The Next England Squad

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COTR

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by COTR on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:08 am

Very Happy

10 hours of that shit
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christmasborocooper

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by christmasborocooper on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:13 am

Brian..you are going to have to get a better picture to prove Cahill wasnt offside..cos by the time the ball had started moving towards him from the pass, he did drop about 4 yards deeper than when it was originally played. He did look very much offside in all the replays.

Brian2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian2468 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:07 am

christmasborocooper wrote:Brian..you are going to have to get a better picture to prove Cahill wasnt offside..cos by the time the ball had started moving towards him from the pass, he did drop about 4 yards deeper than when it was originally played. He did look very much offside in all the replays.

You are right......BUT look at the video and the opposite directions of the two players movement at the same time then check Baines pass over and over it is real close.

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The Prfessr

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by The Prfessr on Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:18 am

This Parker love in/hype is really getting ridiculous Laughing

But when u see Carrick(who's been the best English CM in the PL this season and generally the better player) not even making the SQUAD then u understand why

Pundits, fans etc love blood and thunder midfielders

worms.

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by worms. on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:39 am

Christmas Glenn Hysn wrote:
PuroReturns wrote:

It was one of the nastiest head clashes I've ever seen.

you could hear it from 200 yards away, the sound alone gave me a sympathy headache. I was half expecting to see Smalling's head in the back of the net and the ball jammed in his gaping neck pipe.

Why where you sitting 200 yards away from your T.V? scratch

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by worms. on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:47 am

Fey wrote:
Champions of England 2012 wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:

Spoiler:
[auto-on][auto-on]

Ok Fey I give up wheres the auto on tab?

I was trolling you, you really think youtube puts up that option?

Laughing

Much to learn you have, young troll

Anyway, I will show you how to do it in the spoiler

Spoiler:



NO I WONT Biggrin

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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:43 am

The Professor wrote:This Parker love in/hype is really getting ridiculous Laughing

But when u see Carrick(who's been the best English CM in the PL this season and generally the better player) not even making the SQUAD then u understand why

Pundits, fans etc love blood and thunder midfielders

I don't personally give an iota about what the media think. What I think is that Parker is more than just a blood and thunder midfielder. I see them as penny to the dozen, the Karl Henry or lee cattermole type. Do you seriously believe Parker is this kind of player? He's disciplined and careful in possession. So he had a bad game against arsenal and got sent off. It can happen when defensively the team is so exposed. Just because the media like him shouldn't skew the fact that for England its important to have a pressing presence in midfield. Carrick is the better passer but you can't play him with Barry itd be suicide given neither are mobile or play a pressing game.

The options should be one of Parker or Milner with wilshere, Barry or Carrick IMO.if playing with 2 CM s. 3 and its a game of pic n mix but in my opinion Parker is crucial. England have looked far better balanced when he plays since he came in in comparison with the last few years.I'd like someone to argue otherwise, back in the days of Gerrard/lampposts with Barry chucked in, getting overrun in the world cup.
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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:59 am

I'd go for Carrick-Cleverley-Wilshere personally.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by christmasborocooper on Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:01 am

So we'd just not bother with defending in midfield?
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Fade out

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:04 am

Have you seen United play with Cleverley-Carrick-Giggs this season?

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:01 am

Fade out wrote:Have you seen United play with Cleverley-Carrick-Giggs this season?

Not sure if that combination has played many if any games this season?
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:06 am

Fade out wrote:Have you seen United play with Cleverley-Carrick-Giggs this season?

Take out Cleverly and that is virtually the midfield that was overrun in the CL, by the mighty Basel in particular.... Laughing

If the England Manager followed the Euro board's awesome "logic", I imagine him -whoever he is- leaving a voicemail like this:

BEEEEP "Hey Scott, you've played consistently well at club level and now for England and clearly given balance the midfield. But it makes complete sense to drop you because the media loves you a little too much for the purists liking. They make comparisons with players like Roy Keane and it annoy me. And is definitely your fault for doing all that running around stuff and being an attention seeking little c**t with your flash black boots and your ridiculously fashionable haircut. So just letting you know I'm bringing back Carrick because he's currently underrated and the media don't talk as much about him as they do you. Forget his recent CL and International performances. It's also important I show I'm not biased towards London clubs, so pack your bags" .....

Regarding Carrick: not a bad player. Hell, give him time on the ball and he can pick out a decent pass. But he's had plenty of opportunities for England now and looked out of his depth.

In comparison, Parker has made the step up to international football far better than Carrick ( Even Barry has been better at international level than Carrick)

The England central midfield looks better balanced than it has done in a long time with Parker in there. That is indisputable.

