integration: should players sing national anthems

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L r dd

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by L r dd on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:00 pm

Black Magic wrote:
L r dd wrote:That's the problem when you have idiots who blast people who just speak the truth. I tell you Someone shouldn't play for a certain country and i am racist or stupid but this is the result. Balotelli should never play for Italy. Kalou for Holland would have been a disgrace. Cacau for Germany is also a joke. NK show that progressive thinking on certain issues is actually bullshit.


North Korea's best player (Jong T.S.) was born and raised in Japan. Yes, that same dude that showed such ferocious passion during DPR's national anthem.

Balotelli was raised by ITALIANS, not by Ghanaian parents in Italy, but by ITALIANS in ITALY.

I speak Arabic at home and wasn't raised in an Anglo way, would you not want me playing for England?

It is just bullshit. Balotelli is NOT Italian. The guy is NK in his blood he is total NK. Balotelli was raised in Italy yet he would not care for the Italian anthem but he might cry for the Ghanian one like the dude did NK. You don't seem to be getting it to me.

You speak Arabic at home? Well no i don't want you playing for England. You can play for Yemen or wherever else. People can be mixed nationalities but like having mroe than one club you can only truly be one nationality your real passion and belonging. You're not a self hating twat but that don't mean it's England that you feel the belonging for.

L r dd

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by L r dd on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:01 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Black Magic wrote:
L r dd wrote:That's the problem when you have idiots who blast people who just speak the truth. I tell you Someone shouldn't play for a certain country and i am racist or stupid but this is the result. Balotelli should never play for Italy. Kalou for Holland would have been a disgrace. Cacau for Germany is also a joke. NK show that progressive thinking on certain issues is actually bullshit.


North Korea's best player (Jong T.S.) was born and raised in Japan. Yes, that same dude that showed such ferocious passion during DPR's national anthem.

Balotelli was raised by ITALIANS, not by Ghanaian parents in Italy, but by ITALIANS in ITALY.

I speak Arabic at home and wasn't raised in an Anglo way, would you not want me playing for England?

Depends how dark your skin is. I think you're probably just white enough to make lrd's XI.

Half of England team is black i don't care. It's not about colour. Im one of the main people who want Heskey to play. Nani is my man at Man Utd but i hate blacks Doh
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Hlebagone

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Hlebagone on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:01 pm

How exactly do you know Balotelli's mindset LRD?
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:02 pm

L r dd wrote:
Black Magic wrote:
L r dd wrote:That's the problem when you have idiots who blast people who just speak the truth. I tell you Someone shouldn't play for a certain country and i am racist or stupid but this is the result. Balotelli should never play for Italy. Kalou for Holland would have been a disgrace. Cacau for Germany is also a joke. NK show that progressive thinking on certain issues is actually bullshit.


North Korea's best player (Jong T.S.) was born and raised in Japan. Yes, that same dude that showed such ferocious passion during DPR's national anthem.

Balotelli was raised by ITALIANS, not by Ghanaian parents in Italy, but by ITALIANS in ITALY.

I speak Arabic at home and wasn't raised in an Anglo way, would you not want me playing for England?

It is just bullshit. Balotelli is NOT Italian. The guy is NK in his blood he is total NK. Balotelli was raised in Italy yet he would not care for the Italian anthem but he might cry for the Ghanian one like the dude did NK. You don't seem to be getting it to me.

You speak Arabic at home? Well no i don't want you playing for England. You can play for Yemen or wherever else. People can be mixed nationalities but like having mroe than one club you can only truly be one nationality your real passion and belonging. You're not a self hating twat but that don't mean it's England that you feel the belonging for.

Balotelli couldn't give 2 shits about Ghana.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:04 pm

L r dd wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Black Magic wrote:
L r dd wrote:That's the problem when you have idiots who blast people who just speak the truth. I tell you Someone shouldn't play for a certain country and i am racist or stupid but this is the result. Balotelli should never play for Italy. Kalou for Holland would have been a disgrace. Cacau for Germany is also a joke. NK show that progressive thinking on certain issues is actually bullshit.


North Korea's best player (Jong T.S.) was born and raised in Japan. Yes, that same dude that showed such ferocious passion during DPR's national anthem.

