Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

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The Easter Bunny

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by The Easter Bunny on Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:45 pm

Twitter rumours that barca are offering cash 9 Villa for RVP o_0
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Super Progress

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Super Progress on Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:55 pm

EMP wrote:
Super Progress 2012 wrote:As Jaime has said historically Spain has done well with Real Madrid and Barcelona being the top dogs. Currently Malaga have the money and is climbing well so I don't think Valencia is particularly crucial anymore since Malaga has stepped up. If people want a more competitive league then it rests on Malage to make it exciting. Once Valencia gets their house in order they can come back and compete but I don't see that happening in the next 2-3 years and especially since Malaga will take the third place that was secure for Valencia previously.

You ignore the point which is that both Barcelona and Valencia built their houses on sand, but they were both bailed out of debt when it threatened to cave in, so they could shore up the foundations and build on it soundly for the success they now enjoy. Valencia was the only team to seriously threaten to break the stranglehold and if it had received the same financial support when it needed it then who knows what could have been achieved? They have lost some exceptionally good players,some to Barca and Real and even Malaga. How can they compete in a system that not only robs them of talent but strengthens rivals at their expense? The fact that Valencia is seen as a feeder club that will develop grea talent in some cases further, but then almost ineviatably lose that talent, including to rivals, Barca, Real Madrid and even Malaga says it all. What use is financial fair play when it punishes Valencia, but rewards Barcelona and Real when they did the same thing?

Valencia has little chance of getting its house in order in the foreseeable future. To pay for the stadium and the debt, it needs success. It can't get that without being able to compete so where does the revenue come from to get back to its rightful place? If they were serious about financial fair play there should be a tax on those who have already benefited which is then distributed to help the others. Anything less is not only maintaining the status quo, but making it worse. Valencia remains the concrete test of financial fair play. If Malaga becomes the challenger, it means that the only way to break the duoply is through financial unfair play and if not then financial unfair play has been rewarded for Barcelona and Madrid. How is this going to develop a competetitive league?
Financial fairplay can't work retroactively. Suppose that it did though, how long back should it go? 10 years?20 years? 30 years? The law as it is should always work forwardly. Valencia is in an unfortunate situation but they are certainly not the only club. And if the Financial Fair Play is to succed it won't do so by bailing out clubs who get into debt that they can't handle no more than bailing out banks leads to a healthier banking system. It is a matter of incentives. As far as I know the new rules do take into consideration the condition of the club before the law was enacted.

Malaga hasn't done anything wrong so far in my opinion so I don't see how what Malage does is unfair play. And also the last club to compete with Real Madrid and Barcelona was not Valencia or Malaga but Sevilla who went from a situation where they were the poor club compared to Betis to a position of big strength which they have since given up. Nonetheless this does prove that La Liga doesn't need Valencia per se. Others can and will step up as has been the case in the past. The original point of this discussion was whether or not Valencia was that needed to for La Liga to be competitive and I'm saying that they simply aren't based on history and nor is there any reason to believe that no other club will compete in the future.

On the competitiveness of the league, we have a different discussion. As Jaime has pointed out many times the Spanish league has always been dominated by Real Madrid and Barcelona with clubs of the time coming in occasionally to compete but seldomly for very long.
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:04 pm

messiah wrote:Seems the city of valencia will indeed be helping out valencia cf

http://www.stadiumguide.com/completion-of-nuevo-mestalla-another-step-closer/
That is part of the way that it could have been done. The other is that the banks' attitutde was fincancial suicide for them too. The only hope of paying it off was by being competetive. Selling their best players to rivals meant they were not competetitive and that cost in terms of media rights, ticket sales etc. Who wants to see them struggle for Champion's League places or even Europa? That means can't attract the best either. This was short-sighted idiocy from the banks. Fucking tossers!
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EMP

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:22 pm

Super Progress 2012 wrote:
EMP wrote:
Super Progress 2012 wrote:As Jaime has said historically Spain has done well with Real Madrid and Barcelona being the top dogs. Currently Malaga have the money and is climbing well so I don't think Valencia is particularly crucial anymore since Malaga has stepped up. If people want a more competitive league then it rests on Malage to make it exciting. Once Valencia gets their house in order they can come back and compete but I don't see that happening in the next 2-3 years and especially since Malaga will take the third place that was secure for Valencia previously.

