South America vs. Europe

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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:41 pm

Fey wrote:Im refusing to surrender though!

Infact Todo...you can still sign the unconditional surrender though.

Otherwise, this will be you and Puro in a few weeks




Sad

We dont want that!

FFS Todo...I told you...surrender now!!
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Kimbo

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Kimbo on Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:09 pm

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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:12 pm

Looks like the massive armada of European ships is just too much for the natives in the end. The Bismarck refuses to sink in SA this time...

And Holland still have this boat!




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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Jaime on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:22 pm

Ok S. America v Europe. Fine.

Germany beating Brazil in that manner is a bigger victory.

Team Football > Team Progress.

Ale
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:25 pm

That was never a contest in my eyes tbh. I consider progressive people as muslim fundamentalists, they are just lost cases.

There is only one team in football..#teamfootball.
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Kimbo

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Kimbo on Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:31 pm

Brazil only played 2 European teams, last night, and the Croatia game, which wasn't so great either. This thread needs to be closed.
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:24 am

Poor Todo and Puro..

Again they celebrated a bit before the ending. Will they ever recover from this?

I think the question has been forever answered now...neutral soil was gone, now SA soil as well.

Again its the smaller teams from SA that made a bigger impression then the big guns.

Nontheless, I lost count, but in score SA was ahead. So I suggest Concacaf and Conmebol to merge and give them 7 or 8 spots or so.
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S4P

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by S4P on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:38 am

Two World Cups in a row the Samericans have been waving their dicks around in the group stages and early knockout rounds, only to suffer devastating blows in the latter rounds. A mascherano challenge away from a 3rd straight all European final (hopefully Barca have finally realised that he's a far better holding midfielder than Biscuits). The Brits introduced football to Brazil but the Germans took it away in a typically efficient manner Ale
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blutgraetsche

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:21 am

Veni, vedi, vici!

It's funny but today I had to think about todo telling me in 2006 how Germany missed their golden chance to win the WC on home soil and how they could forget about the next two WCs, as both were going to be played outside of the European continent, where no European team "had a chance", particularly in South America.

Spain won in South Africa and then came the Germans. Those bloody, pesky Germans. And how they won it....
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:48 pm

Worldcup=Euros + Argentina and Brazil Chile and Colombia!

Tactically Europe is so far ahead these days..surely its a money problem. Sao Paulo has more people then Holland ffs!
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blutgraetsche

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:26 pm

The interesting thing was how much the South American giants Brazil and Argentina have fallen behind the smaller countries like Colombia and Chile, not just tactically. Even Argentina were rather anachronistic tactically - have 9 men behind the ball and close the gaps and pass it / hoof it to the messiah up front who has no defensive duties whatsoever, staying up front all the time and hope for some magic. Difficult to break down, sure, but not exactly a winning strategy. Argentina were blessed with a very easy group, schedule (all matches in the cool South) and knock-out stages up to the semis.

If nothing changes in South America, Europe will not just continue to dominate, the other South American countries may challenge the status quo on the continent, too.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:34 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:The interesting thing was how much the South American giants Brazil and Argentina have fallen behind the smaller countries like Colombia and Chile, not just tactically. Even Argentina were rather anachronistic tactically - have 9 men behind the ball and close the gaps and pass it / hoof it to the messiah up front who has no defensive duties whatsoever, staying up front all the time and hope for some magic. Difficult to break down, sure, but not exactly a winning strategy. Argentina were blessed with a very easy group, schedule (all matches in the cool South) and knock-out stages up to the semis.

If nothing changes in South America, Europe will not just continue to dominate, the other South American countries may challenge the status quo on the continent, too.

ok

Both sides not producing the talent they once did. Under Bielsa and Pekerman Argentina had midfields which would control the game. Now they have such a weak midfield that they simply have to play defensive - counter attacking football.
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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Jaime on Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:43 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:The interesting thing was how much the South American giants Brazil and Argentina have fallen behind the smaller countries like Colombia and Chile, not just tactically. Even Argentina were rather anachronistic tactically - have 9 men behind the ball and close the gaps and pass it / hoof it to the messiah up front who has no defensive duties whatsoever, staying up front all the time and hope for some magic. Difficult to break down, sure, but not exactly a winning strategy. Argentina were blessed with a very easy group, schedule (all matches in the cool South) and knock-out stages up to the semis.

