AZZURI D'ITALIA

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abundance

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by abundance on Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:16 am

uhm, they're playing for the country that's on their passport, in which they were born or raised and now live.
but it seems that somewhat that's not enough - they're not like us, and most probably are just opportunistic. Erm

Black Magic

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Black Magic on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:18 am

bluenine wrote:
Pirlo wrote:OPtimism, a new journey, a new identity and philosophy, and new players please.

Lets start will discussing who among the current squad should prandelli stick with for Euro2012 qualifiers.... the ones in bold I hope are the only ones Prandelli has in his consideration set:

PORTIERI: Buffon (Juventus), De Sanctis (Napoli), Marchetti (Cagliari),
DIFENSORI: Bocchetti (Genoa), Bonucci (Bari), Cannavaro (Juventus), Chiellini (Juventus), Criscito (Genoa), Maggio (Napoli), Zambrotta (Milan);

CENTROCAMPISTI: Camoranesi (Juventus), De Rossi (Roma), Gattuso (Milan), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Palombo (Sampdoria), Pepe (Udinese), Pirlo (Milan);

ATTACCANTI: Di Natale (Udinese), Gilardino (Fiorentina), Iaquinta (Juventus), Pazzini (Sampdoria), Quagliarella (Napoli),

Other players in Consideration set:

Goalkeepers: Sirigu, Abbiati
Defence: Gamberini, Ranocchia, Santacroce, Motta, Santon, Cassani, De Ceglie, Di Silvestri

Prandelli will surely bring in Gamberini, but I hope he also gives some chances to youngsters... this is the area where Italy needs most of the revolution. I would hope that by 2012, Italy has Chiellini + Gamberini + 2 youngsters will decent international exposure as CB's. And there are a lot of promising young fullbacks, I hope all 3-4 of them in the 2012 squad come from this crop with experience in the legs.

Midfield: Aquilani, D'Agostino, Candreva, Marchionni, Cigarini, Poli, etc

There is a decent bunch of new talent available here, on top of a decent nucleus from Lippi's side for Prandelli to build on... Assuming Prandelli goes with his usual 4231 formation, the 2 man central midfield will not be too much of a worry.

Strikers: Balotelli, Cassano, Miccoli, Rossi, Foggia, Okaka, etc

There is decent talent to work with for the creative striker and the 2 wingers behind the centre forward...


I am really looking forward to Italy playing the Prandelli brand of football, keeping the possession and attacking. I am not sure this Italy will win anything, probably not, but it will be a good rebuilding exercise, thats I am confident of.... and thats what Italy needs right now... its time to rebuild first, the silverware will follow later.

Great post mate. <Ale>

Black Magic

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Black Magic on Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:20 am

Pirlo wrote:
De Rossi No

MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! cheers

Cesare always loved DDR at Roma, he isn't going anywhere Pirlo. Biggrin
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:39 am

abundance wrote:uhm, they're playing for the country that's on their passport, in which they were born or raised and now live.
but it seems that somewhat that's not enough - they're not like us, and most probably are just opportunistic. Erm
Ale
To me, Balotelli is as Italian as Pirlo or Buffon or Cannavaro. There is no difference.

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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:43 am

Pirlo wrote:It was a great unveiling, and he spoke very honestly and with great enthusiasm and ideas,

but...

De Rossi No

Buffon is the new Italy captain when he returns from injury, absolutely the right choice ok

If it has a maturing effect on him, I hope DDR becomes vice captain and maybe even captain in the future. IMO he is one of the "core members" of the current azzurri, part of the essential spine of the team:

Buffon-Chiellini-De Rossi-Pirlo

Prandelli has to build around that basic spine, coz changing everything would be just plain stupid.
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:23 pm

Black Magic wrote:
Great post mate. <Ale>
Thanks mate
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:17 pm

I note that Rosina scored 2 in a Russian cup match today - do people think he will be in contention, especially with the fashion for left footers on the right ?
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:02 am

Wow, Prandelli, some of those decisions are really brave.... but awesome!!

I like that he is trying to bind Ledesma and Motta for Italy... they could become useful oriundi for the azzurri in the future...

Sirigu, Balotelli, Cassano, Rossi, Marchionni... all awesome picks.

