how much longer will uefa let italian clubs get away with their fans violence. if it was enlish

sorry meant to say ...... if it was english fans, platini and co would ban us from european competitions

scouseproud wrote:how much longer will uefa let italian clubs get away with their fans violence. if it was enlish

What fans violence are you specifically refering to?

scouseproud wrote:sorry meant to say ...... if it was english fans, platini and co would ban us from european competitions

No they wouldn't

Calm down

bluenine wrote:

scouseproud wrote:how much longer will uefa let italian clubs get away with their fans violence. if it was enlish

What fans violence are you specifically refering to?

Some scousers got stabbed in Italy, it was outside the stadium though so how much they can do is limited. Stabbing people because they support another team indicates a fucked up mentality though.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21102010/58/europa-league-liverpool-fans-stabbed-naples.html

Kimbo wrote:

bluenine wrote:

scouseproud wrote:how much longer will uefa let italian clubs get away with their fans violence. if it was enlish

What fans violence are you specifically refering to?

Some scousers got stabbed in Italy, it was outside the stadium though so how much they can do is limited. Stabbing people because they support another team indicates a fucked up mentality though.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21102010/58/europa-league-liverpool-fans-stabbed-naples.html

I completely agree, sadly it's a problem that poisons quite a few nations

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/40738-10-stabbed-as-chelsea-and-spurs-fans-clash

Italian media also reported drunken Liverpool fans throwing bottles at Napoli fans.

Pathetic from both sides really, but at least kept the trouble away from the stadium and more difficult to police, hence why the Italian government issued english clubs with instructions and advice on what areas to keep away from, it's a sad state when something as insignificant as football is a matter of physical risk to display support for your team but it's been a sociological problem in some areas and virtually every country on earth since the day it was incepted.

Kimbo wrote:

bluenine wrote:

scouseproud wrote:how much longer will uefa let italian clubs get away with their fans violence. if it was enlish

What fans violence are you specifically refering to?

Some scousers got stabbed in Italy, it was outside the stadium though so how much they can do is limited. Stabbing people because they support another team indicates a fucked up mentality though.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21102010/58/europa-league-liverpool-fans-stabbed-naples.html

There are people with fucked up mentality in every part of the globle unfortunately. They are a small minority, but they exist everywhere.

It is my experience that such incidents don't usually happen to sensible people. Usually at least one side has criminal intent, and both sides have huge amounts of drunken/drugged stupidity. I am sure most of us have been near such volatile situations... earlier this year, the day before the CL final in madrid, I came close to such an incident... About 2-300 fans gathered in that square in Madrid where Real celebrate all their title wins (Plaza Mayor?), and a singing/slogan shouting content started between Inter and Bayern fans... its was all in good spirit, and I remember even taking the lead a few times, entering the "neutral zone" (between the two groups) with some Inter chants....then suddenly a group of Bayern fans interupted us in the "neutral zone", and I remember 1 of them was sloshed and had that look that he was looking for a fight... My friend & I both just walked away, we just had a feeling that even if we had carried on with good natured chanting, that guy would ve started a fight... later, some of my friends told me that a fight did erupt half an hour later, and some bottles were broken, but fans walked away and no one got hurt...

I have seen this scenario many times before... and a momentary lapse of objectivity can result in you getting stabbed. Coz there are some fucked up people everywhere, and you just have to be careful in a foreign city. Generally Italian fans shy away from such scenario's in a foriegn country just like I did, no matter how drunk they are. Sometimes English fans don't do that when they are drunk. Its probably a cultural thing, I have some really good friends here who behave a bit differently when drunk. Its not restricted to the English tho, I have seen drunk fans from other European countries lookin for a fight before or after a game...

Not saying that this is what happened, but this is what usually happens... there were some local criminal elements around and some drunk away fans decided to be "brave"...

Its sad. But its outside the stadium, and clubs cannot be held accounted for that.

I don't know that such people do exist everywhere. I've never heard of Ghana fans stabbing rival supporters, for example. I could be wrong.

bluenine wrote:

Kimbo wrote:

bluenine wrote:

scouseproud wrote:how much longer will uefa let italian clubs get away with their fans violence. if it was enlish

What fans violence are you specifically refering to?

Some scousers got stabbed in Italy, it was outside the stadium though so how much they can do is limited. Stabbing people because they support another team indicates a fucked up mentality though.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/21102010/58/europa-league-liverpool-fans-stabbed-naples.html

There are people with fucked up mentality in every part of the globle unfortunately. They are a small minority, but they exist everywhere.

It is my experience that such incidents don't usually happen to sensible people. Usually at least one side has criminal intent, and both sides have huge amounts of drunken/drugged stupidity. I am sure most of us have been near such volatile situations... earlier this year, the day before the CL final in madrid, I came close to such an incident... About 2-300 fans gathered in that square in Madrid where Real celebrate all their title wins (Plaza Mayor?), and a singing/slogan shouting content started between Inter and Bayern fans... its was all in good spirit, and I remember even taking the lead a few times, entering the "neutral zone" (between the two groups) with some Inter chants....then suddenly a group of Bayern fans interupted us in the "neutral zone", and I remember 1 of them was sloshed and had that look that he was looking for a fight... My friend & I both just walked away, we just had a feeling that even if we had carried on with good natured chanting, that guy would ve started a fight... later, some of my friends told me that a fight did erupt half an hour later, and some bottles were broken, but fans walked away and no one got hurt...

