2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

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Ä

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Ä on Mon May 02, 2011 11:56 am

it's a temporary setback for Dortmund

but ultimately, GOOD news for GERMAN football

Sahin plays for TURKEY and Gündogan WANTS to play for DEUTSCHLAND

Ale

let the RISE of Gündogan COMMENCE

and NEVER forget

in a FEW years everybody will agree

Gündogan >>>> Özil

and

as always

you heard it HERE first

cheers

PS

has anybody noticed that the "German" Bundesliga players LEAVING the Vaterland tend to be mostly with "Migrationshintergrund" ???

J Boateng, K-P Boateng, Merkel, Khedira, Özil, Sahin, Odonkor, Kuranyi...

vs

HUUUUTH, Hinkel, Hitz, Mad Jens...

strange, me thinks

Schweini, Lahm, Neuer, Jansen, Kiessling and MANY other were/are happy to stay in the Bundesliga

I wonder what that means
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon May 02, 2011 12:02 pm

lol! otto...

[polemic]If you want us to lose a few more finals, please continue to endorse Ballack...[/polemic)

Ballack's ship has sailed. He has been unlucky and it wasn't even his fault, but that's life. He still may have a year or two good years in him, but considering the competition on his position, that's just not enough. He won't get any better, it's a whole lot more likely that he'll get worse, while his competition won't. And it's not just Khedira, but Bender(s), Kroos, Gündogan, you name them. Ballack will turn 35 this September, give it a rest already.
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Ä

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Ä on Mon May 02, 2011 12:24 pm

that is AGEISM of the

WORST kind



what the fuck do I care about a player's BIRTHDAY

scratch

I care about his PERFORMANCES

WHEN you do NOT know how good somebody is you can look at a few stats and figures and ASSUME that at the age of 34 a player MAY be past it

AGREED

BUT

when you WATCH him week in and week out, the ONLY thing that should count is his PERFORMANCE /quality irrespective of the rest

and in Ballack's case, that has been on par for the MANNSCHAFT

ie

it is YOU, blut, who has AGENDAS on here and is NOT interested in his LEISTUNG

talking about pots , kettles and black colour patterns
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon May 02, 2011 12:37 pm

Ageism? If you haven't figured it out already, the next major tournament is 15 months away. 15 months for Ballack to get injured again, fall into a slump again, simply age further. 15 months for his young competition to improve, to gain experience and establish themselves. You do the math otto.

Be honest otto, the real reason why you want Khedira (and Özil, just waiting for the slightest 'justification' to do so) out is that those 'Johnny Foreigners' had the chutzpa not to sing the national anthem. You had an agenda ever since, this has nothing to do with talent.
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Fey

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Fey on Mon May 02, 2011 6:15 pm

Well done to Dortmund Ale

Together with Schalke, Bayern and HSV my favourite clubs in Germany!

At the beginning of the season I was hoping one of these four would win the league, and that Bremen and Stuttgart were relegated!

Completely deserved, and showed Wenger you can win silverware with kids!

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Kroos

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Kroos on Mon May 02, 2011 6:29 pm

no wenger cant

his philosophy sucks
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon May 02, 2011 6:53 pm

The difference is that Klopp built the team from the back. The first 1-2 years, he concentrated on building a strong defence and teached them to defend very effectively as a team. Then he concentrated on improving the attack, fine-tuning the passing game, by giving Sahin a more prominent role in the central midfield in particular. First the foundation, then the fine-tuning.

Wish Schaaf would learn a thing or two in that regard.
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Xavier

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Xavier on Mon May 02, 2011 9:37 pm

Ä wrote:
Xavier wrote:
Ä wrote:next season could be tough for Kroos' calculator

a young and inexperienced Dortmund in the CL scratch

Vizekusen under inexperienced DUTT with a youngish team scratch

Mainz (without Schürrle and Holtby) and Hannover in the Europa League scratch

I guess Bayern will have to WIN it in Munich next year.
Don't forget Schalke in the EL (provided they can beat Duisburg in the Cup final)... they will probably do better than Mainz and Hannover if they can find a decent coach .

