South America vs. Europe

Share

110%

Number of posts : 8978
Age : 43
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:03 pm

abundance wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:moreover, we've already won this battle.

4 WCs in South America, around 10 WCs in Europe, many more teams from Europe, and the number of titles are the same.
mmh does not compute.
we are not discussing wheter Conmebol hosts a couple or three awesome footballing nations, are we? ;-)
the issue is whether the also runs are so good that more than half of its members deserve to take a ride in the cup

I think what he is saying is that Brazil should be allowed to send 4 teams to the world cup, and argentina maybe 2. That would keep everyone happy and the best players would be there, without any of that peruvian shite FFS Very Happy
avatar
bluenine

Number of posts : 22998
Age : 43
Supports : www.footballspeak.com
Favourite Player : Zanetti
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by bluenine on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:14 pm

110% wrote:
abundance wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:moreover, we've already won this battle.

4 WCs in South America, around 10 WCs in Europe, many more teams from Europe, and the number of titles are the same.
mmh does not compute.
we are not discussing wheter Conmebol hosts a couple or three awesome footballing nations, are we? ;-)
the issue is whether the also runs are so good that more than half of its members deserve to take a ride in the cup

I think what he is saying is that Brazil should be allowed to send 4 teams to the world cup, and argentina maybe 2. That would keep everyone happy and the best players would be there, without any of that peruvian shite FFS Very Happy
lol!

Jokes apart, personally I believe that the current allocation system is as good as any, specially concerning Europe & South America. The 5 south american nations are showing just why they deserve to be here.

Glad to see some decent Asian performances too. AFC should throw Australia out (not that I have anything against the Aussies, but they are not really Asians!)... If Asia continues to improve, soon FIFA may have to consider another spot for them....

My suggestion as the way forward, is to have more "mixed" spots. Take out 20% of the World Cup spots, and have a common "best losers" group across continents... like what "Inter-Toto" did for UEFA Cup.... that might be fun to watch...

110%

Number of posts : 8978
Age : 43
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:19 pm

ooh, I like that idea, they could go to the world cup host nation to do it
avatar
bluenine

Number of posts : 22998
Age : 43
Supports : www.footballspeak.com
Favourite Player : Zanetti
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by bluenine on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:20 pm

110% wrote:ooh, I like that idea, they could go to the world cup host nation to do it

Instead of that stupid "friendly" confed cup that no one cares about Ale
avatar
Hlebagone

Number of posts : 6086
Age : 28
Registration date : 2007-03-17

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Hlebagone on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:26 pm

Regarding Bluenines point, I think one team from Oceana is probably enough.
At the same time though, its a bit silly looking only at how teams perform. The brilliance of a World Cup is the different cultures, footballing or otherwise that mix. On performances so far, maybe that number of places for African teams should be cut. But that would obviosuly be ridiculous. (It also doesnt help how the best African team didnt manage to qualify).
avatar
fcb

Number of posts : 40471
Age : 106
Supports : FC Barcelona
Registration date : 2006-08-11

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by fcb on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:29 pm

@bluenine: they only just added Australi to Asia, to make it more competitive. Otherwise they were walking through their qualification group winning games 8-0 and then just had to win a playoff. Now the Oceania group is dominated by NZ (but more like 3-0 or 4-0) and they have it tough to get through their qualifier against an Asian team. I don't think we'll see them in every World Cup, this time they got Bahrain who IIRC shocked Saudi Arabia. Not every year will we see weak teams like NKorea and NZ coming from that sector of qualifying. Iran and Saudi are the heavyweights and will qualify more often.
avatar
bluenine

Number of posts : 22998
Age : 43
Supports : www.footballspeak.com
Favourite Player : Zanetti
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by bluenine on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:35 pm

kas wrote:@bluenine: they only just added Australi to Asia, to make it more competitive. Otherwise they were walking through their qualification group winning games 8-0 and then just had to win a playoff. Now the Oceania group is dominated by NZ (but more like 3-0 or 4-0) and they have it tough to get through their qualifier against an Asian team. I don't think we'll see them in every World Cup, this time they got Bahrain who IIRC shocked Saudi Arabia. Not every year will we see weak teams like NKorea and NZ coming from that sector of qualifying. Iran and Saudi are the heavyweights and will qualify more often.

