El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

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worms.

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Registration date : 2011-12-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by worms. on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:28 pm

Good article,I'm confident he will come good,he's too talented a player not to.
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chalkontheboots

Number of posts : 5
Registration date : 2012-04-09

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by chalkontheboots on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:27 pm

I posted an analysis of the game on my blog here:-

http://chalkontheboots.wordpress.com/2012/04/22/el-clasico-tactical-analysis/

I appreciate I am a bit slow getting this up on the board but hope some of you find it interesting.
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The Pröfessör

Number of posts : 10076
Age : 67
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by The Pröfessör on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:40 am

The Easter Bunny wrote:
The Professor wrote:
The Easter Bunny wrote:
Més que un club wrote:
The Professor wrote:
Barca have clearly deteriorated this season, Madrid were even not good.

Barca should move Cesc into centre mid and rebuild a new team.

Xavi's body can't handle 50+ games a season anymore.

The same Cesc who always loses the ball, has a relatively poor first touch and positioning is nowhere near Iniesta or Xavi's level?


Rebuild a new team? Laughing

Not sure if serious or just stupid.#kneejerk

I can't believe some people want us to sack Pep or rebuild a new team because we have "only" won 3 out of 4 La Liga titles with Pep. Doh

What worms is saying, is correct. Cesc himself has admitted he cannot play the "Xavi role" and is tactically to naive to play in the Barca midfield. He said this during January, Barca do not need a new team or do they need to rebuild. The lack of form this season is down to a lack of desire after being the alpha male of clubs for 3 years. If Madrid win the CL and the League I can see Barca coming back stronger than ever before, what is important for Barca is to look at finding a new cb/lb. Puyol is ageing and concerns over Abidals fitness are obvious, Sacko or whatever his name is might be a target in the summer, however with PSG's many millions how likely that will be, I do not know.

Bright points of their seasons (attack)
-Cuenca
-Tello
-Messi
-Fabregas (first half of the season)
-Sanchez

It will take Cesc about 1-3 seasons to learn the Xaxi role, because I seriously doubt Thaigo has the sense to play it effectively..

Doh

Did u watch Arsenal pre 2008/2009?
Fabregas became one of the most sought after footballers on the planet playing precisely that role. He could run games against the best teams(players) since his teens. Let me break down the 'Xavi role' for u as u two make it seem like it's a role only Xavi can play: it's about having the sense to spot space(either to drop into that space to recive the ball or move into that space with the ball when required to), capable of receiving the ball under pressure, knowing when to play it short or long or keeping it at crucial moments and also having the ability to picture moves to enable u to make the best pass selection. Cesc could do all of those things at a very high level, in his teens - which is what made him a special player. And his passing vision is among the best I have ever seen, better than the Xavis, Zidanes etc and more into the Gutis, Tottis etc category.

http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/fabregas-i-was-tactically-naive/2ikwcvs8
ok Fabregas admits himself he is tactically naive, I can't find his interview in which he said he struggles to player deeper. But if you want me to find it I could probably dig it up somewhere. I agree with you that Cesc is a brilliant player, I never said he wasn't.

He was probably refering to his last 3 seasons with us. He had a free role, dropped deep at times but was mostly found in forward positions combining with RVP.

A point of observation; I think u jumped in without knowing what the different in opinion was between worms and I. He seems to suggest Fabrgas lacks the skillset(relatively poor 1st touch, can't keep the ball etc), whilst u seem to suggest Cesc has got to the talent but just has to be re-educated for him to be able to play inplace of Xavi, that's your point right? If so, those are two different points, the reason why I dunno why u agreed with him in the 1st place.

I thought u nmeant he can't play the Xavi role(as in playing as the team's conductor - something he did for us) which is quite different from saying he can't replicate the way Xavi plays specifically for Barca. Ofcourse every player needs to be re-educated into the team's play when he switches club. It will be a futile excercise though to try to get Cesc play the Xavi way, they are different players and there isn't a Xavi anywhere out there and we probably won't see one for a long time but as far as replacements go, Cesc is as best u can get IMO. You'll lose that extra 10-15% possession which Xavi adds to every team but you'll expect more throughballs and lofted passes(for the likes of Sanchez and Pedro) from deep. I don't think the change will necessarily be for the worse, it will just be different and could turn out to be more effective.

