Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:29 pm

CONVOCATORIA

Porteros: Casillas, Adán y Mejías.
Defensas: Pepe, Ramos, Marcelo, Coentrão, Arbeloa, Albiol y Varane.
Centrocampistas: Kaká, Özil, Granero, Alonso, Altintop, Callejón y Lass.
Delanteros: Cristiano Ronaldo, Higuaín y Benzema

Lesionados: Di María y Khedira
Fuera por decisión técnica: Carvalho y Sahin bounce
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Super Progress on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:44 pm

Been busy with studying for the exams so missed the game and the aftermath but I kept track of the score which was very annoying as the game went on.

How did the media/fans respond to the game?
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:07 pm

Super Progfather wrote:Been busy with studying for the exams so missed the game and the aftermath but I kept track of the score which was very annoying as the game went on.

How did the media/fans respond to the game?

Both AS and Marca were fairly critical on several points:

1) The lineup - particularly the inclusion of Altintop and Carvalho. Altintop was mostly a disaster. Pretty good in his 1 v 1 battles but his passing was atrocious and he was caught completely out of position watching the ball on the second goal. Carvalho I didn't think was that bad especially considering he had been out since September. I don't know that Varane or Albiol would have done any better. Also criticism of picking Coentrao over Marcelo. I don't particularly agree with this. I think Coentrao was reasonably solid in defense and Marcelo does tend to get raped in the clasicos. He did not have a lot of contribution going forward, but who did?

2) The tactics - Nobody can understand why Mourinho insists on giving Barcelona the ball when having the ball is what they do the best. And as kroos mentioned here, they argued that changing the tactics from the usual is not helpful because the players are not used to playing that way and so when it comes to Barcelona they cannot simply turn the switch and become defensive minded. I don't know if I agree with that entirely because Mourinho has brought a bunch of facking runners for just that purpose. The fact that we play with a more offensive mindset in most games does not change the fact that Lass, for example, is a net defensive player.

3) Pepe - He has been absolutely crucified by the press and I think rightly so. In the first place he was caught completely day dreaming on the corner that Puyol scored. No excuse for such slack marking. And obviously the stamping incident and the feigning an elbow to the face was disgraceful. He has proven throughout his career in Madrid that for all of his excellent attributes he really is a liability because he loses his head way to easily. Both Marca and AS have said he should be sold.

A lot of fans rightly upset after yet another failure. And it is not just the loss but the feeling of complete impotence. To have 25% possession or whatever it is in your own stadium is not really tolerable. The message boards are full of calls for Mourinho and the portuguese clan to f*ck off. A lot people think Jose's "my future is in England" comments in the week prior to the match were deliberate, paving the way for an exit at the end of the season. I don't know if I believe that entirely.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Super Progress on Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:40 pm

I saw the beginning of the match but was busy throughout so I can't really say anything about the tactics but it looked strange to me when I saw the highlights. 3 strikers of sorts and a trivote?

I don't have anything against us not having the ball as long as we are solid and get counters and set pieces and if needed the occasional possession football. affraid

However the defence looked all over the place so perhaps not a good idea to have Altintop come in along with Carvalho who has been out for a while plus Coentrao who isn't a regular in the defence either.

Psychologically the team has become incredibly fragile when up against Barcelona. I was discussing this with a friend of mine who was saying it is simply a question of quality gap but that doesn't explain why Valencia look like a genuine threat against Barcelona while we look crippled. However the Copa is out of the picture which isn't necessarily a bad thing for us since it keeps Barcelona involved with another cup while we can focus on PROGRESSING in the league.

One thing I have pondered is that the trivote might not be enough.(I know Jaime just got a heartattack) because Barca plays with essentially 4-5 midfielders at times so if we want to have the upper hand in midfield we need to have something of similar numbers. Something like a 4-3-2-1 would help to keep the midfield battle crowded. So if we want to play the defensive gameplan then I think this is needed or something like it.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:22 pm

I think we really do need to have the ball a reasonable amount of the time. I don't know, in the 25 or so years that I have been supporting Madrid, if we have ever once had more possession that Barcelona. But 45-55 or 40-60 at least gives us a reasonable break from defending. I always say it but we simply cannot defend for 80 or more minutes. It requires too much energy and when we expend so much energy defending the counter attacks turn into simply hoofing the ball away. And maybe this could be more "effective" if you have Drogba or Manolito but Higuain, Ronaldo, Benzema are not made for that sort of play.