You ignore the point which is that both Barcelona and Valencia built their houses on sand, but they were both bailed out of debt when it threatened to cave in, so they could shore up the foundations and build on it soundly for the success they now enjoy. Valencia was the only team to seriously threaten to break the stranglehold and if it had received the same financial support when it needed it then who knows what could have been achieved? They have lost some exceptionally good players,some to Barca and Real and even Malaga. How can they compete in a system that not only robs them of talent but strengthens rivals at their expense? The fact that Valencia is seen as a feeder club that will develop grea talent in some cases further, but then almost ineviatably lose that talent, including to rivals, Barca, Real Madrid and even Malaga says it all. What use is financial fair play when it punishes Valencia, but rewards Barcelona and Real when they did the same thing?

Valencia has little chance of getting its house in order in the foreseeable future. To pay for the stadium and the debt, it needs success. It can't get that without being able to compete so where does the revenue come from to get back to its rightful place? If they were serious about financial fair play there should be a tax on those who have already benefited which is then distributed to help the others. Anything less is not only maintaining the status quo, but making it worse. Valencia remains the concrete test of financial fair play. If Malaga becomes the challenger, it means that the only way to break the duoply is through financial unfair play and if not then financial unfair play has been rewarded for Barcelona and Madrid. How is this going to develop a competetitive league?
Financial fairplay can't work retroactively. Suppose that it did though, how long back should it go? 10 years?20 years? 30 years? The law as it is should always work forwardly. Valencia is in an unfortunate situation but they are certainly not the only club. And if the Financial Fair Play is to succed it won't do so by bailing out clubs who get into debt that they can't handle no more than bailing out banks leads to a healthier banking system. It is a matter of incentives. As far as I know the new rules do take into consideration the condition of the club before the law was enacted.

Malaga hasn't done anything wrong so far in my opinion so I don't see how what Malage does is unfair play. And also the last club to compete with Real Madrid and Barcelona was not Valencia or Malaga but Sevilla who went from a situation where they were the poor club compared to Betis to a position of big strength which they have since given up. Nonetheless this does prove that La Liga doesn't need Valencia per se. Others can and will step up as has been the case in the past. The original point of this discussion was whether or not Valencia was that needed to for La Liga to be competitive and I'm saying that they simply aren't based on history and nor is there any reason to believe that no other club will compete in the future.

On the competitiveness of the league, we have a different discussion. As Jaime has pointed out many times the Spanish league has always been dominated by Real Madrid and Barcelona with clubs of the time coming in occasionally to compete but seldomly for very long.

Who was the last team other than Barcelona or Real Madrid to win la Liga? In other words who actually broke the duopoly. Any more disgraceful conduct like this and the Curse of Valencia will be extended to fans!
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The Easter Bunny

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by The Easter Bunny on Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:54 pm

https://twitter.com/#!/search/Ca%C3%B1izares/slideshow/photos?url=https%3A%2F%2Fp.twimg.com%2FAxOAvpICEAI66FK.jpg

lol!
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messiah

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:46 pm

Malaga trying to sign JDS and Gio, they will corner the mexican market if they sign them both, mexicans are very loyal to their expats
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by King Modric on Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:34 am

messiah wrote:Malaga trying to sign JDS and Gio, they will corner the mexican market if they sign them both, mexicans are very loyal to their expats

If the Arabs can't be bothered to spend now when they're at the cusp of CL qualification, they likely never will.
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:28 pm

Is it true that the beckham law has been abolished and now players in spain will have to pay more than 50 % tAx??
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:04 am

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Is it true that the beckham law has been abolished and now players in spain will have to pay more than 50 % tAx??

52% to be exact. Part of it was repealed already a couple of years ago but now it has been extended to everyone. It's not retroactive so anyone who signed a contract before 2010 (i think) will be at the old tax rate but new contracts will be subject to the higher rate.
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by EMP on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:14 am

Jaime wrote:
Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Is it true that the beckham law has been abolished and now players in spain will have to pay more than 50 % tAx??