Balotelli was raised by ITALIANS, not by Ghanaian parents in Italy, but by ITALIANS in ITALY.

I speak Arabic at home and wasn't raised in an Anglo way, would you not want me playing for England?

Depends how dark your skin is. I think you're probably just white enough to make lrd's XI.

Half of England team is black i don't care. It's not about colour. Im one of the main people who want Heskey to play. Nani is my man at Man Utd but i hate blacks Doh

If Balotelli wasn't black and was Italian looking i doubt you'd think it was wrong for him to play for Italy.
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DeLux

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by DeLux on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:05 pm

wrote:obviously, the Spanish do not have anything to sing

what about the Swiss

how MANY of them DID sing ?

they tend to have a very high proportion of ethnic non-mountain dwellers

The Turk didn't sing.

Black Magic

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Black Magic on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:06 pm

L r dd wrote:
Black Magic wrote:
L r dd wrote:That's the problem when you have idiots who blast people who just speak the truth. I tell you Someone shouldn't play for a certain country and i am racist or stupid but this is the result. Balotelli should never play for Italy. Kalou for Holland would have been a disgrace. Cacau for Germany is also a joke. NK show that progressive thinking on certain issues is actually bullshit.


North Korea's best player (Jong T.S.) was born and raised in Japan. Yes, that same dude that showed such ferocious passion during DPR's national anthem.

Balotelli was raised by ITALIANS, not by Ghanaian parents in Italy, but by ITALIANS in ITALY.

I speak Arabic at home and wasn't raised in an Anglo way, would you not want me playing for England?

It is just bullshit. Balotelli is NOT Italian. The guy is NK in his blood he is total NK. Balotelli was raised in Italy yet he would not care for the Italian anthem but he might cry for the Ghanian one like the dude did NK. You don't seem to be getting it to me.

You speak Arabic at home? Well no i don't want you playing for England. You can play for Yemen or wherever else. People can be mixed nationalities but like having mroe than one club you can only truly be one nationality your real passion and belonging. You're not a self hating twat but that don't mean it's England that you feel the belonging for.

I never speak English at home. I really should dislike you, but I don't. No

Black Magic

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Black Magic on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:08 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

Balotelli couldn't give 2 shits about Ghana.

His parents threw him away. I remember he was asked if he would ever consider playing for Ghana if Italy didn't select him; a defiant nay.

L r dd

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by L r dd on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:20 pm

Hlebagone wrote:How exactly do you know Balotelli's mindset LRD?

If Balotelli is Italian you are a fucking Belgian. It's nonsense. if Italy wasnt one of the worlds best teams he would be playing for Ghana.
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Hlebagone

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Hlebagone on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:24 pm

L r dd wrote:
Hlebagone wrote:How exactly do you know Balotelli's mindset LRD?

If Balotelli is Italian you are a fucking Belgian. It's nonsense. if Italy wasnt one of the worlds best teams he would be playing for Ghana.

I think its pretty simple. If he feels Italian, and wants to play for Italy; then he should be seen as Italian. Why should he play for a nation that he has no affinity to -> Ghana. The guy can probably barely remember living in Ghana...

Black Magic

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Black Magic on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:26 pm

Hlebagone wrote:
L r dd wrote:
Hlebagone wrote:How exactly do you know Balotelli's mindset LRD?

If Balotelli is Italian you are a fucking Belgian. It's nonsense. if Italy wasnt one of the worlds best teams he would be playing for Ghana.

I think its pretty simple. If he feels Italian, and wants to play for Italy; then he should be seen as Italian. Why should he play for a nation that he has no affinity to -> Ghana. The guy can probably barely remember living in Ghana...

He's never been to Ghana.
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Hlebagone

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Hlebagone on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:28 pm

Exactly Ale
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christmasborocooper

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:29 pm

Its almost like you're talking about a transsexual "if he wants to be a woman and feels like a women, then god damn it..let him be a woman".

L r dd

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by L r dd on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:32 pm

Hlebagone wrote:
L r dd wrote:
Hlebagone wrote:How exactly do you know Balotelli's mindset LRD?

