U-21 European Championship 2013

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Allez les rouges

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:10 am

Yes, that was a pretty frustrating if a v entertaining game. Quite promising that even with individuals who don't quite match up the team as a whole still compensates.

Yeah someone correct the title of this fucking thread.
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Fey

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Fey on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:27 pm



BMI lol!

Meanwhile, Pearce claims that last nights game was the best U-21 game he has ever seen.

And van Ginkel claims that he totally raped Holbty!
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Axeslammer

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Axeslammer on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:42 pm

BMI & De Vrij were a disgrace last night....

Wijnaldum & John too, I'd start Fer and Jozefzoon/Depay instead of them next match.
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Fey

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Fey on Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:55 pm

In the 2nd half perhaps! But that is more to do with the fact that the midfield got totally overrun. Wouldnt have happened with Clasie on.

Bruno Martins Indi first half pass accuracy - 97%
Stefan De Vrij first half pass accuracy - 95%

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Axeslammer

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Axeslammer on Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:14 pm

Fey wrote:In the 2nd half perhaps! But that is more to do with the fact that the midfield got totally overrun. Wouldnt have happened with Clasie on.

Bruno Martins Indi first half pass accuracy - 97%
Stefan De Vrij first half pass accuracy - 95%


Who cares about pass accuracy ?! Are you an Ajacied all of a sudden ?

They constantly (1st *and* 2nd half) mismarked their man !

Fer for strength on midfield is a good idea indeed Ale
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:15 pm

Interesting article from an England perspective around how clearly there is an aversion within the country's clubs and players towards these summer tournaments. I remember Mata playing 3 tournaments in one summer a few years back as an example of the mindset difference in a country like Spain:

England Under-21 coach Stuart Pearce leads calls for mandatory selection after Euro 2013 defeat by Italy

The Football Association is considering mandatory call-ups after Stuart Pearce delivered a damning indictment of the structure of English football that he believes hinders player development.

Hindered: England Under-21 coach Stuart Pearce was missing 17 players in the defeat by Italy

Pearce particularly lamented the unavailability of 17 players for Wedneday's Uefa Under-21 Championships defeat to Italy here.
Some were injured, some suspended while others have been on senior England duty.
Pearce has also been concerned that, particularly in recent tournaments, some starlets have chosen to go on holiday rather than represent the under-21s.
Some get a taste of life upstairs with the seniors and do not want to head back downstairs to the under-21s. Some club managers use a player’s senior cap to dissuade them from returning to the under-21s. Some use summertime for player operations.

“You take 17 players out of the Italian squad and let’s see the result last night, you know?
"You’ve got to understand I could have named you 13 players that could have been here. I’ve had two players suspended, Tom Ince and Danny Rose, and two injured, Wilfried Zaha and Henri Lansbury, so that’s 17 players.’’
The injured include Luke Shaw, Jack Wilshere, Raheem Sterling, Callum McManaman, Martin Kelly, Gary Gardner, Will Hughes, Kyle Walker and Tom Carroll.
Andros Townsend was banned for gambling misdemeanours. Phil Jones, Danny Welbeck and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain travelled to Brazil for the seniors’ friendly.
Pearce chose not to pick Jack Rodwell, who then went to Rio with Roy Hodgson.
Oxlade-Chamberlain should have expanded his tournament experience by reporting for under-21 duty.
Four of Norway’s senior squad have rushed back to be in contention for Saturday’s game against England.
“Fifteen of their players have Norway caps,’’ sighed Pearce, who could have done with some or all of the Rio quartet.
“I don’t think that was ever going to be the case,’’ said Pearce. “We have a different structure in our country.
“Foreign players have better game-management skills than we do. It’s all age groups, and I include the seniors in that, with regard to game-management, that’s the big thing we need to learn.
"The Italian get their noses in front and they think instinctively, ‘We keep possession of the ball’. You learn that in tournaments.’’
Pearce talks about the youngsters with Hodgson, “who has first dibs and rightly so”. Injuries and suspensions kick in. So does apathy.
“There are one or two players who do not want to give their summers up, whichever way you look at it, to go and represent their country,” said Pearce.
It is such an attitude that has made the FA think about mandatory call-ups.
Spain, France and Germany have shown the art of qualifying and winning tournaments. “You qualify with your best players,” said Pearce. “You take your best players to tournaments. That is the only way you will have a hope of being successful.