You are right that there is a huge psychological problem. As soon as they scored the first goal I knew they would go on to win. This is really something I blame Jose for. I mean if you look at Capello's team they had such self belief they never believed they were out of any match. They went to the Camp Nou and played that great 3-3 match. And you can say it was different times and different teams and I get that but I don't see that never say die attitude with the current group.

I am not so disappointed about going out of the Copa since we just won it last year as I am for seeing yet another hapless display against Barcelona. I don't buy the argument that it saves our players because we are already to the 1/4 finals. It's only two more fixtures between now and the final.

Oh and as for 4-3-2-1. What players would you use? I am curious...personally, I think the problem is still if you give Barcelona the ball long enough eventually they will break you down. But anyway. That is well established. Biggrin
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Super Progress on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:15 pm

Jaime wrote:I think we really do need to have the ball a reasonable amount of the time. I don't know, in the 25 or so years that I have been supporting Madrid, if we have ever once had more possession that Barcelona. But 45-55 or 40-60 at least gives us a reasonable break from defending. I always say it but we simply cannot defend for 80 or more minutes. It requires too much energy and when we expend so much energy defending the counter attacks turn into simply hoofing the ball away. And maybe this could be more "effective" if you have Drogba or Manolito but Higuain, Ronaldo, Benzema are not made for that sort of play.

You are right that there is a huge psychological problem. As soon as they scored the first goal I knew they would go on to win. This is really something I blame Jose for. I mean if you look at Capello's team they had such self belief they never believed they were out of any match. They went to the Camp Nou and played that great 3-3 match. And you can say it was different times and different teams and I get that but I don't see that never say die attitude with the current group.

I am not so disappointed about going out of the Copa since we just won it last year as I am for seeing yet another hapless display against Barcelona. I don't buy the argument that it saves our players because we are already to the 1/4 finals. It's only two more fixtures between now and the final.

Oh and as for 4-3-2-1. What players would you use? I am curious...personally, I think the problem is still if you give Barcelona the ball long enough eventually they will break you down. But anyway. That is well established. Biggrin

So far Mourinho hasn't been able to solve the mental problem of the team or at least not enough. The difference between Capello and Mourinho is that Capello was allowed to build a team in his image whereas I don't think Mourinho have necessarily bought Ronaldo/Kaka or played as offensively as he has. That's why I say that Mourinho hasn't really been allowed to convert Real Madrid into a typical Mourinho team like Inter/Chelsea with a big focus on defence first. Also don't forget that Mourinho's team has had some comebacks plus he help break the Cl problem.

Even a defensive team has to be able to keep the ball from time to time just give the players a break as you said. However we don't need to have the ball as much as you want the team to. Chelsea/Inter/Man Utd/Liverpool has shown this over the years. But we need to win the physical and positional battle in midfield and if we only have 3 players in there up against 4-5 we are outnumbered. With regards to what players for a 4-3-2-1 I intentionally decided not to name a line up but I'll give it a go:


---------Casillas---------

Arbeloa---Ramos--Pepe---Marcelo

----Lass----Alonso----Coentrao*

--------Ozil----Benzema------

-----------Ronaldo---------

Ronaldo and Benzema could be changed

The good thing about having Ronaldo on top is that it is much easier to convince offensive players to start pressing if their fallback position is an offensive one. Neither Ronaldo nor Ozil would have to go down the wings and clean up in this formation which they dread. Of course Kaka pre-2008 would have been perfect.

*Should be Sahin if we ever see him
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:36 pm

Not sure that Chelsea, Man U, or Liverpool are really good examples to backup your point.

I still contend that Barcelona's game is built around having the ball. The best way to disrupt that is by keeping the ball yourself. So far the sit back and defend has not produced the results.

I don't really think we have the players for 4-3-2-1 to be honest. Ozil in theory could work in the '2' but of course in practice he is too anonymous. Kaka? No thanks. And I think it would not be getting the best out of Benzema to play him deeper.

I also can't buy your argument that Mourinho has not been given the chance to build his team. Ok maybe Ronaldo would not have been his first choice but he has discarded Kaka easily enough even without selling him. He had free reign this past summer to buy and sell as he wished with no interference from Valdano. And the previous summer, apart from Canales and Pedro Leon who were signed before Mourinho was confirmed, he had a say in all of the transfers (hence we have Ozil and not Silva Grr ). If there was another facking runner that he wanted I don't think Florentino would have denied him. We spent 30m euro on a backup left back ffs per Jose's petition.