If Balotelli is Italian you are a fucking Belgian. It's nonsense. if Italy wasnt one of the worlds best teams he would be playing for Ghana.

I think its pretty simple. If he feels Italian, and wants to play for Italy; then he should be seen as Italian. Why should he play for a nation that he has no affinity to -> Ghana. The guy can probably barely remember living in Ghana...

If you look at his relationship with Italian fans and their reaction to him there is not an affinity. His playing for Italy is a personal one like choosing England over Ireland. Except Ghana is not close and the whole cultures are totally different. I can see the day that we have all these non English speaking players who don't socialise playing for England and being defended by minor things in their favour. Probably some afgan muslims who were over here for 6 months getting a new arm or something at 12 so they qualify. One group of wags in their bikini's then another in burkini's. It's a dividing aspect that i am against.
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Hlebagone

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Hlebagone on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:33 pm

Sure Coops, why not.
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Hlebagone

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Hlebagone on Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:36 pm

L r dd wrote:
Hlebagone wrote:
L r dd wrote:
Hlebagone wrote:How exactly do you know Balotelli's mindset LRD?

If Balotelli is Italian you are a fucking Belgian. It's nonsense. if Italy wasnt one of the worlds best teams he would be playing for Ghana.

I think its pretty simple. If he feels Italian, and wants to play for Italy; then he should be seen as Italian. Why should he play for a nation that he has no affinity to -> Ghana. The guy can probably barely remember living in Ghana...

If you look at his relationship with Italian fans and their reaction to him there is not an affinity. His playing for Italy is a personal one like choosing England over Ireland. Except Ghana is not close and the whole cultures are totally different. I can see the day that we have all these non English speaking players who don't socialise playing for England and being defended by minor things in their favour. Probably some afgan muslims who were over here for 6 months getting a new arm or something at 12 so they qualify. One group of wags in their bikini's then another in burkini's. It's a dividing aspect that i am against.

He currently has no relationship with italian fans. Sure, he's pissed off Inter fans but that's not an issue of nationality, rather one of him beinf a twat.
Like I said, you don't know his mindset. I think that the issue that you highlight, which may be one, is porbably not relevant for Balotelli as he has lived in Italy for the most important part of his life, brought up as an Italian by an Italian family, speaks Italian and wants to play for Italy. Therefore, this isnt a dividing cultural issue.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:26 pm

Balotelli was born in Italy aswell.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by mongrel hawk on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:28 pm

borocooper wrote:Its almost like you're talking about a transsexual "if he wants to be a woman and feels like a women, then god damn it..let him be a woman".

so what? that's exactly the point.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by mongrel hawk on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:32 pm

by the way, I don't know one single son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of an immigrant in Brazil that would support his/her ancestor's nation over Brazil, even the japs and koreans.

they all feel brazilian. some of them have their ancestors' nation as a second team, but that's all.

by what I read here, there are many immigrants in Europe who would support their ancestors' nation over their own nation.
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Lusitan

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:37 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:by the way, I don't know one single son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of an immigrant in Brazil that would support his/her ancestor's nation over Brazil, even the japs and koreans.

they all feel brazilian. some of them have their ancestors' nation as a second team, but that's all.

by what I read here, there are many immigrants in Europe who would support their ancestors' nation over their own nation.

What's not to like in Brasil? It's full of "gostosinhas" Yay , you know how to party, any moment is good for party, the country is great. If i go live in Brasil, i'm sure i'll be divided. Really, what's not to like?
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:43 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:by the way, I don't know one single son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of an immigrant in Brazil that would support his/her ancestor's nation over Brazil, even the japs and koreans.

they all feel brazilian. some of them have their ancestors' nation as a second team, but that's all.