I could see an argument for mixing up a Wilshere/Cleverly/Carrick , Parker/Barry/Milner partnership or threesome, but this odd "Euroboard bubble" situation calling for the dropping of Parker makes absolutely no sense based on what we've seen in recent England games.

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Glenarch of the Glen on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:22 am

whenever Carrick has played for England he's looked like a poor mans Jordan Henderson.

I was wondering how long the Scott Parker backlash would take. He finally received the credit he deserves and immediately he becomes an overrated PGD lionheart with a slightly oversized head.

I may very well be a handsome lunatic, but there are worse qualities for a defensive midfielder, and he isn't that bad at football.

He should never be the focal point of the team, the playmaker, outball or Plan A. It seemed to me last night that he was seeing too much of the ball because he was on the pitch with Gareth Barry, James Milner and Stuart Downing. Give him Wilshere or Cleverley, Lennon or Wallchart, Rooney etc and we'll get more efficient use of him.

even Andy Townsend said it
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Fade out

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:43 am

Carrick is so shit he has 57 appearances in CL & reached two finals.

Parker OTOH - World class!

And great displays like this:

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S4P

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by S4P on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:49 am

Peter Crouch has played in a Champions League final, has 42 caps and has made 2 World Cup finals. Would you currently pick him over Wellbeck and Sturridge?
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Fade out

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:54 am

No, because he isn't a regular for a side currently competing for PL crown. lol!

Parker's back to back displays at Emirates & Wembley is evidence enough that he couldn't cut it at highest level.
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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:05 pm

What "evidence" last night?

Who is saying he played poorly yesterday? You? Worms? Two people who weren't even watching the game in it's entirety last night? Two of the boards most illustrious WUM's?

A 10 second clip of him falling over? Enough to convince any jury I'm sure....

And the Carrick argument is quite brilliant. We can confirm that Cabaye and Tiote are also far inferior because they've failed to play regularly in the CL.. Laughing


Last edited by Metta World Peace on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fade out

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:08 pm

By normal English standards, he had a 'good game'.

Wrong example. I'd be mad if Ben Arfa made it ahead of Ribery in to our side. Just as Ivory coast fan would be livid if Tiote made it ahead of Toure in to national team.
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S4P

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by S4P on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:10 pm

Fade out wrote:No, because he isn't a regular for a side currently competing for PL crown. lol!

Parker's back to back displays at Emirates & Wembley is evidence enough that he couldn't cut it at highest level.

So you have to be a regular for Manchester United, Manchester City or (dare I say it) Tottenham to warrant being considered for national selection?

And many of Carrick's 20+ caps, 50+ CL appearances and Champions League finals were evidence that he couldn't cut it at the highest level.


Last edited by S4P on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:11 pm

Fade out wrote:By normal English standards, he had a 'good game'.

And in a single sentence, proves why you've become a rather pointless and boring WUM. Congratulations on yet another inciteful and stirring contribution Ale
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Fade out

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:14 pm

Metta World Peace wrote:
Fade out wrote:By normal English standards, he had a 'good game'.

And in a single sentence, proves why you've become a rather pointless and boring WUM. Congratulations on yet another inciteful and stirring contribution Ale

Right. So show me one good publication which rated his performance properly without being ridden by standard tropes you associate with British lionhearted DM!

L'Equipe rating vs Germany:
Lloris 7, Debuchy 8, Rami 6, Mexes 6, Abidal 5; Cabaye 6, M'Vila 4; Valbuena 7, Nasri 5, Ribery 4; Giroud 8.

M'Vila on 4 would be 9/10 in British papers, had he played for England.
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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:16 pm

I'd extend what Blut mentioned about 'art of defending' the other day. I'd attribute all the unchecked adulation reserved for Parker exponentially proportionate to the number of times he hits the ground..
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S4P

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by S4P on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:17 pm

Fade out wrote:
Metta World Peace wrote:
Fade out wrote:By normal English standards, he had a 'good game'.

And in a single sentence, proves why you've become a rather pointless and boring WUM. Congratulations on yet another inciteful and stirring contribution

Right. So show me one good publication which rated his performance properly without being ridden by standard tropes you associate with British lionhearted DM!

L'Equipe rating vs Germany:
Lloris 7, Debuchy 8, Rami 6, Mexes 6, Abidal 5; Cabaye 6, M'Vila 4; Valbuena 7, Nasri 5, Ribery 4; Giroud 8.

M'Vila on 4 would be 9/10 in British papers, had he played for England.