If nothing changes in South America, Europe will not just continue to dominate, the other South American countries may challenge the status quo on the continent, too.

ok

Both sides not producing the talent they once did. Under Bielsa and Pekerman Argentina had midfields which would control the game. Now they have such a weak midfield that they simply have to play defensive - counter attacking football.

But it's not that Argentina are not producing the talent. I think there are more talented midfielders that Sabella could have taken but he preferred others. Some of my Argie friends were quite critical of some of his selections for that very reason.
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:12 pm

After the Brazil game, Maxwell said himself they are tactically behind

http://nos.nl/l/674247

Nice guy!
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blutgraetsche

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:50 pm

It's not just about the players, but how to use them. Even if they had 5 creative midfielders of sufficient class, would they use them and how?

I think South American football that has been traditionally more focused on individualism instead of the collective will suffer in the long run, especially since the top European nations now have individualists themselves who are just as good, if not better. In modern football, even a mediocre team can make life pretty difficult for an individually better one if the former is well organised. At the very top level, a high degree of organisation, on and off the ball, is a necessity. Individualists are still there, they still make the difference and they are still in high demand, but only if they are willing to put their talent in the context of the collective, the team.

It's a team sport and traditionally, the European powers understood this better than the South American ones, with a few exceptions. Back when the individual class of South Americans was considerably higher than the European (on average), they could get away with it. But those times are truly over and won't come back. The professionalism is simply on a too high level now.

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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:28 am

Jaime wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:The interesting thing was how much the South American giants Brazil and Argentina have fallen behind the smaller countries like Colombia and Chile, not just tactically. Even Argentina were rather anachronistic tactically - have 9 men behind the ball and close the gaps and pass it / hoof it to the messiah up front who has no defensive duties whatsoever, staying up front all the time and hope for some magic. Difficult to break down, sure, but not exactly a winning strategy. Argentina were blessed with a very easy group, schedule (all matches in the cool South) and knock-out stages up to the semis.

If nothing changes in South America, Europe will not just continue to dominate, the other South American countries may challenge the status quo on the continent, too.

ok

Both sides not producing the talent they once did. Under Bielsa and Pekerman Argentina had midfields which would control the game. Now they have such a weak midfield that they simply have to play defensive - counter attacking football.

But it's not that Argentina are not producing the talent. I think there are more talented midfielders that Sabella could have taken but he preferred others. Some of my Argie friends were quite critical of some of his selections for that very reason.

Do you know which players they are referring to? Pastore? Banega?
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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:56 am

They also have to try & keep their players at home for longer.
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messiah

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by messiah on Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:28 pm

Dunga has been confirmed as the next brazil coach, jesus he is even more progressive than Big phil
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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Jaime on Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:01 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Jaime wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:The interesting thing was how much the South American giants Brazil and Argentina have fallen behind the smaller countries like Colombia and Chile, not just tactically. Even Argentina were rather anachronistic tactically - have 9 men behind the ball and close the gaps and pass it / hoof it to the messiah up front who has no defensive duties whatsoever, staying up front all the time and hope for some magic. Difficult to break down, sure, but not exactly a winning strategy. Argentina were blessed with a very easy group, schedule (all matches in the cool South) and knock-out stages up to the semis.

If nothing changes in South America, Europe will not just continue to dominate, the other South American countries may challenge the status quo on the continent, too.

ok

Both sides not producing the talent they once did. Under Bielsa and Pekerman Argentina had midfields which would control the game. Now they have such a weak midfield that they simply have to play defensive - counter attacking football.

But it's not that Argentina are not producing the talent. I think there are more talented midfielders that Sabella could have taken but he preferred others. Some of my Argie friends were quite critical of some of his selections for that very reason.

Do you know which players they are referring to? Pastore? Banega?

No they were mainly referring to players based in Argentina. Romagnoli, Lanzini, Allione, Alan Ruiz...they even preferred to see Riquelme back in the team and most of them are River fans that hate Boca.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:27 pm

South America's World Cup lessons

POSTED BY TIM VICKERY

As the dust settles, we can now reflect on the first ever European success in a South American World Cup -- in which, the champions Germany thrashed hosts Brazil and overcame Argentina on their own continent, on their march to the title.

