AC Milan 2010-11

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bluenine

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by bluenine on Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:13 pm

Liedholm wrote:Agree. The problem with Ibra in Barca was that they (Barca) had this fixed idea that he should be their "number 9". But Ibra is not a classical first striker. He is a second striker who is at his best when he has a first striker as partner (Larsson/Trezeguet/Crespo/Adriano). Having Ibra pouch in the box is to waste his talent.

When Mourinho tried 4-3-3 with Ibra it didnt work so he reverted to 4-4-2 and benched Mancini and Quaresma. The question is if Milan is going to have the same problem as Barca to fit Ibra into a 4-3-3? Perhaps it's better to play Pato in the middle and have Ibra on the flank?

Exactly what I said in the other thread... Milan are making the same mistake Barca did... Ibra should play fantasista, thats what he is.
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Liedholm

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Liedholm on Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:47 pm

bluenine wrote:
Liedholm wrote:Agree. The problem with Ibra in Barca was that they (Barca) had this fixed idea that he should be their "number 9". But Ibra is not a classical first striker. He is a second striker who is at his best when he has a first striker as partner (Larsson/Trezeguet/Crespo/Adriano). Having Ibra pouch in the box is to waste his talent.

When Mourinho tried 4-3-3 with Ibra it didnt work so he reverted to 4-4-2 and benched Mancini and Quaresma. The question is if Milan is going to have the same problem as Barca to fit Ibra into a 4-3-3? Perhaps it's better to play Pato in the middle and have Ibra on the flank?

Exactly what I said in the other thread... Milan are making the same mistake Barca did... Ibra should play fantasista, thats what he is.


There must be a reason why people call him il Genio and Ibracadabra.

Magic
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abundance

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by abundance on Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:21 am

I agree with you all.

I'd add that forcing Ibra to play the striker role isn't just spiting him but also the team - ie, he's not cut for it and will lessen the attacking teamplay.
He just can't do the right moves and cuts, in this respect any of the Borriellos of this world is better than him.

As you said, it didn't work this way at Inter too.

Under Mancini Ibra was at his best and indeed he played as a "9 e mezzo", wandering as a second forward with his peculiar moves. He was free to roam and ended up often on the deep left.


Putting Pato in the middle for cutting and running, with Ibra alongside him, would be the best fit.
The only issue is what this makes of Ronaldinho, as this setup is quite onerous for a three man midfield.
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Super Progress

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Super Progress on Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:20 pm

Liedholm wrote:I posted a couple of years ago under the name of Wassberg, but was unable to log in, so now I'm Liedholm. Very Happy

I think Milan should try Pato in the middle. It has been said that Ibra lost his place in Barca when it was discovered that Barca played best when Messi played as a "false 9". Because it was thought that Ibra can only play as a "9", he was dropped. Pato has some of Messi's qualities (dribbling), but is also more of a traditional striker. Ibra, il Genio, is the player that any team that aspires for artistic greatness should always keep on the field.

Most important, though, that Milan keeps the positions flexible. In Barca Ibra was resigned to be the pole in the box while the inner circle was supposed to do the playing. They didn't pass the ball to him, and after six months he lost all his confidence. This is the reason why he now so ostentaciously drops into the field to get the ball, in Milan and in the Swedish national team. It is to recover his spirit and his skills.
And play Ibra on the right?

Either way Milan will look weak defensively with Ronaldinho and Ibrahimovic/Robinho on the wings. You simply can't afford to play two players like that who simply don't do anything defensively. Otherwise I would agree that with the current team Pato should play as a CF.

Where are you from?
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:12 pm

Dinho behind Ibra and Pato in a 4-3-1-2 is the best option i can think of. The Ibra deal is strange if they had 4-3-3 in mind, and the Robinho deal on top of it even stranger. They paid all that money only for him to sit on the bench, yet they're happy to have the likes of Gattuso, Antonini, Bonera etc. as starters. I agree with Super, they will probably lose to a tactically aware team. Players like Ibra and Dinho won't do the required defensive work. They already had a working system in place, now they have to build something again since 4-3-3 won't work with the players they have.
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Super Progress

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Super Progress on Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:20 pm

