Iniesta is better than Zidane

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:23 pm

Fade out wrote:
Last edited by Messiah on Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:07 pm; edited 2 times in total

I'll let you edit it 200 times & it'd still be a mess of a post.

YEAH YEA WHATEVER, better a mess than total shit
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TITO

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by TITO on Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:13 pm

It's a pure blasphemy mentioning Zizou and Vieira as a pair that hold that France team.
If anything, Vieira was not in 98 team and he was nowhere near the starting line-up in the 2000 team.
Deschamp was doing all the work in that midfield and Zizou benefited from it, and later it was Makalele.
I'm still claiming that Zizou is better than Iniesta, and i liked it more as complete player, regardless that he was shining only for moments and not for entire season, but to say that Zizou is miles ahead of Iniesta is stupidity.
In the end, actually you can't even compare them. Two different players.
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Fade out on Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:34 pm

My last post on the matter.

Makelele/Deschamps have never controlled the midfield in ways Vieira did, for France. Their roles were different & understandably conservative. I'm referring to the two midfielders who held the thrust of our attack when we had our good set of results from 96-06. Actually before Vieira, it's even more impressive that Zidane carried the team. Henry, 'Perez' (I'm assuming it's Pires that Messr. Messiah meant), Youri had their contributions, but they never controlled the game in ways Zidane & Vieira did.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:45 pm

on a somewhat different note, just so happens that a rebroadcast of some by gone classico is playing at the moment and it just goes to show what i have been saying about the great but not so great man, i swear to you i didn't know he was on the pitch until a minute ago, and the game is 25 minutes old, but that little fucker makalele is pure class and the man is quite skillful too
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by TITO on Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:55 pm

Deschamp did, you should watch some of the games from that time, and Makelele too.
Don't forget, that Zizou played in extremely talented and skillful teams at his time (RM, Juve and France), and they were ruling the continent then.
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Fade out on Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:58 pm

If Opta were in existence at that time, 'deschamps to Zizou' number of passes would make for a better viewing. Enough said.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:03 pm

TITO wrote:Deschamp did, you should watch some of the games from that time, and Makelele too.
Don't forget, that Zizou played in extremely talented and skillful teams at his time (RM, Juve and France), and they were ruling the continent then.

no he didn't he played for shit teams and is the single reason that won all they did, he is the maradona of his generation.
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Fade out on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:07 pm

No one is saying that. But it is true that he's one of the very few who could control the game in that French side. We're still finding ways to replace him & have utterly struggled since.

We have a more talented Deschamps-type in M'Vila today. But a lot of French supporters would give their nutsack for Zidane to be back.
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by TITO on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:17 pm

Then it all comes out that he was above anyone else from that generation but you cannot single him out as a main reason for their success. He was just piece of the puzzle but with more talent and skill than the others.
Like you cannot do it with Messi today.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:24 pm

TITO wrote:Then it all comes out that he was above anyone else from that generation but you cannot single him out as a main reason for their success. He was just piece of the puzzle but with more talent and skill than the others.
Like you cannot do it with Messi today.

thank you at least someone his reasonable

of course france is struggling, we are talking about all time great, by critism of the man is not that he isn't one of the best to ever put on a peer of boots, its the deification of him that just grinds my gears, like he is the maradona of his generation(though even he had am excellent team around him for napoli and argentina as well, but thats for another day).

Its like how spain were struggling to control teams before iniesta and xavi though they played the same kind of Tiki taka football they do now, but these two players are not run of the mill players, and when they are gone spain will struggle to replace them as well.

Note i never said iniesta is as good are better, but he is good enough for the debate to be had.

PS he was only the best player at madrid for one season tops, figo,raul and ronaldo were at better than him, in different seasons, he was always among the best do, and could still provide though moments time mystic is built on until the very end
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Cristiano on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:13 pm

Messiah wrote:1) i have been saying he is the closet thing to zidane playing today for years
2) he is more consistent than zidane over the course of a season he like xavi is a 7/8 most games and a 9/10 in the others
3) how dear they say he doesn't perform in the big games, what other horse shit.
4) Zidane is the single most overrated players in the history of football IMO, still top 25-20, but not top 5-10 like some people would have you believe, he career is built on a very absolutely amazing moments, but has i said over the course of a season the likes of xavi and iniesta kicks is ass, but they also perform on the big stage as well.
the deification of zidane is truly embarrassing.

did he have more skill than iniesta? no. both men have absurd skills and grace in moving across the pitch.

was he more consistent than iniesta? NO. zidane was as capricious as footballer's come.

has he had more marquee moments than iniesta? yes, one. the CL final goal. iniesta's won a world cup final (in a much much MUCH more clutch scenario than zidane) but has yet to get that CL final goal. although his goal at the bridge was majestic and, again, much more clutch than zizou's final goal.

the argument for zidane isn't based on anything except a sort of accepted dogma that he is one of the greatest ever and surely no one can come close to him. which, sorry, is horseshit. zidane wasn't even the greatest player of his generation (that'd be fat ronaldo).