.

that is how it SHOULD be

Ale

if you EMMIGRATE to a country

like the Turks effectively did to Germany

and the Portuguese to France

they SHOULD WANT to become part of that SOCIETY

ie

FULL MEMBERS

which you can only do when you become a citizen, get your passport, "hopefully" actively influence society by VOTING, and joining all the institutions, bodies, parties, clubs... that are on offer

OTHERWISE

you are an EXPAT

and will either be part of a PRIVILEGED group

(like generations of expat Brits in HK, for instance)

or

an UNDERCLASS

like the MANY Turks in Germany

GOD knows why you would want the latter option scratch

I guess the discussion is really between supermadrid on the one hand and onur/lusitan on the other
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Lusitan

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Lusitan on Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:51 pm

I don't think every imigrant should take nationality of the country where they go to.
I do believe they should respect it entirely, live by their rules while there and only if he feels more related to that country than his own he should try to change nationality.
Once he achieves that he should forget about his old country's traditions and embrace his new country's. Not start imposing his old ways. It is he who is asking for a new culture, not the other way around.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by mongrel hawk on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:10 pm

otto, maybe some of those countries do not treat the immigrants well enough; maybe they do not treat them as if they were actually a member of that new nation. so how can they feel a member if they are not treated as such?

judging by what I see here, the level of racism and prejudice in Europe is too high.
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Isco Benny

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:38 pm

wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:by the way, I don't know one single son/daughter or grandson/granddaughter of an immigrant in Brazil that would support his/her ancestor's nation over Brazil, even the japs and koreans.

they all feel brazilian. some of them have their ancestors' nation as a second team, but that's all.

.

that is how it SHOULD be

Ale

if you EMMIGRATE to a country

like the Turks effectively did to Germany

and the Portuguese to France

they SHOULD WANT to become part of that SOCIETY

ie

FULL MEMBERS

which you can only do when you become a citizen, get your passport, "hopefully" actively influence society by VOTING, and joining all the institutions, bodies, parties, clubs... that are on offer

OTHERWISE

you are an EXPAT

and will either be part of a PRIVILEGED group

(like generations of expat Brits in HK, for instance)

or

an UNDERCLASS

like the MANY Turks in Germany

GOD knows why you would want the latter option scratch

I guess the discussion is really between supermadrid on the one hand and onur/lusitan on the other

Germans are not allowed to have dual citizenship.

In many countries, you are allowed to do so.

The Turks in Germany probably do not want to renounce their Turkish nationality.

Do you support the German stance Otto? I think I already know the answer to this one
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Barrilete

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Barrilete on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:43 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:otto, maybe some of those countries do not treat the immigrants well enough; maybe they do not treat them as if they were actually a member of that new nation. so how can they feel a member if they are not treated as such?

judging by what I see here, the level of racism and prejudice in Europe is too high.

ok

L r dd

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by L r dd on Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:45 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:otto, maybe some of those countries do not treat the immigrants well enough; maybe they do not treat them as if they were actually a member of that new nation. so how can they feel a member if they are not treated as such?

judging by what I see here, the level of racism and prejudice in Europe is too high.

Maybe that is part of it. But what is their motivation when they go to Brazil? Here most people come for jobs or benefits they have no love for anything the country has. To embrace people like this is not simple.
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:28 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:otto, maybe some of those countries do not treat the immigrants well enough; maybe they do not treat them as if they were actually a member of that new nation. so how can they feel a member if they are not treated as such?

judging by what I see here, the level of racism and prejudice in Europe is too high.

yes and no

whereas the USA are, almost by definition, an IMMIGRANT society, where everybody is from somewhere else

this does not apply to most European countries, which are therefore more "suspcious" of newcomers

in the USA a college is proud of its heritage when its 100 years old

Very Happy

in European city centres , ordinary people can live in houses that date back to the middle-ages

customs, traditions, habits, DOMINANT religions... are already well-established

which means that either you make a concerted effort to fit in, or you are an outsider

well, that's the theory

and it's PARTLY true in practise as well, but only partly

Germany, for instance, has NEVER thought of itsself as being an immigration country at all, even if it now is in reality

in turn , many of the people coming to Germany did so because of work, but not specifically to become GERMAN, or because they were chasing a GERMAN DREAM

the result is a bit of a FUDGE

BUT

the ONUS on fitting in should always lie with those people moving TO a country

when you read comments by Onur above, you quickly realise that the reason why so few Turks are FULLY integrated is NOT that Germans make it so difficult, but that the TUrks think of themselves as TURKS, and are proud of it

hence, the not-singing of national anthems

incidentally, it's VERY easy to become part of German society , if you really WANT to

the current Secretary for Health, a Liberal, is a former Vietnamese orphan , who grew up in Germany