I know... but IMO either they should either merge Oceania with AFC or kick Australia out... this is just not right, what if Peru wants to join AFC tomorrow? Razz

Anyways, just expanding on the idea above:

Current System:

Hosts = 1
Europe = 13
S America = 4.5
Asia = 4.5
Africa = 5
N America = 3.5
Oceania = 0.5

Suggested New System:

Hosts = 1
Europe = 11 + 4 Qualifiers
S America = 4 + 2 Qualifiers
Asia = 3 + 2 Qualifiers
Africa = 4 + 2 Qualifiers
N America = 3 + 1 Qualifier
Oceania = 0 + 1 Qualifier

12 Qualifiers get drawn into 3 groups of 4, play each other once, and top 2 from each group qualify... that would be fun Ale

110%

Number of posts : 8978
Age : 43
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:39 pm

the idea is right but don't think we want 15 european teams in the world cup

it should be more of an opportunity for asian and african teams
avatar
mongrel hawk

Number of posts : 4757
Age : 37
Supports : Corinthians
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:38 am

@abundance

I don't think we should have one more spot. I think we should have half a spot more. Instead of 4.5, a straight 5. (have a look at blue's post).



BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
debaser wrote:Direct percentages out of the number who started is unfair too though. There's 13 Euro teams so 5 are guaranteed not to make QF whatever happens!

Have to do #SA teams/5 and #euro teams/8 to get the fairest comparison

We could just look at who makes the round of 16.

Debaser, that wouldn't be fair either, cause we would then be considering only the best 8 out of 13 and not considering the 5 worst (if all the qualified teams were to be included in such group of 8 while some that didn't were not). In other words: what 8 teams to choose among the 13 to measure? It should not be the best 8, nor the worst 8.

Since we are playing with the idea, a good way to measure would be the percentage of teams of the continent that do not qualify to the 2nd round. how about that? Wink
avatar
debaser

Number of posts : 22064
Age : 32
Supports : Aston Villa and Shrewsbury Town
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by debaser on Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:48 am

I think % is too blunt a measure.

Perhaps the best and fairest way would be a sort of chi-squared test. Observed vs expected.

there are 13/32 European teams in competition, so if it was completely random you expect 6.5 to make the last 16.

likewise 5/32 SA teams, with random selection you would expect 2.5 to make the last 16.

We take the actually number who qualify from each and see how it varies from the number you'd expect by random.
avatar
S4P

Number of posts : 14358
Age : 37
Supports : Chelsea
Registration date : 2007-03-24

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by S4P on Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:57 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
S4P wrote:Let's see how many South American teams make the QF and how many European teams make the QF before we start making a comparison.
Everyone saw the ease at which Germany brushed aside Australia, with Australia playing at 100% intensity from the start. Imagine if Germany had been playing the Inca warriors with all them corrupt fuckos We would have witnessed the biggest thrashing of all time.

If less than 4 South American teams make it, there could be an argument for reducing the number of South American teams qualifying.

yeh, let's see the percentage of SA teams that reach the quarters and of Euro teams that reach the quarters, in relation the the ones that started the competition. We only got 5 teams, so we can't work with absolute numbers.

Half of your teams qualify and yet you're asking for more places. If you only get 2 of the 8 quarter-finalists, there's an argument to take a spot away from South America.

Imagine shit like Peru in the World Cup. Shocked At least Greece know how to defend.
avatar
Fey

Number of posts : 35347
Supports : Feyenoord and Manchester United
Favourite Player : ??#$ Error, John Guidetti, Jordy Clasie
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Fri Jun 18, 2010 10:52 pm

Shocked

Europe is getting hammered so far!!

Not everyone is surrendering though, where the lights of others fade into oblivion, Holland, the sun of the solar system called europe, is still sparkling like a diamond. A beacon of hope in these dark days.

The faith of Europe is now in the hands of the motherfucking Dutch affraid
avatar
Puro

Number of posts : 10676
Registration date : 2006-09-12

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Puro on Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:17 pm

Fey wrote:Shocked

Europe is getting hammered so far!!

Not everyone is surrendering though, where the lights of others fade into oblivion, Holland, the sun of the solar system called europe, is still sparkling like a diamond. A beacon of hope in these dark days.

The faith of Europe is now in the hands of the motherfucking Dutch affraid

NO SURPRISE THERE! mes amis!