It is the third consecutive European World Cup win, and had Holland won the penalty shootout against Argentina it would have been the third consecutive all-European final.

There is plenty, then, for South America to think about.

After 20 tournaments, Europe now has 11 wins to South America's nine. Europe was ahead 2-1 after 1938; since then, the continent did not take the lead until Spain's victory four years ago in the first African World Cup.

From one perspective, though, South America has never been stronger. The continent can now boast impressive strength in depth. In the past two World Cups, from a total of 11 teams, only one has failed to qualify for the knock out stage -- Ecuador this time.

The Ecuadorians can consider themselves unfortunate. Their crucial game always looked likely to be the opener against Switzerland. In the closing stages, with scores tied at 1-1, they looked by far the more likely winners -- even going into second-half stoppage time, when Michael Arroyo had a chance to snatch the three points. But he was caught in possession, and with Ecuador having lost their discipline, the Swiss broke straight up the other end to steal a winner.

Ecuador, however, can take heart from their subsequent performances, and from the fact that more of their players are being snapped by European clubs.

Chile would also appear to have the strongest team in their history -- and will look at next year's Copa America, which they host, as an opportunity to win their first senior title.

Colombia reached their first World Cup quarter final -- as did Paraguay four years ago, when they gave Spain their toughest test on the way to the title.

The Paraguayans then suffered the inevitable consequence of having to change generations. They finished bottom of South America's 2014 World Cup qualification table, but they will be back. A few months ago they took a young side to Germany for a friendly, and came back with a 3-3 draw -- a result that looks even better now in retrospect.

But if South America can count on unprecedented strength in depth, where is the extra strength capable of carrying one of the continent's teams all the way to the title?

Here, the situation does not look so comforting. All the evidence points to a clear conclusion -- in terms of club football, the gap between Europe and South America has never been so big.

This is not just a question of money; in recent years Brazilian clubs have been paying big salaries as a consequence of improved TV and sponsorship deals.

There are two sad facts here. One is that the organisation and administration of the Brazilian game are so dire that the clubs have spent themselves into deep financial crisis. The other is that in terms of ideas, Brazilian football looks intellectually barren.

Its clubs have won the Copa Libertadores in each of the past four years -- but without ever dominating in the way that should be the logical consequence of the giant financial advantage they enjoy over their continental rivals. And with the exception of the compact Corinthians of coach Tite in 2012, all have come back humiliated from the World Club Cup. This year, in an astonishing display of incompetence, Brazil has not even managed to qualify one team for the semifinals of the Libertadores.

Any hopes that Brazilian football would be taking a long hard look at itself were dashed when Dunga was hurriedly appointed as national team boss.

Argentina's production line of talent appears to have slowed down alarmingly since their most recent World Under-20 Cup win in 2007. And they come away from defeat in the final against Germany with an obvious question ringing in their ears -- this time around they had a favourable draw, immense traveling support and Lionel Messi at 27. If they cannot win the tournament this time, then when?

Uruguay reached the 2010 semifinals and won the Copa America the following year. But that side now needs extensive rebuilding, and a fallow period may follow.

Can Colombia keep making progress? Their coach Jose Pekerman argued that Brazil 2014 would be the tournament where the country took a definitive place at football's top table.

With an interesting generation still to reach its peak, maybe they can be genuine contenders in four years' time -- when South America will have to come up with something special to close that 11-9 gap with Europe.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/world-cup-central/59/post/1962914/tim-vickery-south-americas-lessons-from-the-world-cup
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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:22 am

Sabella quits Argentina job, Tata Martino likely to replace him

http://www.goal.com/en/news/585/argentina/2014/07/29/4991815/sabella-quits-argentina?ICID=HP_HN_2


Scolari is rewarded for the beautiful job he did with Brazil by signing for Gremio

http://www.goal.com/en/news/584/brazil/2014/07/29/4991690/gremio-confirm-scolari-appointment?ICID=HP_HN_3
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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:17 pm

It is so surreal and slightly comical to trawl through this thread in retrospect and wade through all the premature South American crowing after the third comprehensive and massively conclusive victory for Europe in succession at a World Cup.