I don't understand

you think Schalke will sack Rangnick ?! scratch
IF they find a decent coach, so IF they sack Rangnick... I don't think that he has what it takes to manage Schalke in a successful way, and I hope that the club realizes this sooner rather than later.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon May 02, 2011 10:22 pm

Borussia Dortmund a cut above as title is secured in hair-raising style

Even the worst haircut in Bundesliga history couldn't spoil the celebrations as Dortmund claimed their seventh Meisterschaft

by Raphael Honigstein

Football has a funny way of turning universally held truisms on their head in an instant. Saturday afternoon was a case in point. For months, the German public and its media had revelled in the superlatives, revved up the hyperboles, ripped up the record books. The title seemed so deserved, so assured, so indisputable.

But then a few seconds on the Westfalenstadion pitch changed everything, when a razor-sharp intervention from Dortmund's Felipe Santana proved all assumptions wrong. Inexplicably, everything changed: Kevin Grosskreutz's village-idiot-bastard-son-of-Michael-Bolton-and-Rumpelstiltskin barnet – the 22-year-old had stopped going to the barber's shortly after Christmas, in anticipation of the championship – was not worthy of the "worst haircut in Bundesliga history" tag after all.

Grosskreutz, sensationally, managed to go one, ahem, better, sporting a style so hideous and demonstrably wrong that it will never be topped. Not even the fabled Mike Werner could come close to Santana's hellish concoction, the three-quarter-shaven-egg-with-rat-fur look.

Fortunately for Borussia fans, Santana's misguided clipper action was the only less than perfect episode on a sunny day fit for a fairytale. In front of 80,000 expectant supporters, Jürgen Klopp's men brushed aside Nürnberg with two goals and reached the promised land of their seventh Meisterschaft courtesy of another classic Leverkusen collapse (a 2-0 defeat at Köln). Cue regulation beer-showers for the coach and various TV reporters, tears of joy (Nuri Sahin, Mats Hummels) and two weeks of "emergency rule" (club president Reinhard Rauball) in the city.

Black and yellow, black and yellow, black and yellow. Uh-huh, that's what it is. This year. Two years ago, little but rich VfL Wolfsburg were the surprise winners, two years before that it had been Stuttgart's turn. But Dortmund, the youngest ever team to win the league, are something extra-special. "No disrespect to the guys from the 50s but in my view this is the biggest success in the history of the club," said Michael Zorc. The sporting director won the Champions League with Borussia as a player in 1997 but felt that this side had achieved more. "No one expected us to have a chance, let alone dominate the Bundesliga to such an extent," he said. "When we won previous titles, we were at least among the favourites."

It's worth remembering at this point that the club was nearly bankrupt around six years ago. Capacity crowds and their standing as one of Germany's best-supported sides still enable them to pay very decent wages but they'll frustrate many a modern football supporter who slaves over spreadsheets, trying to prove that a rival's net spend was at least 7.94% higher since 1973. The most expensive regular, the Polish striker Robert Lewandowski, cost €4.75m (£4.2m).

Klopp, the architect of the amazing transformation from also-rans to champions in three years – Dortmund had finished 13th in the table before the 43-year-old took over in the summer of 2008 – was for once too exhausted to let himself go. "I thought it would feel better, more euphoric," he said, almost apologetically. "Perhaps the pressure on us was a little stronger than we were prepared to admit."

Dortmund have led the table since mid-October but a row of indifferent results in recent weeks had brought the prospect of failure into focus. It would have been a travesty, however, if meek Leverkusen or indeed Bayern had pipped Kloppo's disciples to the trophy. Borussia were by far the best, perhaps even the only true team of the season: a collective of humble, super-fit and very smart players who were prepared to leave their egos outside the dressing room. "This team is emblematic of the kind of paradigm shift in German football that the national team stands for," wrote Der Spiegel. "Young professionals, technically and tactically well educated, aware of their own strengths but never arrogant – Dortmund is like a miniature of the national side." The comparison is apt in another sense, too. Rarely was a squad so well liked by the whole of the country. The unusually generous and genuine congratulatory messages from various dignitaries proved as much.

Of course it will be difficult to defend the title while navigating the Champions League next year, especially in light of the likely departure of midfield maestro Nur Sahin who is about to defect to the dark side: Real Madrid are reportedly ready to trigger a €12m release clause. But it would be churlish to concentrate on the future prospects of the team at the expense of celebrating the thrill of the present. There will be plenty of time to worry over the summer.