From The Sun - one of the most biased British newspapers:

Hart 6, Richards 6, Cahill 6, Smalling 6, Baines 6, Barry 6, Parker 6, Gerrard 4, Johnson 6, Welbeck 5, Young 5

Sturridge 6, Milner 5, Downing 5, Jones 6

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4163342/England-2-3-Holland-England-v-Holland-player-ratings.html
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Fade out

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fade out on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:19 pm

6/10 for Parker??? lol!

The way that midfield let Robben run & score that terrible 'solo' (truly solo that not a single English midfielder, particularly defensive minded, cared to challenge him) goal would be 3/10 for all (if generous).
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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by debaser on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:20 pm

Fade out wrote:Have you seen United play with Cleverley-Carrick-Giggs this season?

No. Have you? No. Because it has never happened. Seriously. Cleverley's played first four league matches of the season - and Carrick didn't appear in the league at all til he replaced Cleverley when he went off injured, while Giggs was used sparingly early in season. Since then Cleverley made 1 league appearance, against Everton, when he got injured again and Giggs/Carrick weren't playing. He's also played a handful of cup matches, none of which featured Giggs and few Carrick (I just looked this up, I don't know these things off hand, I just enjoy proving people wrong Wink )
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:30 pm

Fade out wrote:
Metta World Peace wrote:
Fade out wrote:By normal English standards, he had a 'good game'.

And in a single sentence, proves why you've become a rather pointless and boring WUM. Congratulations on yet another inciteful and stirring contribution Ale

Right. So show me one good publication which rated his performance properly without being ridden by standard tropes you associate with British lionhearted DM!

L'Equipe rating vs Germany:
Lloris 7, Debuchy 8, Rami 6, Mexes 6, Abidal 5; Cabaye 6, M'Vila 4; Valbuena 7, Nasri 5, Ribery 4; Giroud 8.

M'Vila on 4 would be 9/10 in British papers, had he played for England.

Weirdly, I bothered to watch the game and formulate my own opinion. And having spoken to other people who watch same game, the general consensus is that Parker played pretty well. Certainly was not shown up or looking out of place at international level.

As I've said hundreds of times, I don't care what the papers say about him, or indeed player X or Y. I'm basing it on what I'm seeing day in day out.

It's become glaringly obvious that the people on here who indignantly crowing about the British Media influencing the public's opinions are the ones who are allowing their own opinions to become affected

For example, it's clear you dislike Parker MORE (and/or rate him LESS) than you would normally as a result of how he's portrayed in the media.

Perhaps if one took a second to realise the quaint irony of this...Wink

Incidentally, in answer to your question about "reputable" publications: how does the Guardian and an 8/10 sit with you: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/29/england-holland-player-ratings *sits back and awaits the confirmation that the Guardian isn't a viably reputable source...* Laughing

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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:44 pm

Have we decided yet if The Guardian is a reputable publication yet?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/29/scott-parker-england-captain?intcmp=239

Here's a nice passage which I think best sums up the Parker debate nicely:

On his lack of silverware:

The 31-year-old defensive midfielder is hardly one for the long term, but even in defeat against Holland he showed that for now he is England's best option as a leader on the pitch.

If the interim manager had been hoping to give the job to a player intimately acquainted with the business of winning trophies, then Parker would not have been his first choice. Thus far in a professional career now in its 15th year, he has won the second-tier title with Charlton Athletic in 1999-2000 and the utterly pointless Intertoto Cup with Newcastle United in 2006. Luckily, as Fabio Capello was slow to recognise, his individual qualities transcend the absence of trophies in his cabinet.

On last night's performance:

Until Arjen Robben and Klaas-Jan Huntelaar stripped the English defence bare twice in two minutes as the hour mark approached, Parker had given a good account of himself as a leader by example. He started promisingly, as though unburdened by the cares of office. With his first real touch, in the third minute, he showed why he is such a welcome inclusion in a role that has troubled England since Owen Hargreaves' career crumbled after the 2006 World Cup.

Robin van Persie had found a gap in the England defence and was making ground towards the edge of the England penalty area when the new captain, hardly noted for his pace, suddenly overtook him and stole the ball with a deft flick of his boot.

Ten minutes later, having retreated into the back line as Holland pressed, he responded when Robben squared the ball to the unmarked Wesley Sneijder by sprinting out of defence to make a challenge that prevented the Internazionale midfielder from unleashing a shot. His third important intervention came midway through the first period, when Van Persie dribbled across the area and was starting to think about shaping to shoot when Parker arrived from nowhere with a perfectly timed tackle. His neatness in possession was also noticeable. He makes simple passes and does not give the ball away, thus avoiding the besetting sin of so many of his England predecessors in a deceptively demanding role.

