U-21 European Championship 2013

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Brian2468

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Brian2468 on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:17 pm

Have to say after years of other international teams at the top having Spain at the top and Kicking everybody's butts is good Specially if your a England Fan for some reason even though we are not playing well the rest of the top nations are busting blood vessels and still losing out.Very Happy
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:32 pm

Some Spain facts:

In the last 5 years Spain have won:
1 world Cup
2 European Championships
2 European U21 Championships
2 European U19 Championships.

Their midfield? Oh, only Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alonso, Fabregas, Thiago, Isco, Mata, Silva, Cazorla, Javi Martinez, Navas.

BE SCARED SOUTH AMERICA. BE VERY SCARED
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Kroos

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Kroos on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:26 pm

spain is overrated, they should have lost both ties against portugal (wc2010 and ec 2012)


most coaches are simply dumb and don`t know how to play against them, the only reason why they look like they play with 2 men more is there tactical advantage
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bluenine

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by bluenine on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:33 pm

Disco Benny wrote:Some Spain facts:

In the last 5 years Spain have won:
1 world Cup
2 European Championships
2 European U21 Championships
2 European U19 Championships.

Their midfield? Oh, only Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alonso, Fabregas, Thiago, Isco, Mata, Silva, Cazorla, Javi Martinez, Navas.

BE SCARED SOUTH AMERICA. BE VERY SCARED

The only good news for the rest of the world is that all of them cannot start together! That is scary depth.

Spain were a level ahead of Italy tonight. I was also very impressed by Illarramendi - never seen him before this tournament, looks like a good talent.



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Kimbo

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Kimbo on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:41 pm

Kroos wrote:spain is overrated, they should have lost both ties against portugal (wc2010 and ec 2012)


most coaches are simply dumb and don`t know how to play against them, the only reason why they look like they play with 2 men more is there tactical advantage

Shoulda woulda didn't. <Ale>
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Kroos

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Kroos on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:43 pm

Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alonso, Fabregas, Thiago, Isco, Mata, Silva, Cazorla, Javi Martinez, Navas    




schweinsteiger, götze, gündogan, özil, kroos, bender, bender, draxler, reus, müller


well i don`t know what you think, but germany IMPRESS me more Very Happy and none of them in there 30`s
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Kroos

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Kroos on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:53 pm

i think italy is lacking certain types of players to threaten spain (at U-level or senior level), juve has the same problem, they field to many central midfielders or work horses, but they lack creativity and pace upfront

the best way to beat spain is to hit them on the flank, and close down the middle, of course only quality players from midfield can bring quality passes to quality pacey  attackers, who can also work hard

oh yeah and of course, corners


Last edited by Kroos on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Effenberg

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Effenberg on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:00 pm

Loew just needs to call Heynckes and learn from the master. Boom. Spain solved.
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messiah

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by messiah on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:03 pm

team of the tournament

de gea montoya /donati bartra/barchatti ? martinez/barchatti. dutch lb mendi thiago veratti isco morata insignia my team of the tournament

best player isco/thiago
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christmasborocooper

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by christmasborocooper on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:11 pm

Borini seemingly is every bit the player that Maccarone was.
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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Jaime on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:16 pm

bluenine wrote:
Disco Benny wrote:Some Spain facts:

In the last 5 years Spain have won:
1 world Cup
2 European Championships
2 European U21 Championships
2 European U19 Championships.

Their midfield? Oh, only Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Alonso, Fabregas, Thiago, Isco, Mata, Silva, Cazorla, Javi Martinez, Navas.

BE SCARED SOUTH AMERICA. BE VERY SCARED

The only good news for the rest of the world is that all of them cannot start together! That is scary depth.

Spain were a level ahead of Italy tonight. I was also very impressed by Illarramendi - never seen him before this tournament, looks like a good talent.


Him and Ruben Pardo have been bossing the midfield for Real Sociedad the last two years. Illarra is already better than f*cking Khedira but that's no surprise. Can't wait to see them in CL. Maybe after another 5 years of titles, Florentino will get it in his head to sign Spanish players.
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Super Progress

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Super Progress on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:46 pm

Gotta love how threatened Kroos feels by Spain Very Happy

Almost makes me want to support Spain just in jest.

