AZZURI D'ITALIA

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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:22 pm

abundance wrote:Re Motta, Ledesma and Amauri...

I'm not happy with them in the NT.

I'm all for a lax concept of nationality - ie, your home is where you live, and your nationality is what is on your passport. Ancestry is a thing of the past and I don't like the rethorics of patriotism.

BUT, in the case of football NT selections, I think that where you learnt to play football counts a lot.

Maybe it's only my view, but I see national teams as an expression of footballing schools, much more than a mere expression of nationality.

We have a great footballing school down here, with a huge tradition, I think that selecting players who formed elsewhere is just devaluing our school.

Yeah I know Amauri has spent all his pro career here, so you could say that he learnt to be a pro footballer here, but still he came here at 20, after spending all his formative years in Brazil.


More over, we already had a Oriundi phase in our history, and results wise that was the worst era of our WC history.

Pozzo successfully used the Oriundi for Italy for Italy's first two WC wins.... infact the only time Italy won the world cup without any Oriundi was in 1982 Razz

But I completely understand where you are coming from.... unfortunately, this is how the rules are, and you lose competitive advantage if you refuse to use all resources available to you... I agree with Rinaldi's take on this (one of the better bloggers at Football Italia):

In truth, it had to be this way. The new CT will want to cast his net as wide as possible in order to study all the options at his disposal. If overseas-born players are eligible and can add something to the squad then why not run the rule over them at the very least? Not everyone may agree with their inclusion but, if you dont, you risk handicapping yourself against opponents willing to use the regulations to their advantage

http://football-italia.net/blogs/gr100.html

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by stinger on Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:00 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
stinger wrote:
COTR wrote:Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile
I don't see how it's comparable to German route...

What do you expect from COTR?

The only way Geramny have taken a similar route is with Cacau.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

It's like kas has forgotten all about what happened in the last WC.

Too much of a big deal is made of their personalities. They are no worse than say Totti and Materazzi (both of whom were integral to the WC win 4 years ago). I don't see it as a problem, players should be picked on their ability not their personality.
It's like you have forgotten all about what happened to France NT in the last WC.

They had a manager who couldn't control the team and left out many of their best players?

1. Even Cacau doesn't fit here - he got a germany passport just like every other citizen, living there for 8 years and declaring himself interested in obtaining germany citizenship. There was also no pressure regarding him and passport for him from DFB.

2. Many of their best players? I would say Lippi's selection looking at names was much worse than Domenech's, they were mostly struggling with terrible coach not being able to deal with poor mentality of his players. We don't know how would a better coach deal with it...
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:14 am

stinger wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
stinger wrote:
COTR wrote:Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile
I don't see how it's comparable to German route...

What do you expect from COTR?

The only way Geramny have taken a similar route is with Cacau.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

It's like kas has forgotten all about what happened in the last WC.

Too much of a big deal is made of their personalities. They are no worse than say Totti and Materazzi (both of whom were integral to the WC win 4 years ago). I don't see it as a problem, players should be picked on their ability not their personality.
It's like you have forgotten all about what happened to France NT in the last WC.

They had a manager who couldn't control the team and left out many of their best players?

1. Even Cacau doesn't fit here - he got a germany passport just like every other citizen, living there for 8 years and declaring himself interested in obtaining germany citizenship. There was also no pressure regarding him and passport for him from DFB.

2. Many of their best players? I would say Lippi's selection looking at names was much worse than Domenech's, they were mostly struggling with terrible coach not being able to deal with poor mentality of his players. We don't know how would a better coach deal with it...

Mate, lets just call Domenech a special case... he was just too poor a manager...

In Prandelli, we trust. He will play excitimg football, select exciting players, and manage them well. He does come accross as a very mature & nice human being... and he knows how to work with youngsters. I am sure he can get the best out of Cassano/Balotelli, if anyone can...

A great choice for the Azzurri to rebuild a top footballing nation...
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 12:25 am

stinger wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
stinger wrote:
COTR wrote:Nice to see Italy going the German route

Motta and Ledesma Italian Smile
I don't see how it's comparable to German route...

What do you expect from COTR?

The only way Geramny have taken a similar route is with Cacau.

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:

It's like kas has forgotten all about what happened in the last WC.

