EURO 2012 Final

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Fade out

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by Fade out on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:21 pm

Desperate? Laughing

Grosso as a RB? Laughing

2006 far stronger to me.

Current XI has Chiellini as LB.

I think if you go man to man 2006 was better, but as a team, Prandelli have made them punch way above the weight..

I also thought their elimination of a strong Germany (at home) in 2006 is better achievement (This current German side have GK(!), defensive, selection and tactical issues to me)

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:28 pm

I agree that there isn't a huge difference,but you know what the Italy supporters are like on here,they try to convince themselves that Italy and their club teams are shit so if they fail it won't feel as bad,a defense mechanism if you will.

Grosso was nothing special but he was great in that world cup,won the penalty against Australia when they were down to 10 men,scoring the winner against Germany and scored the winning penalty.Had a great tournament,lets not forget they had Nesta in the group stages though,Cannavaro and Nesta is one of the best CB pairings ever.

That team also had Del Piero,De Rossi,Gilardino and Inzagi on the bench as well.Better back up than this team has.



Last edited by worms. on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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messiah

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:29 pm

lol! this 48 year old is something special

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Fade out

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by Fade out on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:30 pm

Why don't you admit your schoolboy errors in even naming a XI? Laughing
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messiah

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:35 pm

worms. wrote:I agree that there isn't a huge difference,but you know what the Italy supporters are like on here,they try to convince themselves that Italy and their club teams are shit so if they fail it won't feel as bad,a defense mechanism if you will.

Grosso was nothing special but he was great in that world cup,won the penalty against Australia when they were down to 10 men,winning against Germany and scored the winning penalty.Had a great tournament,lets not forget they had Nesta in the group stages though,Cannavaro and Nesta is one of the best CB pairings ever.

That team also had Del Piero,De Rossi,Gilardino and Inzagi on the bench as well.Better back up than this team has.



Yeah grosso had a great world cup, but he like Perrotta,matrix and to a lesser extent Camo are not special players.

Bufffon and Pirlo are still there, they have no one to match Canna and Totti, But De Rossi and Marchisio are excellent players, the 06 team was better, but this team is pretty damn good as well.

don't have the depth either, but i am talking about the starting XI

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messiah

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:38 pm

Fade out wrote:Why don't you admit your schoolboy errors in even naming a XI? Laughing

Is that not the starting XI for the WC, is that not the team that will be played if everyone is fit in a 4-3-1-2.

a few players are out of position but what the fuck, I just type them as they came to me

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:39 pm

I always liked Cannoresi,good player who worked hard.

He's still playing at a a decent level.




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Fade out

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by Fade out on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:40 pm

messiah wrote:
Fade out wrote:Why don't you admit your schoolboy errors in even naming a XI? Laughing

Is that not the starting XI for the WC, is that not the team that will be played if everyone is fit in a 4-3-1-2.

a few players are out of position but what the fuck, I just type them as they came to me

You keep tying as they come to you, I'll correct it if it's spectacularly bad. But could we keep out '48 year old' crap nonsense. I couldn't give a damn about your age either.
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by bluenine on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:12 pm

messiah wrote:
I keep hearing this team is so much worst that the 06 team, Man for man their isn't much between them Grosso,Matrix,Perrotta, where nothing special going into the world cup

I had mentioned that this Italy man for man is not as good as its predecessors in defence and attack. Comparing with the 2006 squad, you decide:

CBs: Nesta, Cannavaro, Materazzi & Barzagli vs Chiellini, Barzagli, Bonucci, & Ogbonna

Attack: Totti, Del Piero, Toni, Inzaghi, Iaquinta, Gilardino vs Cassano, Balotelli, Di Natale, Borini, Diamanti, Giovinco

You still don't think there is much of a difference? IMO the difference is clear. Its even more stark when you consider the ones left behind. In 2006, Lippi had a far more talented pool to choose from, players like Veiri, Miccoli, Di Natale, Cassano did not even make the squad.

