Messi

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Isco Benny

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Re: Messi

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:36 am

Més que un club wrote:This forum is kind of shit tbh,I put effort into making a new thread and just get called a Wum,go and fuck yourselves you boring mongs,posters like Fade Out and Sheffield Gunner don't provide any insightful comments at all,just trivial nonsense like "good goal" or "I didn't think it was a pen".They have no intellectual thoughts on the game at all.

Scum <Ale>

Laugh

Glenn's penis wrote:coming next week: Lampard vs Gerrard


and get your free CD

Laugh

This is awesome. Keep it up lads Ale


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Romford Pele

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Re: Messi

Post by Romford Pele on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:03 pm

Pirlo wrote:I don't think the level of football or the technical quality or brains of footballers today in general is anywhere near the level of the 90s/early 00s, so i agree with Blue, it's difficult and futile to make judgements across generations, but it is clear that Barcelona are the best around now.

But i think in a comparison of the numbers and levels of top defenders, goalkeepers, midfielders and forwards today and 10-25 years ago, there is very little comparison, and sadly the demise of the classic no.10 in favour of these horrid trident workaholic forwards has ruined it for me aesthetically, but that's just a personal value.

I disagree here completely. It depends what you define the level of football as. Players are more athletic these days so that makes it difficult for the better technical players to stand out. The fact that Barca can still do this icredit to them.

And i'm not even sure there's been a demise in the classic no.10. Players and managers are just more aware of the threat of these sorts of players, and the workhorse types can nullify the threats pretty easily.

With regards to the workaholic forwards, I'd like to know who you're talking about?
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Romford Pele

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Re: Messi

Post by Romford Pele on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:05 pm

Jaime wrote:I will indulge old worms even though this has been discussed in various threads before.

I think the big question is if you could drop Messi into a team that is decidedly mid-table, take Espanyol for example, would he turn them into league champions? Because this is what Maradona did and it's why I rate him as the greatest ever.

Of course we will never know because Messi will not make a move like that while he is in his prime, and maybe not ever. But I have my doubts because when he plays for Argentina (i.e. without Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alves, etc) he is not the same player.


This is interesting. I'm not sure Maradona in his prime would be able to handle the physical nature of today's game and the pace it is played at.

worms.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:54 pm

S4P wrote:
Més que un club wrote:Defenders like Zanetti,Lucio and especially Samuel made him look very ordinary as well.Cambiasso and Motta were both intelligent enough to know how to play against him,let him have the ball in deep positions but once he gets within 25 yards of ball get tight to him and either force him away from goal with 1 or 2 players or try and take the ball of him.

And hope that your keeper makes an incredible save when he does beat them.


Messi made 1 chance on goal for himself over 2 legs,other than that Inter had him in his pocket,even with 10 men as well.He has looked pretty average whenever he has played Italian opposition,Maradona thrived on playing against the best defensive teams and Messi has been dominated by two 36 year olds,Thiago Motta and Samuel.

As you can see in this video he was unable to create one chance for himself or another player all game,the best he could do was a shot from outside of the box(This was when he was in great form as well)What the video doesn't show as well is several more occasions were he lost the ball,one time at the edge of hiw own penalty area which led to Inters 3rd goal:



Here's a video of past his prime Nesta dealing with Messi pretty easily:



When Messi can play like this for a average team(compared to the current Barcelona team)and be a playmaker and goal scorer at the same time without being given the ball at the edge of the oppositions box all the time like he does for us then we can talk about him being better than Maradona.



I want to see him excel against the best defenses(South American and Italian),he is capable of it,he definitely has the potential I think he could bulk up a little more,maybe just half a stone.And I want to see more defense splitting passes when he's playing against these defenses,he is capable of Maradona like passes but is much less consistent at them.
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TITO

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Re: Messi

Post by TITO on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:43 pm

As much as i do not want to involve myself in the discussions in which you are the main protagonist, i can't help myself and i have to ask you the question:
When is the last time you have fucked something, anything?
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Romford Pele

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Re: Messi

Post by Romford Pele on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:48 pm

lol!
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Messi

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:25 pm

Comparing players from different generations may be fun, but it is useless.