his ethnic heritage did not cause the slightest ripples, when he was appointed

NOBODY cares about it or even discusses it

the future PM of the Conservatives in Lower Saxony has a SCOTTISH name and wears a gilt for certain official functions, and NOBODY thinks it's a problem

the Leader of the GREEN party is an ethnic TURK

and if you want to push the TOLERANCE card, the mayors of Hamburg and Berlin are openly gay, so is the Foreign Secretary, who takes his boy-friend to CONSERVATIVE countries like Japan or the Middle East, again, without causing any huge discussions

when Cacau , who is really a BRAZILIAN footballer, was called up to play for Germany, VIRTUALLY nobody complained anywhere

and 95% of the German media are largely sympathetic when Khedira, Trochowski... REFUSE to sing the anthem

FITTING IN for a non-ethnic-German German is VERY , VERY easy

one of the leading WRITERS in Berlin is a Russian called Kaminer, who was immediately embraced by readers and the media

and even the BIG companies are opening up and increasingly appoint foreigners to boards

I believe BASF just appointed a Nederlander as new CEO

there are HUGE differences in how certain ethnic groups ACTIVELY try to become a part of German society

the East Europeans tend to be VERY good

I know Ukrainians who moved here a few years back with LITTLE German, but not only did they learn German VERY FAST, but also English AT THE SAME TIME

meanwhile, the third generation TUrks often speak a kind of German they could NEVER use in a proper job

they often live in their own universe

two cashiers at my local German chain supermarket are ethnic Turks, who speak decent German, but communicate with each other , in the shop, in front of ALL German customers, in TURKISH

UNBELIEVABLE

NOBODY says anything, not even the shop managers

part of the "lack of integration-problem" in Germany is that people are TOO tolerant

it is just NOT in the interest of the immigrants/ethnic non-Germans to NOT integrate

the job market will not be kind to you, and you will never feel fully at home

I bet, todo, that your sis, already speaks BETTER German than many "Turks" born in Germany

that tells you all

and it has nothing to do with German racism

wahre G
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Isco Benny

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:44 pm

Laugh

You are a card Otto.

Ralf Stegner has the right idea - if Germany allowed dual citizenship to it's Gastarbeiter, it may find less resistance.

I don't see how being denied this right in today's multicultural society can be spun as being positive.

I have dual citizenship and have a strong affinity and connection to both countries.

Had the UK denied me the right to dual nationality and forced me to renounce my Hungarian citizenship, I would certainly have far less affection for the country.

What is the reason for Germany adopting this stance?
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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by  on Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:55 pm

bernd

would you call a THIRD GENERATION ethnic Turk still a GASTARBEITER ?

I would not

Yikes

what is there still to chose ?

neither he, nor his kids or grand-kids will RETURN to the country of their ancestors

GET REAL

you say you are now in the US and A, right ?

well

my bro+wife now live in California

sis-in-law MOVED to America at the age of THREE

in other words, she is an American POLDI

she is of non-European ethnic background, and this is still a BIG influence in her family in terms of family traditions, food, culture, religions...

still

she would ALWAYS consider herself to be first and foremost

AMERICAN

in fact, she is also a proud TEXAN Laugh

as far as I understand she only has ONE PASSPORT

an American one

and this, in no way, consitutes a problem for her

it's merely a travel document anyway

ask your American buddies now whether they are allowed to have TWO passports as ADULTS

I very much doubt it

I honestly do not get what your obsession with dual citizenship is

feel free to explain it, old boy
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Isco Benny

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Re: integration: should players sing national anthems

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:04 am

You are incorrect old boy - plenty of American adults have dual citizenship.

If you need me to explain to you why an individual who - for whatever reason be it through a parent, parents, or via migration - is of mixed lineage would want to maintain their roots, then I'm very surprised.

What if you had migrated to the UK for good for work, and you had children who were then forced to make a choice when they reached the age of 23? Obviously for integration purposes into their new country, it would make sense to take on British citizenship yes? But only at the expense of giving up German citizenship.

Exactly how would you and your family feel about the British forcing this choice upon you? As a staunch German, I imagine you wouldn't feel too chuffed.

Think about it Laughing Ale

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