Valencia 2012 - 2013

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worms rises

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Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:18 pm

So we have signed Guardado and Gago.I heard Gago can't play very well with Banega but might that be because they have never had enough time to gel and you know what Argentina are like,lots of good players but the last few years they haven't had a steady starting 11.How did Gago play for Roma? Did he play DM or CM for them?

I still think we could do with a new RB though.Heard we were meant to be getting Van Der Wiel but I'm glad we didn't coz he's shit.
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:23 pm

they already signed Portuguese Joao Pereire for the right back sport, started every game for them at the euros

Gago played as a CM for Roma thought he played well, roma and madrid just couldn't come to an agreement over his transfer fee

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:50 pm

O right I didn't know we signed him,a bargain for 3.He impressed me in the Euros.We will have a excellent starting 11 then next season,I just hope we keep Banega,I believe Gago and Banega can learn to play together,they are both too good not to be able to make it work.

Krasic would be a good signing,but I'm not sure if we can afford any more players,even if they are on a free transfer.We still have players like Pablo Hernandez and Fergoulhi who not as good as Krasic at his best but still good players.Fergoulhi impressed me a lot last season,another bargain I think we bought him for about 1 million from some French lower division club.


--------------D Alves
---Pereira - Rami---Ruiz---Mathieu

-----------Gago
--------------------Banega

Fegouhli------Canales-----Guardado

---------------Soldado

Aduirz
Albeda
Tino Costa
Miguel
Piatti
Pablo Hernandez
Jonas
Guita


Sick team yo.
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:55 pm

Laughing you are too good, aduriz has signed for bilbao

Pablo better than Fegouhli

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:00 pm

Fuck him then.We would be better off buying a back up striker rather than Krasic then,Jonas can play there but he's more of a Second striker who plays deeper.

And last season Fergouhli was a lot better than Pablo Hernandez.I would rather start him.He is younger and has more potential.

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:03 pm

Give me a break bro it's hard supporting 9 teams. lol!

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:13 pm

I wish we would sign Nelson Valdez as back up,quality player.
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:13 pm

This is how the squad looks at the moment

Gk:Alves,Guaita
RB:Pereira,Barragan
CB:Rami,V.Ruiz,Costa
LB:Mathieu
DM:Albelda,Gago
CM:Benega,Tino Costa
RW:Pablo,Fergouhli
AM: Canales,Parejo,Chori
LW:Guardado,Piatti,,Viera
ST: Soldado,Jonas,Paco

bernat is a LW should be apart of the squad this season, they need to get rid of Chori and pay an additional LB and CB
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Jaime

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by Jaime on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:53 pm

messiah wrote:This is how the squad looks at the moment

Gk:Alves,Guaita
RB:Pereira,Barragan
CB:Rami,V.Ruiz,Costa
LB:Mathieu
DM:Albelda,Gago
CM:Benega,Tino Costa
RW:Pablo,Fergouhli
AM: Canales,Parejo,Chori
LW:Guardado,Piatti,,Viera
ST: Soldado,Jonas,Paco

bernat is a LW should be apart of the squad this season, they need to get rid of Chori and pay an additional LB and CB

Defence is still very weak imo. Pereira is an upgrade over Miguel but I was not overly impressed with him at the Euros. Rami & Ruiz is pretty solid but Costa f*cking hell he is awful plus. And I think Mathieu gave better performances as LW with Jordi Alba behind him than as LB.
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:06 pm

costa says he will prove emery was wrong about him this season, but i agree with you their defense is still weak and lacks depth if they can sign Siqueira or Angel it will help them greatly

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:36 pm

If we had some decent cash,even as much net budget as mid table DPL team we could challenge to get to the SF of the CL.What happened to us finishing the stadium? Hopefully it will be completed by the end of 2013 - 2014 season like they said it would.
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S4P

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by S4P on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:41 pm

unkhanscious wrote:If we had some decent cash,even as much net budget as mid table DPL team we could challenge to get to the SF of the CL.What happened to us finishing the stadium? Hopefully it will be completed by the end of 2013 - 2014 season like they said it would.

Blame the Spanish TV deal for this ok
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:49 pm

even if la liga were to go the way of collective bargaining, the average payout would still be much lower than that of the prem, it would take at least a decade to see parity in that aspect.

Don't blame the spanish tv deal, blame those in charge of Spanish football, who didn't see it fit to change the structure along time ago when the rich clubs weren't benefiting from it as much as they are now, so its not in their interest to change it.

The stadium should be finished within two years, finishing it is not the problem though they still won't be able to spend until they are able to sell the grounds on which the old one stood, to clear up their debts

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:51 pm

S4P wrote:
unkhanscious wrote:If we had some decent cash,even as much net budget as mid table DPL team we could challenge to get to the SF of the CL.What happened to us finishing the stadium? Hopefully it will be completed by the end of 2013 - 2014 season like they said it would.

