I know it's just the start of the season, rather anecdotal and that it won't last long but except in the liga there have been some pretty bad start of the season for several big clubs :

Bundesliga

1. Mayence 16 points
...
9. Bayern -- 5 points
17. Wolfsburg --3 points
18. Schalke 04 -- 0 point

Schalke, 4 games and as many defeats, worst start ever.
"It is my worst day at Schalke but it's also one of my worst days in football. I haven't started a season with four losses very often," Schalke coach Felix Magath said. "We never got them under control and Dortmund pounced on us."

As for Bayern, they have just five points in its worst Bundesliga start in 34 years.

Ligue 1

With five points from five games, it’s Lyon’s worst start to a league season since 1995. A former French powerhouse, Saint-Etienne is enjoying its best start in the league since the 1980-81 season.

Table
1. St Etienne -- 13 points
2. Toulouse-- 13 points
...
13.Bordeaux -- 7 points
17. Lyon -- 5 points
19. Auxerre -- 4 points

E.P.L
1. Chelsea --15 points
.....
16. Liverpool -- 5 points
19. Everton -- 2 points
It's Liverpool equal worst start to a season since 1992 - 93 and Everton's worst start for 16 years.

Serie A
Althought the Serie A has started after the other leagues, things are not looking good for Roma, Fiorentina and Udinese. Cesena freshly promoted top the league.

Table

1. Cesena -7 points
2. Inter Milan- 7 points
...
17. Roma-- 2 points
19. Fiorentina -- 1 point
20. Udinese - 0 pts

Other leagues like la Liga, la Superliga, Dutch Eredivisie seem normal, the big teams are at the top. In Turkey Bursaspor top the league, Galatasarai and Fenerahce are 7th and 9th.

World cup effect, new manager, new teams in the C.L with too many games to play and not enough players to play all the games?

Football is becoming much more competitive, smaller teams have a reason to exist these days. This is all a result of the measures taken by Platinis reign at UEFA and the new broadcasting rights in these european leagues which results in a more equal way of spending the revenue of the league and more chance of competing in europe for smaller clubs giving them the experience they lacked before.

The one thing I will say in our(Liverpool's) defence is that...
we have played 3 of the top 5 teams last season(Arsenal at home + Man U and City away), this season already. We also played Birmingham away, who since returning to the EPL last season have made St.Andrews a fortress. So again, our start was fairly tough.

Performance/tactically wise we've been very poor though and we deserve our current position in the table. Our next 2 fixtures are at home to Sunderland and Blackpool. Anything less than 6 points doesn't bare thinking about.

Re: Everton, have always been terrible starters to a league. They'll eventually pick up and finish top half. Sadly.

FC Groningen has had it's best start *ever*

We're joined second together with PSV, but we'll lose away to them next week...and then at least the hype will disappear

Ade wrote:The one thing I will say in our(Liverpool's) defence is that...
we have played 3 of the top 5 teams last season(Arsenal at home + Man U and City away), this season already. We also played Birmingham away, who since returning to the EPL last season have made St.Andrews a fortress. So again, our start was fairly tough.

Performance/tactically wise we've been very poor though and we deserve our current position in the table. Our next 2 fixtures are at home to Sunderland and Blackpool. Anything less than 6 points doesn't bare thinking about.

Re: Everton, have always been terrible starters to a league. They'll eventually pick up and finish top half. Sadly.

Well, a championship team needs to defeat the big teams, Liverpools best run came two seasons ago when they were able to defeat Man Utd twice and got good results vs Chelsea and Arsenal (sorry I forgot the outcomes).

Liverpool have a good squad at their disposal, especially in midfield, the problem is that they dont have enough people going forward. If it were up to me I would play Kuyt behind Torres as SS, Maxi on the right, Cole on the left (although I dont like his performances from the brief moments I saw him play) and Poulsen and Gerrard as CMs is very good it allows Gerrard to see alot of the ball unlike last season.

Cheb Hamouda wrote:

Ade wrote:The one thing I will say in our(Liverpool's) defence is that...
we have played 3 of the top 5 teams last season(Arsenal at home + Man U and City away), this season already. We also played Birmingham away, who since returning to the EPL last season have made St.Andrews a fortress. So again, our start was fairly tough.

