Oranje Thread

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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:14 am

Hmm... I'm not sure if conservatism is what Holland need now. Sure, Robben still has another tournament left in him at least, but the other big names, particularly Sneijder, seem to be over the hill now. The young players gained valuable experience, the transition should continue, otherwise there is a danger of going backwards.
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:16 pm

Midget should have been dropped 4 years ago. But sometimes I think you are forgetting that Nord Rhein Westfallus is already bigger then Holland.

Holland just cant replace world class players with new world class players. Usually when there was a generation gap, Holland didnt qualify. Now they reach the semi-final.

Nontheless it should be Koeman who got the job. Very dirty behaviour of the Dutch FA.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:37 pm

Of course it's more difficult for a small(er) country like Holland, but your academies are still very productive. There is a danger of missing the right time for the transition.
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Actually there lies the problem in 2000 Germany launched a new plan, Holland did as well, but to create more winners. Rather then using U-...squads for one or two big talents to become good enough for the seniors the Schwerpunkt went to becoming a team at early age. Thus killing the creativity. Hence Holland won a gazillion trophies the last decade with those U-..squads.

Now there is big shout to return to pre-2000. To create footballers again rather then athletes.

The guy who implemented the masterplan? van Gaal...

Also, in Holland there is just one academy these days...in Germany all of them are producing, well almost all of them. 

If Feyenoord didnt went bankrupt almost, Holland wouldnt have been here.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:47 pm

What did Van Gaal implement? The plan to have "winners" or the new one to put more emphasis on creativity and skill?
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:52 pm

A plan to have winners, a plan where players get coached to death, where creativity gets killed at a very early age.

He nicked it from the French..back in 2000 France was great, if only van Gaal realised what they would do after it..
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:58 pm

I see. Ok, in hindsight it's easy to say that it was the wrong approach back then. Remember that a player like Guardiola had difficulties to find a club back in those days of muscle and power, for example.

In Germany, we went to the other extreme for a while, but learned in recent years that winning mentality and mental strength are important traits we should conserve, and not give up for the sake of being "modern". And we had a hundred creative midfielders but no strikers or fullbacks anymore, you get my point. So in recent years, a right balance seems to have been found. But you always have to look for the right balance, try to coordinate youth development and react, if necessary. That's even more important for a smaller country like Holland.

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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:21 am

Makes sense Blut, lets wait what the future brings.

Anyway, RVP cant be a captain anymore after what happened last night. Clearly something went wrong between him vs Robben and Midget. He openly attacked van Hooijdonck in the post-match interview. Now things went sour between them since HSWHW nicked that freekick from Pi-air in that game against RKC I believe. But he went too far, that was even worse then Per's rant. Blaming Dutch tv that they shouldnt give Pi-air give a podium to give critics on him being a jls conte about Robben being the more important man, and that he should focus on the golf Laughing

Also, Dutch did well in SA again! 14 matches, just one lose against Scotland within 90 min, try to avoid Scotland and Argentina in the future when Holland are in South America again.
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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Pras_tama on Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:15 am

Fey and co, what happens to the like of Van Der Wiel, Willems, Maher, Narsingh, Castaignos? Aren't they good enough anymore? How will the team for Euro 2016 look like?
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:10 pm

VDW=Injured
Willems= Too shit
Maher= Too Muslim
Narsingh= Injured
Castaignos=Too shit

2016 will be the same as the current, with Strootman slotted in somewhere, most likely for Clasiesta, knowing Dutch coaches Sad
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:06 am

Is it true that even Willem van Hanegem praised this Germany side? If yes, it's truly brilliant and shows a lot of class, considering the history of his family. Hats off. Ale
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:26 pm

Yes and no, he wanted Argentina to win I believe but did think it was really deserverd. Same with Boskamp(WC player of 1978 whoms house got flattened by the Germans..he really dislikes them) 

Anyway, I believe your dutch is good enough to read van Hanagems column yourself.