Prandelli's first Azzurri shortlist, as rumoured by La Gazzetta dello Sport:

Goalkeepers: Salvatore Sirigu, Emiliano Viviano, Marco Storari, Antonio Mirante

Defenders: Leonardo Bonucci, Giorgio Chiellini, Luca Antonini, Cristian Zaccardo, Mattia Cassani Alessandro Gamberini, Salvatore Bochetti, Christian Maggio

Midfielders: Thiago Motta, Cristian Ledesma, Daniele Gallopa, Andrea Pirlo, Daniele De Rossi, Riccardo Montolivo, Claudio Marchiso, Simone Pepe, Angelo Palombo

Strikers: Alberto Gilardino, Maco Borriello, Giampaolo Pazzini, Anntonio Cassano, Mario Balotelli, Giuseppe Rossi, Fabio Quagliarella, Marco Marchionni, Rafaele Palladino.
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Murray

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Murray on Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:34 pm

It's a big improvement on the World Cup squad, not that that is too difficult.

Still some numpties in there though, like Pepe, Zaccardo & Marchisio
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:16 pm

Murray wrote:It's a big improvement on the World Cup squad, not that that is too difficult.

Still some numpties in there though, like Pepe, Zaccardo & Marchisio
Every coach likes a few donkeys.... but as long as he gets the key players right, its good enuf for me....

And if the above squad is indeed true, then Prandelli is doing even better than I had hoped for...
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by COTR on Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:21 pm

Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by L r dd on Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:30 pm

COTR wrote:Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile

I wonder how real Italians feel about it. The time FIFA get a grip of this international football could be dead.
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:00 pm

COTR wrote:Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile

Well, its not really a new thing.... Italian sides in the past have had some great "oriundi" (foriegn players of Italian origin). Some of the great players like Sivori, Altafini, Orsi, Schiaffino, etc were in all oriundi one way or the other.... So Camoranesi, Motta or Ledesma are not really pioneers.

Its a bit like Greg Rusedski playing in the Davis Cup for England.... these things always kind of divide the country in terms of opinion.

Personally, while I don't like it, I do agree that the players with multi-nationalities have to be given the final choice. And if I were Prandelli, I would ve selected them to "nation-tie" them too...
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COTR

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by COTR on Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:06 pm

Well Rusedski's mum is British so it isn't really the same. I'd compare it more to the stories about Almunia being nationalised by England. That one didn't really split opinion Smile

From google it appears Ledesma's only claim to being Italian is marrying an Italian woman ? Has he anything else going for him ?

You clearly support it so fair enough but as Lrd says it is becoming ridiculous

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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:26 pm

COTR wrote:Well Rusedski's mum is British so it isn't really the same. I'd compare it more to the stories about Almunia being nationalised by England. That one didn't really split opinion Smile

From google it appears Ledesma's only claim to being Italian is marrying an Italian woman ? Has he anything else going for him ?

You clearly support it so fair enough but as Lrd says it is becoming ridiculous


and living there for 9 years.

Its still bollocks though + surely the new Argie manager will pick him - he has more talent than Cambiasso and Mascherano put together.

Marchionni is not really a suprise as Prandelli obviously likes him and he is perhaps one of the few Italians really suited to a 4-3-3 (which he may consider).
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:12 pm

COTR wrote:Well Rusedski's mum is British so it isn't really the same. I'd compare it more to the stories about Almunia being nationalised by England. That one didn't really split opinion Smile

From google it appears Ledesma's only claim to being Italian is marrying an Italian woman ? Has he anything else going for him ?

You clearly support it so fair enough but as Lrd says it is becoming ridiculous
I don't support it, in the sense that I don't think I would choose to represent my adopted nation... however, it has to be a players choice, and that has to be respected as such.

Like I said, if I were in Prandelli's place, I would call them too...
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:41 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:
COTR wrote:Well Rusedski's mum is British so it isn't really the same. I'd compare it more to the stories about Almunia being nationalised by England. That one didn't really split opinion Smile

From google it appears Ledesma's only claim to being Italian is marrying an Italian woman ? Has he anything else going for him ?

You clearly support it so fair enough but as Lrd says it is becoming ridiculous


and living there for 9 years.

Its still bollocks though + surely the new Argie manager will pick him - he has more talent than Cambiasso and Mascherano put together.

Marchionni is not really a suprise as Prandelli obviously likes him and he is perhaps one of the few Italians really suited to a 4-3-3 (which he may consider).

His chances might end up being limited by Banega and Gago though.

I think Marchionni is just one of Prandelli's favourites that he will recall. He'll probably recall others aswell like Bonera or Gamberini. If he plays 4-3-3, it will be with Marchionni on the right, Gila up top, but one of Balotelli/Cassano will be forced out on the left. Either that or he goes with 4-2-3-1, but I can't think of who would play on the left (Italy don't really have anyone like Vargas).