Anyway, Xavi could prove me wrong and continue to be as reliable fitness wise as he's been over the years but looking from the outside he doesn't strike me as a fit player who'll play 50+ games aseason anymore, hence why I 'm advocating for a switch from this over reliance on Xavi to get their game going.



worms.

Number of posts : 5010
Supports : BALENCE, PROGRESS, Us(Liverpool), Us(Barcelona) ,Us(Lazio), Us(Napoli), Us(Athletic Club), Us(Valencia), Us(Zenit St Petersburg), Us(Russia), Us(Uruguay), Us(España)!
Favourite Player : Goldado,Zlatan,Robben aka The Bald Prince, Busquets has now won the Euro's x1, World Cup x1, La Liga x3, UCL x2, Coppa DR x2, UEFA SC x2, Club World Cup x2. At the age of 23
Registration date : 2011-12-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:50 am

The Professor wrote:
The Easter Bunny wrote:
The Professor wrote:
The Easter Bunny wrote:
Més que un club wrote:
The Professor wrote:
Barca have clearly deteriorated this season, Madrid were even not good.

Barca should move Cesc into centre mid and rebuild a new team.

Xavi's body can't handle 50+ games a season anymore.

The same Cesc who always loses the ball, has a relatively poor first touch and positioning is nowhere near Iniesta or Xavi's level?


Rebuild a new team? Laughing

Not sure if serious or just stupid.#kneejerk

I can't believe some people want us to sack Pep or rebuild a new team because we have "only" won 3 out of 4 La Liga titles with Pep. Doh

What worms is saying, is correct. Cesc himself has admitted he cannot play the "Xavi role" and is tactically to naive to play in the Barca midfield. He said this during January, Barca do not need a new team or do they need to rebuild. The lack of form this season is down to a lack of desire after being the alpha male of clubs for 3 years. If Madrid win the CL and the League I can see Barca coming back stronger than ever before, what is important for Barca is to look at finding a new cb/lb. Puyol is ageing and concerns over Abidals fitness are obvious, Sacko or whatever his name is might be a target in the summer, however with PSG's many millions how likely that will be, I do not know.

Bright points of their seasons (attack)
-Cuenca
-Tello
-Messi
-Fabregas (first half of the season)
-Sanchez

It will take Cesc about 1-3 seasons to learn the Xaxi role, because I seriously doubt Thaigo has the sense to play it effectively..

Doh

Did u watch Arsenal pre 2008/2009?
Fabregas became one of the most sought after footballers on the planet playing precisely that role. He could run games against the best teams(players) since his teens. Let me break down the 'Xavi role' for u as u two make it seem like it's a role only Xavi can play: it's about having the sense to spot space(either to drop into that space to recive the ball or move into that space with the ball when required to), capable of receiving the ball under pressure, knowing when to play it short or long or keeping it at crucial moments and also having the ability to picture moves to enable u to make the best pass selection. Cesc could do all of those things at a very high level, in his teens - which is what made him a special player. And his passing vision is among the best I have ever seen, better than the Xavis, Zidanes etc and more into the Gutis, Tottis etc category.

http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/fabregas-i-was-tactically-naive/2ikwcvs8
ok Fabregas admits himself he is tactically naive, I can't find his interview in which he said he struggles to player deeper. But if you want me to find it I could probably dig it up somewhere. I agree with you that Cesc is a brilliant player, I never said he wasn't.