It was a measure of Borussia's popularity that Bild, the high priests of the lowest common denominator, couldn't make up their mind on Saturday and Sunday: what was the bigger, more moving story, royal wedding or Dortmund's party? In a weird effort to serve everyone, the online version of the tabloid juxtaposed William and Kate's kiss with that of Klopp and Mrs Klopp, the reassuringly blond Ulla, then followed through by putting the family photo from Buckingham Palace next to a shot of the Borussia boys holding hands. It was unclear what all of that was supposed to mean, apart from one thing, perhaps. Turns out the Queen's much-criticised sponsorship deal with Chiquita Banana was actually right on the money. Just like Her Majesty's garb, this season's stars are all yellow.

Talking points

• By the time Schalke, Dortmund's arch-rivals, kicked off their match at Bayern on Saturday night, it couldn't really get much worse for the Royal Blues. But it did. Ralf Rangnick's side – ostensibly his best line-up – were quite possibly even more inept than they were at home against Manchester United last Tuesday and lucky to get away with a 4-1 defeat. Thanks to Hannover's 0-1 defeat at home to Gladbach earlier in the day, Bayern were able to reclaim third spot and revert to characteristic humility. "We won't give up that place now, that's for sure", said Thomas Müller, scorer of the second and fourth goals.

The emphatic win came in the wake of plenty of FC Hollywood-type behaviour. Arjen Robben had kicked off proceedings by implicitly criticising a lack of leadership in the side since the Louis Van Gaal-enforced departure of Mark van Bommel in January, only to be outdone by Bastian Schweinsteiger, who attacked a Sport-Bild journalist with the sort of language more readily found in Bierkeller toilets. "You're a liar, a pisser, an arsehole," Schweini told the offending scribe at a midweek press conference. His crime? He'd penned an article demeaning the midfielder as a "Chefchen" – a "little boss" without much standing in the dressing room.

Schweinstiger, like the rest of the side, played well enough to render that debate superfluous. The second half in the Allianz Arena was so uneventful, in fact, that vast sections of the ground had time to shout down anti-Manuel Neuer chants from a small band of hardcore supporters. The unusual intervention from the hitherto silent majority will have smoothed the keeper's path southwards; all that stands between the 25-year-old and his transfer to Bayern now is a rather hefty disagreement over price. A first offer in the region of €14m (£12.5m) was turned down flat by the S04 sporting director Horst Heldt, who described it as "totally unacceptable". Bayern CEO Karl-Heinz Rummenigge is prepared to play the waiting game ("we have time until 31 August"), but his club's cause wasn't helped by honorary president Franz Beckenbauer, who cheerfully declared that he would spend "€50m" on Neuer. "Maybe he's willing to dip into his own savings," said administrative board member Helmut Markwort, more than a little miffed.

• Stuttgart, 2-1 winners at Hoffenheim are all but save from the drop. Lautern, who won their very own "final" against St Pauli on Friday night, have done enough already. Wolfsburg under Felix Magath show signs of life, too. The 2009 champions won 1-0 away to Bremen to inch closer to safety.

• Frankfurt, who were entertaining thoughts of the Europa League not so long ago notched up another defeat under Christoph Daum. "If we continue playing this badly, we don't have to worry – we'll go straight down", said defender Marco Russ after the 3-0 defeat at Mainz. A few hundred irate Eintracht supporters tried to get into the team bus when it returned on Saturday night, one plain-clothed policeman had to fire a warning shot to escape the angry mob. "Violence is never a solution and doesn't change anything on the pitch", said the beleaguered CEO, Heribert Bruchhagen. The latter part was true, in a very literal sense: Daum had to call off training on Sunday and Monday, as the police could not guarantee the players' safety.

Results: Bremen 0-1 Wolfsburg, Kaiserslautern 2-0 St. Pauli, Dortmund 2-0 Nürnberg, Hamburg 0-2 Freiburg, Mainz 3-0 Frankfurt, Köln 2-0 Leverkusen, Hoffenheim 1-2 Stuttgart, Hannover 0-1 Gladbach, Bayern 4-1 Schalke.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/02/borussia-dortmund-title-hair-raising-style
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sun May 08, 2011 12:20 am

Finally, finally we're saved from relegation and can put an end to this disastrous season. For God's sake, I seriously hope that transfer talks start RIGHT NOW. We have no time to waste, we need build a new team, we basically have to start from scratch.

