Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:58 am

blutgraetsche wrote:Schweinsteiger and Özil likely to be benched in the first group match vs. Portugal, Kroos to start:

http://www.sport1.de/de/fussball/fussball_dfbteam/artikel_904323.html

Lahm likely to play in the central midfield in this tournament. A more defensive minded central midfield triangle of Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Khedira against strong opposition is being speculated also.

i like it, so we have plenty of impact players on the bench

-------lahm/schweinsteiger------khedira/kramer
schürrle/müller----------kroos/özil------götze/poldi

my god still freaking 6 days


the bench will be key in this tournament
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:28 pm

Good article about the increasing number of matches players have to play each season, leading to injuries. A lot of stars are going to miss this WC because of injuries, or aren't fully fit. Fifa are to blame for this as well.

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/wm/wm2014/1406/Artikel/weltmeisterschaft-brasilien-ueberlastung-cristiano-ronaldo-regeneration-verletzungen-ueberbelastung.html

Since the article is German, I'll post it here.


In related news, Reus' injury is more serious than first thought. He'll be out for three months, as BVB said today.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by mongrel hawk on Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:24 pm

Brazilian season is the longest in the world. A Brazilian top team sometimes play more than 80 matches a season. And I have to hear some idiots saying they should even play more because they earn too much.

Brian 2468

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Brian 2468 on Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:31 am

Kroos. *germany 2008 the worst german team to ever played a final* 2002 against Brazil WC final you were played off the field this was your worst team. Ale
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:06 am

Brian 2468 wrote:Kroos. *germany 2008 the worst german team to ever played a final* 2002 against Brazil WC final you were played off the field this was your worst team. Ale







you are right, the 2002 was worse, but it had still some great players, and some CL winners from bayern, or cl final players from leverkusen, we were also hit by plenty of injurys (deisler, nowotny)

linke
jeremies
kahn
ballack
hamann
schneider
klose
frings

only it was a typical german gameplan
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Ä

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Ä on Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:38 am

Brian 2468 wrote:Kroos. *germany 2008 the worst german team to ever played a final* 2002 against Brazil WC final you were played off the field this was your worst team. Ale

BULLSHIT

Germany were equal to Brazil in 2002

with Ballack in the final as well

we would even have won


Brian 2468

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Brian 2468 on Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:20 pm

Those great players may have had more possession and game stats but the quality Brazil had over Germany was easy to see. They were a frail team up against real quality.

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:22 am

I've a feeling that germans were much more positive when they had less talented squads. Smile
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:51 am

Brazilians are falling in love with Germany. They are number 1 here in sympathy. It would be natural for Brazilians to support Portugal due to cultural affinity and to the fact that Germany is a bigger threat as a team, but now I think most Brazilians will choose Germany during the game.

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Brian 2468 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:59 am

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:I've a feeling that germans were much more positive when they had less talented squads. Smile

Interesting problem. Look at Spain they probably had just as many great players and teams over the years but could not burst through and become a world force until recently. Germany are more talented today than that 2002 team that special X factor missing from Spain was found and they flourished Germany need to do the same.

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:10 am

Brian 2468 wrote:
Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:I've a feeling that germans were much more positive when they had less talented squads. Smile

Interesting problem. Look at Spain they probably had just as many great players and teams over the years but could not burst through and become a world force until recently. Germany are more talented today than that 2002 team that special X factor missing from Spain was found and they flourished Germany need to do the same.

There was an evident lack of quality players in 2002 and 2006. They were too young in 2010. Now they have top talents at their prime like Neuer, Lahm, Hummels, Schweini, Kroos and Muller. Although I know Low is poorly rated, IMO they have more reasons to be confident now than in the recent past.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:33 am

Most Brazilian pundits are saying Germany and Spain have the best players as a whole, and I guess they are right.
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:14 am

mongrel hawk wrote:Brazilians are falling in love with Germany. They are number 1 here in sympathy. It would be natural for Brazilians to support Portugal due to cultural affinity and to the fact that Germany is a bigger threat as a team, but now I think most Brazilians will choose Germany during the game.

really? thats cool  cheers 


but sometimes it`s better to be the most hated nation  Evil or Very Mad 


also DI CAPRIO arrived in Rio, he is half german, and like in 2010 he will again support US  cheers 
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Kroos

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Kroos on Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:19 am

mongrel hawk wrote:Most Brazilian pundits are saying Germany and Spain have the best players as a whole, and I guess they are right.  

of course they are right


the problem is the world doesn`t rate our defenders

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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:54 am

Even Beckenbauer, Vogts or Kohler would look foolish in Löw's team, considering the lack of protection the central defence gets from midfield often, making it easy for opposition attackers to run at them with pace and hence give them a huge advantage. Defending is done by the team, this is even truer now than it used to be in the old days.

