Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

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Fade out

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Fade out on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:10 pm

It's a joke Van Bommel is still allowed to play at this level..
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:14 pm

A bigger joke is how he always manages to get away with nasty fouls. A pat on the back here, a friendly smile there, and it's as if the referee and even the players he fouled have forgotten what happened. Simply amazing.

Hey Fade out, I may go to the France friendly in Bremen next February. Looking forward to it for sure. France are a bit under the radar, but I expect them to be strong next summer. France and Italy are the teams to watch out for this time, dangerously under the radar because of the recent past, yet enough quality to beat even the strongest teams.
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Fade out

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Fade out on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:40 pm

Agreed. We could still surprise the strongest teams. But I haven't been impressed by our recent displays vs USA & Belgium. I could understand the patchy display vs USA with debutants needing some time to bed in. But the Belgium game saw us hit a wall (of CBs that they have in back-4, quite literally). And Lloris had to save us couple of times.

But we have competition all over the pitch.

GK: Lloris, Mandanda, Carrasso.

LB: Abidal, Mathieu, Evra
CB: Rami, Kaboul, Mexes, Sakho, Koscielny, Abidal
RB: Sagna, Reveillere, Debuchy

DM/Box-to-box: M'Vila, A.Diarra
playmaking (deep lying if need be): Cabaye, Martin
AM: Nasri, Ribery, Menez, Valbeuna

And I haven't even considered Diaby (has talent but is a crock), Ben Arfa (If not for that thug De Jong, he'd be a contender), Gourcuff (Signs of a strong comeback but hasn't done it for any teams consistently, apart from half a season for Bordeaux), Malouda , Matuidi.

ST: Remy, Benzema, Gamiero, Gomis, Hoarau, Cisse, Giroud.

Bolded players should all start IMO.

Maybe Blanc would do a Low:

-----Lloris
Sagna-Rami-Abidal
--M'Vila-Cabaye
Nasri-Martin-Ribery
--Remy--Benzema

Though it seems nice on paper, the formation is something of a mess in practical terms.



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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:13 pm

Definitely going to that Bremen friendly too, may have to smuggle up to three Frenchies in too.

I think the problem with the current French team is that they have too many c**ts – selfish, unpleasant, non-collegiate characters who can harm the team on and off the field (Evra, Nasri, Ribéry, L. Diarra...), talent surely isn't an issue. Presumably why Martin was such a hit...
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Fade out

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Fade out on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:17 pm

Different types of c**ts though.

Blanc would have none of it. He's been a commanding figure. Don't think that could be an excuse. I think there's a renewed team spirit in the team.
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Puro

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Puro on Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:13 pm

Wow! Germany looked really good against the parasitic Dutchies, didn't they! The game was over once Germany got the first goal. It really was.

The Germans will be looking forward to dethrone Spain next year, they always look forward to playing Spain, and yet it seems they almost always lose to them. Germany lose to Spain, Bayern get destroyed by Barça, Leverkusen "look" forward to having one up against Valencia, and yet Los Che utterly destroy them. The mind boggles, getting your ass kicked often and yet the Germans feel "confident" about facing the Spanish. scratch

Khedira looked good in that 4-1-4-1 didn't he! <Ale>
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Calidad

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Calidad on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:07 pm

Kroos is really starting to look the the sort of player that many thought he would be at the U17 WC. Until recently, he has looked competent in whatever he has done, but in no way spectacular in any regard. But he's really starting to step it up.

I wonder if a MF of him and piggy is too lightweight though?

Imagine the amount of creavity a MF of Piggy, Kroos, Gotze, Ozil and Muller would provide for Gomez/Klose though? With the likes of Podolski, Schurlle, and Reus waiting in the wings.

Finding a reliable partner for Hummels would be the only problem!
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:55 pm

when you consider his position and work rate for the team, then he is very spectacular, in that area no player on planet is as good as him at this age, he is almost complete, he has everything to become the next xavi or pirlo

he never loses possession
he always find his team mates
his long range and short passing is already world class (yesterday his long range pass to klose for the first goal, brilliant; or his goal against napoli, perfect technique; or his pass against brasil for the götze goal)
he is goal scoring too, with a brilliant wide shot




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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:55 pm

At the moment Badstuber is hactually ahead of Hummels in the pecking order, believe it or not... Schweinsteiger is generally more tactically and positionally disciplined than Khedira, but he and Kroos haven't played together in deep midfield too much. Is that combo too much of a good thing? Are they too similar? Time will tell I guess...
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Calidad on Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:50 pm

Why isn't Hoewedes given a chance at CB?
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Ricardo Jol

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Ricardo Jol on Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:13 pm

Alrthough we missed all our real good players like Afellay Robben and Van P. This german team is theeee to be beaten team... They played magnificent football. We all knew you were good, and last night you were already the favourites but what a perfect team....