Since the first 45 minutes had passed without great alarms, the arrival of James Milner to replace Gareth Barry as Parker's partner in the defensive shield may contributed to the sudden and spectacular collapse to a two-goal deficit. Seemingly inspired by the arrival of Huntelaar in place of Van Persie, Holland moved up a gear and dismayed England with two moments of applied menace that would not have disgraced the side which won at Wembley almost 40 years ago under the leadership of Johan Cruyff.

On his England "future":

A handful of unusual statistics sum up Parker's career as a senior international. Having made his debut in 2003, he made no appearances at all in 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. His first four caps were earned when he was playing for four different clubs, and his 11 caps have been awarded by four different managers. After such a choppy introduction, he deserves the chance to show what he can do when given the benefit of a little consistency.

The last time an England caretaker manager took a chance on a new captain, Taylor launched David Beckham on a long and not entirely undistinguished relationship with the armband. Beckham was 25 at the time, whereas Parker is at an age that cannot offer the prospect of such longevity. But he is emerging at an interesting time, when young players are coming into the squad in such significant numbers that experienced leadership will become a valuable commodity. A defeat is a defeat, but not all the signs were devoid of hope


So in short, he's not Superman or even the new Bryan Robson, but currently it makes complete rational sense to stick with him, as both captain and within the midfield.

Amen, and no more talking about Scott Parker from me. Even Andy Townsend said it

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:48 pm

debaser wrote:
Fade out wrote:Have you seen United play with Cleverley-Carrick-Giggs this season?

No. Have you? No. Because it has never happened. Seriously. Cleverley's played first four league matches of the season - and Carrick didn't appear in the league at all til he replaced Cleverley when he went off injured, while Giggs was used sparingly early in season. Since then Cleverley made 1 league appearance, against Everton, when he got injured again and Giggs/Carrick weren't playing. He's also played a handful of cup matches, none of which featured Giggs and few Carrick (I just looked this up, I don't know these things off hand, I just enjoy proving people wrong Wink )

Ale

I had a pretty strong feeling, but am far too lazy to actually check.
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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 pm

Mancini bemoans City letting go of Sturridge:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/sturridge-should-never-have-left-us-says-mancini-6275422.html

Roberto Mancini, Manchester City's manager, says he cannot understand why the club allowed Daniel Sturridge to join their rivals Chelsea, and he is worried that City will pay when the teams meet in a vital Premier League game at Stamford Bridge tomorrow night. The England forward was allowed to leave two years ago, while Mark Hughes was City's manager, after he demanded wages reported to be 55,000 a week. A tribunal fixed the transfer fee at3.5 million, which has subsequently risen to 6.5m, including 1m when he won a first full cap last month.

After scoring eight goals in 12 games for Bolton on loan last season, Sturridge has been in outstanding form and displaced Nicolas Anelka, who will be allowed to leave in January.

Mancini said: "I asked him last year, 'Why did you leave Manchester City?' and he said he doesn't know. It was strange, because someone let him out of the club. For sure he was one of the best young players that was here. Sometimes it's difficult with a young player,but it was not difficult to see if Sturridge was a good player. If he was here today he'd be in the first team."

Chelsea go into the game 10 points behind City but their manager, Andre Villas-Boas, has said they will still be in contention for the title if they win.

Yesterday, second-placed Manchester United reduced City's lead to two points by beating Wolverhampton Wanderers 4-1, with two goals each from Wayne Rooney and Nani. Third-placed Tottenham, five points behind United, travel to Stoke today.

What's the consensus on Sturridge last night? I thought he looked impressive for the relatively short time he was on. Seems to have that bit of creativity and quickness of feet that we lack in the final third .


Shame about the so called "miss", but having seen it again the ball travelled at pace at him unsighted from a Baines mishit shot, his body was already off balance. It wasn't like he was taking a pass. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to a player who has scored more goals this season than all of Chelsea's other strikers combined Ale
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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by christmasborocooper on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:20 pm

debaser wrote:
Fade out wrote:Have you seen United play with Cleverley-Carrick-Giggs this season?

No. Have you? No. Because it has never happened. Seriously. Cleverley's played first four league matches of the season - and Carrick didn't appear in the league at all til he replaced Cleverley when he went off injured, while Giggs was used sparingly early in season. Since then Cleverley made 1 league appearance, against Everton, when he got injured again and Giggs/Carrick weren't playing. He's also played a handful of cup matches, none of which featured Giggs and few Carrick (I just looked this up, I don't know these things off hand, I just enjoy proving people wrong Wink )

lol!

Wow, Fade Out made to look like an absolutely clueless c**t here.


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