Too much of a big deal is made of their personalities. They are no worse than say Totti and Materazzi (both of whom were integral to the WC win 4 years ago). I don't see it as a problem, players should be picked on their ability not their personality.
It's like you have forgotten all about what happened to France NT in the last WC.

They had a manager who couldn't control the team and left out many of their best players?

1. Even Cacau doesn't fit here - he got a germany passport just like every other citizen, living there for 8 years and declaring himself interested in obtaining germany citizenship. There was also no pressure regarding him and passport for him from DFB.

2. Many of their best players? I would say Lippi's selection looking at names was much worse than Domenech's, they were mostly struggling with terrible coach not being able to deal with poor mentality of his players. We don't know how would a better coach deal with it...

1. Following on from what abundance said, all the German players played in German youth teams. Cacau is the exception.

2. Lippi's selections were worse. I guess we'll have to see how Blanc does. ok

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by stinger on Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:35 pm

But Cacau wanted to be a German citizen before he had a chance to play for NT, Ledesma is just an Argentinian fella, who is called to play for Italy NT, having italian passport only to be not treated as a non-EU player.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:38 am

Prandelli's first Squad selection expected today... can't wait, coz the first selection will give a good idea of things to come, the direction he is planning to take.

I expect Cassano and Amauri to be included, tho I have a feeling Balotelli will not get a call yet... Balotelli will first have to break into the starting XI of his club to merit a call, and thats fair. But I do expect a few youngsters to get a chance, and more importantly, I hope many of Lippi's aging favourites to get the chop....

Lets see what happens....
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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:58 pm

Italy call Balotelli, Cassano & Amauri
Friday 6 August, 2010
Mario Balotelli, Antonio Cassano and Amauri have all been named in Cesare Prandellis maiden Italian national squad.

The Azzurri face the Ivory Coast on Tuesday at West Hams Upton Park in a friendly and the new tactician has named 23 players.

Inters Balotelli and Juventus hitman Amauri receive their first call-ups, while Cassano returns to the fold for the first time since Euro 2008.

While Balotelli and Cassano were expected to be included, Amauris selection may come as a surprise to some.

Amauri, born in Brazil, only received his Italian passport less than six months ago.

Of the six attackers named by Prandelli, only Fabio Quagliarella is a survivor from Marcello Lippis 2010 World Cup squad.

Alberto Gilardino of Fiorentina and Sampdorias Giampaolo Pazzini, players who Prandelli has worked with in the past, havent been selected.

Bolognas Emiliano Viviano, another debutant, is one of the three goalkeepers given the absence of the injured Gigi Buffon.

There are new and internationally inexperienced faces in defence too as Luca Antonini, Davide Astori, Mattia Cassani, Stefano Lucchini, Cristian Molinaro and Marco Motta are picked.

Given that Buffon and Milans Andrea Pirlo have not been selected, Romas Daniele De Rossi is likely to captain the side.

The players will meet up on Sunday at Coverciano in Florence, with their flight to London scheduled for Monday.

Italy kick off their Euro 2012 campaign in Estonia on September 3.

Goalkeepers: Marchetti (Cagliari), Sirigu (Palermo), Viviano (Bologna)

Defenders: Antonini (Milan), Astori (Cagliari), Bonucci (Juventus), Cassani (Palermo), Chiellini (Juventus), Lucchini (Sampdoria), Molinaro (Stuttgart), Motta (Juventus)

Midfielders: De Rossi (Roma), Lazzari (Cagliari), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Palombo (Sampdoria), Pepe (Juventus)

Attackers: Amauri (Juventus), Balotelli (Inter), Borriello (Milan), Cassano (Sampdoria), Quagliarella (Napoli), Rossi (Villarreal)

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channel4

Very surprised by Antonini and Pepe (still!).

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:23 pm

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Italy call Balotelli, Cassano & Amauri
Friday 6 August, 2010

Goalkeepers: Marchetti (Cagliari), Sirigu (Palermo), Viviano (Bologna)

Defenders: Antonini (Milan), Astori (Cagliari), Bonucci (Juventus), Cassani (Palermo), Chiellini (Juventus), Lucchini (Sampdoria), Molinaro (Stuttgart), Motta (Juventus)

Midfielders: De Rossi (Roma), Lazzari (Cagliari), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Palombo (Sampdoria), Pepe (Juventus)

Attackers: Amauri (Juventus), Balotelli (Inter), Borriello (Milan), Cassano (Sampdoria), Quagliarella (Napoli), Rossi (Villarreal)

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channel4

Very surprised by Antonini and Pepe (still!).

