he is allowed to play for the MANNSCHAFT

Trochowski, Poldi... have been living LONGER in Germany yet still do NOT FEEL ANY loyalty

and zil, Tasci... were even BORN in Germany, yet do NOT display any pride

whereas Boateng, Aogo, Khedira were BORN in Germany + have ONE German parent

and do NOT feel it Grr

it's almost as IF : the longer you LIVE in Germany , the less PATRIOTIC you are, the less LOYALTY you feel towards the country

Evil or Very Mad

from now on (ie after his FABULOUS welt.interview)

CACAU is MY NEW

FAVOURITE GERMAN STRIKER

he MUST START EVERY GAME

even IF he does not score a SINGLE GOAL

cheers Ale


Last edited by on Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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EM Seleo e Seleco

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by EM Seleo e Seleco on Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:40 am

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Super Progress on Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:10 pm

Otto
Since you mention America and how everybody seems to want to be an American perhaps the problem isn't the fellas but rather something with Germany. It is an interesting question why some European nations have had such trouble integrating while America has done it so much easier.
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Lusitan

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:09 pm

@ Otto.

On your example, those guys are Turkish. Even if they're born in Germany, they are Turkish. I think there's nothing wrong with it, Just don't give them German passports because they do not want them. They are turkish and should be proud of it. And if they live in Germany, they're imigrants. That's how i see it. We have the same in France, so i can understand them.

I do not condemn someone for wanting to change his nationality, same way i don't condemn them for wanting to go back to their origins.

As for the US issue, it is totaly different. They feel it diferently, probably because the country is so youg. There you can be american-italian, american-irish even african-american. In European countries either you are or you aren't... Or you get double-nationality.

My POV of course.

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by pete1 on Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:05 pm

Super Madrid wrote:Otto
Since you mention America and how everybody seems to want to be an American perhaps the problem isn't the fellas but rather something with Germany. It is an interesting question why some European nations have had such trouble integrating while America has done it so much easier.

Excellent points.
What Cacau and the majority of immigrants in America have in common is that they made a conscious decision to become a member of a particular nation and therefore take on that membership with all the whistles and bells eg expression of national feelings.

The expression of national pride is a daily routine in America from kindergarten on eg the reciting of the pledge and the outburst into Star Spangeld Banner at every opportunity. That helps to form a national identity despite most immigrants(particular recent ones) continuing to orientate themselves along their original national connections and identities. And you never get an American. Most define themselves as Irish,-German,-Italian,-Polish,-Indian,- and so on American. But put the heat on the Nation and the prefix disappears.

I am not sure how things work in other countries (there IS a lot of flag waving here in Ireland and after a musical performance the Anthem is played with everybody standing and singing along.I'm never really sure if they're all really singing in Gaelic or if the intake of to many beverages makes for slurred words.) Anyhow.
WHAT I know is that there is no culture of flag waving until recently or expression of national pride in Germany. You might or might not feel that pride but you don't say it without being looked at in a funny way, again, until recently. I still feel slightly uncomfortable listening to a Stadium full of German fans howling along to the Anthem. That's because I grew up when those thing were not only not done but frowned upon. Younger generations will be more relaxed about it and rightly so.

Considering that it was not a done thing among natives I can understand that players who by their nature MUST define themselves as neither completely belonging to the one or the other Nation( how could they?) might have an issue with singing the Anthem. I have no problem with that. After all, by their very presence on the pitch they are saying: ,,I am wearing your colours, I want to play for you. '' Most of those players would have no problem to get in to ,,the other team''. Would they sing that Anthem, I wonder?
Jaysus, I've got a dry throat now. Might get a beverage myself. Ale
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Onur 1905

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Onur 1905 on Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:02 pm

Lusitan wrote:@ Otto.

On your example, those guys are Turkish. Even if they're born in Germany, they are Turkish. I think there's nothing wrong with it, Just don't give them German passports because they do not want them. They are turkish and should be proud of it. And if they live in Germany, they're imigrants. That's how i see it. We have the same in France, so i can understand them.

I do not condemn someone for wanting to change his nationality, same way i don't condemn them for wanting to go back to their origins.

As for the US issue, it is totaly different. They feel it diferently, probably because the country is so youg. There you can be american-italian, american-irish even african-american. In European countries either you are or you aren't... Or you get double-nationality.

My POV of course.

<Ale>
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:07 pm

Beckenbauer once AGAIN says that ALL players should sing the ANTHEM

irrespective of their "family background"

he points out that when he was playing in America, and the American anthem was played he SANG IT AS WELL

Lw then points out that when HE was manager in Turkey, he also sang THEIR anthem

then why the FUCK does the scarfwearer NOT insist ALL players sing the GERMAN anthem ?! scratch Yikes Doh

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

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    Current date/time is Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:36 pm