He seems to suggest Fabrgas lacks the skillset(relatively poor 1st touch, can't keep the ball etc), whilst u seem to suggest Cesc has got to the talent but just has to be re-educated for him to be able to play inplace of Xavi

I suggested that he has a relatively poor 1st touch,relatively poor dribbling in tight spaces AND the fact that he needs to adapt his game mentally(Positioning,patience with the ball etc).Almost every Barca fan will tell you this

I think he can improve these thing with time and be worthy of a starting place in CM but I also think he will never be as good or as effective as Xavi.At the moment Thiago is better than him in CM,that's how much Cesc has to improve.


Last edited by worms on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Pröfessör

Number of posts : 10076
Age : 67
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by The Pröfessör on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:52 am


Nah u didn't.

Quotes to back that up?

worms.

Number of posts : 5010
Supports : BALENCE, PROGRESS, Us(Liverpool), Us(Barcelona) ,Us(Lazio), Us(Napoli), Us(Athletic Club), Us(Valencia), Us(Zenit St Petersburg), Us(Russia), Us(Uruguay), Us(España)!
Favourite Player : Goldado,Zlatan,Robben aka The Bald Prince, Busquets has now won the Euro's x1, World Cup x1, La Liga x3, UCL x2, Coppa DR x2, UEFA SC x2, Club World Cup x2. At the age of 23
Registration date : 2011-12-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:57 am

The Professor wrote:
Nah u didn't.

Quotes to back that up?

I read your statement wrong,I just edited my post.
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The Pröfessör

Number of posts : 10076
Age : 67
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by The Pröfessör on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:01 am

Here are some of your quotes:

The same Cesc who always loses the ball, has a relatively poor first touch and positioning is nowhere near Iniesta or Xavi's level?

You haven't watched us much this year have you? If you think we should replace Xavi or Iniesta in the middle for Cesc then you're seriously delusional about Cesc's ability.

Your'e just another delusional Cesc fan-boy...nothing more,and yes Fabregas's first touch is bad compared to players like Xavi and Iniestas,take it from someone who has watched virtually everyone of our games this season.

How u managed to turn it all to a Cesc vs Xavi/Iniesta i never know as i never compared him to any of them nor did i say he was better.

I merely suggested Barca move him central as I believe Xavi won't be reliable fitness wise anymore for Barca's game to be so dependednt on him.
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The Pröfessör

Number of posts : 10076
Age : 67
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by The Pröfessör on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:02 am

worms wrote:
The Professor wrote:
Nah u didn't.

Quotes to back that up?

I read your statement wrong,I just edited my post.

Oh just seeing this now.

Fair enough.

Edit: Btw u can forget this post.


Last edited by The Professor on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Pröfessör

Number of posts : 10076
Age : 67
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by The Pröfessör on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:20 am

worms wrote:
The Professor wrote:
The Easter Bunny wrote:
The Professor wrote:
The Easter Bunny wrote:
Més que un club wrote:
The Professor wrote:
Barca have clearly deteriorated this season, Madrid were even not good.

Barca should move Cesc into centre mid and rebuild a new team.

Xavi's body can't handle 50+ games a season anymore.

The same Cesc who always loses the ball, has a relatively poor first touch and positioning is nowhere near Iniesta or Xavi's level?


Rebuild a new team? Laughing

Not sure if serious or just stupid.#kneejerk

I can't believe some people want us to sack Pep or rebuild a new team because we have "only" won 3 out of 4 La Liga titles with Pep. Doh

What worms is saying, is correct. Cesc himself has admitted he cannot play the "Xavi role" and is tactically to naive to play in the Barca midfield. He said this during January, Barca do not need a new team or do they need to rebuild. The lack of form this season is down to a lack of desire after being the alpha male of clubs for 3 years. If Madrid win the CL and the League I can see Barca coming back stronger than ever before, what is important for Barca is to look at finding a new cb/lb. Puyol is ageing and concerns over Abidals fitness are obvious, Sacko or whatever his name is might be a target in the summer, however with PSG's many millions how likely that will be, I do not know.

Bright points of their seasons (attack)
-Cuenca
-Tello
-Messi
-Fabregas (first half of the season)
-Sanchez

It will take Cesc about 1-3 seasons to learn the Xaxi role, because I seriously doubt Thaigo has the sense to play it effectively..