A very experimental squad, some strange call-ups, but thats exactly what is needed... Prandelli is shaking things up, and a friendly is the best place to start... very surprised to see Gila and Marchionni not make it, but perhaps Prandelli just wants to see some new players.

Antonini, Molinaro, Astori, and Lazzari are quite unexpected calls, and Pepe seems to be another Camoranesisque player who only the coaches rate...
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Calidad on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:10 pm

Why are Italy playing in London, and not in, well, Italy?

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by L r dd on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:14 pm

Calidad wrote:Why are Italy playing in London, and not in, well, Italy?

Seems most their fans live here Biggrin
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:22 pm

I know it has one too many lazy attackinbg players, but how cool would the following line up be this tuesday??
Sirigu
Motta - Bonucci - Astori - Chiellini
De Rossi - Montolivo
Rossi - Cassano - Balotelli
Amauri

I hope Santon gets picked soon, or De Ceglie starts playing to his potential, coz Prandelli's current selection of LB's is shite...
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:48 pm

bluenine wrote:I know it has one too many lazy attackinbg players, but how cool would the following line up be this tuesday??
Sirigu
Motta - Bonucci - Astori - Chiellini
De Rossi - Montolivo
Rossi - Cassano - Balotelli
Amauri

I hope Santon gets picked soon, or De Ceglie starts playing to his potential, coz Prandelli's current selection of LB's is shite...

Should be an Italian up front really.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Lordanger on Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:00 pm

and amauri is a large bag of poo.
he should be nationalized for wales.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pirlo on Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:00 pm

Prandelli's conference at Coverciano yesterday was a joy, it's like a fresh air for La Nazionale and i am really optimistic and encouraged by his new selection and his plans and vision for the side.

He said he will talk to Balotelli and ask him how he can help, plus he also wants attacking and risk taking football, and for the players to have a fear-free mentality that blocked them in the World Cup,

Lucchini and Astori deserve their call-ups, Antonini has improved a lot in the last two years but i don't rate him high enough for national selection

Marchetti pulled out of the sqaud earlier today, so Mirante has been called up in his place, hopefully Sirigu will start, he is complete raw potential. bounce

Anyway, new era, let's go Quagliarella! Twisted Evil
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:20 pm

Apparently Prandelli tried the following formation in training: The christmas tree - 4-3-2-1
Sirigu
Motta - Bonucci - Chiellini - Molinaro
Pepe - De Rossi - Palombo
Cassano - Balotellli
Amauri



Not too shabby for a start... it could ve been such a different WC had Prandelli been in charge...
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:02 pm

More of a 4-2-3-1 with Pepe and Balotelli on the wings. This will be interesting to see.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pirlo on Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:56 pm

The system was 4-2-3-1, the team did fitness work for the first hour then played a match - the expected line-up v Cote d'Ivoire played against the 'reserves'.

Balotelli played very well in training, played a very impressive pass for De Rossi's goal and won a penalty,

Sirigu should be the only change, he swapped teams halfway through,
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Super Progress on Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:01 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:More of a 4-2-3-1 with Pepe and Balotelli on the wings. This will be interesting to see.
I can't imagine that Prandelli would play Pepe in a 3 man midfield unless he is thinking that by having Pepe as a sort of Camoranesi who was enough of an work horse to play in central midfield. This would allow Cassano and Balotelli the freedom they need. All in all im guesing it will be a loopsided 4-2-3-1 with Pepe being a workhorse so at times it might resemble a 4-3-2-1. This is the correct approach imo as well as long as the fullbacks are dynamic and join attack.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:11 pm

Super Laudrup wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:More of a 4-2-3-1 with Pepe and Balotelli on the wings. This will be interesting to see.
I can't imagine that Prandelli would play Pepe in a 3 man midfield unless he is thinking that by having Pepe as a sort of Camoranesi who was enough of an work horse to play in central midfield. This would allow Cassano and Balotelli the freedom they need. All in all im guesing it will be a loopsided 4-2-3-1 with Pepe being a workhorse so at times it might resemble a 4-3-2-1. This is the correct approach imo as well as long as the fullbacks are dynamic and join attack.