52% to be exact. Part of it was repealed already a couple of years ago but now it has been extended to everyone. It's not retroactive so anyone who signed a contract before 2010 (i think) will be at the old tax rate but new contracts will be subject to the higher rate.

Intersting. Does anyone know how Spain compares to other countries now? Is it still competitive and lucrative for top footballers?
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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:07 pm

Thanks Jaime

stinger

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by stinger on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:48 pm

What's going on - Malaga looking to offload Cazorla and Isco? Why? Or it's just a bad twitter rumour?
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:50 pm

EMP wrote:
Jaime wrote:
Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Is it true that the beckham law has been abolished and now players in spain will have to pay more than 50 % tAx??

52% to be exact. Part of it was repealed already a couple of years ago but now it has been extended to everyone. It's not retroactive so anyone who signed a contract before 2010 (i think) will be at the old tax rate but new contracts will be subject to the higher rate.

Intersting. Does anyone know how Spain compares to other countries now? Is it still competitive and lucrative for top footballers?

I don't think it will really make a big difference for Real Madrid and Barcelona. They will negotiate wages based on net pay I'm sure and they have the financial resources to be competitive with anyone. Malaga may well have the resources to compete as well, although it remains to be seen. The rumour is the sheikhs have to come up with 30m euro or something like that in unpaid transfer fee by the end of the month or Malaga could lose their UEFA license and be relegated. It will probably hurt the rest as I believe spain will now have the highest taxes of any of the major european leagues.
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:57 pm

stinger wrote:What's going on - Malaga looking to offload Cazorla and Isco? Why? Or it's just a bad twitter rumour?

See my last post stinger, there is a rumour that Malaga have to cough up some cash and fast or else. Not sure how much truth to it there is. There were rumours last summer that the sheikhs hadn't met the schedule of payments for Cazorla but in fact they had. The al-Thani family had come out denouncing what they were claiming were xenophobic journalists who were trying to stir up problems since they were foreigners. I guess we'll see how it will play out. I read one article from el confidencial saying that they sheikhs were considering bailing out of the Malaga project all together and in that case Malaga would probably have to sell more than just Cazorla and Isco to cover the alleged debts.

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by worms rises on Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:24 pm

That sucks man,if it weren't for Malaga Levente would have got CL football this year.
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by messiah on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:48 pm

if the malaga talks are really it would be so sad, especially after they went and fucked Villarreal by getting carzola and isco would have been a star at Valencia in the future
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:08 pm

Been a bit lazy recently with updates so here is the latest gossip!!!!!!

*Clearly Fernando Gago is not in Jose's plans at the minute. Apparently Boca want him back and he is inclined to go but Boca can't afford him. Trying to work out some kind of loan deal but I think Florentino only wants to sell him.

*Rayo have accepted a 2m euro bid from f*cking Swansea for Michu. A shame that they will lose him on such a small fee but unless he rejects the contract from the Welsh it looks like he is gone.

*On the positive side for Rayo it looks like they are going to get Jordi Amat on loan for a year. Last year they brought in Pulido who worked really well so hopefully Amat can do it as well.

*Apparently Galliani and Florentino are close to agreeing on a fee for Kaka (25m euro) but the big obstacle is that Kaka would have to take a big pay cut to return to Milan.

*Milan are rumoured to be interested in Lass as well. I would hate to send a player that sh!t to the club of Forza, Pirlo, Red 'n' Black, etc. but I really want to be done with this useless mercenary.

*Villarreal have rejected a 9m euro offer from Valencia for Bruno. I don't remember what Bruno's buyout clause is but I would have thought it would take an offer of 12-15m to take him. Still waiting to see what happens with Borja Valero as well.

*Deportivo have signed Peruvian centre back Alberto Rodriguez on a one year loan as they continue to import players from Sporting.

*Zaragoza have signed Argentine winger Lucas Wilchez on a one year loan from Colo Colo.