Good performance by Werder today, but Dortmund couldn't really be bothered, which didn't really come as a surprise.

Frankfurt Ultras are a disgrace. Tradition or not, I'd like to see them relegated just for that. And for the egg on otto's face, of course. Both of his darlings, Skibbe and Daum, did some formidable 'team work' and managed Frankfurt straight to relegation. Congratulations.

P.S.: Favre's Gladbach deserve most of the praise these days. They might avoid relegation after all, some incredible performances in the last few weeks. A few weeks ago, nobody would have given them the slightest chance. Respect.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sun May 08, 2011 12:25 am

Oh, and Schalke play like a relegation candidate under Rangnick. They were lucky that they already had 40 points, otherwise things could have gone really bad for them. They've been losing for weeks now, clearly even, which puts their miserable CL performances into perspective.

Going by their current form, I can seriously see Duisburg beating them in the cup final.
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anglophileHedgehog

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by anglophileHedgehog on Sun May 08, 2011 8:39 am

NICHTABSTIEG! cheers Bubbly Minimalstsaisonziel erreicht.

Now please, sack everyone in charge and rebuild the club and the squad.
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Kroos

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Kroos on Sun May 08, 2011 8:49 am



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Ä

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Ä on Sun May 08, 2011 10:48 am

blut, since when I am supposed to have been this massive Skibbe fan ? scratch

as for Daum at Frankfurt: ah well

he only had a few games and could not get the points IMMEDIATELY: these things happen

before I write an essay on the art of management on here, and when/how it works

I will try something far more clever and devious

why not let a WERDER BREMEN LEGEND speak on my behalf ?! Whistle Smile

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub4521147CD87A4D9390DA8578416FA2EC/Doc~E02A3D323EA1A4D57BB38AC615A6E4C71~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

----------------------

PS

Frankfurt playing in the SECOND league is a DISASTER

PPS

unbelievable how Rangnick has fucked up at Schalke

although, cynics will point out that EVERYTHING went pearshaped when CAPTAIN Neuer declared his departure from Schalke WAY BEFORE the end of the season

I think ever since his teary-eyed press conference, Schalke have LOST EVERY SINGLE GAME

7 or so on the trot

whatever Neuer is: an ANFÜHRER with good judgement is most certainly is NOT

more another Lahm Doh

PPS

I don't get what the problem with the Frankfurt fans storming the field is supposed to have been Doh scratch

Eintracht lose the game after an appalling performance and look ALMOST certain to get RELEGATED and a few fans for whom their club is EVERYTHING run onto the pitch afterwards

SO WHAT ?

they DO not attack ANYBODY: not their players, not the opponents, no refs no nothing

they do NOT throw anything and destroy the goal-posts

NOTHING

and it's only a few dozens anyway

yet on Sportschau , the WARMDUSCHER of a commentator PANICS as if 3 WW had broken out

Doh

ah and blut, Bremen NOT getting relegated was REAL CLOSE, wasn't it

Laugh

I wonder how you would have survived as a caveman

where SABRE-TOOTH tigers and mammoths were hiding in the bushes

Whistle

+

leaving Ballack on the bench worked WONDERS, eh ?! Laugh

Heynckes FUCKED up so bad this season you almost feel sorry for him

hilarious to hear Bayer fans shout "SACK HEYNCKES"

AFTERwards

with only one game to go this season

lol!

the TRUTH is: Dutt cannot and WILL not do any worse
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sun May 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Let me sort out your agendas first, you get kinda confused with all this spinning (you probably lost track ages ago yourself): So Heynckes is a bad guy now (the praises were over the top less than a year ago...). So is Skibbe, who I clearly remember to be hyped by you for his os so 'entertainig' philosophy and skills (guess Daum is just even closer to your heart, although it's pretty clear by now that sacking Skibbe mid-season was one of the worst managerial decisions by any club). Frankfurt fans destroying half a million worth of equipment isn't a problem, and Bremen were close to relegation now all of a sudden? Didn't you say that we were saved already? Laughing

Ach otto, if Dead or Alive hadn't wrote that (in-)famous 80s dance track, they would have to write it just for you.