We could have a ridiculously strong defence if we really wanted to, but it is not priority.

110%

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:54 am

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:I've a feeling that germans were much more positive when they had less talented squads. Smile

Possibly they had a different mentality then (working hard for each other, never giving up etc.). But they always had enough talented players as well, and the mix worked. Now they seem to be more talented but "soft" (with the exception of Muller and Neuer).
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:30 am

It's true. My main gripe with this team, after Löw that is, is the lack of character. I just can't trust this team. The qualification match against Sweden when they pissed away a four goal lead, after playing some of the very best football I had seen in my life, was the tipping point for me.

Our teams back in the day may not have been blessed with so much talent (although it's arguable considering the 1990 and especially the 1970s team(s), but you could at least always trust them to give their best until the very end of the match. This trust has been lost.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:09 am

Mesut Özil hits back at criticism: ‘I’ve earned the trust of Löw and Wenger’

• Özil points to fact that he has now won three finals
• ‘I am an experienced player who takes responsibility’

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/11/mesut-ozil-germany-criticism-low-wenger

Stop talking to the press and start doing the talking on the pitch.

Losing the starting place has done him a lot of good.

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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:33 pm

Losing his starting place, because he didn't start in the last test game against Armenia, is a bit of an exaggeration, no?

I wish I could believe Löw would (be prepared to) drop him for a critical game, but I'd have to see it first.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:53 pm

German media speculated in the last few days that both Özil and Schweinsteiger may not start against Portugal. Don't think it's too far fetched, but rather realistic.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:43 pm

Here's an example for that:

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/dfb-team/1406/Artikel/wm-2014-vorbereitung-mittelfeld-besetzung-aufstellung-lahm-schweinsteiger-khedira-kroos-loew-guardiola.html

This part in particular is interesting:


Mit Lahm zum 4-3-3

Auch Löw wollte sich zuletzt nicht mehr so klar festlegen wie noch im Oktober. Trotzdem scheint Lahms Rolle klar, er wird im Mittelfeld beginnen. Das war zumindest in den ersten Trainingseinheiten zu beobachten. Allerdings dürfte diese Personalie auch Auswirkungen auf die komplette Statik der Mannschaft haben.

Lahm ist als alleiniger Sechser in einem Mittelfeld-Dreieck besser aufgehoben als auf der Doppelsechs. Das bewährte 4-2-3-1 wäre damit gesprengt, das bei Bayern etablierte 4-3-3 käme zum Einsatz. Löw testete diese Variante gegen Armenien.

Das würde auch Toni Kroos entgegenkommen, der sich auf der Halbposition wohler fühlt als als offensiver Part der Doppelsechs und dabei auch noch einen Spielmacher wie Mesut Özil absichern muss. Und Kroos' Chancen auf einen Platz in der Startelf stehen gut. Er hat als einziger der Kandidaten für diese Positionen die Vorbereitung bisher ohne Probleme absolviert.
Kroos scheint gesetzt

Ein möglicher Leidtragender dieser Anordnung könnte Özil sein, dessen Position abgeschafft werden würde. Für Löw ist der Arsenal-Spielmacher aber immer auch eine Option für die Position des Stürmers, ebenso wie Mario Götze.

Dass Kroos und Khedira dagegen die Doppelsechs hinter dem Spielmacher Özil bilden, scheint unwahrscheinlich. Das zeigte beim defensiven Umschaltspiel gegen Kamerun erhebliche Probleme im Schließen des Zentrums.

Es bliebe damit noch eine Position für Khedira oder Schweinsteiger. Khediras Auftritt gegen Armenien hat gezeigt, dass er mit dieser Rolle doch recht fremdelt, Schweinsteiger wäre besser geeignet. Die Besetzung bleibt eine Frage der Fitness.