Brian2468

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Brian2468 on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:26 am

The belief system Germany had as an advantage over countries has gone. The world is not as ignorant making it harder than ever to claim supremacy over a better football country such as Spain.
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Kroos

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Kroos on Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:26 am

Gotta love how threatened Kroos feels by Spain  

Almost makes me want to support Spain just in jest.





yeah i do, but only because of LÖW, this dumb person has nullified the german strengths and transformed us into the new dutch


but i don`t fear there players, and germany is probably the only nation who can easily match them in terms of quality, ok maybe spain can field 3 top class sides (well with average CB Very Happy), while we can only field 2 Wink
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Allez les rouges

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Allez les rouges on Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:24 am

Disco Benny wrote:
Allez les rouges wrote:I would put Chelsea's win and Italy's success in that semi-final in very different categories. 2000 was a huge defensive performance, one for the ages against the bottling Dutchies, capped off by a lovely penalty shoot-out with Totti's tasty panenka.

I think luck and Drogba were the main factors for the chavs that hellish night – you can quibble about unresolvable issues like whether they "deserved" it, but worst European champions ever? Most certainly, everyone knows it, and as much was confirmed last autumn with their abject CL exit.

Chiniestas Ale

Urgh, what rose tinted nonsense. Reeks of the typical hipster 'when an EPL team does it it's lucky but when a Continental team does it it's wonderful defending' revisionism.

Holland bottled countless opportunities in that game, then TWO penalties during the 90 minutes (conceding two penalties = good defending?) and then further penalties in the shoot out. It was only heroic because Italy happened to have 10 men and then held their nerve in the shoot out to go through. So did Chelsea at the Camp Nou.

The reality was Holland had an unusually off day, just as Barcelona and Bayern did against Chelsea, and thus fortune favoured the Italians and Chelsea in those instances. You can of course make a case that because they failed to convert their chances that those teams in question didn't deserve it, but when the opposition contrives to lose the game, it's not one to revise historically as some kind of masterful performance IMO

Tchussss Ale


 Erm Yes, your beloved rolly eyes. Again you wade in and rip an opinion of mine to shreds for being excessive and even "anti-English" when it didn't even occur to me that it was particularly controversial.

You disagree, but that Italian performance lives in the memory for me as being something of a defensive masterclass, if not heroic. Yes they had to survive two missed penalties (sometimes you have to save those as well – one was an excellent save) but they were a man down (I'm not saying they shouldn't have been) unlike famous paupers Chelsea, who played like that anyway. No one could claim that that was the extent of the Italian team's ambition throughout he whole tournament in 2000, as was seen again in the final. "Off day for Holland" is nonsense for me.

It's my view of that game, whether or not you think my memory is playing tricks on me and whether or not you think I'm blinded by anti-Chelsea bias. I just don't think there was anything comparably memorable about Chelsea's performance as a team in the final, aside from any question of whether they "deserved" it – you make your own luck. No need to ridicule me for inaccurate emotional revisionism, even if you disagree – we all have an emotional attachment to certain sporting performances, and "shirley" that's the joy of fußball or any other sport. Maybe we should have a thread on sporting performances from teams or players other than ones we normally support that we admire or have lived in the memory for some reason – particularly ones that others would disagree on or not have the same response to.

Congratulations Spananier, looks like more than one golden generation, fearsome stuff. I hate you. Ale

110%

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by 110% on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:06 pm

Congrats Spain for not being as boring as the senior side. Still lacking a top player in attack though and defenders aren't that great. Obviously it is easier to score against U21 defences than full senior sides, but for sure Spain will dominate possession against everyone for years to come.

