Future of DLP?

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Fade out

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Future of DLP?

Post by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:00 am

In stead of unimaginative comparisons across different generations. How about we list players who we think is capable of being in level of Redondo, Pirlo and Xavi.

Obviously Cabaye/Modric debate hasn't produced any imaginative discussion, for which I'm equally guilty. I'm not going to do that again.

But I'd like to make a distinction now, I'd actually think of Cabaye/Modric to be more box-to-box players with good all-round play than being adept at the nuances of Xavi and Pirlo. In that respect, they'd be in same category as Schweini, but at a lesser level.

I'd also argue this 'niche' role to be a consequence of complex football dynamics of Italy and Spain, rich and nuanced than Germany. France way behind all three.

That is not to say that other cultures does't produce DLPs. I'd argue it to be a factor of genetics too. While not many of German descent seem to be hardwired for this, likes of Sahin (and now Gundogan) have shown best potential.

Do you really see this role being progressive for football? Does it really produce exciting scope of football, is it limiting a more 'open' football as the opposition are completely suffocated of possession?

I know there are talents who are up and coming like Verratti, Wilshere, Lucas and Thiago already earmarked to be future for this role. But I have very man doubts of Wilshere making it, more a genetic & cultural failure.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by christmasborocooper on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:09 am

Well..we did have Carrick who was meant to be destined for that role at one point..and Huddlestone. Neither of them will ever be great at it though..and it doesn't look like either of them have much in the way of an England future now. Carrick because he doesnt want to be on the bench..and Hudd as he just doesn't seem to play consistantly anyway.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Kroos on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:20 am

Kroos will set the benchmark

you heard it here first Very Happy
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Isco Benny on Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:40 am

christmasborocooper wrote:Well..we did have Carrick who was meant to be destined for that role at one point..and Huddlestone. Neither of them will ever be great at it though..and it doesn't look like either of them have much in the way of an England future now. Carrick because he doesnt want to be on the bench..and Hudd as he just doesn't seem to play consistantly anyway.

The Hudd has been long time injured. I imagine with Modric off next season we'll see much more of him.

He doesn't have the mobility to ever match Xavi/Pirlo/Modric etc. But he's certainly a top class passer of the ball (particularly over long range), which means I would expect to see him back in the England fold, given that is quite clearly our archilles heel.

Let's not look at England though for these kind of players anytime soon. We have some potentially competent, but I don't think we'll see anyone good enough unless the Burton project really succeeds.

That said, I am interested to know what will happen to Wilshere. When Pirlo first began his career at Brescia, he was pidgeonholed to become an old school Italian number 10 IIRC, but failed to show the kind of finishing ability required. I believe he was then moved into a deeper role when he joined Milan and there is where he has flourished.

Wilshere doesn't look to have the finishing required to become a proper AM. Whether Wilshere will ever develop the ability to match Pirlo's long range passing I doubt, but he certainly has the mobility, technique and short range vision you tend to associate with DLP's. I imagine we might see him playing that kind of role longer term for both club and country.
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The Easter Bunny

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by The Easter Bunny on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:05 am

Disco Benny wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:Well..we did have Carrick who was meant to be destined for that role at one point..and Huddlestone. Neither of them will ever be great at it though..and it doesn't look like either of them have much in the way of an England future now. Carrick because he doesnt want to be on the bench..and Hudd as he just doesn't seem to play consistantly anyway.

The Hudd has been long time injured. I imagine with Modric off next season we'll see much more of him.

He doesn't have the mobility to ever match Xavi/Pirlo/Modric etc. But he's certainly a top class passer of the ball (particularly over long range), which means I would expect to see him back in the England fold, given that is quite clearly our archilles heel.

Let's not look at England though for these kind of players anytime soon. We have some potentially competent, but I don't think we'll see anyone good enough unless the Burton project really succeeds.

That said, I am interested to know what will happen to Wilshere. When Pirlo first began his career at Brescia, he was pidgeonholed to become an old school Italian number 10 IIRC, but failed to show the kind of finishing ability required. I believe he was then moved into a deeper role when he joined Milan and there is where he has flourished.