So basically the introduction of Lahm in the midfield happens / could happen at the expense of Özil, as the team switches to a 4-3-3 (like) system, making the CAM / "playmaker" position in the 4-2-3-1 we used so far obsolete. Özil could stil play, of course, but we have better "specialists" for the attacking positions in a 4-3-3.
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:13 pm

Cheers Blut. The tactical flexibility (including the alternative defensive option) if true is much needed and good to see, even if it hasn't been practised sufficiently in real games – what concerns me after the loss of Reus is that Löw doesn't really seem to trust Götze, certainly not on the left or really anywhere except the false 9, which has never really been a storming success. It seems a shame after everything to start Poldi there, despite his super (half) game last Friday and decent end-of-season form (not in the cup semis and final...) – would much rather use him as a weapon from the bench.

But as you'd rightly point out it's further back that we need to be more worried about...
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:29 pm

I agree that Löw has still failed to use Götze properly, which is a real pity considering his talent. Poldi seems to have the enthusiasm and mentality needed in a WC, although I can see him struggling against strong opposition. I agree that he is a good option from the bench, as is Schürrle. Expect at least one of them to start vs. Portugal. Schürrle's finishing and pace may come in handy in particular.

4-3-3 is a sensible option for this team. Strengthen the centre against counters, make use of the quality in the attacking midfield positions, get the best out of Kroos and Schweinsteiger, with Lahm covering for them (both ideal #8s). One thing I hope for though is Löw to take the risk with inexperienced Durm instead of Höwedes, no fan of the "four centre backs" approach speculated in the media. We do need the width someone like Durm adds. However, I do like the idea to play 3 at the back if we're trailing behind and need a goal (3-4-3, 3-5-2 whatever).
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:36 pm

Löw just confirmed that Lahm will play on the #6 vs. Portugal.

Press conference highlights with Löw:

http://www.spox.com/de/sport/fussball/rundumdenball/1406/1206/tagesticker-kevin-volland-real-madrid-mario-mandzukic-bayern-muenchen-brasilien-kroatien-wm-2014-dfb-team.html
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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by Allez les rouges on Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:45 pm

Yeah the centre-backs at full-back I don't like at all. It seems it's going to be Hummels-Merte no matter what, though I guess Boateng has no right to demand a central spot at the moment. I hope he has the courage to put Durm in on the left – as for the right, I was hoping for Großkreutz if Lahm's in midfield, but then what happened the moment he came in last week suggests that's not a great idea either.

I just thing it's generally important for the balance and stability of a defence to play proper full-backs, even if that looks more attacking. When Arsenal had no fit wide defenders a couple of years ago for a while, we really struggled. (In fact Jan 2012, around this time, was the last game Mertesacker and Koscielny together lost before the 5-1 at Anfield, with no proper full-backs to support them...)

Just hope Löw has some clue what he-s doing – Zeit nur zu meckern ist vorbei, we know what's wrong but it won't help any more. Time to get excited...
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:54 pm

I agree with you, but it needs to be said that the issue with "proper" fullbacks is a lesser one in a 4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1, provided we use players on the wide attacking positions who tend to stretch the opposition defence instead of congesting the centre.

Löw seems very positive and happy. Apparently, the preparations went well, the players "were aggressive and showed great enthusiasm" in training. Time will tell. Yeah, the ship has sailed, makes no sense to go on about Löw now.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:24 pm

Things finally clicking for Germany

RIO DE JANEIRO -- Joachim Löw's Germany have taken much more time than anticipated -- and surely much more time than they'd hoped they would need -- but in the past 24 hours or so, things have begun to come together at last.

All the injury doubts have cleared up, and you didn't have to read too hard between the lines of player interviews, Löw's statements and those of chief scout Urs Siegenthaler to arrive at a good idea of the national team's expected lineup, formation and tactics for the opening game against Portugal on Monday. Two decisions in central midfield, while not unexpected, shape the rest of the team, as well as their strategy.

First, Captain Philipp Lahm will be one of two holding midfielders, next to Sami Khedira. The Bayern Munich skipper gave the game away as early as last weekend when he told The Guardian that he "expected" to feature in a central role after playing there for 45 minutes in the last friendly against Armenia.

Making way: Bayern teammate Bastian Schweinsteiger. Löw will be able to cite the 29-year-old's fitness struggles as a reason for his exclusion, but benching Germany's leading midfielder of the past two tournaments has an added political dimension. Schweinsteiger might not be the sort of player to cause a fuss, but by leaving him out, Löw also sends a message to his team and beyond. This time -- unlike at Euro 2012 -- there will be no deference to big names.

As strange as that might have sounded a few months ago, Lahm is the safer option at the moment, especially if you consider that Khedira, who has never been a true holding midfielder by nature, is also still in the process of coming back to full fitness.