Performance/tactically wise we've been very poor though and we deserve our current position in the table. Our next 2 fixtures are at home to Sunderland and Blackpool. Anything less than 6 points doesn't bare thinking about.

Re: Everton, have always been terrible starters to a league. They'll eventually pick up and finish top half. Sadly.

Well, a championship team needs to defeat the big teams, Liverpools best run came two seasons ago when they were able to defeat Man Utd twice and got good results vs Chelsea and Arsenal (sorry I forgot the outcomes).

Liverpool have a good squad at their disposal, especially in midfield, the problem is that they dont have enough people going forward. If it were up to me I would play Kuyt behind Torres as SS, Maxi on the right, Cole on the left (although I dont like his performances from the brief moments I saw him play) and Poulsen and Gerrard as CMs is very good it allows Gerrard to see alot of the ball unlike last season.

The season you're thinking about was 08/09. We won against Chelsea home and away. We drew with Arsenal/Arshavin twice also. We had the best record that season against the rest of the Big 4. Good times

The thing is we aren't a *sigh* title contending team anymore. The vast amount of sensible Reds know where our priority lies and that is getting back into the CL. We are already facing a huge uphill task in that. I'd be shocked if we were to achieve that.

It's one thing having a decent sized squad but having a decent sized squad with players who are certainly not decent doesn't help.

As for how we should line up for the most part, IMO -

-- -- -- -- -- -- Reina

Kelly -- Kyriakos -- Agger -- Konchesky

-- -- -- -- Meireles -- Poulsen -- -- -- --

Cole -- -- -- -- Gerrard -- -- -- Pacheco

-- -- -- -- -- -- Torres -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Kuyt(played as a ST not winger), Lucas(starts as DM alongside Meireles/sub for Gerrard) and Babel(RW/ST) are decent back up to come off the bench.

Despite still being a little annoyed with dropping two points in the last kick of the game at the weekend eleven points from five games is still a decent enough start for me.

Compared to recent seasons after five games:

09/10: 9 points
08/09: 12 points
07/08: 13 points
06/07: 8 points
05/06: 9 points

Yes it's not too bad, hopes the dinamic stays the same

Ade wrote:

Cheb Hamouda wrote:

Ade wrote:The one thing I will say in our(Liverpool's) defence is that...
we have played 3 of the top 5 teams last season(Arsenal at home + Man U and City away), this season already. We also played Birmingham away, who since returning to the EPL last season have made St.Andrews a fortress. So again, our start was fairly tough.

Performance/tactically wise we've been very poor though and we deserve our current position in the table. Our next 2 fixtures are at home to Sunderland and Blackpool. Anything less than 6 points doesn't bare thinking about.

Re: Everton, have always been terrible starters to a league. They'll eventually pick up and finish top half. Sadly.

Well, a championship team needs to defeat the big teams, Liverpools best run came two seasons ago when they were able to defeat Man Utd twice and got good results vs Chelsea and Arsenal (sorry I forgot the outcomes).

Liverpool have a good squad at their disposal, especially in midfield, the problem is that they dont have enough people going forward. If it were up to me I would play Kuyt behind Torres as SS, Maxi on the right, Cole on the left (although I dont like his performances from the brief moments I saw him play) and Poulsen and Gerrard as CMs is very good it allows Gerrard to see alot of the ball unlike last season.

The season you're thinking about was 08/09. We won against Chelsea home and away. We drew with Arsenal/Arshavin twice also. We had the best record that season against the rest of the Big 4. Good times

The thing is we aren't a *sigh* title contending team anymore. The vast amount of sensible Reds know where our priority lies and that is getting back into the CL. We are already facing a huge uphill task in that. I'd be shocked if we were to achieve that.

It's one thing having a decent sized squad but having a decent sized squad with players who are certainly not decent doesn't help.