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/5598/Sportcolumnisten/article/detail/3688903/2014/07/14/Duitsers-hebben-de-titel-echt-verdiend.dhtml

Must say many people supporting Germany as well, I like the football, but too join in the celebrations is a bit too far, I mean, last night my father, who lives in Germany, texted me a picture and a video of him and his other german friends going beserk. It's a good man, but that went too far for me and felt a bit sick in the mouth.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:57 pm

Your father knows what's good! Laugh Ale Join in Fey, it'll do you good!

I live close to the Dutch border and was quite amazed how many Dutchies seem to support the German national team, particularly close to the border where the rivalry used to be the strongest. I don't know what would have happened if both teams met in the final, but I do know that many Germans were supporting you vs. Argentina, too, and prefered an all European final to a Europe vs. South America one, even if they believed your team to be a more difficult opponent (dunno about that, you play less cynical).

I think that Robben has done a lot for Dutch football's image in Germany. He's generally one of the most liked players in the country, truly admired by many, not just Bayern fans. Sure, many don't like him for his theatralics, too, but that's inevitable. People respect how he fought himself out of that hole of 2012, when he choked so terribly, and totally redeemed himself a year after. That was impressive.
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debaser

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by debaser on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:29 pm

most people in England were supporting Germany too. well, certainly in the pub I was in for the 1st half.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:41 pm

That's rather surprising to be honest. But it likely had a lot to do with our opponent in the final, Argentina is not exactly well liked in England either. If Holland had been our opponent, I think that few would have still supported us.
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debaser

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by debaser on Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:54 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:That's rather surprising to be honest. But it likely had a lot to do with our opponent in the final, Argentina is not exactly well liked in England either. If Holland had been our opponent, I think that few would have still supported us.

yeah that's part of it. Holland would've got a lot more support than Argentina for sure. but definitely there's significantly less hostility to Germany compared to say 10/20 years ago.
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Hlebagone

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Hlebagone on Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:50 pm

debaser wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:That's rather surprising to be honest. But it likely had a lot to do with our opponent in the final, Argentina is not exactly well liked in England either. If Holland had been our opponent, I think that few would have still supported us.

yeah that's part of it. Holland would've got a lot more support than Argentina for sure. but definitely there's significantly less hostility to Germany compared to say 10/20 years ago.

Even from 06. People like the new breed of footballers.

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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:05 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:Your father knows what's good! Laugh Ale Join in Fey, it'll do you good!

I live close to the Dutch border and was quite amazed how many Dutchies seem to support the German national team, particularly close to the border where the rivalry used to be the strongest. I don't know what would have happened if both teams met in the final, but I do know that many Germans were supporting you vs. Argentina, too, and prefered an all European final to a Europe vs. South America one, even if they believed your team to be a more difficult opponent (dunno about that, you play less cynical).

I think that Robben has done a lot for Dutch football's image in Germany. He's generally one of the most liked players in the country, truly admired by many, not just Bayern fans. Sure, many don't like him for his theatralics, too, but that's inevitable. People respect how he fought himself out of that hole of 2012, when he choked so terribly, and totally redeemed himself a year after. That was impressive.

Hmm...I always thought they were more German friendly considering the "true" Holland looks down on them as reserve Krauts/Belgians..nontheless the opinion on German football started to change in 2006 me thinks. Other factors like, no more big games, WW2 generation dying, van Gaal in Munich, No more Kahns, Jeremies Lothars etc, PIGS in Europe etc didnt really help the rivalry either. Two close potential world cup final in a row though. Sooner or later it will hapen again. Making sure that such posts:

KNVBGeverifieerd account@KNVB
@DFB_Team herzlichen Glückwunsch zum Gewinn der Weltmeisterschaft. Cheers!

A thing of the past!

Dutch football has always had a good image in Germany I believe, I remember here it was said Germany only produced two good footballers, Overrath and Netzer. As for Robben, I never liked him I remember him at the beginning of his carreer on his bicycle and thought he looked like a dork...good thing is, it got uploaded again



 Laughing

Always injured(THough not as much anymore) dives and has one trademark move(really deadly one though) and refuses to play to a teamplayer.