I understand there were injuries and suspensions on Wednesday but on the whole Mourinho's excuses are starting to run dry.
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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:45 am



Oooooh! Laughing

Mourinho (to Sergio Ramos): You killed me in the press conference area.

Sergio Ramos: No mister, you only read what the printed in the paper not everything that we said.

Mourinho: Yeah sure you Spanish players that won the World Cup cover up for your buddies in the press...just like the goalkeeper.

Iker Casillas (who was training 30 m away): Mister, here we say things to the face, eh?

Mourinho (to Sergio Ramos): Were were you in the first goal?

Sergio Ramos: Marking Pique.

Mourinho: Well you were supposed to mark Puyol.

Sergio Ramos: They were screening with Pique so we decided to switch markings.

Mourinho: So what, now you want to be the manager?

Sergio Ramos: No but sometimes given the situation you have to change the markings. But seeing as you were never a player you wouldn't know about situations like that....

lol!

stinger

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by stinger on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:04 am

Jaime - thanks for translation. And... lol!

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by MightyBarca on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:05 am

What did mourinho mean when he says ' you killed me in the press area'?

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by worms. on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:23 am

Jaime wrote:

Oooooh! Laughing

Mourinho (to Sergio Ramos): You killed me in the press conference area.

Sergio Ramos: No mister, you only read what the printed in the paper not everything that we said.

Mourinho: Yeah sure you Spanish players that won the World Cup cover up for your buddies in the press...just like the goalkeeper.

Iker Casillas (who was training 30 m away): Mister, here we say things to the face, eh?

Mourinho (to Sergio Ramos): Were were you in the first goal?

Sergio Ramos: Marking Pique.

Mourinho: Well you were supposed to mark Puyol.

Sergio Ramos: They were screening with Pique so we decided to switch markings.

Mourinho: So what, now you want to be the manager?

Sergio Ramos: No but sometimes given the situation you have to change the markings. But seeing as you were never a player you wouldn't know about situations like that....

lol!

lol!
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TITO

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by TITO on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:16 pm

MightyBarca wrote:What did mourinho mean when he says ' you killed me in the press area'?

Probably they were shortly interviewed when the game finished, so he might be thinking about that.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:45 pm

TITO wrote:
MightyBarca wrote:What did mourinho mean when he says ' you killed me in the press area'?

Probably they were shortly interviewed when the game finished, so he might be thinking about that.

I can't remember exactly the words but some of the players including Ramos questioned the tactics/approach for the game.
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fcb

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by fcb on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:24 pm

IIRC it was something like 'we have to adapt to the tactics of the coach...'
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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by TM on Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:28 pm

Casillas to make his 600th appearance for Real Madrid tonight. cheers
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:57 pm

TM wrote:Casillas to make his 600th appearance for Real Madrid tonight. cheers

Funny his first ever appearance was also against Athletic!

Iker Ale

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:58 pm

Just seen this. Sneak peak of our shirts for next year?

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Cristiano on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:21 pm

Més que un club wrote:
Jaime wrote:

Oooooh! Laughing

Mourinho (to Sergio Ramos): You killed me in the press conference area.

Sergio Ramos: No mister, you only read what the printed in the paper not everything that we said.

Mourinho: Yeah sure you Spanish players that won the World Cup cover up for your buddies in the press...just like the goalkeeper.

Iker Casillas (who was training 30 m away): Mister, here we say things to the face, eh?

Mourinho (to Sergio Ramos): Were were you in the first goal?

Sergio Ramos: Marking Pique.

Mourinho: Well you were supposed to mark Puyol.

Sergio Ramos: They were screening with Pique so we decided to switch markings.

Mourinho: So what, now you want to be the manager?

Sergio Ramos: No but sometimes given the situation you have to change the markings. But seeing as you were never a player you wouldn't know about situations like that....

lol!

lol!

lol!

Why is he not asking Pepe about the first ball, where was he?
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Super Progress on Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:54 pm

Jaime wrote:Not sure that Chelsea, Man U, or Liverpool are really good examples to backup your point.

I still contend that Barcelona's game is built around having the ball. The best way to disrupt that is by keeping the ball yourself. So far the sit back and defend has not produced the results.

I don't really think we have the players for 4-3-2-1 to be honest. Ozil in theory could work in the '2' but of course in practice he is too anonymous. Kaka? No thanks. And I think it would not be getting the best out of Benzema to play him deeper.