Well done!!! I don't like you to win it because you won too much already but if you win it you finally deserve it also
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:05 pm

Because Höwedes had a number of sub par performances for his club on that position this season, so Stevens moved him on the RB position where he has been doing really well. He actually looked more than decent the few times he played on that position for Germany, too. Ironically, Germany won the U21 Euros with him and Boateng in the central defence, yet both are not first choice on that position in the senior team. Both have a better chance on the flanks.

Badstuber had a great season so far with Bayern, arguably the most in form German defender of all. IMHO, him (left footed) and Hummels (right footed) should be first choice and given time to gel, with Lahm and Boateng on the flanks. That would be my first choice defence. Hummels needs to learn to keep the concentration level high on the international level though, he tends to have lapses of concentration from time to time which we can't afford on this level.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:38 pm

Ricardo Jol wrote:Alrthough we missed all our real good players like Afellay Robben and Van P. This german team is theeee to be beaten team... They played magnificent football. We all knew you were good, and last night you were already the favourites but what a perfect team....

Well done!!! I don't like you to win it because you won too much already but if you win it you finally deserve it also

Thanks, but come on now, we haven't won shit in 15 years, came pretty close quite a few times. It's not like we're blessed with titles, both on the international and club level. It's about damn time we win something again...

It was just a friendly, Holland will be there for the real thing. The only thing we can take from this match is that the team continues to develop in the right direction and is on a pretty high level already. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm looking forward to next summer, it's going to be one hell of a tournament. So many exciting, strong teams and players. Likely the last truly great Euro...
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by debaser on Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:44 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:Thanks, but come on now, we haven't won shit in 15 years, came pretty close quite a few times. It's not like we're blessed with titles

Violin
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:22 pm

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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:15 am

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/11/16/whats-the-luxusproblem-germany-are-spoilt-for-choice/

“It’s time for black and white.” Not the most catchy of catchphrases, but then again, they were never famed for their clever wordplay.

Heine, Brecht, Tucholsky, Kästner, Rammstein – no talent for words there
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:51 pm

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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:30 pm

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:29 pm

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:08 pm

Interesting suggestion on one alternative system, and inmtriguing if tactical flexibility if the aim that a (genuine) 4-3-3 has still never been tried, particularly after the somewhat bizarre 3-4-2-1 experiment in Ukraine.

Correct that the one obvious/major flaw seems to be pushing Özil out wide (if, say, he were unavailable, it would make more sense with Götze in instead)...

http://invertedwinger.wordpress.com/

4-3-3


Another system Löw could choose to employ, the 4-3-3
4-3-3

Although Löw has, to my knowledge, not yet tried out the 4-3-3, I will try and explain why I think it could work as a plan B for Germany.

The 4-3-3 is perhaps the best system for possession-based play and it would allow Germany to keep possession even more than they already do. The introduction of Kroos, who has been playing brilliantly for both club and country, in a central midfield role would give greater passing options to the side and would also mean that Khedira (or Schweinsteiger) could get forward more, like he did for Real Madrid against Zaragoza on Saturday.
In fact, these three midfielders could take it in turns to go forward, as they are all adept defensively and offensively, and this would give Germany the element of surprise, whereas their system is rather predictable at the moment (except for the movement of the front 4).
With a solid three-man midfield, the full-backs could push further up the field and move into the space vacated by Ozil (who would definitely drift inside) and Muller. Lahm and Boateng have excellent attacking abilities and, if this system was used, they would be able to show that more often.
The counterattacking play of the side would not diminish severely, as they would have three good passers of the ball in midfield (Khedira’s ability in this respect is massively underrated) and they would still have the pace of Muller, Klose and the full-backs. They would only lose the speed of Podolski on the left and Ozil spraying the ball out to the flanks.
Miroslav Klose would have the opportunity to drop deep into ‘the hole’ as he loves to do. He does this quite often at the moment but Ozil is usually occupying that position. This would help drag defenders out of position and allow Muller, Ozil or one of the three midfielders to try and attack the space left by the defender. (This would be slightly like a ‘false 9,’ although Klose would not drop off as often as Messi for Barcelona, Silva for Spain, Fabregas for Barcelona etc.)
As far as my untrained eye can see, one of the only real weaknesses to this system would be the obligation to use Ozil on the wing, where he is not quite as effective, and he tends to drift inside anyway. They could also lose the attacking threat of Muller coming inside, because it is very difficult to play with two wingers who come inside, as Spain showed against England last Saturday.