xavi a different type of player, but he is obviously superior, but I'd put zizou and then iniesta but he will be remember the better player if he continues to play like this

Ps how underrated is seedorf

Just because YOU only remember Zidane for the so called special moments does not mean he didnt perfom over a season thats utter rubbish. You obviously watch and spunk over every single game Iniesta plays, fair enough but dont come out with bullshit.
People have short memories, we are seeing Iniesta week in week out so his perfomances are obviously fresh in the minds but dont sit there and tell us Zidane never perfomed in the small games. Years from now noone will remember Iniesta perfomances against Polzen it will be the game against Chelsea, the classico, finals etc that will be talked about constantly then some other twat like you will say oh he never perfomed in the less important games or throughout the season.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:06 pm

Cristiano wrote:
Messiah wrote:1) i have been saying he is the closet thing to zidane playing today for years
2) he is more consistent than zidane over the course of a season he like xavi is a 7/8 most games and a 9/10 in the others
3) how dear they say he doesn't perform in the big games, what other horse shit.
4) Zidane is the single most overrated players in the history of football IMO, still top 25-20, but not top 5-10 like some people would have you believe, he career is built on a very absolutely amazing moments, but has i said over the course of a season the likes of xavi and iniesta kicks is ass, but they also perform on the big stage as well.
the deification of zidane is truly embarrassing.

did he have more skill than iniesta? no. both men have absurd skills and grace in moving across the pitch.

was he more consistent than iniesta? NO. zidane was as capricious as footballer's come.

has he had more marquee moments than iniesta? yes, one. the CL final goal. iniesta's won a world cup final (in a much much MUCH more clutch scenario than zidane) but has yet to get that CL final goal. although his goal at the bridge was majestic and, again, much more clutch than zizou's final goal.

the argument for zidane isn't based on anything except a sort of accepted dogma that he is one of the greatest ever and surely no one can come close to him. which, sorry, is horseshit. zidane wasn't even the greatest player of his generation (that'd be fat ronaldo).

xavi a different type of player, but he is obviously superior, but I'd put zizou and then iniesta but he will be remember the better player if he continues to play like this

Ps how underrated is seedorf

Just because YOU only remember Zidane for the so called special moments does not mean he didnt perfom over a season thats utter rubbish. You obviously watch and spunk over every single game Iniesta plays, fair enough but dont come out with bullshit.
People have short memories, we are seeing Iniesta week in week out so his perfomances are obviously fresh in the minds but dont sit there and tell us Zidane never perfomed in the small games. Years from now noone will remember Iniesta perfomances against Polzen it will be the game against Chelsea, the classico, finals etc that will be talked about constantly then some other twat like you will say oh he never perfomed in the less important games or throughout the season.

I'm done with this, but i remember most of zidane performances perfectly, and i am sure the man didn't perform on a game to game basis has good as iniesta or xavi or messi or ronaldo the dick and the fat one before the injuries. he was a man for when the lights was flashing, note on a game to game basis doesn't mean he was shit thought a season.

Ps if i can't remember neither can you, so we are just left with the moments and just for this debate iniesta has just has much as him.


Last edited by Messiah on Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Super Progress on Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:07 am

Remember also that Zidane performed in Spain when it was the hardest league in the world and before for Juventus when that was the hardest league in the world. The Spanish league has been painfully weak in the last couple of years.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:28 am

Super Stalin wrote:Remember also that Zidane performed in Spain when it was the hardest league in the world and before for Juventus when that was the hardest league in the world. The Spanish league has been painfully weak in the last couple of years.

yea that much is true la liga was boss back then, but real and barca are stronger now than they were then, its the first time in a long time that these two teams are at the top of their powers at the same time, so though it is weaker i will grandly admit, the team that win's the league is much stronger than the team that won it back then.


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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:35 am

plus he still only ever won the league once with real so he really didn't perform to the level on would expect from of the the 5-10 best players ever, especially given his supporting cast.
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Fade out on Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:04 am

Cristiano wrote:Just because YOU only remember Zidane for the so called special moments does not mean he didnt perfom over a season thats utter rubbish.

Ale
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Cristiano on Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:12 am

Valdes is better than Schmeichel and Buffon is next at this rate.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:43 pm

Nah thats too easy, Oleguer>>Nesta is next.

I don't know how people that are so smart are getting a weekly consistency confused with over the course of a season consistency, but let me break it down for you.

Villa was good over the course of last season, but he didn't have shit on lets say eto'o when it rates to a in day consistency, week in week out eto'o was better than him.

iniesta is playing at a world class damn near every single game he plays, i can't count the number of game that i saw zidane play, where he didn't score,didn't assist,didn't help his team control the attacking 3rd of the field, he wasn't having a shit game, just an average one, iniesta and xavi ever since their peak and even rarely before that, damn near never has an average game, has when they don't score or assist then are helping the team to control the game, hence they are more consistently good that the great man, talk all you want that cannot be denied.

but in truth iniesta and zidane play different positions, zidane should be compared to a kaka(no real comparison to be had their), and when players like zidane or kaka don't have an impact on the attacking 3rd. the team is basically playing with 10 men, yes thats right i said it, he was never capable of doing the CM thing anywhere close to iniesta's level, not to mention xavi, just has how they aren't anywhere close to doing the number 10 pole to his level. but has i said they are somewhat different players, with iniesta being the closest to him.

he was just better in the attacking 3rd that's it, he isn't even a man for the big games more than inietsa, he was just better in the attacking 3rd and people remember the moments its all about perception the human brain is a wonderfully stupid thing at times,which is why we all get fooled by magic tricks.