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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon May 09, 2011 12:28 am

The next big thing as far as creative young German attacking midfielders / wingers are concerned...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8TxAC5CYfY

I really rate him and love his style. He's being linked to Dortmund and even Bayern. I like Gladbach and hope that they can keep him a little longer, but this kid is already more than good enough to play for a top club. I'd like him to be called up for the national team, too. Marin and others better watch out.
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Kroos

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Kroos on Mon May 09, 2011 8:54 am

agree, would love if he joins dortmund, he can play in nearly every position in attacking midfield, BVB needs more options

reus, schürrle are very good players, POLDI will have hard times in the future, his game was many times a let down, poldi only works if the team plays well, but if not then poldi is invisible

müller and özil are not to replace in short term, thats for sure, there game is too special
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Ä

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Ä on Mon May 09, 2011 11:45 am

blutgraetsche wrote:Let me sort out your agendas first, you get kinda confused with all this spinning (you probably lost track ages ago yourself): So Heynckes is a bad guy now (the praises were over the top less than a year ago...). So is Skibbe, who I clearly remember to be hyped by you for his os so 'entertainig' philosophy and skills (guess Daum is just even closer to your heart, although it's pretty clear by now that sacking Skibbe mid-season was one of the worst managerial decisions by any club). Frankfurt fans destroying half a million worth of equipment isn't a problem, and Bremen were close to relegation now all of a sudden? Didn't you say that we were saved already? Laughing

Ach otto, if Dead or Alive hadn't wrote that (in-)famous 80s dance track, they would have to write it just for you.


AGAIN

I have always rated and liked Heynckes: still, this season, he has fucked up ; and NO , that is not really a contradiction

I have also always rated and liked Daum: still, in the few games left to SAVE Frankfurt, he has not been a success; and NO, that does not suddenly make him a bad coach, or outdated, as all the stupid hacks believe

Skibbe: I have NEVER been a member of the Skibbe fan club , same applies to Slomka (fuck blut, get real, Skibbe does NOT fit the profile of managers I like AT ALL and you KNOW it) ; BUT, I am willing to acknowledge GOOD work when I see it; so YES, I probably praised Skibbe when he deserved it: getting Frankfurt as high as 4th, I think, is an achievement similar to Slomka's at Hannover; and at Bayer Skibbe had his good moments as well

Magath: just confirmed on Doppelpass that he WILL stay in Wolfsburg NEXT season , even if they get relegated

back to Heynckes at Bayer, with regards to Ballack situation: blut, you are just WRONG when you say Ballack was benched for performance related reasons

it is NOT rtrue

as Jupp himself later admitted and even the Ballack hating Bild said BEFORE the game

http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/michael-ballack/von-heynckes-rasiert-17768298.bild.html

this is from Welt online AFTER the game

"„Letzte Woche hat keiner gefragt, warum Simon Rolfes nicht von Anfang
an spielt. Ich habe 18 gesunde Spieler, das war nur eine Folge der
Rotation
“, beschwichtigte Heynckes."

in other words

Jupp thinks that with 18 players available , there is no reason why captain Rolfes should sit on the bench again, so this time, it was Ballack's turn

boring ROTATION

problem is, the FANS WANT BALLACK

NOT Rolfes

so after 5 minutes they started singing his NAME

Very Happy

leaving Ballack out initially and taking Hyppia out in the 1 st half, meant that the fans would later shout "SACK Heynckes"

ONE game before the end of the season

Laughing Shocked

they were pretty pissed off with Jupp's so called Leistungsprinzip which was just hogwash

and they KNOW it

lol!

in fact the BOARD of the club was so pissed off with Heynckes' treatment of Ballack that Holzhäuser REFUSED to confirm Jupp would still be in charge in the LAST game

the guy wanted to SLEEP on it

lol!