As for the Chelsea argument about "deserving it". The point of football is to score more goals than the opposition, not to have the most possession or the most chances. Last weekend I was playing in a tournament and we absolutely battered a team, but ended up losing 1-0. We missed so many chances but we only have ourselves to blame. Did they "deserve" to go through? Of course, they won 1-0, even if it was their only chance of the game. People like to fall back on various arguments (possession, chances, referee etc) for "deserving a moral victory", but only scoring more goals makes you actually deserving of a victory.
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bluenine

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by bluenine on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:26 pm

110% wrote:As for the Chelsea argument about "deserving it". The point of football is to score more goals than the opposition, not to have the most possession or the most chances. Last weekend I was playing in a tournament and we absolutely battered a team, but ended up losing 1-0. We missed so many chances but we only have ourselves to blame. Did they "deserve" to go through? Of course, they won 1-0, even if it was their only chance of the game. People like to fall back on various arguments (possession, chances, referee etc) for "deserving a moral victory", but only scoring more goals makes you actually deserving of a victory.

Brilliantly put, mate. <Ale>
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Fey

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Fey on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:39 pm

Well, expected the outcome of the final. Holland would have done a bit better I guess, but Spain is clearly above anyone else. Amazing. Time for the rest to start a reconquista.
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:34 pm

Allez les rouges wrote:
Disco Benny wrote:
Allez les rouges wrote:I would put Chelsea's win and Italy's success in that semi-final in very different categories. 2000 was a huge defensive performance, one for the ages against the bottling Dutchies, capped off by a lovely penalty shoot-out with Totti's tasty panenka.

I think luck and Drogba were the main factors for the chavs that hellish night – you can quibble about unresolvable issues like whether they "deserved" it, but worst European champions ever? Most certainly, everyone knows it, and as much was confirmed last autumn with their abject CL exit.

Chiniestas Ale

Urgh, what rose tinted nonsense. Reeks of the typical hipster 'when an EPL team does it it's lucky but when a Continental team does it it's wonderful defending' revisionism.

Holland bottled countless opportunities in that game, then TWO penalties during the 90 minutes (conceding two penalties = good defending?) and then further penalties in the shoot out. It was only heroic because Italy happened to have 10 men and then held their nerve in the shoot out to go through. So did Chelsea at the Camp Nou.

The reality was Holland had an unusually off day, just as Barcelona and Bayern did against Chelsea, and thus fortune favoured the Italians and Chelsea in those instances. You can of course make a case that because they failed to convert their chances that those teams in question didn't deserve it, but when the opposition contrives to lose the game, it's not one to revise historically as some kind of masterful performance IMO

Tchussss Ale


 Erm Yes, your beloved rolly eyes. Again you wade in and rip an opinion of mine to shreds for being excessive and even "anti-English" when it didn't even occur to me that it was particularly controversial.

You disagree, but that Italian performance lives in the memory for me as being something of a defensive masterclass, if not heroic. Yes they had to survive two missed penalties (sometimes you have to save those as well – one was an excellent save) but they were a man down (I'm not saying they shouldn't have been) unlike famous paupers Chelsea, who played like that anyway. No one could claim that that was the extent of the Italian team's ambition throughout he whole tournament in 2000, as was seen again in the final. "Off day for Holland" is nonsense for me.

It's my view of that game, whether or not you think my memory is playing tricks on me and whether or not you think I'm blinded by anti-Chelsea bias. I just don't think there was anything comparably memorable about Chelsea's performance as a team in the final, aside from any question of whether they "deserved" it – you make your own luck. No need to ridicule me for inaccurate emotional revisionism, even if you disagree – we all have an emotional attachment to certain sporting performances, and "shirley" that's the joy of fußball or any other sport. Maybe we should have a thread on sporting performances from teams or players other than ones we normally support that we admire or have lived in the memory for some reason – particularly ones that others would disagree on or not have the same response to.

Congratulations Spananier, looks like more than one golden generation, fearsome stuff. I hate you. Ale

Oh Allez, you loveable hunk of a virtual meat and bone.

I'm not ripping anything apart. I just fail to agree with how one performance (Chelsea's) can be deemed so different from another (Italy's in 2000). Chelsea had 10 men also away at Camp Nou, they salvaged a 2-2 draw there after somehow surviving a Messi missed penalty. How can a performance by Italy where they conceded not one but two penalties and got a man sent off be described as a defensive masterclass? If we're talking about heroic performances, perhaps a masterclass of sheer blooded mindedness is a suitable description, but neither are worthy of elevating into some rose tinted realm of make believe.