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by L r dd on Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:53 pm

Pity he chose to play for Peru ey
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:43 am

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Pierre Littbarski wrote:
COTR wrote:Well Rusedski's mum is British so it isn't really the same. I'd compare it more to the stories about Almunia being nationalised by England. That one didn't really split opinion Smile

From google it appears Ledesma's only claim to being Italian is marrying an Italian woman ? Has he anything else going for him ?

You clearly support it so fair enough but as Lrd says it is becoming ridiculous


and living there for 9 years.

Its still bollocks though + surely the new Argie manager will pick him - he has more talent than Cambiasso and Mascherano put together.

Marchionni is not really a suprise as Prandelli obviously likes him and he is perhaps one of the few Italians really suited to a 4-3-3 (which he may consider).

His chances might end up being limited by Banega and Gago though.

I think Marchionni is just one of Prandelli's favourites that he will recall. He'll probably recall others aswell like Bonera or Gamberini. If he plays 4-3-3, it will be with Marchionni on the right, Gila up top, but one of Balotelli/Cassano will be forced out on the left. Either that or he goes with 4-2-3-1, but I can't think of who would play on the left (Italy don't really have anyone like Vargas).

With Prandelli, the 4231 is more likely... perhaps someting like this once Santon is fit:
Storari
Maggio - Chiellini - Gamberini - Santon
De Rossi - Montolivo
Marchionni - Cassano - Balotelli
Gilardino
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:00 pm

Problem is that Balotelli is too lazy for that position.
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:23 am

Another positive interview.... Prandelli has got me excited about the Azzurri again!!

Looks like it will be a 4231 as I suspected... Balotelli on the left, Cassano in the middle (the Vargas & Jovetic roles at Viola). Buffon as captain, another good call!

This could really work!
I Will Call Antonio Cassano, Mario Balotelli & Amauri - Italy Coach Cesare Prandelli
Prandelli's new-look Italy is taking shape...

Italy coach Cesare Prandelli has said he will frame his team around Sampdoria ace Antonio Cassano and Inter striker Mario Balotelli, with Amauri of Juventus also under consideration.

Prandelli is assembling his squad ahead of the Ivory Coast friendly on August 10 in London, and the squad is taking on a new look compared to Marcello Lippi's World Cup flops.

"I have spoken with Balotelli but I have not promised him anything. I will call players who play for their teams, it doesn't matter whether they are Italian or foreign," he told La Gazzetta dello Sport.

"I am happy with Cassano's maturation. Playing a 4-2-3-1, Cassano and Balotelli can play together. Balotelli on the left with Cassano in the middle.

"There are 60 players who could be called, I will call 23 or 24, giving precedence to those who I know less and those that have played more.

Amauri has promised 20 goals and a fight for an Italy place this season, and Prandelli confirmed his scope is far-reaching, adding further hope for the Brazilian-born hitman.

"Amauri? The idea is this, but [Marco] Borriello is also there," he continued.

And Prandelli confirmed currently injured Juventus goalkeeper Gianluigi Buffon will be handed the captaincy.

"I phoned Buffon to see how he was. He will be our captain. I hope he comes to see us in September when we are in Florence," he said.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by fcb on Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:27 am

Making Balotelli and Cassano key components of your team? Sure, it's "exciting", but in a "I'm excited about getting to walk on a tightrope across the Grand Canyon" kind of way.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:22 am

fcb wrote:Making Balotelli and Cassano key components of your team? Sure, it's "exciting", but in a "I'm excited about getting to walk on a tightrope across the Grand Canyon" kind of way.

Well I rather take a chance with Cassano/Balotelli than have the likes of Pepe as the key components of the team again.... Walking a tightrope is better than certain slow death via trequartistitis Razz
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:52 am

bluenine wrote:
fcb wrote:Making Balotelli and Cassano key components of your team? Sure, it's "exciting", but in a "I'm excited about getting to walk on a tightrope across the Grand Canyon" kind of way.

Well I rather take a chance with Cassano/Balotelli than have the likes of Pepe as the key components of the team again.... Walking a tightrope is better than certain slow death via trequartistitis Razz

It's like kas has forgotten all about what happened in the last WC.

Too much of a big deal is made of their personalities. They are no worse than say Totti and Materazzi (both of whom were integral to the WC win 4 years ago). I don't see it as a problem, players should be picked on their ability not their personality.
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abundance

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by abundance on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:42 pm

Yep.
Moreover, you should judge a man for how he behaves with you, not for his reputation.
Ie, Prandelli should call them ASAP to see first hand how they goes along with him and the squad.