However, this Italy is playing awesome as a team, the whole is so much greater than the individual sum of parts. That and Prandelli's football philosophy is what makes this team stand apart.



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messiah

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:21 pm

bluenine wrote:
messiah wrote:
I keep hearing this team is so much worst that the 06 team, Man for man their isn't much between them Grosso,Matrix,Perrotta, where nothing special going into the world cup

I had mentioned that this Italy man for man is not as good as its predecessors in defence and attack. Comparing with the 2006 squad, you decide:

CBs: Nesta, Cannavaro, Materazzi & Barzagli vs Chiellini, Barzagli, Bonucci, & Ogbonna

Attack: Totti, Del Piero, Toni, Inzaghi, Iaquinta, Gilardino vs Cassano, Balotelli, Di Natale, Borini, Diamanti, Giovinco

There isn't much difference you think? IMO the difference is clear.

However, this Italy is playing awesome as a team, the whole is so much greater than the individual sum of parts. That and Prandelli's football philosophy is what makes this team stand apart.




Canna and Nesta are gods, but nesta didn't play in the KO stage, Barzagli is still there and Cheielini is certainly better than Matrix, looking at the back-line that starter the final has a whole and not just canna, not much difference, the 06 wad better yes but the difference was canna.

I would day this midfield=06 midfield

Up front Yeah i will give you that
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bluenine

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by bluenine on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:30 pm

messiah wrote:
bluenine wrote:
messiah wrote:
I keep hearing this team is so much worst that the 06 team, Man for man their isn't much between them Grosso,Matrix,Perrotta, where nothing special going into the world cup

I had mentioned that this Italy man for man is not as good as its predecessors in defence and attack. Comparing with the 2006 squad, you decide:

CBs: Nesta, Cannavaro, Materazzi & Barzagli vs Chiellini, Barzagli, Bonucci, & Ogbonna

Attack: Totti, Del Piero, Toni, Inzaghi, Iaquinta, Gilardino vs Cassano, Balotelli, Di Natale, Borini, Diamanti, Giovinco

There isn't much difference you think? IMO the difference is clear.

However, this Italy is playing awesome as a team, the whole is so much greater than the individual sum of parts. That and Prandelli's football philosophy is what makes this team stand apart.
Canna and Nesta are gods, but nesta didn't play in the KO stage, Barzagli is still there and Cheielini is certainly better than Matrix, looking at the back-line that starter the final has a whole and not just canna, not much difference, the 06 wad better yes but the difference was canna.

I would day this midfield=06 midfield

Up front Yeah i will give you that

So you are agreeing that individually the 2006 defence & attack were better? No argument then. Laughing

Another way of comparing man to man is:

2006 ------- 2012
Nesta >>>> Chiellini
Cannavaro >>>> Barzagli
Barzagli > Bonucci
Materazzi > Ogbonna

So the defence was substantially better, agree?

Totti >>> Cassano
Del Piero > Balotelli
Toni >= Di Natale
Inzaghi > Giovinco
Iaquinta > Diamanti
Gila > Borini

Again, man to man, its no contest. Hell, some of the strikers left behind in 2006 (Veiri, Miccoli, Cassano, etc) were better than some current ones in the squad like Diamanti, Borini, etc.

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:56 pm

Why are you ignoring the fact that Nesta didn't play in the knockout stages?

Why are you comparing Ogbonna who hasn't played a single minute to Materazzi?

Also Messiah said the first 11 is close to the one in 06,so why are you talking about the quality of the rest of the squad as well?
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:07 pm

worms said pretty much what I would have. you are tilting to favor your opinion. the defense that started the KO games as a whole not just canna isnt much better that this, this team probably has a more complete midfield, the O6 team had better forwards, but thats down to totti. mario has done more than toni and is a better player. all in all the O6 team was better, but this team is pretty good, top 5 in the comp before a ball was kicked
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by bluenine on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:07 pm

worms. wrote:Why are you ignoring the fact that Nesta didn't play in the knockout stages?