Your teams are overrated. Even them Asians are beginning to not believe the hype imposed on them regarding euro teams. TRUE FUCKING STORY!
avatar
mongrel hawk

Number of posts : 4757
Age : 37
Supports : Corinthians
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by mongrel hawk on Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:04 pm

debaser wrote:I think % is too blunt a measure.

Perhaps the best and fairest way would be a sort of chi-squared test. Observed vs expected.

there are 13/32 European teams in competition, so if it was completely random you expect 6.5 to make the last 16.

likewise 5/32 SA teams, with random selection you would expect 2.5 to make the last 16.

We take the actually number who qualify from each and see how it varies from the number you'd expect by random.

good idea.
avatar
Puro

Number of posts : 10676
Registration date : 2006-09-12

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Puro on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:13 am

I think America must unite. If Europe gets to send 13 teams to the world cup even though they only have roughly twenty competitive teams out of 50 something, then America shall do the same, unite and have ten teams in the world cup as well.

For every San Marino, Faroe Islands, Andorra, England, Azerbaijan...etc etc America can counter with Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, Barbados, Surinam, Guyana...

Let's do the same bullshite that Europe does to get as many teams in the world cup, spread it all out in eight or nine groups in the world cup qualifiers. Just like their bullshite qualifiers, America can counter with eight or nine top seeds, winner of the group goes to the world cup. That way we're even stevens, 10 spots for America and 10 for Europe.

The groups will look very 'european'. For instance top seed Brasil, Guatemala, Barbados, Turks and Caicos. Another group would be Mxico, Venezuela, Cuba, Dominica. Let's just do the same bullshite that them euros do with them world cup qualifiers.

Let's see then who gets to send more teams to the quarterfinals every world cup after CONMEBOL and UEFA start a world cup with the same number of participants.
avatar
COTR

Number of posts : 26580
Age : 33
Supports : Liverp8-0l
Favourite Player : Xabier Alonso, Fabio Aurelio, Daniel Agger, Pepe Reina, Alberto Aquilani, Elano, Luis Suarez, Glen Johnson
Registration date : 2006-08-06

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by COTR on Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:28 am

Let's see your nine groups with six teams in each group Puro
avatar
Puro

Number of posts : 10676
Registration date : 2006-09-12

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Puro on Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:48 pm

After the latest Paraguay win, I've got Amrica STILL undefeated in the WC after 30 matches or so.

Well, an American team in Honduras lost to another American side in Chile.
avatar
Fey

Number of posts : 35347
Supports : Feyenoord and Manchester United
Favourite Player : ??#$ Error, John Guidetti, Jordy Clasie
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:13 pm

South America is doing well, but all of them are nations with a big EUROPEAN decent or African. Countries with massive native South-American people are not here and suck massivly. So to say South AMerica is better..depends how you look at it I guess.
avatar
Kimbo

Number of posts : 38170
Registration date : 2006-08-06

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:17 pm

Good point fey.
avatar
mongrel hawk

Number of posts : 4757
Age : 37
Supports : Corinthians
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by mongrel hawk on Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:59 pm

Kimbo wrote:Good point fey.

Doh
avatar
Kimbo

Number of posts : 38170
Registration date : 2006-08-06

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:Good point fey.

Doh

Puro is an Incan-supremacist that hates whitey, there's no way he should be allowed to take credit for this.
avatar
Puro

Number of posts : 10676
Registration date : 2006-09-12

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Puro on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:06 pm

Fey wrote:South America is doing well, but all of them are nations with a big EUROPEAN decent or African. Countries with massive native South-American people are not here and suck massivly. So to say South AMerica is better..depends how you look at it I guess.

Amrica is the melting pot on Earth. EVEN the 'natives' arrived from elsewhere. The Americanos are the entire planet's genes, that's why WE ARE THE BEST!

The best cuisine, the most beautiful women in the world, the best football played in the world etc. etc. etc...all because we Americanos are a fusion of the entire planet.

Todo and Barrilete KNOW what I'm talking about. Biggrin <Ale>

L r dd

Number of posts : 12451
Age : 30
Registration date : 2008-12-22

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by L r dd on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:12 pm

Alberto wrote:
Fey wrote:South America is doing well, but all of them are nations with a big EUROPEAN decent or African. Countries with massive native South-American people are not here and suck massivly. So to say South AMerica is better..depends how you look at it I guess.