If we're going to talk about defensive masterclasses, we should be comparing with Inter Milan's performance(s) in winning the CL in 2009. The two legs against Barcelona - two of the best defensive performances I have ever seen from any team. Italy's 2000 performance VS the Dutch was opportunism at best
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Allez les rouges

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Allez les rouges on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:17 am

I wasn't talking about Camp Nou, I think it's fair to say there's a difference between Italy's performance in 2000 and being camped in your own penalty area (yes, that has a lot to do with Barcelona).

It's funny, a lot if not most of the performances I remember as being defensively awesome or at least highly disciplined (and as you can imagine there aren't too many of those as an Arsenal fan) are precisely after being down to ten men, for obvious reasons. A 0-0 against your lot in '09 I think when Éboué got himself moronically sent off early on and Wenger boldly went 4-3-2, a 2-0 victory over West Ham in '10 when Vermaelen was sent off, even the 1-0 at Sunderland last year. Also perhaps the 1-0 win in Moscow to seal qualification for the WC when Boateng got two yellows on his debut (which in my view he could do little about).
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bluenine

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by bluenine on Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:54 am

Disco Benny wrote:
If we're going to talk about defensive masterclasses, we should be comparing with Inter Milan's performance(s) in winning the CL in 2009. The two legs against Barcelona - two of the best defensive performances I have ever seen from any team. Italy's 2000 performance VS the Dutch was opportunism at best

I am with Allez here, mate. I rate Italy's Euro 2000 SF defensive masterclass at the same level as Inter's semi final at Cam Nou. Sure, there was good fortune involved in both, but that does not take away from a great defensive performance against odds with 10 men. Toldo-Maldini-Nesta-Cannavao were as brilliant in that game as Cesar-Chivu-Samuel-Lucio were in 2010. If anything, that Holland side at home were more potent in attack than the Barca side Inter faced. We talked about luck due to missed penalties - that Toldo save on Frank de Boer's (?) penalty was as outstanding as they come.

Try watching that game again, the highlights do not do justice to the organisation & individual brilliance of those Italian defenders. Holland would have and should have scored 6-7 goals that night (and indeed they did score 6 in the QF against a very capable Yugoslavian side). It wasn't just down to "luck" that they didn't score any.

110%

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:04 pm

bluenine wrote:
Disco Benny wrote:
If we're going to talk about defensive masterclasses, we should be comparing with Inter Milan's performance(s) in winning the CL in 2009. The two legs against Barcelona - two of the best defensive performances I have ever seen from any team. Italy's 2000 performance VS the Dutch was opportunism at best

I am with Allez here, mate. I rate Italy's Euro 2000 SF defensive masterclass at the same level as Inter's semi final at Cam Nou. Sure, there was good fortune involved in both, but that does not take away from a great defensive performance against odds with 10 men. Toldo-Maldini-Nesta-Cannavao were as brilliant in that game as Cesar-Chivu-Samuel-Lucio were in 2010. If anything, that Holland side at home were more potent in attack than the Barca side Inter faced. We talked about luck due to missed penalties - that Toldo save on Frank de Boer's (?) penalty was as outstanding as they come.

Try watching that game again, the highlights do not do justice to the organisation & individual brilliance of those Italian defenders. Holland would have and should have scored 6-7 goals that night (and indeed they did score 6 in the QF against a very capable Yugoslavian side). It wasn't just down to "luck" that they didn't score any.

I have to say I cannot remember 13 years ago, but why was any of that different from Chelsea's performances in the CL? Barcelona should have scored 6 in either game but didn't. Bayern should have scored maybe 10 and didn't. Seems like Italians provide defensive masterclasses and others (like Chelsea) just get lucky.

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Brian2468 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:11 pm

To say defensive master class the goal keeper does not hardly touch the ball, or does not make any saves that simple really. <Ale>
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bluenine

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by bluenine on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:44 pm

110% wrote:
bluenine wrote:
Disco Benny wrote:
If we're going to talk about defensive masterclasses, we should be comparing with Inter Milan's performance(s) in winning the CL in 2009. The two legs against Barcelona - two of the best defensive performances I have ever seen from any team. Italy's 2000 performance VS the Dutch was opportunism at best

I am with Allez here, mate. I rate Italy's Euro 2000 SF defensive masterclass at the same level as Inter's semi final at Cam Nou. Sure, there was good fortune involved in both, but that does not take away from a great defensive performance against odds with 10 men. Toldo-Maldini-Nesta-Cannavao were as brilliant in that game as Cesar-Chivu-Samuel-Lucio were in 2010. If anything, that Holland side at home were more potent in attack than the Barca side Inter faced. We talked about luck due to missed penalties - that Toldo save on Frank de Boer's (?) penalty was as outstanding as they come.