Jupp has now confirmed that he would have left Bayer at the end of the season, irrespective of the offer from Munich

but does not want to divulge the reasons publicly

ie

the board and he had fallen out over the treatment of Ballack

and the FANS are NOT in Jupp's corner



A LOT to think about for you, blut

A LOT

http://www.welt.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/bayer-leverkusen/article13359965/Reservist-Ballack-und-Heynckes-trauriger-Abgang.html

by the way, blut

have you read BODE's interview in FAZ I posted as a link above

even more food for thought for you

for HIM, it's not so much a question of Klinsi/Löw being good and Magath /Völler being bad or the other way round

he comes up with different categories for managers and seems to think it's a question of the circumstances at the club /team whether a manager is a fit or not

think about IT Very Happy

he basically wants YOU to drop your agendas and GET REAL

cheers
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon May 09, 2011 12:42 pm

Bode is a smart guy and I actually enjoyed that interview. Of course you'd take comments of his out of context and use it for your own spins, but let me be clear otto, it's not me who always speaks in absolute terms when it comes to the evaluation of managers and their work, and especially when it comes to players. Löw can't do anything right in your eyes, for example, players you like can't do anything wrong (Kuranyi comes to mind, or Klose). So you better read the interview carefully yourself and maybe, just maybe, can make a first step to escape that black & white world of yours. Smile

Ballack can 'win' as many Vizemeisterschaften for Leverkusen as he likes (they may still even bottle that), his ship has sailed as far as the national team is concerned. And the faster you get rid of this obsession, the better otto. He'll never accept to be just an option coming from the bench (and that's the only place there realistically is left for him in the squad (it remains to be seen how the next season goes first).
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue May 10, 2011 1:51 pm

Bundesliga loses its pirates as Bayern blitz sinks St Pauli

St Pauli fans' fantastic reaction to relegation and an 8-1 defeat highlights why the league's most radical club will be missed

by Raphael Honigstein

Hiring international experts to work on this season's story-lines was a smart move: the product needed some sprucing up and artificial drama in absence of a genuine title fight. But in recent weeks, the two-tone Wayfarer-wearing creatives working in the Deutsche Fussball Liga's underground lair have been pushing the envelope a little too far, at times beyond the edge of credulity. The pressure to come up with ever more bizarre scenarios is obviously so great that we're fast approaching a "jumping the shark" moment.

One shudders at the thought of next week's climax. Massive Spoiler Alert: Christoph Daum will save Eintracht Frankfurt by virtue of a 7-6 away win at the champions Dortmund (Real Madrid-bound Nuri Sahin scores a hat-trick and the decisive own goal in injury time), then light up like Dr Manhattan on the pitch and find his own religious cult. Or something.

Last weekend's penultimate episode was mostly marking time but the script did develop one of the main themes a little further. We've already had a team coming up against a former manager who also happens to be the future manager, and a team playing against a future manager who also happens to be a former manager. The temptation must have been great to throw in a bit of time-travelling at this juncture, to allow the hyper-nomadic Felix Magath (in charge of Wolfsburg, at the time of writing) to sit in both dugouts simultaneously.

Instead, Match Day 33 dreamt up the plot of a manager who leaves the league's most left-leaning, anti-capitalist club for the league's least traditional, unashamedly commercial brand, loses the crucial, last-chance home game 8-1 against much-hated aristocrats from the south to get relegated and receives a euphoric send-off from the crowd, along with the opposition, in the process. No wonder Holger Stanislawski cut such a forlorn figure on the pitch after the final whistle. The 41-year-old must have half-expected a giggling Ashton Kutcher in a dirty muscle vest and trucker cap to emerge from the shadows.

Stani, as they call him at St Pauli, was not in the mood. "When you lose 8-1 and they clap you off the pitch, it's meant to be self-mockery," he said. "But we deserved a good kicking instead. They should have beaten us up today." At Frankfurt (see talking points) they would have been all too happy to oblige but things are different at the Millerntor. Faced with a performance of fantastic ineptitude and historic proportions – it was the highest defeat in the history of the club and Bayern's biggest ever away win in the league, without even playing that well – the Pauli supporters decided to disregard the result altogether.

Stanislawski and his assistant André "Truller" Trulsen, who are both off to the billionaire-founded TSG Hoffenheim, were thanked for the work they had done and forced on to a lap of honour, in recognition that they couldn't really have done much more with their journey-men squad. The 1-0 away win in the derby against Hamburger SV in mid-February proved nothing more than a happy accident: the self-styled Pirates of the Bundesliga hauled in one more solitary point in the next 11 matches. They will finish the season bottom of the table.

Life in the top flight was simply beyond their means but the funeral was certainly first-class. "You won't find it anywhere in the world," said the goalkeeper Thomas Kessler. "You lose 8-1, you're getting massacred and the supporters get up and sing their heart out." There was even applause for Bayern, the very antithesis of St Pauli in many ways, for tactfully refraining from celebrating their third place (and Champions League qualification) too much. It all got so harmonious, in a we-are-all-friends-in-an-acid-warehouse-rave kind of way, that the away supporters were moved to chant "St Pauli" too.