Blame the Spanish TV deal for this ok

That's not the problem,the problem is the hundreds of millions of pounds of debt. <Ale>
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:59 am

its seems the 8m euros for gago actually included the 4m for canales, if true its an even better deal than i thought, madrid have a 16m buyback clause
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:08 pm

So i have nothing better to do this early Saturday morning so I decided to do some reading on valencia's situation and came across some interesting statements, apparently they were close to a sale of 320 million for the land on which the mestalla stands , before the market tanked, leading the buyer to drop his offer to 240 million, which was rejected, even though it would have wiped out the clubs bank debts, not only that but they also rejected a offer of by Bancaja the bank had been willing to clear the 240 million debt in exchange for the land. Llorente still believes that he can get at least 300 million.

I am starting to feel a lot less sorry for them now, how can could they reject these offers in a time of recession in hopes of getting more, all the time the debt remain sky high and people outside of la liga constantly talk about TV deal, its stupid management like this that has really affected La liga.

The can only hope the city council go through with their development plan which would include finishing the mestalla

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:11 pm

Why? If we end up getting more money than $240 million then it will be good.If we can't we can always sell for a lower price.
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:24 pm

the odds of them getting more in the current climate is slim, especially in the short term, and FFP will mean they can't continue to carry those massive debts any more, their total revenue currently stands at 102m euros and debt 370m, if they can get more it would be great but i don't see it happening over the next couple of years unless they sell the land to the city and the city already gave them the land the new stadium is being built on for free, I think that is enough

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:44 pm

I just wish all this shit would be over,though it is remarkable how well we have coped considering how fucked we have been financially the last several years.We still make the CL every year,have good players and play good football despite selling one of our best players nearly every single year.
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EMP

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:50 pm

messiah wrote:So i have nothing better to do this early Saturday morning so I decided to do some reading on valencia's situation and came across some interesting statements, apparently they were close to a sale of 320 million for the land on which the mestalla stands , before the market tanked, leading the buyer to drop his offer to 240 million, which was rejected, even though it would have wiped out the clubs bank debts, not only that but they also rejected a offer of by Bancaja the bank had been willing to clear the 240 million debt in exchange for the land. Llorente still believes that he can get at least 300 million.

I am starting to feel a lot less sorry for them now, how can could they reject these offers in a time of recession in hopes of getting more, all the time the debt remain sky high and people outside of la liga constantly talk about TV deal, its stupid management like this that has really affected La liga.

The can only hope the city council go through with their development plan which would include finishing the mestalla

Because the debt would still be there without the asset required to clear it. Perhaps llorente thought that the market would recover, or he knew that the deficit would mean that they would still be in significant debt that would ruin the plans. The debt does not exist in isolation. New Mestalla has to be completed, players have to be bought and sold - some of which inevitably won't work out.

There was undoubtedly poor mangament, but that was really under Soler and that is serious problem that Llorente has inherited. He can't afford a 60m hit, so he feels there is little option but to hold out. Had the Communitat de Valencia bailed us out (bought the training ground at over the odds) Valencia would be okay now. The TV deal doesn't help and without top European football things will only get worse. A very rich benefactor would help.

worms rises

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by worms rises on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:57 pm

I don't see us not qualifying for the CL for at least another few years.Especially with it now becoming clear that Malaga aren't going to spend loads.
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EMP

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:00 pm

messiah wrote:the odds of them getting more in the current climate is slim, especially in the short term, and FFP will mean they can't continue to carry those massive debts any more, their total revenue currently stands at 102m euros and debt 370m, if they can get more it would be great but i don't see it happening over the next couple of years unless they sell the land to the city and the city already gave them the land the new stadium is being built on for free, I think that is enough

Why not? The land will still be there to sell when the new stadium is completed. Why should they sell it for less than they think they can get? It remains an asset only while they have it. Value will rise again eventually. They have had to sell top talent and not been able to reinvest it all as they would like. The banks have not been short-changed. They have had their cut. The current value and bids are based on exploiting the debt. Why should they accept less than it is worth, if by waiting they get a better offer?
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:00 pm

Little update on how things stand at the moment and how the could look in 2015 when the stadium is finished and the new tv deal comes into effect

Revenues: 116m (42m TV and 41.8.m Match day(league only)
Debts:370m

The new spainish TV deal is expected to bring in a total of 900m euros increasing from it's current 600m which is the 2nd lowest of the big 5 leagues and since its still the second most popular league in Europe its pretty realistic.

Their is a agreement (nothing signed) between Barca,real,Valencia and Atletico who are the four clubs that get the highest percentage of the current TV deal to decrease their percentage Barca and real to 34 percent and Valencia and Atletico to 11 from 13, So Valencia will see their TV money moving up to 50m euros fron the current 42m

The new stadium is projected to double their current match day revenue, so it should be 80m

as mentioned they are also looking to get 300m for the mestalla land, lets say they get 250.

so by 2015

revenues should increase from 116m to around 160m
Debts should be reduced to 120m which is still too high for that level on income, but it will most likely be less than that, as they will continue to pay down the debt in the intervening years.

reveuences should also increase, with CL Money, more money should equal better player, better players means better results, better results equals more money from sponsors, they current recieve 4m from Joma in their kit deal which expires in 2016 and around the same from jinko, that should at least double by the end of 2016


Source deloitte and swissramble


Last edited by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:29 pm; edited 2 times in total
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EMP

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:06 pm

unkhanscious wrote:I don't see us not qualifying for the CL for at least another few years.Especially with it now becoming clear that Malaga aren't going to spend loads.