Giovanni Del Bobo wrote:Dinho behind Ibra and Pato in a 4-3-1-2 is the best option i can think of. The Ibra deal is strange if they had 4-3-3 in mind, and the Robinho deal on top of it even stranger. They paid all that money only for him to sit on the bench, yet they're happy to have the likes of Gattuso, Antonini, Bonera etc. as starters. I agree with Super, they will probably lose to a tactically aware team. Players like Ibra and Dinho won't do the required defensive work. They already had a working system in place, now they have to build something again since 4-3-3 won't work with the players they have.
The paradox is that Leonardo moved away from the 4-3-1-2 after the first games last season where it didn't really work. Ronaldinho simply couldn't perform in that position. The difference is that he seems to have recovered some of his pace but I still think he will struggle in that position. Only time I can remember him doing well was for Brazil in 2002. This is why I figured that Milan might really improve if they let Ronaldinho go this summer despite his good performance last season. He can only really play in a 4-3-3 and this limits Milan a lot.

I don't think Berlusconi made this move for sporting reasons really. It was a populist move to keep the fans happy and judging from the reactions afterwards it worked well. Maybe they should go for a 4-3-2-1 move to crowd the middle and hope the 2 Dm's can take care of opposite wingers and fullbacks. Also Allegri will have to be pragmatic in his team selection and drop important players when needed to get the right balance against certain teams.
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wassberg

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by wassberg on Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:22 pm

Super Padrino wrote:
Where are you from?


I am a countryman of il Genio.

cheers
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Super Progress

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Super Progress on Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:56 pm

wassberg wrote:
Super Padrino wrote:
Where are you from?


I am a countryman of il Genio.

cheers
Fairly used nickname though. Smiley

For me El Genio will always be:



Swedish?
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Jaime

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Jaime on Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:01 pm

wassberg wrote:
Super Padrino wrote:
Where are you from?


I am a countryman of il Genio.

cheers



Question
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bluenine

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by bluenine on Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:21 pm

wassberg wrote:
Super Padrino wrote:
Where are you from?


I am a countryman of il Genio.

cheers

Well, contryman of il Genio, welcome to the MB.

Do you support Milan coz of il Genio, or since much before he joined....
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wassberg

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by wassberg on Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:38 pm

bluenine wrote:

Do you support Milan coz of il Genio, or since much before he joined....


I always follow il Genio. I used to be a Juve fan, then I became an Inter fan. After a while I started to like Barca. No I'm cheering for Milan. By the way, I hate Barca.

rendeer
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abundance

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by abundance on Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:40 pm

eheh
Do you still support Malm in Sweden?
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Super Progress

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Super Progress on Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:13 pm

wassberg wrote:
bluenine wrote:

Do you support Milan coz of il Genio, or since much before he joined....


I always follow il Genio. I used to be a Juve fan, then I became an Inter fan. After a while I started to like Barca. No I'm cheering for Milan. By the way, I hate Barca.

rendeer
That makes it 3 Scandinavians on this board. A dane(me) and a Norwegian and now a Swede.
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bluenine

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by bluenine on Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:52 pm

wassberg wrote:
bluenine wrote:

Do you support Milan coz of il Genio, or since much before he joined....


I always follow il Genio. I used to be a Juve fan, then I became an Inter fan. After a while I started to like Barca. No I'm cheering for Milan. By the way, I hate Barca.

rendeer
You are now the first person I have ever come across who has been a fan of Inter, Milan and Juve!!

Anyways, its good to see a fan of Il Genio here.... I am tired of being among the few who defend his talent on this MB against the vast army of non-believers Wink
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wassberg

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by wassberg on Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:53 am

Like Ibra, I hope to retire as a Milan fan. But you never know: football is football. Anything can happen in 24 hours. Very Happy
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Six

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Six on Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:41 pm

bluenine wrote:
wassberg wrote:
bluenine wrote:

Do you support Milan coz of il Genio, or since much before he joined....


I always follow il Genio. I used to be a Juve fan, then I became an Inter fan. After a while I started to like Barca. No I'm cheering for Milan. By the way, I hate Barca.

rendeer
You are now the first person I have ever come across who has been a fan of Inter, Milan and Juve!!

Anyways, its good to see a fan of Il Genio here.... I am tired of being among the few who defend his talent on this MB against the vast army of non-believers Wink

It's weird why everyone hates him isn't it?