But Substantially over the course of a season, he was no better than iniesta and if he was it wasn't by much.

so to conclude to have a good season(villa), doesn't mean you were good week in week out(Eto'o) for inter last season to make it clear

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:55 pm

its worth noting that no one can yet give a substantial reason has to way zidane is so much better than iniesta, has their usual default argument he was better for the big game, doesn't hold up against iniesta, so its just the dogma that they are left with, he is much better because because because, well he was just better because.
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:35 pm

I will perhaps wade into this debate later, but anyone who watched Zidane at Juventus (like me) cannot possibly say his acclaim is premised on sporadically spectacular moments. Sorry, that's just not true, and Juve and Serie A fans would surely concur.

I have, however, thought that Zidane was a BIT overrated on the international stage--that is, pre-2006 at least. I n WC1998, he didn't even play that much and scored past a bewildered Brazil side in the Final. And in Euro2000, he was almost completely nullified in the Final, and it was Totti who eclipsed him. I think Zidane's signal achievement internationally is how he took a doddering and tired French side to a Final in 2006, only of course to piss all over his work in it.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:43 pm

why do people over exaggerate everything did i say he lived on sporadic moments, No, he was good through the season, but he was not as good as iniesta when it comes to a game to game type consistency and i also saw him at juve.

Juve zidane more magical than real Zidane, but still only 3 league titles playing for two of the best teams in their respective periods in a way goes to the point.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:53 pm

over a say 38 game say iniesta will give u a more consistent performance game to game that zidane thats what am saying, not that zidane is shit over the course of the 38 games
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:05 pm

Messiah wrote:why do people over exaggerate everything did i say he lived on sporadic moments, No, he was good through the season, but he was not as good as iniesta when it comes to a game to game type consistency and i also saw him at juve.

Juve zidane more magical than real Zidane, but still only 3 league titles playing for two of the best teams in their respective periods in a way goes to the point.

To be fair to you, i remember a quote by Moggi after he sold Zidane to Real which was something like "he is more beautiful to watch than he is effective". An exaggeration, but there is some truth to that.

I think the title only tells you so much and is a bit of a flawed way to judge Zidane or any player). I mean you like Ronaldo and rate him highly (and rightly so), but how many titles did he win with Barca, Inter, Real and Milan? i think it was just 1.

Zidane may have only won 2 title at Juve, but as far as i remember, his only below par season was 98/99. In 99/00 and 00/01, Juve were up there fighting for the title and lost out by 1 point on both occasions, so you can hardly put the blame on Zidane for that. I can't comment on him at La Liga so much - i didn't watch him game in, game out.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:16 pm

yeah its an exaggeration yes, but their is a element of truth to it, i honestly can't believe people who claim to have watch him week in week out, would say he perform to a certain level most games, he had a pretty pass in most games, but in others he was just...

yeah the league title thing is a bit flawed, which is way i said in away.
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Fade out on Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:53 pm

But thing is little rat you didn't even watch Zidane play week-in week-out yourself. And you're quite clearly talking out of your arse.

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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:40 am

Fade out wrote:But thing is little rat you didn't even watch Zidane play week-in week-out yourself. And you're quite clearly talking out of your arse.

Blah Blah Blah, can't come with a single thing to say to disprove anything that i have said, blah blah blah, that all i am here
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Jaime on Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:18 am

I would go back and put together a cumulative match rating for Zidane based on AS/Marca player ratings but even if it came back favourable for Zidane Messiah would no doubt say that "stats" don't tell you anything.


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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:07 am

Anti-Progress wrote:I would go back and put together a cumulative match rating for Zidane based on AS/Marca player ratings but even if it came back favourable for Zidane Messiah would no doubt say that "stats" don't tell you anything.


No As/marca stats don't tell you anything
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Jaime on Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:17 am

Messiah wrote:
Anti-Progress wrote:I would go back and put together a cumulative match rating for Zidane based on AS/Marca player ratings but even if it came back favourable for Zidane Messiah would no doubt say that "stats" don't tell you anything.


No As/marca stats don't tell you anything

Laughing
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Re: Iniesta is better than Zidane

Post by Fade out on Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:31 am

Messiah wrote:
Fade out wrote:But thing is little rat you didn't even watch Zidane play week-in week-out yourself. And you're quite clearly talking out of your arse.

Blah Blah Blah, can't come with a single thing to say to disprove anything that i have said, blah blah blah, that all i am here

And what did you prove exactly? Laughing

How about you prove your half-arse assumption that Zidane wasn't consistently good through out the season. Enough of your pathetic 'from whatever I have seen' BS.

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