Wilshere doesn't look to have the finishing required to become a proper AM. Whether Wilshere will ever develop the ability to match Pirlo's long range passing I doubt, but he certainly has the mobility, technique and short range vision you tend to associate with DLP's. I imagine we might see him playing that kind of role longer term for both club and country.

Close, Pirlo started at Inter as an AM but the Brescia coach put him in a deeper role. That's why the season Pirlo joined Milan, Pep joined Brescia as their coach was one of the few who still believed in the deep playmaker
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:21 am

When people discuss about Huddlestone, one is reminded a bit of Alonso. Again, more fodder to this discussion, Xabi-type players aren't classified as DLP.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:24 am

Disco Benny wrote:Wilshere doesn't look to have the finishing required to become a proper AM. Whether Wilshere will ever develop the ability to match Pirlo's long range passing I doubt, but he certainly has the mobility, technique and short range vision you tend to associate with DLP's. I imagine we might see him playing that kind of role longer term for both club and country.

Is AM/CAM only about finishing?

I also have doubts about Wilshere's vision, long range/short range!


Last edited by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by The Easter Bunny on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:25 am

Fade out wrote:When people discuss about Huddlestone, one is reminded a bit of Alonso. Again, more fodder to this discussion, Xabi-type players aren't classified as DLP.

Really, I think Xabi has expanded the DLP role. While Alonso is not as technically proficient as Pirlo he has an excellent range and seems to be very creative (judging from his time at pool, he combines this technical ability with defensive nous. He's very good at reading the game and making interceptions which players like Pirlo who were trained as an AM as a youngster never really learnt as well.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:30 am

The Easter Bunny wrote:
Fade out wrote:When people discuss about Huddlestone, one is reminded a bit of Alonso. Again, more fodder to this discussion, Xabi-type players aren't classified as DLP.

Really, I think Xabi has expanded the DLP role. While Alonso is not as technically proficient as Pirlo he has an excellent range and seems to be very creative (judging from his time at pool, he combines this technical ability with defensive nous. He's very good at reading the game and making interceptions which players like Pirlo who were trained as an AM as a youngster never really learnt as well.

Alonso has good long range passing, clever & combative in defending, but his close-control in tight spaces and general movement to pass/receive isn't quite a waltz as DLP's has to be. A bit static. He creates chances, but it's not as a jazz-movement as a Pirlo, who seems to waltz around and then weave a through pass.
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Hlebagone

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Hlebagone on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:32 am

Fade out wrote:
The Easter Bunny wrote:
Fade out wrote:When people discuss about Huddlestone, one is reminded a bit of Alonso. Again, more fodder to this discussion, Xabi-type players aren't classified as DLP.

Really, I think Xabi has expanded the DLP role. While Alonso is not as technically proficient as Pirlo he has an excellent range and seems to be very creative (judging from his time at pool, he combines this technical ability with defensive nous. He's very good at reading the game and making interceptions which players like Pirlo who were trained as an AM as a youngster never really learnt as well.

Alonso has good long range passing, clever & combative in defending, but his close-control in tight spaces and general movement to pass/receive isn't quite a waltz as DLP's has to be. A bit static. He creates chances, but it's not as a jazz-movement as a Pirlo, who seems to waltz around and then weave a through pass.

Using that criteria, there are probably only 3/4 players in the world who can be called a deep-lying playmaker.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:33 am

Yes, that's why I said it's a 'Niche' skill/role. You don't see likes of them much. And you will see possible extinction in near-future.
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Hlebagone

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Hlebagone on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:41 am

I find that unlikely. It's reasonable to suppose that Xavi and Pirlo are the finest that will be seen, and that their successor's will not be able to play the same role at such an adept level, but considering Spain and Barca's recent success, clubs that aim to dominate possession will want this type of player.

Certainly, Pirlo and Xavi are the purest of these types of players. And I doubt England will ever have a player that does what they do anywhere near as well, but there has been a refocus across the board towards players who are adept in possession playing in deep midfield, relying on technique rather than power. Wilshere, Schweinsteiger, Modric are all more mobile than Xavi and Pirlo - more likely to move the ball up vertically through the centre of the pitch, rather than skillfully turning away to find space (i'm generalising here), but they reinforce the general point that it's important to have skillful players in deep midfield who are good in possession. The Makelele role is no extinct instead.