Doh

Did u watch Arsenal pre 2008/2009?
Fabregas became one of the most sought after footballers on the planet playing precisely that role. He could run games against the best teams(players) since his teens. Let me break down the 'Xavi role' for u as u two make it seem like it's a role only Xavi can play: it's about having the sense to spot space(either to drop into that space to recive the ball or move into that space with the ball when required to), capable of receiving the ball under pressure, knowing when to play it short or long or keeping it at crucial moments and also having the ability to picture moves to enable u to make the best pass selection. Cesc could do all of those things at a very high level, in his teens - which is what made him a special player. And his passing vision is among the best I have ever seen, better than the Xavis, Zidanes etc and more into the Gutis, Tottis etc category.

http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/fabregas-i-was-tactically-naive/2ikwcvs8
ok Fabregas admits himself he is tactically naive, I can't find his interview in which he said he struggles to player deeper. But if you want me to find it I could probably dig it up somewhere. I agree with you that Cesc is a brilliant player, I never said he wasn't.

He seems to suggest Fabrgas lacks the skillset(relatively poor 1st touch, can't keep the ball etc), whilst u seem to suggest Cesc has got to the talent but just has to be re-educated for him to be able to play inplace of Xavi

I suggested that he has a relatively poor 1st touch,relatively poor dribbling in tight spaces AND the fact that he needs to adapt his game mentally(Positioning,patience with the ball etc).Almost every Barca fan will tell you this

I think he can improve these thing with time and be worthy of a starting place in CM but I also think he will never be as good or as effective as Xavi.At the moment Thiago is better than him in CM,that's how much Cesc has to improve.

That's pure nonsense! I won't even go into it because that point doesn't merit much attention.

Cesc hardly dribbled when he 1st burst on to the scene, but he added so much power and dribbling to his game over the years. See that goal against Spurs, he won't have scored it seasons earlier. You can repeat it as much as u like but Cesc doesn't lose the ball when pressed, he can twist and turn his way out of trouble much the way Xavi does. Xavi doesn't do much dribbling either , it's more twists and turns, and body feints, to help get out of trouble. Alonso at madrid is the same.

Let's see where Thiago is after the next 2 seasons ok

I dunno whether he'll be better than Xavi in the long run(why does this interest u? and why bring it up now?) but 1 thing I know for sure; I'd take 24 years old Cesc over 24 years old Xavi. Even at this moment I think Cesc is superior in the final 3rd.

Btw Don't give a fuck what Barca fans think(so cut this 'ask all Barca fans' nonsense). I have seen Cesc play more often than they've done over the years.

worms.

Number of posts : 5010
Supports : BALENCE, PROGRESS, Us(Liverpool), Us(Barcelona) ,Us(Lazio), Us(Napoli), Us(Athletic Club), Us(Valencia), Us(Zenit St Petersburg), Us(Russia), Us(Uruguay), Us(España)!
Favourite Player : Goldado,Zlatan,Robben aka The Bald Prince, Busquets has now won the Euro's x1, World Cup x1, La Liga x3, UCL x2, Coppa DR x2, UEFA SC x2, Club World Cup x2. At the age of 23
Registration date : 2011-12-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:40 am

I will say what Barca fans think because believe it or not it IS relative as seen as most Barca fans have watched more Barca games than you.Most Barca fans including me will tell you he has a poor first touch compared to Iniesta,Thiago and Xavi.You can cry all you want about it but your opinion is in the minority.

When I say dribbling I am not judging him because he can't beat players like Messi,I'm judging him on what I (and many other Barca fans) perceive to be a lack of ability when it comes to keeping possession by dribbling his way out of pressure.Again you can disagree all you want but don't be so arrogant to think that your opinion is worth more than the majority of Barcelona fans.