Why are you comparing Ogbonna who hasn't played a single minute to Materazzi?

Also Messiah said the first 11 is close to the one in 06,so why are you talking about the quality of the rest of the squad as well?
My argument is that individual talent available in 2006 was significantly higher than current.... not who played in KO or Group stage, or even how well they played, first 11, etc.

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:13 pm

I would argue that the 11 who started the majority of games in 06 weren't much better than the current 11.
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by Fade out on Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:20 pm

Fullbacks.
Grosso-Zambrotta were best FBs of 2006 tournament. A good combination of conservative-offensive mechanism. > Chiellini-Abate/Balzaretti

Center back
Canna-Nesta/Matrix > Barzagli-Bonucci

(Regista/DLP-Trequartista/SS)
Pirlo-Totti > Pirlo-Cassano

(Covering Midfielders)
Gattuso-Camoranesi-Perotta < DDR-Montolivo-Marchisio [the latter's playmaking qualities makes Pirlo shine more than 2006 IMO]

(Strikers)
Toni < Balotelli

Overall, I'd be tearing my hair out to score vs 2006 team. Their goals came from everywhere. Including set-pieces. Grr

OTOH, I'd feel more comfortable facing 2012 team as there's always a chance to score goals.

As for attack, I'd say the covering Mfs and striker makes 2012 team capable of scoring more goals..


Last edited by Fade out on Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by debaser on Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:58 am

worms. wrote:I always liked Cannoresi,good player who worked hard.

He's still playing at a a decent level.

So after all this, it turns out worms is David Pleat. ffs No
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by Pras_tama on Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:02 am

It's going to be decided by penalties again. Let's see whether Pirlo or Ramos dare to do 'the panenka' again

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:49 pm



http://pesstatsdatabase.com/viewtopic.php?t=450

Quality player him,can't believe he only just got his big move though at 27.

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:58 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jun/29/euro-2012-tactics-spain-italy

Some good points here,I think Italy would be better off if they went back to the 3 - 5 - 2 formation they used against us.If they play 4 - 3 - 1 - 2 then our full backs will have much more freedom to attack and we could expose their fullbacks creating 2 vs 1 situations,plus Abate might be injured and Maggio is a WB who isn't as solid at FB,so Balazerriti might have to play there.Iniesta and Alba could expose him.
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:40 pm

sperms. wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jun/29/euro-2012-tactics-spain-italy

Some good points here,I think Italy would be better off if they went back to the 3 - 5 - 2 formation they used against us.If they play 4 - 3 - 1 - 2 then our full backs will have much more freedom to attack and we could expose their fullbacks creating 2 vs 1 situations,plus Abate might be injured and Maggio is a WB who isn't as solid at FB,so Balazerriti might have to play there.Iniesta and Alba could expose him.

Germany and England could have ended up with the 2 vs 1 situation as they actually play proper wingers. It never happened though, because Italy were able to control the midfield.

Don't think it will happen against Spain though - Iniesta and Silva are not genuine wingers and will like to cut inside into the middle. Better to stick with the diamond so we don't get outnumbered in central midfield.
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by bluenine on Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:03 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
sperms. wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jun/29/euro-2012-tactics-spain-italy

Some good points here,I think Italy would be better off if they went back to the 3 - 5 - 2 formation they used against us.If they play 4 - 3 - 1 - 2 then our full backs will have much more freedom to attack and we could expose their fullbacks creating 2 vs 1 situations,plus Abate might be injured and Maggio is a WB who isn't as solid at FB,so Balazerriti might have to play there.Iniesta and Alba could expose him.

Germany and England could have ended up with the 2 vs 1 situation as they actually play proper wingers. It never happened though, because Italy were able to control the midfield.