I also can't buy your argument that Mourinho has not been given the chance to build his team. Ok maybe Ronaldo would not have been his first choice but he has discarded Kaka easily enough even without selling him. He had free reign this past summer to buy and sell as he wished with no interference from Valdano. And the previous summer, apart from Canales and Pedro Leon who were signed before Mourinho was confirmed, he had a say in all of the transfers (hence we have Ozil and not Silva Grr ). If there was another facking runner that he wanted I don't think Florentino would have denied him. We spent 30m euro on a backup left back ffs per Jose's petition.

I understand there were injuries and suspensions on Wednesday but on the whole Mourinho's excuses are starting to run dry.
My point is that you don't really need to have the ball that much but you do need to have some control of the game. And I wouldn't agree that the sit back strategy of sitting back hasn't worked. The trivote has generally produced decent results.

I'm not saying we should start playing a 4-3-2-1 as our standard tactic but simply as a tactic for Barcelona. It is about crowding the midfield. The point is not whether or not we get the best out of Benzema or even Ronaldo. The point is to start controlling the game more. If that means once in a while playing such a tactic that should be a fair compromise on the behalf of the anti-progress crowd.

My point isn't that he hasn't been allowed to get some of the players he wants. My point is that he hasn't been allowed to make this a Inter/Chelsea style team. He has compromised on the style and built the squad accordingly.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Super Progress on Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:01 pm

Jaime wrote:Not sure that Chelsea, Man U, or Liverpool are really good examples to backup your point.

I still contend that Barcelona's game is built around having the ball. The best way to disrupt that is by keeping the ball yourself. So far the sit back and defend has not produced the results.

I don't really think we have the players for 4-3-2-1 to be honest. Ozil in theory could work in the '2' but of course in practice he is too anonymous. Kaka? No thanks. And I think it would not be getting the best out of Benzema to play him deeper.

I also can't buy your argument that Mourinho has not been given the chance to build his team. Ok maybe Ronaldo would not have been his first choice but he has discarded Kaka easily enough even without selling him. He had free reign this past summer to buy and sell as he wished with no interference from Valdano. And the previous summer, apart from Canales and Pedro Leon who were signed before Mourinho was confirmed, he had a say in all of the transfers (hence we have Ozil and not Silva Grr ). If there was another facking runner that he wanted I don't think Florentino would have denied him. We spent 30m euro on a backup left back ffs per Jose's petition.

I understand there were injuries and suspensions on Wednesday but on the whole Mourinho's excuses are starting to run dry.
My point is that you don't really need to have the ball that much but you do need to have some control of the game. And I wouldn't agree that the sit back strategy of sitting back hasn't worked. The trivote has generally produced decent results.

I'm not saying we should start playing a 4-3-2-1 as our standard tactic but simply as a tactic for Barcelona. It is about crowding the midfield. The point is not whether or not we get the best out of Benzema or even Ronaldo. The point is to start controlling the game more. If that means once in a while playing such a tactic that should be a fair compromise on the behalf of the anti-progress crowd.

My point isn't that he hasn't been allowed to get some of the players he wants. My point is that he hasn't been allowed to make this a Inter/Chelsea style team. He has compromised on the style and built the squad accordingly.

But you're correct about the Ozil/Silva transfer which he got massively wrong in retrospect.
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TITO

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by TITO on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:08 pm

Super Progfather wrote:
Jaime wrote:Not sure that Chelsea, Man U, or Liverpool are really good examples to backup your point.

I still contend that Barcelona's game is built around having the ball. The best way to disrupt that is by keeping the ball yourself. So far the sit back and defend has not produced the results.

I don't really think we have the players for 4-3-2-1 to be honest. Ozil in theory could work in the '2' but of course in practice he is too anonymous. Kaka? No thanks. And I think it would not be getting the best out of Benzema to play him deeper.

I also can't buy your argument that Mourinho has not been given the chance to build his team. Ok maybe Ronaldo would not have been his first choice but he has discarded Kaka easily enough even without selling him. He had free reign this past summer to buy and sell as he wished with no interference from Valdano. And the previous summer, apart from Canales and Pedro Leon who were signed before Mourinho was confirmed, he had a say in all of the transfers (hence we have Ozil and not Silva Grr ). If there was another facking runner that he wanted I don't think Florentino would have denied him. We spent 30m euro on a backup left back ffs per Jose's petition.

I understand there were injuries and suspensions on Wednesday but on the whole Mourinho's excuses are starting to run dry.
My point is that you don't really need to have the ball that much but you do need to have some control of the game. And I wouldn't agree that the sit back strategy of sitting back hasn't worked. The trivote has generally produced decent results.