I have seen this scenario many times before... and a momentary lapse of objectivity can result in you getting stabbed. Coz there are some fucked up people everywhere, and you just have to be careful in a foreign city. Generally Italian fans shy away from such scenario's in a foriegn country just like I did, no matter how drunk they are. Sometimes English fans don't do that when they are drunk. Its probably a cultural thing, I have some really good friends here who behave a bit differently when drunk. Its not restricted to the English tho, I have seen drunk fans from other European countries lookin for a fight before or after a game...

Not saying that this is what happened, but this is what usually happens... there were some local criminal elements around and some drunk away fans decided to be "brave"...

Its sad. But its outside the stadium, and clubs cannot be held accounted for that.

Liking this post

Whilst there is definitely an element in English football of alpha males not wanting to back down or walk away in situations like the one you gave above, part of the problem is that the reputation of English football is still somewhat skewed on the continent.

Not that is helps at all given the British film industry wallows in the marketing of this repuation (think of the countless British hooligan flicks like Green Street, the Firm, Football Factory, ID etc), but those in Europe wanting a fight see the opportunity of doing so against travelling English fans as something not to be missed.

So for the minority of English dickheads who do go aborad, get drunk and throw a few bottles / refuse to back down (most of these guys being barristers, Accountants and Marketing Managers nowadays as opposed to the working class fellas who started it all off back in the 70s), the sad result appears to be that all English fans are treated as fair game - both to rival hooligan gangs and even the police (think of that infamous night when Man United were in Rome and the police charged the entire away end, hitting women and young kids in the process. One of my mates was there that night with his wife, and he saw a girl get batoned in the face infront of them. Will never go back to Rome now to watch football because of it)

The example Pirlo gives of the Chelsea Spurs riot - the major difference here is that the hooligans kept it amongst themselves.

Due to the reputation of English fans in Europe, what you find is that all fans - like the family who were attacked in Naples going back to their hotel - get targetted by the Ultras.

By the way, my mate who went to Rome has also been to watch Man United in Milan on a few occassions, and apart from the odd unsavoury incident in the ground where Milan fans like to welcome the away support by throwing cups of urine and openly pissing down from the stands above, he says he's never felt threatened outside of the stadium. Considering Spurs were also there recently and no reports of trouble, and come to think about it, I cannot think of a report of trouble at Milan / Inter games involving English clubs at all - I wonder if the cosmopolitan nature of Milan means the mentality there is different to staunch Italian bastions of their former empire like Rome anc Naples? Perhaps our Italian friends can expand / set me straight

Naples is just straight up dodgy for any foreigner/non-gang member.

There are some good videos on hooliganism on you tube and I remember this ultra- from Roma I think- who really really hated anyone who was English jsut because of football.
He even told the guy interviewing him that he was lucky thatyh ewas not going to beat him up because he was interviewing him. So hate between different groups do exist everywhere.

I bet some groups of stupid hooligans (maybe not even Napolitans) took the occasion to go and fight against English fans.

Boneyskank wrote:I don't know that such people do exist everywhere. I've never heard of Ghana fans stabbing rival supporters, for example. I could be wrong.

Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it hasn't happened. such people exist everywhere.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa/05/10/stadium.stampede.02/

Up to 125 people have been killed and hundreds injured in a stampede at a football stadium in Ghana.

with five minutes left in the game when some supporters began throwing bottles and chairs onto the field

EVERYWHERE

Noah and the Bale wrote:Due to the reputation of English fans in Europe, what you find is that all fans - like the family who were attacked in Naples going back to their hotel - get targetted by the Ultras.

Good point on the reputation... perhaps every fucked up wannabe hooligan in continental europe wants to stab Vinnie Jones!! Like in the case of gunfighters in the wild west, reputation usually leads to more trouble.

Glenns Gone Wild wrote:

Boneyskank wrote:I don't know that such people do exist everywhere. I've never heard of Ghana fans stabbing rival supporters, for example. I could be wrong.

Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't mean it hasn't happened. such people exist everywhere.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/africa/05/10/stadium.stampede.02/

Up to 125 people have been killed and hundreds injured in a stampede at a football stadium in Ghana.

with five minutes left in the game when some supporters began throwing bottles and chairs onto the field

EVERYWHERE

Have another go.

I don't know if this is what happened in Naples but in Rome the manu fans that were stabbed were stabbed in the buttocks kind of sneakily as someone walked passed behind them. I guess the guys doing the stabbing then went bragging to their mates that they'd "stabbed an English hooligan".

Another thing is that fans are told which areas of a city to avoid. Kind of like even where you live there are some places you shouldn't go at night. If you then decide to go there to "have a look", then you're contributing to your own stabbing.