It was the appropriate farewell for the iconic Stanislawski, who has served the club for 18 years as player and manager. The happy relegation party in Hamburg's red-light district also served as a much-needed antidote to the aggressive, hyper-earnest crowd reactions that have sadly become all the rage this season. And yet ... something was a little odd.

Stanislawski, for one, thanked the supporters for "the most emotional moments of my career" but was still deeply unhappy about his men's no-show a day later. "I can only apologise on behalf of the club," he told Mopo. "These 90 minutes will be burnt into my mind forever. You can't leave the Bundesliga this way. It felt as if we were being led to the slaughter."

It would go well beyond this column's word limit to describe all the mistakes the St Pauli players made on the pitch or to flesh out the full extent of their meekness. Those watching this turkey shoot from the safety of their living rooms couldn't help but wonder if Stanislawski and the club hadn't actually lost the match before the first ball was kicked. The Millerntor can be a very intimidating ground and if there was ever a time to raise some hell it was Saturday, when Bayern, notoriously poor on their travels this season, were in town. A home win for Pauli would have given them a decent chance to make it at least to 16th and the play-off against the third-placed team from the second division. A never-say-die attitude, a bit of ruthlessness and determination was needed, both on and off the pitch.

Stanislawski, though, told his players to "be creative" and to enjoy themselves in the dressing room beforehand. A few minutes later, a moving speech from the team manager Christian Bönig, the presentation of a photo and Stanislawski's tearful waving to the crowd made the bitter sweet, peaceful mood reminiscent of the last day at summer camp.

Surely it would have been better to delay the festivities until after the club's most important game of the season? It's difficult to grieve, hug and fight all at the same time. You could see it in the eyes of Arjen Robben and his Bayern team-mates. They relished being there. Like all bullies, they sensed the weakness, and a distinct absence of Eier in their opponents' shorts.

St Pauli will be sadly missed, of course, most of all by those in charge of writing the scripts. You can make all kinds of stuff. Apart from an actual club with socio-political divisions, genuine class-war consciousness, pole dancing girls in the VIP box and a Yo Sushi!-style sausage conveyor belt.

Talking Points

• Conflict of interest part 678,354, when Robin Dutt of SC Freiburg takes on second-placed Bayer Leverkusen next week, Dutt will succeed Jupp Heynckes at the BayArena, who is off to Bayern. The problem: a defeat for second-placed Bayer, who only drew 1-1 at home to Hamburg, may let in Bayern and force Dutt to navigate the vagaries of the Champions League play-off draw (Insert your own "eternal runners-up can't even finish second" joke here). Heynckes, conversely, would be better off losing in view of his next job in Munich. The solution, as suggested by one hack: change the managers around for the last game of the season, so that they can both work in peace and to the best of their abilities.

Leverkusen's sporting director laughed at this innovative approach but the mood has turned so much against Heynckes that he might yet be relieved of his duties a few days before the last game of the season. "It's a strange, weird situation, we would have preferred it differently", said Völler. "But these are stories that football comes up with." Firing a manager for doing exactly what he was supposed to do – Leverkusen wanted to get back into the top three – would be a fittingly absurd finale to this year's managerial madness.

• Srdjan Lakic was the saddest forward in the world again on Saturday. The Croatian striker scored Kaiserslautern's equaliser in the 2-1 away win at Wolfsburg that secured survival for the Red Devils. His team-mates were jumping for joy at the final whistle, but Lakic was busy apologising to the Wolfsburg players, who will be his colleagues next season, possibly in the second division. Felix Magath's side can still go down. "I felt a little sorry for them," Lakic said, and he was entitled to feel a little sorry for himself, too. The Kaiserslautern supporters had booed him for weeks after his transfer in the summer was announced in January, and his future supporters were now doing the same in the Volkswagen Arena. "This is the football," Fabio Capello would say.

