Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

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Isco Benny

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:31 pm

We'll just have to disagree about Merte. For the record, I've always thought you Germans overrated him when you've had better defenders at your disposal (in a similar sense I expect that many of you have not understood why - some - Englanders rate Terry so highly). And h'actually, I don't see anything he's achieved in his career to be so grand as to deflect some criticism for the fact that I've seen oil tankers turn quicker, and that his distribution is scattergun at best.

Your point about Badstuber sounds sensible though. If he improves his defensive capabilities then he will be a top class proposition. Tchusss Ale
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Fade out

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Fade out on Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:45 pm

His distribution is safe and simple, not scattergun. But I agree he is slow, but he's definitely positionally good. And a very clever player. Players with more pace & nimbleness than him commit more mistakes (like Lahm).

On Metzelder - even few Real fans I know rate him. Don't know where they got that from. He had never impressed me for the time he played for us (even that handful of games is overrated as we conceded sloppy goals) or for Germany. As Allez says, Mertesacker has been the best German defender of past 5-6 years. He shits all over English defenders in that time.
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:38 pm

unbelievable good football from germany

2:0

kroos, khedira, müller, özil and klose = world class performance

our style is brilliant, first we keep the ball, control the game, and then we attack like a blitz when there is the space, i love it

kroos is again xavitesque, his long range and short passing is a stunner

müller is unbelievable, everything he made was brilliant

klose one assist and one goal

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Fade out

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Fade out on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:01 pm

Hey, they're playing their B team. If you don't smash 'em (As I told Otto) with your A team, then Low should be sacked. Laughing
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Isco Benny

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:05 pm

Fade out: Yeah, mertesacker really shit on multi PL winner, CL winner, WC quarter finalist Rio Ferdinand didn't he Rolling Eyes

Are Germany dominating Holland? Has Otto began his backtrack ?
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:21 pm

its an utter humiliation

of course they miss vanpersie, robben and vandervaart, but the rest is there


we miss lahm and schweini, van bommel looks pretty past it
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:55 pm

one big plus for germany, we`ve got a better bench

with robben, vanpersie, both world class, they could make a difference, but that wouldn`t change our midfield domination in the centre of the park

but it was just a friendly, no reason to write them off, will be a different game in the tournament


Last edited by Kroos on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Isco Benny

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:56 pm

What's score now?
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:00 pm

3:0

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Isco Benny

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:13 pm

That'll sting the Dutch.

Germany got to be favourites with the Spanish. Who incidentally are losing 2-0 to Costa Rica. Refuse to read too much into these friendlies though. So many clubs putting pressure on players to rest or not get injured at this time of year
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:39 pm

I can't rate Germany for that result; Holland gifted them the game by starting albino
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Kimbo

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kimbo on Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:51 pm

They should've played Krul.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:16 pm

The exorcism of Hamburg has been done...

Yes, it was just a friendly, and yes, Holland were missing a number of important players, but so did we. We missed our captain and our most important player. And it wasn't just the clear result, but the way those goals were scored. Simply sublime football, increasing the pace "blitz" like, as Kroos put it, after keeping possession patiently, scoring great goals with a few direct ball contacts. That is exactly what Löw intended to do when he tried to evolve our game after the WC. We are more patient without giving up our strength on the break, we are way more variable and less predictable, and we defend better as a team.

This was the first real test of the new 4-1-4-1 system, and it worked brilliantly, even against a team so strong on the counter like the Dutch, who pressed very early. It arguably was Khedira's best match in a Germany shirt so far, he had a monster of a game on the DM position, truly remarkable. Müller, Özil and Klose ran rings around the Dutch defence, they were awesome. Kroos' distribution in the absence of Schweinsteiger was impressive. Aogo had a solid game as Lahm's replacement, but didn't do much offensively. That's why Podolski was ineffective to a certain degree, however Poldi was not exactly trying to do anything about it to improve things. Another disappointing match by him against a stronger opponent. Mertesacker still doesn't convince me fully, however some of his passes tonight were remarkably courageous and precise, almost Badstuber like. Boateng was excellent as RB, especially defensively.

For around 20 minutes, we finally had a GÖZILLER midfield on the pitch. Why oh why doesn't Löw try that more often? The potential is limitless, especially with the likes of Schweinsteiger and Kroos behind them and Klose up front. It's almost impossible to imagine that such a midfield would lose possession easily, against anyone. And those crazy short passing moves through tight defences would be happening more often.

We have a better bench than Holland and a more balanced team. However, despite the clear result tonight, I still count them as one of the favourites next year. They'll be there, they'll be tough to be beat. At least Fey needs a humble pie or two now, and being close to the Dutch border now will be far from annoying...