“The statistics back that up. We have done a study over the last 10 years. In that time, only Spain surpass us in terms of qualification for tournaments, from under-17 level to the seniors.
"But when you flip it on its head and ask how many of our top 50 players playing in the senior squad now have tournament experience before they get there, we finish second bottom of the group.’’


The study involved the top seven teams in Europe plus Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Mexico.

“The statistics are there. It is whether you think it doesn’t matter, we will just turn up and try to win a World Cup or do you want to put the building blocks in place?”

You win nothing without kids developed properly. The building blocks involve tournament experience, reducing the nerve factor that follows England like a persistent stray, acquiring knowledge of differing styles, acclimatising to different conditions and playing surfaces, even dealing with homesickness as the current England captain, Steven Gerrard, had to at Euro 2000.
Pearce had 20 caps before Italia 90 “but nothing prepared me for stepping out into the pressure that came my way’’. He told himself, ‘this can’t be right’.
“It is a pathway I do not want young players to tread,” Pearce added. “I want them to get that experience of tournaments before they step out on to that stage.
"You only have to look at the development of Theo Walcott. He went to the World Cup in 2006. Since then, he could have gone to two World Cups, two European Championships, three Under-21 European Championships, two Under-20 World Cups and an Olympic Games, age permitting. I think he has played only 5½ tournament matches in that period.
“We have to address that, so our brighter players, like Oxlade-Chamberlain, can get tournament experience – playing time – and don’t just go to them.”
Pearce underlined his point by praising Danny Rose, who returns from suspension against Norway.
“This is his third tournament, which is fantastic for him in terms of experience. He’s got 25 caps to his name, a senior cap, he’s got the tools to step up into the seniors.’’
Rose and the rest of the players went to the beach with their families yesterday and had a barbecue at their Netanya base. Pearce hopes Zaha will be fit for tomorrow


There is a lot of truth to what he says. Yesterday's Germany V Holland game - the Dutch team were vastly more experienced in terms of caps won, and why they are likely to fit rather seamlessly into the senior squad over the next few years given their tournament experience. Much of Germany's side has already transitioned into the senior side and like England has left them shorter than perhaps they should have been for this tournament (although at least their rookies look mostly decent).

Not only are we dealing with a system where our young players aren't getting the same level of skills training, they are also not getting anywhere near the level of tournament experience they should be. It's all well and good kids like Walcott got plenty of experience playing one off international qualifiers during the year, but playing in summer tournaments where games come quick and fast and spending long periods away from home is a totally different beast.
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debaser

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by debaser on Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:29 pm

wonder what strongest U21 team England could have for this tournament if everyone available. Something like:

Butland
Jenkinson-Caulker-Jones-Rose
Wilshere-Henderson-Ox
Zaha-Welbeck-Sterling

?
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:36 pm

there is a feeling that once a player is capped for the senior side he is suddenly too good for the U21's. Danny Welbeck, Jack Rodwell, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Phil Jones - these guys aren't regulars for their clubs but are too cool for this tournament. Wilshere, Sterling, Townsend, McManaman and Kyle Walker wouldn't have been available anyway.

Most of it is David Bentley's fault, but I think it would be helpful if they showed these sorts of tournaments on terrestrial television, which could give the competition a credibility that has a knock on effect on players attitudes. If the competition could be marketed to the public better, then suddenly you have fewer lame withdrawals.
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Kroos

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Kroos on Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:59 pm

Why England’s U21 failure doesn’t matter

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/jim-white/why-england-u21-failure-doesn-t-matter-135748652.html


Which is nonsense. If they are good enough now to play for the seniors, sending Welbeck, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Jones out to Israel would be pointless. They are already full internationals, so what are they going to learn playing for the U21s? Finding out how to play against opponents not quite as good as the ones they will face in the World Cup qualifiers: is that really the most sensible use of their time? With rather important matches to come for their country in the autumn, it might be more expedient to give them a decent summer of rest and recuperation.