Pelé was the best in his time, Maradona was the best in his time, Messi is the best in his time. I think that makes them equally important in football history. No need to decide who is the best ever, cause there isn't a best ever. Football changes. You're the best in football at a particular time. To be the best ever, you should come back to the past and play as the best in different conditions to prove it.


worms.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:38 pm

TITO wrote:As much as i do not want to involve myself in the discussions in which you are the main protagonist, i can't help myself and i have to ask you the question:
When is the last time you have fucked something, anything?

I fucked my right hand last night.

PS.I'm sorry if I offended you by questioning your Messiahs ablitys,hope you're not too butthurt <Ale>
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S4P

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Re: Messi

Post by S4P on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:33 pm

When you say you want him to excel, you mean that you want to see him score from open play? Because if you watch the 4 games versus Inter in the 09-10 season, you'll find quite a few examples of him getting past one of Zanetti, Lucio or Samuel before being snuffed out by Inter's pack of defenders.

Interestingly, Messi hasn't scored in 6 games against us, but I don't hear you saying that Terry and Cole have had him in their pockets.

worms.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:04 pm

S4P wrote:When you say you want him to excel, you mean that you want to see him score from open play? Because if you watch the 4 games versus Inter in the 09-10 season, you'll find quite a few examples of him getting past one of Zanetti, Lucio or Samuel before being snuffed out by Inter's pack of defenders.

Interestingly, Messi hasn't scored in 6 games against us, but I don't hear you saying that Terry and Cole have had him in their pockets.

It's not just that I want him to score,look at the OP I cba explaining again,watch the video I posted on this page of his match vs Inter,he created absolutely fuck all all game,for his teammates or for himself.For every time he took an Inter player on,he got tackled twice and when he did take someone on it was to no avail in the end because it came to nothing.
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Jaime

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Re: Messi

Post by Jaime on Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:52 pm

Romford Pele wrote:
Jaime wrote:I will indulge old worms even though this has been discussed in various threads before.

I think the big question is if you could drop Messi into a team that is decidedly mid-table, take Espanyol for example, would he turn them into league champions? Because this is what Maradona did and it's why I rate him as the greatest ever.

Of course we will never know because Messi will not make a move like that while he is in his prime, and maybe not ever. But I have my doubts because when he plays for Argentina (i.e. without Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alves, etc) he is not the same player.


This is interesting. I'm not sure Maradona in his prime would be able to handle the physical nature of today's game and the pace it is played at.

I think Maradona would handle the physical aspect of the game. Back in the 80s and 90s defenders were allowed to hack the attacking players down on a regular basis. Not like today where if someone breathes on Messi it is a foul. If Messi ever had to play in a game like Maradona faced against Cameroon in the 1990 WC his career would already be over.
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Super Progress

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Re: Messi

Post by Super Progress on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:34 pm

Jaime wrote:
Romford Pele wrote:
Jaime wrote:I will indulge old worms even though this has been discussed in various threads before.

I think the big question is if you could drop Messi into a team that is decidedly mid-table, take Espanyol for example, would he turn them into league champions? Because this is what Maradona did and it's why I rate him as the greatest ever.

Of course we will never know because Messi will not make a move like that while he is in his prime, and maybe not ever. But I have my doubts because when he plays for Argentina (i.e. without Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alves, etc) he is not the same player.


This is interesting. I'm not sure Maradona in his prime would be able to handle the physical nature of today's game and the pace it is played at.