Amrica is the melting pot on Earth. EVEN the 'natives' arrived from elsewhere. The Americanos are the entire planet's genes, that's why WE ARE THE BEST!

The best cuisine, the most beautiful women in the world, the best football played in the world etc. etc. etc...all because we Americanos are a fusion of the entire planet.

Todo and Barrilete KNOW what I'm talking about. Biggrin <Ale>

Yet you'd even abandon you're vendetta against England to nail some of our ladies Biggrin <Ale>
avatar
S4P

Number of posts : 14358
Age : 37
Supports : Chelsea
Registration date : 2007-03-24

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by S4P on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:27 pm

Alberto wrote:For every San Marino, Faroe Islands, Andorra, England, Azerbaijan...etc etc America can counter with Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, Barbados, Surinam, Guyana...

When agendas get embarassing. lol!

We have 20 competitive teams. How many do the Americas have? In North America you have the USA (and Mexico if you include them as North America). In South America you have Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Paraguay and maybe Ecuador. So 8 in total, yet you deserve 10 places? Rolling Eyes
avatar
DD

Number of posts : 10721
Age : 37
Supports : NEC
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by DD on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:45 pm

S4P wrote:
Alberto wrote:For every San Marino, Faroe Islands, Andorra, England, Azerbaijan...etc etc America can counter with Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, Barbados, Surinam, Guyana...

When agendas get embarassing. lol!

We have 20 competitive teams. How many do the Americas have? In North America you have the USA (and Mexico if you include them as North America). In South America you have Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Paraguay and maybe Ecuador. So 8 in total, yet you deserve 10 places? Rolling Eyes
Not only that, but have one of highlighted names not finished in the bottom of every qualifying group ever?
I'm sure that Guadeloupe, Dominica, Stkitts, Aruba, Ned. Antilles, Puerto Rico, Montserrat and couple of other islands in Concacaf pretty much finish last each time too.
If I mentioned those names as proof that Concacaf doesn't have enough places you would laugh in my face too, and rightly so.


Last edited by DD on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
S4P

Number of posts : 14358
Age : 37
Supports : Chelsea
Registration date : 2007-03-24

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by S4P on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:53 pm

2010 Qualifying:

San Marino - Played 10 Won 0
Faroe Islands - Played 10 Won 1
Andorra - Played 10 Won 0
Azerbeijan - Played 10 Won 1
England - Played 10 Won 9

Only Suriname from the North Americans made it past the 2nd round of qualifying.

I stand corrected: When agendas get very embarassing lol!
avatar
Pierre Littbarski

Number of posts : 12424
Age : 107
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:03 pm

Europe is gay - roll on Conmebol WC qualifiers and Copa America 2011 in Argentina cheers
avatar
Barrilete

Number of posts : 2336
Age : 31
Supports : Club Atltico Boca Juniors
Favourite Player : Maxi Lopez, aka, TWD (The White Drogba)
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Barrilete on Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:16 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Europe is gay - roll on Conmebol WC qualifiers and Copa America 2011 in Argentina cheers

ok
avatar
mongrel hawk

Number of posts : 4757
Age : 37
Supports : Corinthians
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by mongrel hawk on Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:19 pm

S4P wrote:
Alberto wrote:For every San Marino, Faroe Islands, Andorra, England, Azerbaijan...etc etc America can counter with Turks and Caicos, Virgin Islands, Barbados, Surinam, Guyana...

When agendas get embarassing. lol!

We have 20 competitive teams. How many do the Americas have? In North America you have the USA (and Mexico if you include them as North America). In South America you have Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Paraguay and maybe Ecuador. So 8 in total, yet you deserve 10 places? Rolling Eyes

which 20? make a list and we'll see.

there are 13 euro teams in this wc, around 4 or 5 are horrible, bellow the line of poverty.
avatar
debaser

Number of posts : 22064
Age : 32
Supports : Aston Villa and Shrewsbury Town
Registration date : 2006-08-08

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by debaser on Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:28 pm

Italy, France, Spain, Netherlands, Ireland, Germany, England, Sweden, Turkey, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Belgium, Denmark, Portugal, Serbia (as Yugoslavia), Ukraine, Poland, Austria, Czechs.

Have all made the last 8 in the time since a SA team other than Argentina/Brazil did..

So that's probably roughly the top 20 (although looking further you'd have to include Russia and Hungary).

Sponsored content

Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Sponsored content


    Current date/time is Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:22 am