*Celta Vigo joining the David Lopez sweepstakes (if you can call it that). It looked like he was close to moving to Deportivo but now Celta are in the mix. Sounds like his wages are the principal obstacle for both sides.

*Espanyol are hoping to land Felipe Caicedo on loan. They've made an offer to Lokomotiv with an option to buy but the Russians want to sell him out right this summer to try and recover some of the 7,5m they paid to Levante last summer.

*Looks like Oliver Torres is going to get a look with the first team as Simeone has called him up for the preseason stage even though he's just finished with the U19 Euro.

*Mallorca have loaned Gianni Zuiverloon back to Heerenveen. Caparros hasn't been counting on him and is even using striker Nsue ahead of him as right back that's how sh!t he's been.

*Rondon is getting a lot of attention from the EPL. Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Tottenham all interested. Supposedly Tottenham made an offer in the range of 12-13m euro that was rejected. Although Malaga want Giovani Dos Santos (f*ck knows why) so maybe he will enter into the deal. Otherwise his buyout clause is 20m euro and it looks like Malaga are going to hold out for the full amount.

*Sevilla have lost out on Paraguayan right back Ivan Piris. Looked like things were done and dusted but in the end he's gone to Roma. Coke Andujar didn't really win the job last season so Sevilla are reportedly still in the market for a right back, been linked with Rod Fanni yesterday and today.

*Inter have supposedly inquired (again) about Nuri Sahin. The agent swears he will stay in Madrid but I'm not convinced. I can only hope a deal with Inter does not involve Maicon in any way.



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messiah

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by messiah on Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:21 pm

would like to see bruno stay at villarreal and come up back with them, but if he were to go to one team valencia would be good, he and benega would form a good double pivot system.

Valencia are steadily building a very good team, a pity alba left

----------------Alves

---Pereira----Ruiz---Rami---Mathieu

------------Bruno---Benega

-----Pablo------Canales-----Guardado

-----------------Soldado

Subs Piatti,Jonas,Chori,parejo,albelda,Viera,Guaita and the likes of paco,bernat they shouldn't be finishing 30 points behind the league winners


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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by worms rises on Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:30 pm

You forgot Tino Costa,brilliant player.
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Romford Pele on Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:09 pm

It's pretty much confirmed that Carlos Vela will be joining Sociedad for £3m but we'll be getting 50% of any future sell-on fee. Good deal ok
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:21 pm

unkhanscious wrote:You forgot Tino Costa,brilliant player.

So brilliant that Valencia have been trying to get rid of him all summer! cheers

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by worms rises on Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:05 pm

Better than Diarra.
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messiah

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by messiah on Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:14 am

valencia seems set to sign Siqueira
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:37 pm

unkhanscious wrote:Better than Diarra.

Not saying much is it?
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:47 pm

Nilmar has signed for Al Rayyan of Qatar. Had been linked with a move back to Brasil but in the end he's gone to the middle east. Haven't heard what the fee is.

So far Villarreal have sold Nilmar, Jefferson Montero, Mubarak Wakaso, Diego Lopez, Ivan Marcano, Marco Ruben, Gonzalo Castellini, and Jonathan De Guzman has left on loan.

Still managing to hold on to their core of best players, apart from Diego Lopez.
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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:43 pm

Given our situation, even if we get Dzeko we should make a bid for Rossi.

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by worms rises on Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:29 pm

Rossi is out for another 10 months.It's not certain he will play at top level again.
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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by Jaime on Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:12 pm

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:Given our situation, even if we get Dzeko we should make a bid for Rossi.

worms is right about Rossi, a shame but his injury situation will preclude anyone from buying him this summer. Depending on how things evolve, he might be available in January. Always thought he would be a good player for Milan though.
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messiah

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by messiah on Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:51 pm

Valencia see's Oriol Romeu as a back up if they failed to sign Gago or Soriano

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Re: Mercado de verano: La liga transfer thread - Summer 2012

Post by worms rises on Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:53 pm

I would like it if we sign Gago,I remember watching him in the Copa America and he played better than Banega tbh.Whether those two can play together though remains to be seen.

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