Don't think it will happen against Spain though - Iniesta and Silva are not genuine wingers and will like to cut inside into the middle. Better to stick with the diamond so we don't get outnumbered in central midfield.
I agree. And playing Chiellini at LB gives Italy the tactical option of having 3 at the back most of the time, since he does not attack much.

I have a feeling Prandelli will start with a back 4, with a CB at LB (Chiellini) and an attacking wing-back at RB (Maggio). Just to take the game to the Spanish. It might be exciting to watch.

If Spain start without proper wingers, it could work.
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:26 pm

If Xavi can tough it out for one game, I think spain will win this game rather easily.

I was listening to BBC world football phone in today and andy brassell made a few points about spain and how xavi being one of the players that have played the most games per season in the world since 2008 something like 63 has affected how spain play, because at the end of the season he has nothing lift, his achilles tendon issues and only made this worse, so he was saying spains rather conservative approach since 2010 under del bosque is basically a tactic to extend xavi's legs throughout the tournaments, has xavi is the player around which everything is built, it was seen in the portugal game the difference between xavi being on the pitch during first 90 minutes and when he came off, spain instantly had more pace to their game, a comparison between spain in 08 when he didn't have these issues and now brings it across as well.

Age is catching up with the midfield general, i hope he can win this one and retire from international football in style

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:35 pm

I still reckon he should play the next world cup,not as AM but as CM instead of Alonso.

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by worms. on Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:55 pm

Despite not been at his best and not playing in his best position Xavi still has great stats.

Most Passes #euro2012: #Xavi 509 (92.9%) #Alonso 497 (88.3) #Schwein 415 (89.9) #Busquets 405 (91.9) #Iniesta 374 (90.4) #Pirlo 366 (87.7)

- Most Chances created in #euro2012 (Via @whoscored): Ozil 22 (5 games), #Xavi 20 (5), Sneijder 19 (3), Cassano 16 (5), Pirlo 15 (5). #fcblive
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Fade out

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by Fade out on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:04 pm

Most Chances created in #euro2012 (Via @whoscored): #Xavi 20 (5), Sneijder 19 (3)

lol! Stats Laughing
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messiah

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:35 am

DB says he will play 3 forwards in the final. by forwards he means iniesta,silva and cesc. Laughing
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by Jaime on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:39 pm



The ones that want to score 4 against La Roja vs The ones who want a hat trick of titles

Laughing
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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by TM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:50 pm

Cassano keen to set the record straight against Spain
The AC Milan forward has revealed that he was hit with fines regarding his weight while at the Bernabeu, and is eager to show the opposition fans his true worth on Sunday

The striker, who has featured in all of Italy’s games in Poland and Ukraine, spent an unhappy two years on the books at Los Blancos. He was shipped out on loan to Sampdoria for the entirety of his second season.

The club set him a 'playing weight', and he was fined for every gram he exceeded it by after his eating habits were perceived to have contributed to his poor form.

Now at AC Milan, Cassano is eager to show Spaniards what they have been missing after they failed to “appreciate” him.

"It would be great to beat the Spanish. My spell at Real Madrid didn't exactly go well. They called me fat and didn't appreciate me, so I am ready to put things in their place,” Cassano told ESPN.

Italy come into the game as underdogs against the reigning world and European champions, and Cassano believes La Roja are at risk of underestimating him and his team-mates.

The Azzurri are the only team yet to fall behind in the competition, and the striker also cited Spain’s recent poor record against Sunday’s opposition; they have won just two of their last 11 matches against Italy.

He continued: "The Spanish believe we are happy just to have got to the final. Maybe they have come to the conclusion that our mission is accomplished. They could not be more wrong.

"The Spanish, like the Germans, are never comfortable against us. We always make them sweat. We won't be intimidated.

Laughing

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messiah

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Re: EURO 2012 Final

Post by messiah on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:28 pm

Jaime wrote:

The ones that want to score 4 against La Roja vs The ones who want a hat trick of titles

Laughing

lol!

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