As for how we should line up for the most part, IMO -

-- -- -- -- -- -- Reina

Kelly -- Kyriakos -- Agger -- Konchesky

-- -- -- -- Meireles -- Poulsen -- -- -- --

Cole -- -- -- -- Gerrard -- -- -- Pacheco

-- -- -- -- -- -- Torres -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Kuyt(played as a ST not winger), Lucas(starts as DM alongside Meireles/sub for Gerrard) and Babel(RW/ST) are decent back up to come off the bench.

Liverpool need more time because half of the team has been changed. The problem is that they can't as pressure on Hodson is increasing more and more

Alive and Kicking wrote:

Ade wrote:

Cheb Hamouda wrote:

Ade wrote:The one thing I will say in our(Liverpool's) defence is that...
we have played 3 of the top 5 teams last season(Arsenal at home + Man U and City away), this season already. We also played Birmingham away, who since returning to the EPL last season have made St.Andrews a fortress. So again, our start was fairly tough.

Performance/tactically wise we've been very poor though and we deserve our current position in the table. Our next 2 fixtures are at home to Sunderland and Blackpool. Anything less than 6 points doesn't bare thinking about.

Re: Everton, have always been terrible starters to a league. They'll eventually pick up and finish top half. Sadly.

Well, a championship team needs to defeat the big teams, Liverpools best run came two seasons ago when they were able to defeat Man Utd twice and got good results vs Chelsea and Arsenal (sorry I forgot the outcomes).

Liverpool have a good squad at their disposal, especially in midfield, the problem is that they dont have enough people going forward. If it were up to me I would play Kuyt behind Torres as SS, Maxi on the right, Cole on the left (although I dont like his performances from the brief moments I saw him play) and Poulsen and Gerrard as CMs is very good it allows Gerrard to see alot of the ball unlike last season.

The season you're thinking about was 08/09. We won against Chelsea home and away. We drew with Arsenal/Arshavin twice also. We had the best record that season against the rest of the Big 4. Good times

The thing is we aren't a *sigh* title contending team anymore. The vast amount of sensible Reds know where our priority lies and that is getting back into the CL. We are already facing a huge uphill task in that. I'd be shocked if we were to achieve that.

It's one thing having a decent sized squad but having a decent sized squad with players who are certainly not decent doesn't help.

As for how we should line up for the most part, IMO -

-- -- -- -- -- -- Reina

Kelly -- Kyriakos -- Agger -- Konchesky

-- -- -- -- Meireles -- Poulsen -- -- -- --

Cole -- -- -- -- Gerrard -- -- -- Pacheco

-- -- -- -- -- -- Torres -- -- -- -- -- -- --

Kuyt(played as a ST not winger), Lucas(starts as DM alongside Meireles/sub for Gerrard) and Babel(RW/ST) are decent back up to come off the bench.

Liverpool need more time because half of the team has been changed. The problem is that they can't as pressure on Hodson is increasing more and more

Or we wait for more time to pass, using players who shouldn't be in the starting XI while not really progressing.

- Carragher, who has sadly lost it and has done for some time.
- Johnson, a player who does not possess any intelligence to defending(even his attacks are predictable).
- Maxi, a player who continually disappears in the majority of games he plays.
- Jovanvic, I might be a bit harsh on him but I don't see anything other head down and run player who can't cross the
ball.

As for Hodgson and pressure. Well I think a lot of it is self-inflicted. 2 examples -

4-4-2 away in the league, away to Manchester City(with 3 DM/CM's) was a suicidal move. Utterly stupid decision and the result it was a 3-0 win for City.

Having grabbed the equaliser yesterday vs ManU he wanted us to sit back. His post match comments and subs prove this. Undeservedly as it would have been had we got a result, we had United on the ropes as they became very sloppy for another 10 minutes after the 2nd goal and a 3rd goal for us was not out of the question.

Also his post-match interviews are frankly disturbing to hear from a Liverpool manager.

Trust me when I say I really want him to do well. But like Rafa.. he's his own worst enemy it seems and when it's bad it is really bad.

Sammy Lee is our manager. Hodgson is merely our tactical director.

To me the most important thing is not losing at the beginning of the season - that is, for clubs that aspire to mount a challenge for the title. It builds confidence. Dropping points with draws is not so important - unless there's a team like Chelsea around who run away with a perfect score.