P.S.: Let me add that the criticism after the Ukraine match was retarded. When should Löw do experiments like that (three at the back, 3-5-2 system) then? During the tournament? I thought that it was a pretty interesting test, a game both Löw and the team learned a lot from, probably more than they learned tonight even.
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Hlebagone

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Hlebagone on Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:30 pm

Do you actually think you'll use this 4-1-4-1 formation now during Euro 2012, or will you just stick with the tired and tested 4-2-3-1?
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:35 pm

I believe that the 4-1-4-1 is our "standard" system now, but wet definitely haven't given up the 4-2-3-1 or other systems even. Löw repeatedly said that he intends to train a number of systems to be flexible next summer, to have tactical variability which he (FINALLY) believes to be important (I agree).
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Xavier on Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:38 am

KLOSE, what a legend... cheers

don't care how well Gomez does for Bayern, he simply CANNOT replace old Miro!
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:06 am

Yesterday didn't tell us too much about Holland, or even anything at all as the naysayer(s) will point out (I've just noticed van Marwijk said the same: "Das Spiel sagt wenig über uns aus, aber viel über die Stärke der deutschen Mannschaft."): when it comes down to it Spananien and Käse will be as big a threat as ever in the KOs. But it does tell us a lot about Deutschland: not only that the way we have gone since 2004 is the (only) right way, but it is the way to beat the best teams and can, and should, be the way to win the title too.

GÖTZILLER, oh-oh, GÖTZILLER, oh-oh-oh-oh...

Miroslav Klose Blush (COMPLETELY agree Xavier, as the last two games have shown again)
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:20 am

This may sound crazy, but Klose seems to have actually improved at the age of 33. The move to Lazio has done him good, so did the increased competition by Mario Gomez who has been on fire this season. I agree that with Klose playing, we're more fluid and less predictable, especially against the strongest teams. If he can keep up this level, and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't (bar an injury that hopefully won't happen), he'll be my first choice next year, too. It's just great to know that we have such an excellent alternative sitting on the bench just in case. I expect Gomez to have a monster season.

Yesterday was the biggest loss in 15 years for the Dutch, the biggest win of Germany vs. the Dutch in over 50 years and the first win since 1996.
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:11 am

blutgraetsche wrote:This may sound crazy, but Klose seems to have actually improved at the age of 33.

It is astonishing, isn't it.

From hype like this... (comment on the Grauniad site)

Absolutely phenomenal performance. At times, the speed of the interplay between their forwards seemed impossible. The third goal was particularly spectacular.

And the sight of them bringing Götze on from the bench at 2-0 after 65 minutes? That's called strength in depth

They've got Spain's measure now. And everyone else's too. Easy money to be made here. They must be the most nailed-on certs to win an international football tournament in decades.

And in typically German fashion, Miroslav Klose (age 104) has managed to completely reinvent himself following a transfer to Lazio that many people (myself included) considered desperate, and career ending.....young or old, you cannot stop this team.



to the sobriety of this...

Doch der Bundestrainer wäre nicht der Bundestrainer, hätte er nicht auch warnende Worte parat. Es war die Jahreszeit, die ihm Sorgen bereitete: der Winter. Die deutsche Elf scheint zum Ende eines sehr erfolgreichen Qualifikationsjahres an ihrem vorläufigen, spielerischen Zenit angekommen zu sein. Beim Test gegen Ex-Weltmeister Brasilien war ihr bereits eine Halbzeit auf extrem hohem Niveau gelungen. In Hamburg glückte dies über 90 Minuten.

Löws Sorge ist klar: Die EM in Polen und der Ukraine findet jedoch erst in sieben Monaten statt. Schafft es seine Elf, die fulminante Frühform bis zum Sommer zu konservieren? Wird dies die schwierigste Aufgabe für das kommende halbe Jahr? Die Zahl der Testspiele vor Turnierbeginn ist begrenzt, einzig die Partie im Februar gegen Frankreich dürfte eine echte Probe werden. Die Spieler müssen sich in den Klubs beweisen, Löw muss die Spannung hochhalten - ohne in den kommenden Monaten wirklich einen Anlass dafür zu haben.


... somehow maintaining this level of form is the concern. Even the friendly against France is three and a half months away...
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Isco Benny

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:27 am

blutgraetsche wrote:This may sound crazy, but Klose seems to have actually improved at the age of 33. The move to Lazio has done him good, so did the increased competition by Mario Gomez who has been on fire this season. I agree that with Klose playing, we're more fluid and less predictable, especially against the strongest teams. If he can keep up this level, and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't (bar an injury that hopefully won't happen), he'll be my first choice next year, too. It's just great to know that we have such an excellent alternative sitting on the bench just in case. I expect Gomez to have a monster season.

Yesterday was the biggest loss in 15 years for the Dutch, the biggest win of Germany vs. the Dutch in over 50 years and the first win since 1996.

It's not crazy. Without wishing to reverting the conversation to goings on in ze island, it's not unusual to see players clearly becoming more "intelligent" in how they play in their old age, especially when their career gets a sudden lift playing in a new environment. Yes, I am of course thinking of my own current man crush, Mr Scottie Parker, who at 31 looks like a World Class holding DM that England have been missing for many years and who has clearly improved with age as his intelligence of what to do in his position has grown.