My thoughts exactly. Though i hope he's only experementing with players like Amauri, Molinaro and Pepe because there are better options in their respective positions.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:03 am

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Super Laudrup wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:More of a 4-2-3-1 with Pepe and Balotelli on the wings. This will be interesting to see.
I can't imagine that Prandelli would play Pepe in a 3 man midfield unless he is thinking that by having Pepe as a sort of Camoranesi who was enough of an work horse to play in central midfield. This would allow Cassano and Balotelli the freedom they need. All in all im guesing it will be a loopsided 4-2-3-1 with Pepe being a workhorse so at times it might resemble a 4-3-2-1. This is the correct approach imo as well as long as the fullbacks are dynamic and join attack.

My thoughts exactly. Though i hope he's only experementing with players like Amauri, Molinaro and Pepe because there are better options in their respective positions.

I agree, its a 4231 in disguise with a facking runner on the right Wink

Amauri I do rate. I think he is/was very good at holding the ball upfront, and creatijng holes for Cassano//Balotelli to exploit. IMO he is worth a shot. Hopefully when Santon starts playing regularly this season, he will make the LB starting role his own. Pepe, we will probably just have to tolerate, dude. Every coach seems to like him, just like donkeyt before him... Pepe is donkey ver 2.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pirlo on Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:19 pm

Pepe is a good player in Serie A, maybe the confidence under Donadoni and Lippi was not there, but Prandelli is an excellent man-manager, and because of his style, methods, personality and the way he carried on with his wife's sad illness and death everyone in Italy really likes and respects him, those moments in that Fiorentina v Inter game said a lot.

Getting Pepe's fear out of him is a priority, Cassano has been 'tamed' by his marriage, Balotelli obviously needs a lot of work, but if Prandelli can't, then who can?

Amauri's been in Italy for ten years, played his entire football career here, before that he was in Bellinzona so i don't have a problem with him representing Italian football. He was sensational the season before Calciopoli, and pretty good at Palermo, i think it's a good addition to the sqaud.

Same with Cristian Ledesma, he's played his entire professional career in Italy, i don't haowever agree with Thiago Motta - i think that's a step too far.

Oriundi have traditionally been a big part of italian football and culture, we've had Altafini, Camoranesi, Balotelli, Orsi, Giuseppe Rossi, Sivori etc, i like multi-culturalism and i don't like the rigidity of passport nationalism.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:27 pm

Pirlo wrote:Pepe is a good player in Serie A, maybe the confidence under Donadoni and Lippi was not there, but Prandelli is an excellent man-manager, and because of his style, methods, personality and the way he carried on with his wife's sad illness and death everyone in Italy really likes and respects him, those moments in that Fiorentina v Inter game said a lot.

Getting Pepe's fear out of him is a priority, Cassano has been 'tamed' by his marriage, Balotelli obviously needs a lot of work, but if Prandelli can't, then who can?

Amauri's been in Italy for ten years, played his entire football career here, before that he was in Bellinzona so i don't have a problem with him representing Italian football. He was sensational the season before Calciopoli, and pretty good at Palermo, i think it's a good addition to the sqaud.

Same with Cristian Ledesma, he's played his entire professional career in Italy, i don't haowever agree with Thiago Motta - i think that's a step too far.

Oriundi have traditionally been a big part of italian football and culture, we've had Altafini, Camoranesi, Balotelli, Orsi, Giuseppe Rossi, Sivori etc, i like multi-culturalism and i don't like the rigidity of passport nationalism.
Good post

However Balotelli was born in Italy, raised in Italy. He is not Oriundo. He is as Italian as anyone else.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pirlo on Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:43 pm

His family as emigrants to Italia i was referencing but sure, he's a bona fide Italian in my eye.

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by L r dd on Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:10 pm

Not in mine Ale
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Pirlo on Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:18 am

L r dd wrote:Not in mine Ale

Nationalities are a superficial man-made and imposed system of categorisation.

Emigration, migration, the movement of animals has been a composite of nature and evolution for all time, and a key contributor to genetic strength. Rather than see people as nationalities based on undecisory factors as birth and current political lines (which is subject to change and in years will be massively different again - Soveit Russians have had many 'national' identities during the breakup, Mirko Vucinic has had at least two nationalities, so these labels are not universal ) we should instead see people as groups who intersperse and share their culture, always renewing thier social identities and creating new shared interests.