Not just Malaga. Atletico is a threat as it is gaining European experience and Simeone looks like he can develop them further. We are good at getting bargains and turning decent and good players into very good ones, but we don't and can't hold on to them. The loss of great talent over the last three years is horrendous. We can't afford crap campaigns like last year. Qualifying isn't enough; we will lose more talent. We need a decent run and to become strong again. Also Malaga is still a threat in La Liga, which can treaten Champion's League qualification.
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:10 pm

EMP wrote:
messiah wrote:the odds of them getting more in the current climate is slim, especially in the short term, and FFP will mean they can't continue to carry those massive debts any more, their total revenue currently stands at 102m euros and debt 370m, if they can get more it would be great but i don't see it happening over the next couple of years unless they sell the land to the city and the city already gave them the land the new stadium is being built on for free, I think that is enough

Why not? The land will still be there to sell when the new stadium is completed. Why should they sell it for less than they think they can get? It remains an asset only while they have it. Value will rise again eventually. They have had to sell top talent and not been able to reinvest it all as they would like. The banks have not been short-changed. They have had their cut. The current value and bids are based on exploiting the debt. Why should they accept less than it is worth, if by waiting they get a better offer?

FFP, they won't be able to play in the CL missing out on 30m with the debts at their current level and thats the only way I see them paying it down, if they can get more in the short term 3 years or so, then its fine but I don't see that happening
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:21 pm

also when you look at Valencia's debt's being 370m euros, it makes one realize if they didn't already that their is no way barca's debt is at 335m, just impossible, rosell really needs to stop telling this lie
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EMP

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:59 pm

messiah wrote:
EMP wrote:
messiah wrote:the odds of them getting more in the current climate is slim, especially in the short term, and FFP will mean they can't continue to carry those massive debts any more, their total revenue currently stands at 102m euros and debt 370m, if they can get more it would be great but i don't see it happening over the next couple of years unless they sell the land to the city and the city already gave them the land the new stadium is being built on for free, I think that is enough

Why not? The land will still be there to sell when the new stadium is completed. Why should they sell it for less than they think they can get? It remains an asset only while they have it. Value will rise again eventually. They have had to sell top talent and not been able to reinvest it all as they would like. The banks have not been short-changed. They have had their cut. The current value and bids are based on exploiting the debt. Why should they accept less than it is worth, if by waiting they get a better offer?

FFP, they won't be able to play in the CL missing out on 30m with the debts at their current level and thats the only way I see them paying it down, if they can get more in the short term 3 years or so, then its fine but I don't see that happening

That's my point about FFP; Valencia is due a bail out by the local government as both Barcelona and Real Madrid were saved from debt when they needed it. All FFP does is maintain the status quo with virtually no chance of ever competing on an even playing field. It should either be retrospective or take into account that the current financial situation is not conducive to fair play and that in Valencia's case the bottom fell out after it was committed to the new stadium and that the current management has been responsible while previous owners like Soler were not.

Furthermore, FFP will affect football tourism and therefore the local economy. If Valencia qualify for CL on merit then FFP should go perform seemingly impossible acts of self-gatification. It will prevent clubs competing and lead to the loss of talent at below market rates. All FFP will do is lead to bigger and richer clubs ripping off talent at below market rates. Several clubs thought they could rip off Valencia and were sent packing and rightly so, plus the price should always be higher to Barcelona and Real and now Atletico and Malaga too. Any talent sold to them weakens us and strengthens a rival.

European football isn't just ticket sales and it doesn't just affect the clubs. Travelling fans need accommodation, travel, food, etc. It also boosts tourism. Valencia is a glorious city with a lot to offer. There's loads to see and do there and without CL football the local economy will take a big hit, which means local businesses need Valencia in the Champion's League. Failing to give the club the best chance of that will adversely affect the local economy. It is therefore i the interests of the local government to help as much as it can to give Valencia what it needs.
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messiah

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by messiah on Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:05 pm

I agree that FFP only services to maintain the status quo, which is something people who have really read the document don't under stand, their will be no city,psg or Chelsea pop up once this comes into effect.
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EMP

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by EMP on Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:21 pm

messiah wrote:I agree that FFP only services to maintain the status quo, which is something people who have really read the document don't under stand, their will be no city,psg or Chelsea pop up once this comes into effect.

Exactly, but anyone that gets in quick enough or is already in gets the full benefit for years to come. This is a travesty.
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Fey

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Re: Valencia 2012 - 2013

Post by Fey on Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:21 pm

FFP should be against Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia rather then Chelsea, PSG and City.

If there is any justice in football Valencia MUST go bust!

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