Even clubs that are purely reactive need a player who can distribute the ball from deep. Otherwise, the players in space won't be found, when looking to break quickly.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:56 am

Ball distribution is one among the many facets of a DLP, is it not? But not the main criteria.

"Wilshere, Schweinsteiger, Modric are all more mobile" (And quicker) - their genetical design isn't to be a refined DLP (For Pirlo/Xavi, a necessisity, not just choice, gaining control of a football match by playing at the tempo that they and the team is best equipped to play, both attack and defend! ).

Unlike a box-to-box MF with playmaking skills, DLP is a rare species and it isn't all about discipline I think.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by bluenine on Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:48 pm

I think someone needs to convert Giovinco into a DLP. He has the characteristics and the passing ability to make it there, and his short stature will always be a issue upfront as a trequartista.

Poli is another, though he is more of a Motta than a Pirlo.

Verratti, too early to say.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Fade out on Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:07 pm

Many fail in the transition due to their defensive incapabilities. And could Giovinco set tempo/control the temperature in which the team needs to operate?
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Romford Pele on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:18 pm

I think Wilshere's too mobile and has many more facets to his game to be just a DLP. I think he'll be more box-to-box with all-round playmaking abilities.

Maybe S4P can tell us how Mceachran is progressing?
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by christmasborocooper on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:22 pm

Didnt he just spend about 6 months on loan at Swansea mostly sat on the bench?
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Romford Pele on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:25 pm

I think it was always going to be hard to get into a settled Swansea team though. He'd be playing in Britton's position and he was never going to get dropped. The more I think about it, if Mceachran had some runners beside him like Ramires and Essien, it could well work Ale
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by christmasborocooper on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:27 pm

Yeah I just mean S4P probably doesn't really know how well he's progressed because he's been sat on a bench in Wales for 6 months and hadnt really played for Chelsea prior to that (injured I think?)..he might've gone backwards for all we know!
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Jaime on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:31 pm

Why is nobody mentioning EVER BANEGA SUPERSTAR as one of the possible successors to the DLP?
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Romford Pele on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:39 pm

He's never impressed me that much to be fair Jaime, talent is undeniable though.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Jaime on Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:50 pm

Romford Pele wrote:He's never impressed me that much to be fair Jaime, talent is undeniable though.


I fully agree...I was just waiting for messiah to take the bait! Wink

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by worms. on Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:52 pm

The Past present and future:

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Hlebagone

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Hlebagone on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:06 pm

I'll reserve judgment on that one until he has to be the creative force in the team from deep.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Isco Benny on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:14 pm

I want Pirlos babys wrote:The Past present and future:


Pirlo waltzing past him to set up Di Natale was fun Ale

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by worms. on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:18 pm

That's true but I have never said Busquets is as good as Pirlo,at least not yet.

Xavi>Pirlo>Iniesta>Busquets>Zidane>Alonso>Scholes>Gerrard,Lampard>Henderson>Parker

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by worms. on Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:19 pm

Hlebagone wrote:I'll reserve judgment on that one until he has to be the creative force in the team from deep.

He is capable of doing nice through balls though,he has completed a few amazing assists from deep by doing that over the past 2 seasons.
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:51 pm

christmasborocooper wrote:Well..we did have Carrick who was meant to be destined for that role at one point..and Huddlestone. Neither of them will ever be great at it though..and it doesn't look like either of them have much in the way of an England future now. Carrick because he doesnt want to be on the bench..and Hudd as he just doesn't seem to play consistantly anyway.

Huddlestone was injured for all of last season and the best part of 2010-11. He's been missed.








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Balls Grayson

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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Balls Grayson on Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:21 am

any videos of Huddlestone performing brilliantly in an English 8-1-1 formation?
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Re: Future of DLP?

Post by Balls Grayson on Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:21 am

WITHOUT COLDPLAY Grr Grr Grr

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