Surely it was predictable that Brazil and all their flaws would be shown up sooner or later – if never in the manner it happened (I expected the entirely admirable Chile or Colombia to do the job); Argentina deserve credit for their perseverance, teamwork and progress-ive effectiveness, but even there there was a clear lopsidedness to team responsibilities, as Blut said – an internal changing of the guard within the continent to come? Presumably Argentina will want Simeone to be coaching them by the time of the next WC.

At least for the moment, this chapter seems closed...
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:32 pm

Fey wrote:
Fey wrote:Im refusing to surrender though!

Infact Todo...you can still sign the unconditional surrender though.

Otherwise, this will be you and Puro in a few weeks




Sad

We dont want that!

FFS Todo...I told you...surrender now!!

True visionary right here. Todo and Puro did a Krebs and Burgdorf Sad

Still a shame that Germany won in the end, I already made a parody for this with Fuhrer Low killing himself and the unconditional surrender of the DFB to Clasie and van Gaal

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blutgraetsche

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:18 pm

Ach Fey, how long do you think you can sneak out of playing us in the knock-out stages? In 2012 you were lumped in our group and we all know how that went. You were preposterously going on about being ahead of us in the FiFA rankings for months, and then came 'die Stunde der Wahrheit'!

As this thread has basically killed itself, I just want to say a wish for 2016. I wish we play Holland, Italy and Spain in 2016!
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:41 pm

Yes, but that Holland also lost from Denmark..and it was a groupstage match. Sooner or later it will happen again.

Germany wont beat Italy nor Spain. We both know that. You might beat Holland though, still a shame you had to play Argentina.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:45 pm

We'll see about that Fey, we'll see about that.

Spain beating us is a relatively new phenomenon, thanks to their exceptional generation. Our overall record against them is still positive.

Italy is the true nemesis, the only team I accept as a genuine bogey team. But we will overcome that sooner or later, and then, it'll be history. Before 1970, Germany had never beaten England in a competitive match either, and we all know how it went afterwards. The day will come.
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:52 pm

Yeah but England only has a positive record due to their matches played in 1889 or something like that. Everything before 1970 is meaningless to me. Hell im even working on a theory to declare everything before 2006 void. With the rise of Tiki-taka. My 10 year old nephew thinks Brazil are not a big football country FFS!
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blutgraetsche

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:05 pm

Your theory makes no sense.

Your own team pulverised the current Spanish definition of 'tiki taka', Heynckes Bayern did it before that on the club level. As all things in football, if you don't continue to evolve and improve, you'll be found out. Plus, Spain can't produce such an exceptional generation of players on a regular basis. They still produce a lot of very good players, but the likes of Xavi are once in a lifetime talents.

Spain for me is in the same category as France. Glorious peaks of dominance for a period of time, but not the consistency of decades, over a number of generations of players.

In 2016, France is likely going to be very strong again. Spain will be much better than this year, but it remains to be seen if the upcoming generation will be able to get them back to the top. Plus, they can't just continue to play the same way without facing the reality of the last few years.
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Fey

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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by Fey on Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:26 pm

Yes but both Holland as Bayern did it on the coward way, IE waiting for Spain/Barca to make an mistake.

I agree with 2016 that France look strong again. And they are at home, so my favs for 2016 are:

1) Spain
2) France
3) Belgium
4) Germany
5) Holland
6) Italy
7) England
Cool Portugal
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Re: South America vs. Europe

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:58 pm

Bayern were anything but cowardly. They dicked Barcelona. They attacked with purpose, skill and pace. It wasn't just waiting for them to make a mistake, they took the game to them.

Dortmund often have less possession than the opposition. But they are the most radically attacking team in European football. They are the most direct, most uncompromising attacking team. Possession doesn't mean 'bravery' , but control. This is something you finally have to understand. Possession football does not necessarily mean attacking football. Especially in the interpretation of Del Bosque's Spain, it was anything but attacking, but a means to stiffle the opposition and minimise risk. Taking risks is a precondition for an attacking philosophy.

Nice try with the list, but we all know how it really looks like in your head. The funny thing is whenever a tournament actually starts, you totally expect Germany to beat everyone and act as if it would be total failure if they didn't. But prior to that, they're just some mid-table team with a good record.

Sweet Jesus, just because of you I'd like us to draw Belgium to end this hype once and for all.

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