Try watching that game again, the highlights do not do justice to the organisation & individual brilliance of those Italian defenders. Holland would have and should have scored 6-7 goals that night (and indeed they did score 6 in the QF against a very capable Yugoslavian side). It wasn't just down to "luck" that they didn't score any.

I have to say I cannot remember 13 years ago, but why was any of that different from Chelsea's performances in the CL? Barcelona should have scored 6 in either game but didn't. Bayern should have scored maybe 10 and didn't.  Seems like Italians provide defensive masterclasses and others (like Chelsea) just get lucky.
Huh? I think you are completely forgetting which side of the "Chelsea argument" I am on:
bluenine wrote:I find it quite distasteful when anyone claims that Chelsea did not "deserve" to win the CL. IMO they deserved it as much as any other winner.
However, that said, I do believe that the Italian team's defensive performance in 2000 SF was better than Chelsea's in 2012 CL, which is a matter of personal opinion. That semi-final is one of the best defensive performances I have seen since 1994 WC final.

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:52 pm

bluenine wrote:
110% wrote:
bluenine wrote:
Disco Benny wrote:
If we're going to talk about defensive masterclasses, we should be comparing with Inter Milan's performance(s) in winning the CL in 2009. The two legs against Barcelona - two of the best defensive performances I have ever seen from any team. Italy's 2000 performance VS the Dutch was opportunism at best

I am with Allez here, mate. I rate Italy's Euro 2000 SF defensive masterclass at the same level as Inter's semi final at Cam Nou. Sure, there was good fortune involved in both, but that does not take away from a great defensive performance against odds with 10 men. Toldo-Maldini-Nesta-Cannavao were as brilliant in that game as Cesar-Chivu-Samuel-Lucio were in 2010. If anything, that Holland side at home were more potent in attack than the Barca side Inter faced. We talked about luck due to missed penalties - that Toldo save on Frank de Boer's (?) penalty was as outstanding as they come.

Try watching that game again, the highlights do not do justice to the organisation & individual brilliance of those Italian defenders. Holland would have and should have scored 6-7 goals that night (and indeed they did score 6 in the QF against a very capable Yugoslavian side). It wasn't just down to "luck" that they didn't score any.

I have to say I cannot remember 13 years ago, but why was any of that different from Chelsea's performances in the CL? Barcelona should have scored 6 in either game but didn't. Bayern should have scored maybe 10 and didn't.  Seems like Italians provide defensive masterclasses and others (like Chelsea) just get lucky.

While I do believe that the Italian team's defensive performance in 2000 SF was better than Chelsea's in 2012 CL, which is a matter of personal opinion, I think you are completely forgetting which side of the "Chelsea argument" I am on:

bluenine wrote:I find it quite distasteful when anyone claims that Chelsea did not "deserve" to win the CL. IMO they deserved it as much as any other winner.

Therefore you are with Allez only when it comes to him saying positive things about Italian teams, because Allez is not on your side of the argument as regards Chelsea, or excluding Germany as being one of the two greatest nations ever to play football Razz .

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:59 pm

Brian2468 wrote:To say defensive master class the goal keeper does not hardly touch the ball, or does not make any saves that simple really. <Ale>

It's odd that you don't consider the goal-keeper to be part of the defence? It's like saying the striker is not part of the attack.

When Australia beat western samoa 32-0, was that a defensive masterclass from australia? Because I am pretty sure their goal-keeper hardly touched the ball or made a save.


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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Brian2468 on Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:57 pm

110% wrote:
Brian2468 wrote:To say defensive master class the goal keeper does not hardly touch the ball, or does not make any saves that simple really. <Ale>

It's odd that you don't consider the goal-keeper to be part of the defence? It's like saying the striker is not part of the attack.