I'm not saying we should start playing a 4-3-2-1 as our standard tactic but simply as a tactic for Barcelona. It is about crowding the midfield. The point is not whether or not we get the best out of Benzema or even Ronaldo. The point is to start controlling the game more. If that means once in a while playing such a tactic that should be a fair compromise on the behalf of the anti-progress crowd.

My point isn't that he hasn't been allowed to get some of the players he wants. My point is that he hasn't been allowed to make this a Inter/Chelsea style team. He has compromised on the style and built the squad accordingly.

But you're correct about the Ozil/Silva transfer which he got massively wrong in retrospect.

I dont know when did you started watching and understanding football, or RM in that matter, but your beloved club never looked or played like Special Five's Inter or Chelsea, and never, never should play like them no matter the opponent.
And that's why you just can't understand it properly, since you are only 20 and don't remember (i assume) almost nothing prior to Galacticos, and this is what it pisses off Jaime and older RM fans, cause they remember how this club used to play football.
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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by fcb on Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:10 pm

How will you 'control' the midfield by just outnumbering the Barça players in that zone, if all your players can do with the ball - once they get it - is lose it again? A park-the-bus tactic like Inter is only achievable in one-off games with a combination of a variety of factors beyond just tactical shape and positioning (and yes, luck and an off-day for Barça are two big parts of it).

Otherwise, by just crowding the midfield with hackers who boot it away and/or try to build low-percentage counter-attacks, you are going to fail more times than succeed, especially against an attack like Barcelona, which has evolved and become more varied than against Inter (speaking of the quality of attack in terms of movement, dynamics, and creativity, don't forget that in that 1-0 Guardiola also played Ibrahimovic - who in an April game is about as useful as Ronaldo at free kicks).

To truly 'control' a zone, you need to have ability both with and without the ball.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:30 pm

Super Progfather wrote:
Jaime wrote:Not sure that Chelsea, Man U, or Liverpool are really good examples to backup your point.

I still contend that Barcelona's game is built around having the ball. The best way to disrupt that is by keeping the ball yourself. So far the sit back and defend has not produced the results.

I don't really think we have the players for 4-3-2-1 to be honest. Ozil in theory could work in the '2' but of course in practice he is too anonymous. Kaka? No thanks. And I think it would not be getting the best out of Benzema to play him deeper.

I also can't buy your argument that Mourinho has not been given the chance to build his team. Ok maybe Ronaldo would not have been his first choice but he has discarded Kaka easily enough even without selling him. He had free reign this past summer to buy and sell as he wished with no interference from Valdano. And the previous summer, apart from Canales and Pedro Leon who were signed before Mourinho was confirmed, he had a say in all of the transfers (hence we have Ozil and not Silva Grr ). If there was another facking runner that he wanted I don't think Florentino would have denied him. We spent 30m euro on a backup left back ffs per Jose's petition.

I understand there were injuries and suspensions on Wednesday but on the whole Mourinho's excuses are starting to run dry.
My point is that you don't really need to have the ball that much but you do need to have some control of the game. And I wouldn't agree that the sit back strategy of sitting back hasn't worked. The trivote has generally produced decent results.

I'm not saying we should start playing a 4-3-2-1 as our standard tactic but simply as a tactic for Barcelona. It is about crowding the midfield. The point is not whether or not we get the best out of Benzema or even Ronaldo. The point is to start controlling the game more. If that means once in a while playing such a tactic that should be a fair compromise on the behalf of the anti-progress crowd.

My point isn't that he hasn't been allowed to get some of the players he wants. My point is that he hasn't been allowed to make this a Inter/Chelsea style team. He has compromised on the style and built the squad accordingly.

But you're correct about the Ozil/Silva transfer which he got massively wrong in retrospect.

I don't agree. Florentino brought Mourinho to overturn Barcelona's hegemony, using whatever means. If that wasn't the case, why bring Mourinho at all? Why give him 100% autonomy over the signings and the team? If Mourinho has not made the team as he wanted then he has not been true to his convictions and does not have the mentality that I imagined he did.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:57 pm

Mou planea dejar el Madrid en junio, según Punto Pelota

Mourinho se ha hartado. Según aseguró Siro López anoche en 'Punto Pelota', el entrenador madridista ha cambiado radicalmente en las últimas fechas y tendría "decidido abandonar el Real Madrid el próximo 30 de junio".

Siro recibió una llamada en pleno programa en la que se le comunicaba que Mourinho se ha cansado de la oposición de la prensa, que según él es casi total. Las filtraciones que supuestamente han salido del vestuario merengue habrían sido la gota que colmó el vaso, por lo que ya tendría la decisión tomada, siempre según Siro López, que habría recibido una llamada del entorno del portugués.