Löw's second big decision: Toni Kroos will (probably) take up the No. 10 role. The Bayern player has been staking a claim on the more defensive position in the middle of the park, but the national manager wants him to play at the top of a midfield three in which he'll have more control. "The ball is safe with Toni," Bayern assistant coach Herrmann Gerland once said, and not losing the ball softly in the attacking third will be more of a priority to Germany in the hot Salvador,  conditions than playing another attacking midfielder in his place. Kroos will also naturally play deeper than Mesut Özil or Mario Götze would do, so Löw's favoured 4-2-3-1 system will in fact be much more like a 4-3-3.

That in turn frees up the wide players -- just a little bit. They can stay higher up the pitch and provide an outlet for a more direct game. Siegenthaler, one of Löw's key advisers, told Frankfurter Rundschau that it would be a folly to play a "European game in South American conditions" and that high pressing would be impossible due to the humidity. Germany will thus start their attacks from a deeper position. They will still seek to dominate possession, but having the ball will take a backseat to not getting caught out on the break.

"It's vitally important that we don't chase a lead in those conditions," Lahm explained to me last week. In other words, Löw will seek to modify his approach and tailor it to the realities at hand. The idea of not conceding, not long ago treated as a mere afterthought by Löw, will be paramount in this group in Brazil.

Thomas Müller should start in the right attacking role. On the opposite flank, where there's suddenly a Marco Reus-shaped hole to fill, it's a battle between Lukas Podolski -- arguably Germany's most convincing performer during the tournament preparations -- and André Schürrle. The latter could get the nod due to his superior pace and ability to also play through the middle.

Özil is likely to play up front as a "false 9," but him, Müller and Schürrle/Podolski are supposed to keep changing positions constantly. The idea is to tire out the Portuguese in the first 60 or 70 minutes; then, Götze, Miroslav Klose or Schürrle/Podolski can come in to finish the job later on.

"Having players who can make a real difference from the bench is key," Lahm said. "Because the conditions will make it difficult to create chances while everyone is still at their physical best." Löw and Siegenthaler have made similar noises. Neither expect Germany to be able to play with the same fluidity of movement while spaces remain tight, so it makes sense to break up the 90 minutes into two, or even three, different mini-games with different personnel and tactics for each segment.

It's not a revolutionary concept but still a bit of departure for Löw, who was unwilling to moderate his footballing ideals in the past. This time, Germany will be a little more reactive, willing to lure out the opposition in order to be a bit less elaborate (read: quicker) on the break.

In defence, Jérôme Boateng will line up on the right side against Cristiano Ronaldo. The Bayern Munich centre-back is happier in the middle and not great going forward, but he also provides a better matchup than some might suspect. The 25-year-old is the fastest German defender; he's also their best athlete. Per Mertesacker (Arsenal) and Mats Hummels (Dortmund) will have to find an understanding in the centre, a partnership that has been a little lacking off the pitch. That leaves one open place. Benedikt Höwedes of Schalke 04 has reportedly made up some key ground on the inexperienced Erik Durm (Dortmund) -- Höwedes was tipped by Bild on Wednesday to take that spot in the first XI.

It goes without saying that the real test of all these plans will come only once the game actually kicks off against Portugal, just as the real test for "the outstanding team spirit" that Löw praised will arrive only in the wake of some players coming to terms with being left out of the starting XI. But at least, at last, Germany now know where they stand, tactically, and with whom. Now that there's certainty, a bit of optimism can flow from that.

It's about time.

http://www.espnfc.com/team/germany/481/blog/post/1874154/things-finally-clicking-for-germany


A rather optimistic take on things by Honigstein, probably fed up with all the negativity. Don't know if I agree though, but Löw willing to at least consider more tactical flexibility seems likely, which is most definitely a good thing.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:09 pm

Hummels: "the most important title in football is the WC, no doubt. Of course I'd like to win the CL also, but the WC is more important."

Ale

For Hummels and a number of other German players (and most of the German press), Brazil is the favourite to win the WC.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:21 pm

Pictures of the Union Berlin stadium "Alte Försterei", where fans enjoyed the opening match yesterday evening, sitting on couches ...in the middle of the football pitch.










I miss Berlin. Ale

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Re: Die Mannschaft aka Jogi's Löwen ;)

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:27 pm

Have to say that is very cool. I like the little touches like the bedside lamp.

Was there a kitchen area where wives can hang out and prepare nibbles?

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