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abundance

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by abundance on Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:48 pm

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Red n' Black

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Red n' Black on Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:11 pm

Pato, Ambro and Antonini all injured in yesterday's game and had to be replaced. Pato is looking at at least a month on the sidelines according to what I've read. Robinho will play more now and I think once he regains match-fitness he will be very useful. He seemed to be combining well with the other attacking players and showed a willingness to help out in defence as well.

Hopefully Flamini and Thiago Silva will recover soon.
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bluenine

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by bluenine on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:16 pm

I read about this too... must admit, I did take some pleasure out of someone going after Sacchi... That said, Ibra does need some manners.... he came accross as an old fashioned school bully in the Strasser incident!
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wassberg

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by wassberg on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:39 pm

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wassberg

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by wassberg on Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:53 pm

Good game last night. Some thoughts:

1. Ibra is back! I was a little worried that maybe he had past his prime and that's why he did not succeed in Barca. But yesterday he showed his old form. Particularly joyful was to see him dribble, which shows that his confidence is back.

2. Good move to buy Robinho. The buy looked perhaps like an unnecessary galacticos buy at first. But with Pato injure prone and Ronaldinho a little up and down, Robinho showed yesterday that he will be needed.

3. Unfortunately, Milan will probably not win anything this season. Their midfield and defence are simply not good enough (with the exception of Boateng). Reinforcements in January is a must.
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bluenine

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by bluenine on Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Red n' Black wrote:Pato, Ambro and Antonini all injured in yesterday's game and had to be replaced. Pato is looking at at least a month on the sidelines according to what I've read. Robinho will play more now and I think once he regains match-fitness he will be very useful. He seemed to be combining well with the other attacking players and showed a willingness to help out in defence as well.

Hopefully Flamini and Thiago Silva will recover soon.

You should be hoping (and praying) that Nesta stays fit... that guy is a legend, never seen one defender make such a big difference to a team... Thiago is good, but as we saw last weekend, not good enough to lead a defence.... he is a good sidekick to Nesta. Also, it wasn't a surprise to see Boateng make an impact... you need players like Boateng & Flamini in the midfield, players with legs, to compensate for the lazy attacking trio.

Anyways, one thing that surprised me yesterday was that Allegri chose Bonera over Yepes... what do you guys think about that? Who would you rate as your 3rd choice CB after Nesta & Thiago?
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Red n' Black

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Red n' Black on Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:18 pm

I don't consider Thiago better than Nesta; actually Nesta is one of my favourite players ever. I just want Thiago to recover so he can play with Nesta, as our defence is much better with both playing Wink

Re Yepes, I was surprised he didn't play yesterday, especially since TS and Sokratis were both out. I like both Yepes and Sokratis to be honest; I think Yepes can lead a back line and read the game better than Sokratis(he is also much more experienced), whereas Sokratis is faster/more athletic and has decent ball-playing ability (he made some positional errors v Cesena but he is only 22 and as the season progresses I think he will show that he is a solid player).


About Flamini/Boateng; you just beat me to it. I've been saying that Allegri needs to play at least one dynamic player in midfield, be it Flams or Boateng. The difference yesterday was evident; Ambro is still ok if you play him as a defensive midfielder but he doesn't have the legs to run for an entire team nor will he be as effective when asked to play a more 'box-to-box' role, especially if none of the other midfielders can defend. Boateng yesterday helped out the defence but he was also able to attack and make runs into the box, which ultimately resulted in Ibra's goal;plus, he could have added one for himself a few mins later.



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bluenine

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by bluenine on Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:44 pm

Red n' Black wrote:I don't consider Thiago better than Nesta; actually Nesta is one of my favourite players ever. I just want Thiago to recover so he can play with Nesta, as our defence is much better with both playing Wink

Re Yepes, I was surprised he didn't play yesterday, especially since TS and Sokratis were both out. I like both Yepes and Sokratis to be honest; I think Yepes can lead a back line and read the game better than Sokratis(he is also much more experienced), whereas Sokratis is faster/more athletic and has decent ball-playing ability (he made some positional errors v Cesena but he is only 22 and as the season progresses I think he will show that he is a solid player).
Thats seems to be the popular opinion among the rossoneri fans... I liked papa at Genoa, he was indeed a regular for my fantasy team... but he always was a risky CB, and IMO (looking at the way he plays) he always will be... With great CB's (from a defense point of view) you almost feel like the ball is moving in slow motion near them... thats their finese, down to their natural talent. With players like Papa, the ball kinda seems to move faster near him.... he may make a good defensive fullback yet, but you if are hoping that he makes a great CB, I fear you will be disappointed...