I think Maradona would handle the physical aspect of the game. Back in the 80s and 90s defenders were allowed to hack the attacking players down on a regular basis. Not like today where if someone breathes on Messi it is a foul. If Messi ever had to play in a game like Maradona faced against Cameroon in the 1990 WC his career would already be over.
Well Maradona was a bit of a fighter. He is like Messi+Tevez in this sense. I think Tim Vickery made the point that football made the greatest advancement in athleticism from 80 to 90 and he strieved throughout.
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messiah

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Re: Messi

Post by messiah on Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:30 am

Just like to dispel this stuff about messi not being able to produce without xavi and iniesta

messi with xavi and iniesta in the field : (1.469 minutes) 17 goal (scores a goal in every 86,4 minutes with both of them)
messi with xavi , without iniesta : (1.174 minutes) 14 goal (scores a goal in every 83,8 minutes with only xavi)
messi with iniesta , without xavi : (611 minutes) 10 goal (scores a goal in every 61,1 minutes with only iniesta)
messi without both xavi and iniesta : (710 minutes) 14 goal (scores a goal in every 50,71 without both of them)

what he cannot produce without, is a functional team around him, like every other great footballer in the history of the sport.


stinger

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Re: Messi

Post by stinger on Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:37 am

messiah wrote:Just like to dispel this stuff about messi not being able to produce without xavi and iniesta

messi with xavi and iniesta in the field : (1.469 minutes) 17 goal (scores a goal in every 86,4 minutes with both of them)
messi with xavi , without iniesta : (1.174 minutes) 14 goal (scores a goal in every 83,8 minutes with only xavi)
messi with iniesta , without xavi : (611 minutes) 10 goal (scores a goal in every 61,1 minutes with only iniesta)
messi without both xavi and iniesta : (710 minutes) 14 goal (scores a goal in every 50,71 without both of them)

what he cannot produce without, is a functional team around him, like every other great footballer in the history of the sport.

I agree. I think Jaime who mentioned Espanyol before - personally I have no idea about how to compare them to old Napoli team (if we would exclude Maradona), but I guess Espanyol (which is a decent and well organized team with a good coach like Pochettino) with Messi would be a 3rd place team in current La Liga (If barca would have original Messi as well) and would be able to make a decent run in Champions League as well drilled counter attacking team. Messi would f'n love space offered to him by playing for team like Espanyol.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:57 pm

Bump!

He lost the ball for Chelseas goal as well,like he did against Inter 2 years ago,the goal that led to Inters crucial 3rd goal.I've said it and I will say it again,he needs to bulk up a bit.
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fcb

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Re: Messi

Post by fcb on Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:58 pm

Doh

Here we go again Laughing
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Cristiano

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Re: Messi

Post by Cristiano on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:08 pm

This thread is so opportunistic Doh

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:14 pm

Cristiano wrote:This thread is so opportunistic Doh

But am I wrong?
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Hlebagone

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Re: Messi

Post by Hlebagone on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:26 pm

He needs to bulk up. So he'll become less agile and lose the best aspect of his game.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:39 pm

Hlebagone wrote:He needs to bulk up. So he'll become less agile and lose the best aspect of his game.

He's less agile than he was 2 years ago but he's a better player.
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Hlebagone

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Re: Messi

Post by Hlebagone on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:41 pm

Because he bulked up?

worms.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:02 pm

Hlebagone wrote:Because he bulked up?

He's a better player now because he's 2 years older.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Messi

Post by christmasborocooper on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:30 am

It worked for Gazza.
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The Easter Bunny

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Re: Messi

Post by The Easter Bunny on Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:02 am

Could Messi do it on a cold,wet and windy day while being marked by Shaun Derry?

worms.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:40 pm

Learn how to take penalty's ffs.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:48 pm

No way is he the best player ever,against Italian team,South American international teams and Chelsea he looks average,at least by his standards he does.
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Jaime

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Re: Messi

Post by Jaime on Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:50 pm

Whoop

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:01 pm

Messi has missed 8 of 20 penalties that he has taken for Barcelona.
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Isco Benny

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Re: Messi

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:06 pm

If only barca had Ibrahimovic upfront tonight Sad

worms.

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Re: Messi

Post by worms. on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:22 pm

Disco Benny wrote:If only barca had Ibrahimovic upfront tonight Sad

Better than Keita.

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