Another more pertinent comparison with Klose - who has impressed me with his club form (his international form has never been really up for debate) for Lazio - would be Teddy Sheringham. Klose is a lot pacier than Sheringham ever was, but Klose's game is positional and playing a simpler game than many of his peers. Very Sheringham-like, who in his 30's and a move to Man United scored in a CL final and although was never as successful for England as Klose has been for Germany, was like a vintage wine that matured with age.

In short, fair play Miroslav - representin' all over 30's everywhere (cheers)) and proof it's not all about ze jungen Ale
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:29 am

I'm actually less concerned by that, because we haven't peaked yet. There is still the final defensive formation to be found, we could still close the gaps in midfield better, still be more clinical etc. etc. And most importantly, as Kroos (the player, not the poster...) put it after the match, "this year was important, but next year is going to be even more important" - the players themselves are fully aware that they haven't won anything yet. And winning is everything that counts now, it's all about winning titles now, the hunger is clearly there.

Let us also not forget that Bayern, who provide the lion's share of this team, have a realistic chance to win the CL in their own stadium this season, and I expect them to go far in the competition at least. That alone should keep the tension high. And Bayern going far in the CL also means that their competition in the BL, e.g. Dortmund, have a better chance to catch up and hence have something to play for until the end of the season. And then there is Real Madrid or even Lazio who are doing really well, a lot of it thanks to Klose who is having a great season.

I expect the increased competition for the starting spots / squad to keep the players on their toes alone. Everyone wants to play for this team, everyone wants to be part of the Euro 2012 squad.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:55 am

Noah und der Bale wrote:
In short, fair play Miroslav - representin' all over 30's everywhere (cheers)) and proof it's not all about ze jungen Ale

It is indeed. He gives thirty somethings like me hope and destroys all the excuses I had. Must do better. I'll start with some cardio right now... Smile
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:17 pm

The goals:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB56f-3Z244


That third goal... Blush
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:38 pm

Youth teams update:

U21: Cyprus - Germany 0-3 (euro qualification)

http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500014&tx_dfbnews_pi1[showUid]=30073&tx_dfbnews_pi4[cat]=61

Seven matches, seven wins.


U20: Poland - Germany 1-0 (friendly)

http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500014&tx_dfbnews_pi1[showUid]=29894&tx_dfbnews_pi4[cat]=66

First loss for the U20 after five matches.


U19: Germany - Egypt 3-0 (friendly)

http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500014&tx_dfbnews_pi1[showUid]=30011&tx_dfbnews_pi4[cat]=68

Hrubesch's team still unbeaten.


U18: Germany - Belgium 1-0 (friendly)

http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500014&tx_dfbnews_pi1[showUid]=29954&tx_dfbnews_pi4[cat]=155

Second match, second win under Ziege (first match was won vs. Italy)


U17: Azerbaijan - Germany 0-4 (friendly)

http://www.dfb.de/index.php?id=500014&tx_dfbnews_pi1[showUid]=30063&tx_dfbnews_pi4[cat]=223

Nine matches, nine wins.
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fcb

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by fcb on Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:36 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:The goals:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB56f-3Z244


That third goal... Blush

I didn't find it that impressive compared to the 1st one...a couple of extra passes make the goal look better than it was, but mostly it was facilitated by terrible defending by the LB and the left-sided CB. But Germany's overall combination play was pretty good, as we know already.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:43 pm

All goals were truly good, including the first and second one, for different reasons, but the way Müller manages to pass with such accuracy to Özil in the Dutch box (!) while being under pressure, who then does a short passing move with Klose, cutting through the Dutch defence like Gouda, and all this happening in the tightest of spaces, was simply amazing. That would have been a great goal even against a minnow, but it's the Netherlands we're talking about here. Holland missed a number of attackers, but their defence and (central) midfield was more or less first choice.

Brian2468

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Brian2468 on Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:49 pm

Deadly one touch football completely destroyed the Dutchies back lines. Good video.
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Fade out

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Fade out on Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:51 pm

Impressive goal in deed Ale
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:00 pm

The 2nd was the best for me... the other two were aided by some horrific defending.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:07 pm

I agree that the Dutch defence didn't look too sharp on the third, but how to defend such a one-touch move like the first goal properly? The defence hardly had any time to react. The attacking team always has the advantage if there is great understanding between the players, allowing them direct passing in a very short time. All moves that lead to goals took like 2 seconds to finish. Defenders will rarely look good in such situations, it's the nature of the game.

If anything, I'd rather blame the Dutch midfield that simply didn't stand a chance yesterday and couldn't provide enough cover for the back four. The strong (often brutal) showing by Van Bommel and De Jong at the WC last year covered a lot of cracks at the back, as I repeatedly said. A team with pace and creativity up front will expose those weaknesses of the Dutch. Fey wouldn't have it though.

Wonder how otto will spin this one.

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