As for the England/Holland vs Germany hate. I think it always was different, you could taste the hate the Enlgish have/had for the Germans, considering them as some sort of other race or something. In Holland it was more of a banter thing only with football.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:45 pm

Usually, they love to rub it in when Holland wins, coming over with their Holland flags, honking like mad. But that seems to have cooled down a little. In the cities and towns close to the border, I saw way more Netherlands and Oranje Flags than in Amsterdam during WC 2010.

Let's say that Germans have always been way more fair in their assessment of Dutch players and teams than vice versa. There has always been a high degree of admiration for many Dutch players, despite the rivalry, while the Dutch were more busy with spreading propaganda. Besides, it was Beckenbauer who was the most skillful German player ever, not Netzer, Overath, Rummenigge, Littbarski or Schuster to name a few. Without a doubt the most complete player in history, unique and totally misunderstood by the English, who refer to him as a defender without truly understanding what his libero position really was.

But that's the Tommies for you, eh! And yes, there is very special hatred towards Germany in certain parts of English society that is quite different to the Dutch and not necessarily football related. But even in England this has cooled down quite a bit, as others have said.

As far as Robben is concerned, the whole reason why he is admired is that he worked hard on his game and became a much better team player under Heynckes, tracking back like a rabid dog and playing for the team instead of himself. That was impressive, as was his fight to overcome that horrible year 2012. Oranje clearly benefitted from this "new" Robben, too. That "selfish one dimensional player" tag is a thing of the past.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:59 pm

P.S.: Robben's nickname at Bayern used to be "Sergej Alleinikov" because of his selfishness, but now nobody calls him that. If there is one thing German fans truly hate, it's selfishness.
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:26 pm

Thats because in Amsterdam hardly any person who lives there is Dutch Very Happy

Robben remains a twat, just read that in 2010 he told the reserve keeper to get from massage table, cause he was more important! He acts like a diva but he remains so dorky.

Anyway, the ratings of Holland according to BR. Not as good as my ratings mind!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2128742-grading-every-dutch-player-at-the-2014-world-cup/page/4
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abundance

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by abundance on Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:44 pm

Fey did you catch this?
Now you even got a lil' r'n'b jingle for your beloved HSWHWSWsSSWW or how the hell you initialize him. =D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/embed/video/1105633.html
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:06 pm

Haha, that is awesome.

Incredible Spurs fans use it for BAE. That pussycat uses it for HSWHW. Says it all.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:46 pm

So Hiddink took over the team now and Van Nistelrooy is going to be his assistant. Any thoughts on this? Is RVN a good choice?
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Fey

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:05 pm

An assistant does fuck all, so why not give it to him. Doubt he will be better or worse then Kluivert.

Hiddink, meh. Would have picked Koeman, then again im not in charge.

We go from 6 Dutch internationals to just 1 it seems. We need to build a new batch!
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blutgraetsche

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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:16 pm

Depends though. Nobody may know Hansi Flick, Löw's assistant and future DFB sporting director, but in this WC, he finally managed to convince Löw to train some set pieces, for example, something Löw had neglected in every tournament prior to this. It paid off richly.

I don't know what RVN's ambitions are, though. Does he want to become a manager? Has he done some UEFA courses already?

Re Hiddink: I'm no fan of going back to former managers. Most of the time, it doesn't work. Holland should have tried someone young who could slowly start the transition to the next generation. Van Gaal has done quite a bit of work in this regard already.
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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:57 pm

Line-up for tonight against Italy: Cillessen; Janmaat, De Vrij, Martins Indi, Blind; Wijnaldum, De Jong, Sneijder; Kuyt, Van Persie, Lens
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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by debaser on Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:56 pm

Kuyt is still going to be playing for Holland long after we are all dead.
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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:00 pm

Holland 2-0 down and a man down after a harsh pen..well this match is death.

Kuyt, I dont get that either. He is 58 next euros.

Holland miss Clasie so much.
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Re: Oranje Thread

Post by Fey on Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:39 pm

Holland 1-0 down in Cechland. To have so many groups and still get Czech in your group. Though they arent what they were a few years ago. Holland look very bad, Hiddink is clueless, doesnt know what formation to play. At least he knows Veltman is shite. he got subbed.

Holland miss Clasie, Vlaar and Robben.

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