Ya en enero del año pasado se planteó una situación similar. En plena guerra con Jorge Valdano, entonces director general del Real Madrid, Mourinho hizo correr la idea de que dejaría el club en junio de 2011. El portugués consideraba que no tenía el respaldo de la entidad, que el club no tenía una estructura adecuada y que no todos remaban en la misma dirección.

Al parecer, Mourinho estaba disgustado porque el club no accedía a su petición de fichar un delantero en el mercado de invierno. Le molestó especialmente la respuesta de Valdano tras el empate ante el Almería. "Hoy teníamos un 9 en el banquillo", refiriéndose a Benzema. Finalmente, en aquel mercado de invierno llegó al Madrid el atacante togolés Adebayor, cedido por el Manchester City.



http://www.as.com/futbol/articulo/mou-planea-dejar-madrid-junio/20120123dasdasftb_7/Tes

bounce
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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by TheCrazy58 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:04 pm

Sid Lowe's take on civil war at Madrid

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jan/23/mourinho-real-madrid-sid-lowe

So how is the dressing room divided - Portugese (led by Ronaldo) v Spaniards?.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:05 pm

Well if you believe Casillas the spanish and portuguese get on just fine. I mean it is no secret that there are and groups in the changing room. Portuguese + Brasilians and Spanish + Argies. Nobody cares about the turks and germans. Wink

Anyhow, imo it is all rooted in the ability to beat Barcelona. If we were winning I don't think it would be so much of a big deal even though there will always be (and always have been) groups within the team. But the increasing frustration with being constantly pwned by you know who and the increasing tension people are bound to point fingers. And when the finger pointing starts, everyone ends up taking sides.

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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Super Progress on Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:11 am

Jaime wrote:Well if you believe Casillas the spanish and portuguese get on just fine. I mean it is no secret that there are and groups in the changing room. Portuguese + Brasilians and Spanish + Argies. Nobody cares about the turks and germans. Wink

Anyhow, imo it is all rooted in the ability to beat Barcelona. If we were winning I don't think it would be so much of a big deal even though there will always be (and always have been) groups within the team. But the increasing frustration with being constantly pwned by you know who and the increasing tension people are bound to point fingers. And when the finger pointing starts, everyone ends up taking sides.

Yeah it's funny how sportsjournalist almost take the view that any sort of grouping is sign of something unnatural when it in fact it is a natural outcome of different people coming together in any setting whether that be a school class or at work. Especially in a football team where players are brought to from all over the world of course you will see groupings and hardly unusual that they are divided by ethnic/cultural lines. Not to mention that internal tensions will always be there as well. It is question of the tensions boiling over which tends to happen in crisis times. While it might be strange to talk about crisis when we are on course to win the league with a good gap the problem of Barcelona beating the team is obviously hanging over the team.

Did anybody else find it amusing that Ronaldo was trying to work his ass off yesterday. Biggrin
If he starts bringing this for other big games then fair enough but otherwise I couldn't care less and I don't know what is on to because if he continues to be lazy when it counts nobody cares if he "ran himself into the ground" against Bilbao.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:27 am

Super Progfather wrote:
Did anybody else find it amusing that Ronaldo was trying to work his ass off yesterday. Biggrin
If he starts bringing this for other big games then fair enough but otherwise I couldn't care less and I don't know what is on to because if he continues to be lazy when it counts nobody cares if he "ran himself into the ground" against Bilbao.

I know you didn't see the first leg against Barcelona but he gave the same effort then too. He was running around and throwing himself into tackles chasing after the ball, the whole works! He even played the whole match with his collar down! Biggrin
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Jaime on Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:32 am



Ok so what does everyone think? Will Pepe be in the XI?
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Isco Benny

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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:11 am

Madristas,

what's all this about? Rumours over here about Real Madrid are there is an ever increasing rift between Portuegeezers (led by Ronaldo on the pitch and Mourinho off it) and the Spaniards:



God that man is a prick.

And dating all the way back too:



Forget about giving Ozil shit, this is the man who deserves the ire. What sort of player doesn't celebrate a team mates penalty because they wanted to take it, in a continual selfish search for his own individual statistics. Rolling Eyes

Pepe, Ronaldo, Mourinho: a great Spanish club is having it's great reputation degraded by arrogant self indulgent Portuguese IMO Ale


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Re: Real Madrid C.F. 2011/12

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