Look how emotional you are getting insulting Thiago,see how good Thiago is in 2 years? Why in 2 years? He's better than Cesc now in CM(Again your opinion is in the minority but don't let that stop your agenda).But but it's Cesc's first season in Spain and he's playing in a totally different system,well yeah but it's Thiagos first season as a professional football and he's 21!

Would I take Cesc at 24 over Xavi at 24? Na I wouldn't Xavi won La Liga Spanish Player of the Year when he was 24/25 so he was obviously better than Cesc is now because Cesc has been poor in CM.

Btw I'm sure Barca fans don't give a fuck what a Cesc fan-boy thinks as well.
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The Pröfessör

Number of posts : 10076
Age : 67
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by The Pröfessör on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:52 am


Laugh Laugh Laugh

You are a fucking genius Worms.

Tell me, do u think santa claus is a Barca fan?

worms.

Number of posts : 5010
Supports : BALENCE, PROGRESS, Us(Liverpool), Us(Barcelona) ,Us(Lazio), Us(Napoli), Us(Athletic Club), Us(Valencia), Us(Zenit St Petersburg), Us(Russia), Us(Uruguay), Us(España)!
Favourite Player : Goldado,Zlatan,Robben aka The Bald Prince, Busquets has now won the Euro's x1, World Cup x1, La Liga x3, UCL x2, Coppa DR x2, UEFA SC x2, Club World Cup x2. At the age of 23
Registration date : 2011-12-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:00 am

He can't even hold a argument.
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The Pröfessör

Number of posts : 10076
Age : 67
Registration date : 2006-08-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by The Pröfessör on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:09 am

worms wrote:He can't even hold a argument.

Who, Santa?

Someone just told me he's a Bilbao fan. Can u confirm this?
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S4P

Number of posts : 14358
Age : 37
Supports : Chelsea
Registration date : 2007-03-24

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by S4P on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:36 am

worms wrote:Would I take Cesc at 24 over Xavi at 24? Na I wouldn't Xavi won La Liga Spanish Player of the Year when he was 24/25 so he was obviously better than Cesc is now

That's a great way to justify an opinion on who's better worms. Ale

worms.

Number of posts : 5010
Supports : BALENCE, PROGRESS, Us(Liverpool), Us(Barcelona) ,Us(Lazio), Us(Napoli), Us(Athletic Club), Us(Valencia), Us(Zenit St Petersburg), Us(Russia), Us(Uruguay), Us(España)!
Favourite Player : Goldado,Zlatan,Robben aka The Bald Prince, Busquets has now won the Euro's x1, World Cup x1, La Liga x3, UCL x2, Coppa DR x2, UEFA SC x2, Club World Cup x2. At the age of 23
Registration date : 2011-12-07

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:29 am

S4P wrote:
worms wrote:Would I take Cesc at 24 over Xavi at 24? Na I wouldn't Xavi won La Liga Spanish Player of the Year when he was 24/25 so he was obviously better than Cesc is now

That's a great way to justify an opinion on who's better worms. Ale

It's a great way to justify who was better playing CM at 24 years of age. <Ale>
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S4P

Number of posts : 14358
Age : 37
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Registration date : 2007-03-24

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by S4P on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:07 pm

worms wrote:
S4P wrote:
worms wrote:Would I take Cesc at 24 over Xavi at 24? Na I wouldn't Xavi won La Liga Spanish Player of the Year when he was 24/25 so he was obviously better than Cesc is now

That's a great way to justify an opinion on who's better worms. Ale

It's a great way to justify who was better playing CM at 24 years of age. <Ale>

Aguero pipped Messi to the Foreign Player of the Year award in 2007-08. Valero won the Spanish player award last season. Surely you are not going to say that he is better than your midfielders simply because he won the award?
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messiah

Number of posts : 3084
Registration date : 2011-11-03

Re: El Clásico: Real Madrid v Barcelona

Post by messiah on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:29 pm

Hate these age comparisons, its such a studied way to compare players, is cesc better than xavi at 24, maybe, will cesc be better than xavi and 28 unlikely

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