When Australia beat western samoa 32-0, was that a defensive masterclass from australia? Because I am pretty sure their goal-keeper hardly touched the ball or made a save.


Oh do not get me wrong here, when we say defensive Masterclass it has a different meaning to me. If a side has to heavily rely on a goalkeeper then the probability of scoring goes right up. The defensive system has broken down and leaves the goalkeeper saving the day.

Be interesting to check the stats on all the best sides to see who really is the better I think this is where Spain's style becomes a masterful answer to these so called masterclass defences.

For me the Goalie is a different breed of player if compared to his outfield team mates. He plays and shares in all the work but also carries most of the blame if scored on, imo.
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:35 pm

bluenine wrote:
Disco Benny wrote:
If we're going to talk about defensive masterclasses, we should be comparing with Inter Milan's performance(s) in winning the CL in 2009. The two legs against Barcelona - two of the best defensive performances I have ever seen from any team. Italy's 2000 performance VS the Dutch was opportunism at best

I am with Allez here, mate. I rate Italy's Euro 2000 SF defensive masterclass at the same level as Inter's semi final at Cam Nou. Sure, there was good fortune involved in both, but that does not take away from a great defensive performance against odds with 10 men. Toldo-Maldini-Nesta-Cannavao were as brilliant in that game as Cesar-Chivu-Samuel-Lucio were in 2010. If anything, that Holland side at home were more potent in attack than the Barca side Inter faced. We talked about luck due to missed penalties - that Toldo save on Frank de Boer's (?) penalty was as outstanding as they come.

Try watching that game again, the highlights do not do justice to the organisation & individual brilliance of those Italian defenders. Holland would have and should have scored 6-7 goals that night (and indeed they did score 6 in the QF against a very capable Yugoslavian side). It wasn't just down to "luck" that they didn't score any.

I respect both your's and Allez's opinions. Luckily you're both wrong Laughing

But seriously - conceding two penalties should have forever voided this as an example of a defensive masterclass. Masterful defending does not involve committing fouls and relying on penalty takers or goalkeepers having to save the team's collective arse. Seems obvious to me that Italy's reputation for brilliant defending has clouded impartial judgement.

Also, playing with 10 men concedes the team in question to play defensively anyway as a result. Again, I credit 10 men heroic performances as much as the next man, but there are many better examples where said team has not ridden the opportunism of a misfiring opponent.

Whilst we can quibble about which of the two - Chelsea or Italy - got luckier, neither seems a pertinent example of anything else but sheer dogged determination and refusal to give up the game against the odds.

The example Allez gave of Arsenal against Spurs is actually an excellent example, but because Arsenal are rarely equated with decent defending it's less cited in the annals of history. In comparison, each time Italy produce a dogged display, the go-to seems to be to laud it as another magnificent defensive masterclass, even when it is not always the case Ale
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Allez les rouges

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:22 am

The problem with that one is that Holland (2000) are just a little better than Spurssss ('09) Smile – and even then you missed chances.

But anyway we've got to the stage where nothing more is achieved short of all sitting down to re-watch the game together. That was the game when I first became fully aware of Cannavaro and Nesta, and as I recall they went on to do OK...
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bluenine

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by bluenine on Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:23 pm

Disco Benny wrote:In comparison, each time Italy produce a dogged display, the go-to seems to be to laud it as another magnificent defensive masterclass, even when it is not always the case Ale

There is a reason why Italy had that kind of a reputation those days. They were brilliant defensively. And that game in 2000 is one of the best examples of that defense IMO - and I have seen almost all of Italy's competitive games in the last 25 or so years.

Just like the 1994 final was an example of the class of Maldini & Baresi, the 2000 semis was probably the best example of the class of Nesta & Cannavaro. Sure, those two have had a lot of great games where they have not conceeded any chances, which by your definition may be better examples, but that game stands out for me. I have a feeling that if it were Chiellini-Barzagli-Bonucci that night instead of Nesta-Cannavaro-Maldini, Italy would have conceeded half a dozen goals.

Anyways, like Allez said, this discussion has reached a stalemate. Lets just agree to disagree on this.

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

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