I can understand delaying Balotelli debut until he gets some consistent playtime in his club, as he is young and has never been a first teamer yet, but Cassano? He's doing great at Samp since two years, can't see why he shouldn't deserve a call.
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abundance

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by abundance on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:55 pm

Re Motta, Ledesma and Amauri...

I'm not happy with them in the NT.

I'm all for a lax concept of nationality - ie, your home is where you live, and your nationality is what is on your passport. Ancestry is a thing of the past and I don't like the rethorics of patriotism.

BUT, in the case of football NT selections, I think that where you learnt to play football counts a lot.

Maybe it's only my view, but I see national teams as an expression of footballing schools, much more than a mere expression of nationality.

We have a great footballing school down here, with a huge tradition, I think that selecting players who formed elsewhere is just devaluing our school.

Yeah I know Amauri has spent all his pro career here, so you could say that he learnt to be a pro footballer here, but still he came here at 20, after spending all his formative years in Brazil.


More over, we already had a Oriundi phase in our history, and results wise that was the worst era of our WC history.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Super Progress on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:37 pm

abundance wrote:Re Motta, Ledesma and Amauri...

I'm not happy with them in the NT.

I'm all for a lax concept of nationality - ie, your home is where you live, and your nationality is what is on your passport. Ancestry is a thing of the past and I don't like the rethorics of patriotism.

BUT, in the case of football NT selections, I think that where you learnt to play football counts a lot.

Maybe it's only my view, but I see national teams as an expression of footballing schools, much more than a mere expression of nationality.

We have a great footballing school down here, with a huge tradition, I think that selecting players who formed elsewhere is just devaluing our school.

Yeah I know Amauri has spent all his pro career here, so you could say that he learnt to be a pro footballer here, but still he came here at 20, after spending all his formative years in Brazil.


More over, we already had a Oriundi phase in our history, and results wise that was the worst era of our WC history.
Question
Im guesing you aren't referring to the 30's then? Because Italy had oriundis in that period and a couple of important ones as well. So I don't quite understand your stance. Or are you talking about the 50's and 60's?

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by stinger on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:38 pm

COTR wrote:Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile
I don't see how it's comparable to German route...

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

It's like kas has forgotten all about what happened in the last WC.

Too much of a big deal is made of their personalities. They are no worse than say Totti and Materazzi (both of whom were integral to the WC win 4 years ago). I don't see it as a problem, players should be picked on their ability not their personality.
It's like you have forgotten all about what happened to France NT in the last WC.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:27 pm

abundance wrote:Re Motta, Ledesma and Amauri...

I'm not happy with them in the NT.

I'm all for a lax concept of nationality - ie, your home is where you live, and your nationality is what is on your passport. Ancestry is a thing of the past and I don't like the rethorics of patriotism.

BUT, in the case of football NT selections, I think that where you learnt to play football counts a lot.

Maybe it's only my view, but I see national teams as an expression of footballing schools, much more than a mere expression of nationality.

We have a great footballing school down here, with a huge tradition, I think that selecting players who formed elsewhere is just devaluing our school.

Yeah I know Amauri has spent all his pro career here, so you could say that he learnt to be a pro footballer here, but still he came here at 20, after spending all his formative years in Brazil.


More over, we already had a Oriundi phase in our history, and results wise that was the worst era of our WC history.

Just to add to what you've already said...

It's worth considering if these players are actually worth calling up.

Looking at the 3 that are in contention:

Amauri hasn't played well for a couple of seasons now. His attitude towards playing for Italy was not great either. It seems that he was very much undecided between Brazil and Italy but when he realised Dunga wasn't going to call him, he started leaning more towards Italy. Gilardino, Pazzini, Iaquinta and Borriello seem like better options.

Ledesma is a very talented midfielder. For once though, the Azzurri are have a fair few ball playing midfielders (Pirlo, Montolivo, Aquilani, Cigarini) which would make his call up rather pointless.

Thiago Motta is a good but not great DM. I don't think he is any better than De Rossi or Palombo.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:30 pm

stinger wrote:
COTR wrote:Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile
I don't see how it's comparable to German route...

What do you expect from COTR?

The only way Geramny have taken a similar route is with Cacau.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

It's like kas has forgotten all about what happened in the last WC.

Too much of a big deal is made of their personalities. They are no worse than say Totti and Materazzi (both of whom were integral to the WC win 4 years ago). I don't see it as a problem, players should be picked on their ability not their personality.
It's like you have forgotten all about what happened to France NT in the last WC.

They had a manager who couldn't control the team and left out many of their best players?


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