Balotelli was born in Italy, lived in italy all his life and played all of his football in italy. He rejected Ghana and chose to wait for Italian nationality, he chooses to represent italian football thus unifying himself with the supporters and people who follow and support Italian football. I couldn't care less who his parents are, where people are born or whatever, i chose not to judge people on their racial background, origin or their passport, i instead want people to show a desire to represent our football and our people, they matter more to me.

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:25 am

Pirlo wrote:Nationalities are a superficial man-made and imposed system of categorisation.

Emigration, migration, the movement of animals has been a composite of nature and evolution for all time, and a key contributor to genetic strength. Rather than see people as nationalities based on undecisory factors as birth and current political lines (which is subject to change and in years will be massively different again - Soveit Russians have had many 'national' identities during the breakup, Mirko Vucinic has had at least two nationalities, so these labels are not universal ) we should instead see people as groups who intersperse and share their culture, always renewing thier social identities and creating new shared interests.

Balotelli was born in Italy, lived in italy all his life and played all of his football in italy. He rejected Ghana and chose to wait for Italian nationality, he chooses to represent italian football thus unifying himself with the supporters and people who follow and support Italian football. I couldn't care less who his parents are, where people are born or whatever, i chose not to judge people on their racial background, origin or their passport, i instead want people to show a desire to represent our football and our people, they matter more to me.
Good post. Exactly my point of view as well.
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by Murray on Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:29 pm

That would wipe the floor with the world cup team, apart from Pepe obviously

Italy: Sirigu; Motta, Chiellini, Bonucci, Molinaro; De Rossi, Palombo; Pepe, Cassano, Balotelli; Amauri

Ivory Coast: Barry; Eboue, Kolo Toure, Bamba, Tiene, Kouassi, Zokora, Yaya Toure, Tiote, Kalou, Dindane

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by L r dd on Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:02 pm

bluenine wrote:
Pirlo wrote:Nationalities are a superficial man-made and imposed system of categorisation.

Emigration, migration, the movement of animals has been a composite of nature and evolution for all time, and a key contributor to genetic strength. Rather than see people as nationalities based on undecisory factors as birth and current political lines (which is subject to change and in years will be massively different again - Soveit Russians have had many 'national' identities during the breakup, Mirko Vucinic has had at least two nationalities, so these labels are not universal ) we should instead see people as groups who intersperse and share their culture, always renewing thier social identities and creating new shared interests.

Balotelli was born in Italy, lived in italy all his life and played all of his football in italy. He rejected Ghana and chose to wait for Italian nationality, he chooses to represent italian football thus unifying himself with the supporters and people who follow and support Italian football. I couldn't care less who his parents are, where people are born or whatever, i chose not to judge people on their racial background, origin or their passport, i instead want people to show a desire to represent our football and our people, they matter more to me.
Good post. Exactly my point of view as well.

Probably why you think it's a good post.

Balotelli has no real enthusiam for Italy maybe he just rejects Ghana. Don't blame him.
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bluenine

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by bluenine on Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:04 pm

Murray wrote:That would wipe the floor with the world cup team, apart from Pepe obviously

Italy: Sirigu; Motta, Chiellini, Bonucci, Molinaro; De Rossi, Palombo; Pepe, Cassano, Balotelli; Amauri

Ivory Coast: Barry; Eboue, Kolo Toure, Bamba, Tiene, Kouassi, Zokora, Yaya Toure, Tiote, Kalou, Dindane

Jus got back. Anyone got a good live stream?

Italy are down 0-1... how did they play in first half? What changes ve been made in 2nd half?
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shazlx

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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

Post by shazlx on Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:22 pm

bluenine wrote:
Murray wrote:That would wipe the floor with the world cup team, apart from Pepe obviously

Italy: Sirigu; Motta, Chiellini, Bonucci, Molinaro; De Rossi, Palombo; Pepe, Cassano, Balotelli; Amauri

Ivory Coast: Barry; Eboue, Kolo Toure, Bamba, Tiene, Kouassi, Zokora, Yaya Toure, Tiote, Kalou, Dindane

Jus got back. Anyone got a good live stream?

Italy are down 0-1... how did they play in first half? What changes ve been made in 2nd half?
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Re: AZZURI D'ITALIA

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