At the mo, IMO Yepes is your best option if either of Nesta or Thiago gets injured. Clearly, Allegri has a different opinion.
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Tarun

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Tarun on Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:51 am

Classy response by Sacchi to Ibra...especially the last sentence

Sacchi hits back at Ibra
Friday 17 September, 2010
Arrigo Sacchi has hit back at Milan striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic telling him that he must learn to respect other people.

Ibrahimovic attacked Sacchi in an interview on Mediaset following Milan's victory over Ajax on Wednesday evening.

The Sweden international striker caused a real stir by advising the former Milan Coach to shut up.

Writing in La Gazzetta dello Sport, Sacchi said: Ibrahimovic got his timing wrong.

I certainly haven't argued with him and I am only limited to respond with the utmost calm that it's my right to express an opinion while clarifying that I have never offended him and I have never lacked respect.

But perhaps Zlatan was tired after the match or maybe even badly advised. Perhaps he didn't even know of the great affection and the great respect with which Berlusconi, Galliani and the Milan fans honour me.

Perhaps Ibrahimovic is offended because last year, I wrote and I said that Barcelona had signed the best soloist in the world as far as power, technique and physique are concerned, but that a soloist finds it difficult to fit into an orchestra.

But I added that if Guardiola were to manage to make him play more with the team and for the team, something fundamental in modern football, he would have become the greatest player in the world.

Without any rancour, I wish him the best and invite him to show greater respect towards technical opinions, especially if they are expressed by someone who has done something in football.

-football-italia.net-
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Cheb Hamouda

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Cheb Hamouda on Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:07 am

hahaha... fuck Ibra and his arrogant personality, how can you fuck with SACCHI???? is he crazy that man is king in Milano!

What a Dilemma this is... Ibra is our 'saviour' but I cannot admire a person with this profile! Where is Maldini to teach him some respect?
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bluenine

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by bluenine on Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:09 pm

Cheb Hamouda wrote:hahaha... fuck Ibra and his arrogant personality, how can you fuck with SACCHI???? is he crazy that man is king in Milano!

What a Dilemma this is... Ibra is our 'saviour' but I cannot admire a person with this profile! Where is Maldini to teach him some respect?

Thats the problem with Ibra. I hope he realises that it works both ways... Inter fans forgot about him the day he left, there was no connection inspite of him playing such a large role in our glory. It is the same everywhere. If you show no respect, you get none. If you act like a mercenary, you get treated like one.

A & K

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by A & K on Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:50 pm


Who was that he kicked? Seedorf?
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Cheb Hamouda

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Cheb Hamouda on Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:41 am

bluenine wrote:
Cheb Hamouda wrote:hahaha... fuck Ibra and his arrogant personality, how can you fuck with SACCHI???? is he crazy that man is king in Milano!

What a Dilemma this is... Ibra is our 'saviour' but I cannot admire a person with this profile! Where is Maldini to teach him some respect?

Thats the problem with Ibra. I hope he realises that it works both ways... Inter fans forgot about him the day he left, there was no connection inspite of him playing such a large role in our glory. It is the same everywhere. If you show no respect, you get none. If you act like a mercenary, you get treated like one.
Exactly, I liked it when our team was filled with not only great players on the field, but off the field they were also exemplary. No one would speak badly about the likes of Maldini, Shevchenko, Kaka, Cafu, Nesta, Pirlo and even our most villified player 'Gattuso' (they called him dirty I never understood) was a very fair player, he was rough on the field but I could never see him as someone you could hate.
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Six

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Re: AC Milan 2010-11

Post by Six on Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:12 pm

Alive and Kicking wrote:

Who was that he kicked? Seedorf?

No Seedorf would probably have smacked him one. It's some kid called Strasser who Ibra has decided to bully, you know cos he's a c**t like that.

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