• Gladbach, who are 16th, are back in business at the bottom after a 2-0 win over Freiburg but Frankfurt are anything but safe one place below them. Christoph Daum's team looked frightened in the 2-0 home defeat by Köln and not even the great motivator himself was able to impart some pearls of optimistic, new age-tinged wisdom. "Today, I have to get by with platitudes," said the manager. The diehard supporters were not appeased by the honesty and embarked on a short-lived pitch invasion before the combined forces of riot police and Eintracht's president, Peter Fischer, reined them back in. In his attempt to calm the public anger Fischer told supporters that the club would now have to beat "fucking BVB [Dortmund]" next week to stave off relegation, a self-evident statement let down by his choice of words. Fischer apologised but the champions are not best pleased and also a little worried that an angry Frankfurt mob might disrupt their trophy celebration. There will be a teary farewell for Nuri Sahin, too, by the way, but the final twist may still be subject to one or two rewrites between now and Saturday, 17.20h CET.

Results: Schalke 1-3 Mainz, Stuttgart 2-1 Hannover, St Pauli 1-8 Bayern, Bremen 2-0 Dortmund, Leverkusen 1-1 Hamburg, Frankfurt 0-2 Köln, Gladbach 2-0 Freiburg, Nürnberg 1-2 Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg 1-2 Kaiserslautern.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/10/st-pauli-bundesliga-relegation
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Isco Benny

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Isco Benny on Wed May 11, 2011 5:39 pm

Teutonic Chaps and chapettes,

please can somebody tell me what the hell made Man City pay 27 million pounds for Edin Dzeko?

Now I remember him being fairly decent in the Bundesliga, but currently that big fella couldn't trap a bag of cement playing for City.

Was he ever destined to be a World Class player, or is he just another couple-of-Bundesliga-seasons wonder?
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed May 11, 2011 5:52 pm

Dzeko is good. The special thing about him is that despite being a big and athletic guy, he's skillful, too, a complete striker.

As always when it comes to strikers, confidence is the most important factor. He seems to have none in Manchester. It also doesn't help that he plays for one of the more defensive sides in England, which is the opposite of Wolfsburg in the Bundesliga. And most importantly, it was rather stupid to move in the January transfer window. Those January transfers almost never really work out, especially when it comes to transfers to different leagues, knowing that the players don't have a proper preparation with their new team.

I'd give him another season first before I'd pass judgement. Having a proper preparation with his team and getting used to a different league in the coming weeks will do him good. It remains to be seen if he can become a success for City, as there are a lot of factors to consider. But in principle, he has the talent and especially physical attributes to prevail in England.
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Hlebagone

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Hlebagone on Wed May 11, 2011 7:23 pm

Considering he gets completely isolated when playing for City, he lacks a bit of pace to cause the defenders any problems. In mots games, he is just feeding off scraps, like last night.

Has been pretty underwhelming though.

Sheffield gunner

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Sheffield gunner on Sat May 14, 2011 2:43 pm

lol!

Klose. That one was harder to miss than score.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat May 14, 2011 2:46 pm

Irrelevant match for us today, and obviously, the team has already conceded two goals in less than 10 minutes.

You could never expect this bunch to play decently if they didn't have to, never a good show for the fans after a catastrophic season. Injuries or not, it's just disgraceful how much this team lacks charakter. We don't just need new players, we need different ones, too.
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Kroos

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Kroos on Sat May 14, 2011 2:48 pm

lol klose has done a gomez

also the new bayern kits the most beautiful ive ever seen Smile

i hope leverkusen wins, because i have a feeling they would bottle the cl quali Very Happy
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Antarion

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by Antarion on Sat May 14, 2011 2:51 pm

"Vor dem Spiel kam es zum Eklat bei der Mansnchaftsbesprechung des VfL. Magath wollte den Brasilianer auf die Bank setzten, daraufhin verließ Diego das Mannschaftshotel." - WF Ticker

lol!
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat May 14, 2011 2:52 pm

Magath and a diva like Diego will never work. Expect him to leave Wolfsburg next season, even if they stay in the league (which they hopefully won't - scheiss Plastikclub, den niemand vermissen wird).
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat May 14, 2011 2:56 pm

A lot of drama in Frankfurt. Barrios missed a penalty for Dortmund. If Frankfurt manage to stay up, teir goalie is going to be the hero.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat May 14, 2011 2:57 pm

Bayern choking? Laughing Stuttgart take the lead...

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Re: 2010/2011 – Bundesliga General Discussion Thread

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