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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:55 pm

i think there is not a huge difference between the 4-3-3 and the 4-2-3-1, even the 4-1-4-1 is similiar

because our central midfielders so much advanced that they can play everything during a game

kroos, schweinsteiger, khedira, özil almost everywhere during a game, in offensive or defensive way, its just a matter of the coverage when one of them attack

löw said it rightly: in the modern game every midfielder has to defend and attack
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Allen ein frohes neues!! Auf ein denkwürdiges Jahr... Wink

So what about this deeply poor show from Fabio then?

http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/fabio-capello/england-zoff-talente-klau-21830100.bild.html
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:59 am

Capello is an idiot and wrong on so many levels that the retardedness (and hypocrisy) of his words has even made Kevin Prince Boateng look smart...(see KPB's comment on the issue).
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:49 pm

Regarding that bilde Capello article, I assume the gist is about nationality, and the Ozil / Podolski etc issue in German football.

So what is the significance of the pictures of black English players? are Bilde highlighting some kind of hypocrisy by having pictures of Ashley cole and co on there, the suggestion that black = non
English? I think it is. Retards Laugh

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Sheffield gunner on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:03 pm

Looks like Capello has been accusing the Germans of stealing players with dual nationalities from poorer countries. The Germans (quite rightly) are pointing out that players like Özil and Khedira are German born, and the Cole photo and accompanying comment essentially points out that it is no different than England 'stealing' Cole from Barbados because that's where his dad descends from, or Wellbeck from Ghana, etc. Seems like our manager is displaying a fair bit of ignorance.

edit: Just read the whole article, and to be specific, it's the Turkish players that Capello highlights from the World Cup, and they then point out that the Turkish players who played against England (Özil and Tasci) were German-born. So they're pointing out that if this is the criteria for Capello of what is wrong in international football he'd have to ban English players like Wellbeck and Cole.
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:32 pm

Yes I get the point that Capello is talking crap, but Ashley Cole and Mesut Ozil are different cases.

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Sheffield gunner on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:43 pm

Why? I can assume that he grew up more closely identifying with his parents' Turkish culture (if they were Turkish born rather than the children of immigrants) than perhaps Cole did with his father's, but I can't possibly see anything debatable, controversial or wrong with Özil playing for Germany. He was born there, he grew up there, and he developed as a footballer there. We're not even talking about someone who moved at an early age. I have no problem with Capello questioning someone like Cacau playing for Germany - whatever side of the debate you take there, at least there is room for discussion - with Özil I think it is grossly unfair and ignorant for Capello to say anything.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:47 pm

Third generation immigrant even, as Özil's father was born here, too.

Capello is a dinosaur not just on the pitch / sidelines and simply needs to retire. Those comments are ignorant, if not racist, but definitely hypocritical for the reasons mentioned.
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Isco Benny

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Isco Benny on Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:59 pm

Well, Cole never had to renounce his West Indian citizenship because, funnily enough given his parents were both British, he never had it. But- if he wanted to he could have applied for a Barbadian passport and played fo
r them if he wasn't deemed good enough to play for England. That option always remained open to him.

Ozil on the otherhand was born to two Turkish parents, thus from the outset was a classic case of duel nationality, BUT the laws in Germany meant he had to choose either being a Turkish or German Citizen once he was 23 (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5401847,00.html). That Ozil chose Germany is neither wrong nor does it not make sense given he was a regular in the German Youth set up by then, but it's different to Cole whose nationality was far more clear cut and also not subject to effectively severing his minority citizenship.

It's a clumsy and ill conceived comparison at best.
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:19 pm

The only one making idiotic comparisons here is Capello, I can't think why you're defending him.

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