Erm
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:33 pm

Kroos wrote: what are they going to learn playing for the U21s?

they are going to learn how to play with their peers, Gerrard and Lampard will have to retire eventually.

More importantly, the other U21 players will improve by playing with better players, as well as developing an understanding.
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:06 pm

Kroos wrote:Why England’s U21 failure doesn’t matter

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/jim-white/why-england-u21-failure-doesn-t-matter-135748652.html


Which is nonsense. If they are good enough now to play for the seniors, sending Welbeck, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Jones out to Israel would be pointless. They are already full internationals, so what are they going to learn playing for the U21s? Finding out how to play against opponents not quite as good as the ones they will face in the World Cup qualifiers: is that really the most sensible use of their time? With rather important matches to come for their country in the autumn, it might be more expedient to give them a decent summer of rest and recuperation.

Erm

This is sadly the belief of many in England. that in these tournaments, all these players are learning is how to play 'opponents not quite as good as the ones they will face in the World Cup qualifiers' Rolling Eyes

Anyone remember how the English players apparently went out of their minds with boredom in South Africa? As if the experience of playing in a tournament held over an extended period of time, in different conditions, players learning to interact together, learning about different styles of football, pitches, discipline etc isn't a useful education. Nah, far better they get their annual holiday to Faliraki and learn how to roast willing young teens in hotel rooms Ale
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bluenine

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by bluenine on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:31 pm

Disco Benny wrote:"You only have to look at the development of Theo Walcott. He went to the World Cup in 2006. Since then, he could have gone to two World Cups, two European Championships, three Under-21 European Championships, two Under-20 World Cups and an Olympic Games, age permitting. I think he has played only 5½ tournament matches in that period.
“We have to address that, so our brighter players, like Oxlade-Chamberlain, can get tournament experience – playing time – and don’t just go to them.”

I am not sure about this. If someone is busy with the senior NT, why should they prefer the U21s? Sure, if you didn't get a call up for the senior side, then Pearce has a point.

For example for Italy, Balotelli, El Shaarawy and De Sciglio got a call for the senior side, and the NT does have dibs. Why would they leave that and go to the U21s? Pearce needs to have a joint strategy with Hodgson. For example, Prandelli released Verratti and Destro from the senior team, because the would have been on the bench anyways. Here at U21, they will get a lot of playing time and that bodes well for their prep for the WC.

But one thing definitely different is that in Italy the younger players are very keen to play for the Azzurrini - its their chance to show off their talent, and the Azzurrini are known to produce stars of the future. Most of the greatest Italian players of recent time have graduated from the U21 side into the NT. It helps not just in terms of tournament experience, but also in terms of playing with each other. For example the great Buffon-Nesta-Cannavaro combination came together in the 1996 Euro U21 which Italy won. Pirlo-Gattuso were together in the wining team of Euro U21 in 2000. If this transition is not working for England, then the FA needs to address that. However, some of the fault lies with Pearce-Hodgson as well. If Hodgson makes it clear that he intends to use the U21s as a "scouting" and training ground for the NT, I am sure less players would have been "injured" for this championship.
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Fey

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Fey on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:09 pm

Axeslammer wrote:
Fey wrote:In the 2nd half perhaps! But that is more to do with the fact that the midfield got totally overrun. Wouldnt have happened with Clasie on.

Bruno Martins Indi first half pass accuracy - 97%
Stefan De Vrij first half pass accuracy - 95%


Who cares about pass accuracy ?! Are you an Ajacied all of a sudden ?

They constantly (1st *and* 2nd half) mismarked their man !

Fer for strength on midfield is a good idea indeed Ale

It matters a lot! Winning this tourny means fuck all if all you do is outmuscle and outpace the opponent. We already seen that in 2006 and 2007. Hence I prefer the German way, just selecting players that have yet to prove themselves. Instead of picking players that already made the debut in the senior squad and did fuck all for the qualifiers. Cause the point of a U-21 team is educating players to become good enough to make it to the senior squad. It makes no sense to play people like Strootman or Maher who have more caps in the Senior squad then in the U-21 squad.
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:17 pm

England 0-1 Norway

England battered Norway for 14 minutes, Norway's only attack results in a corner which is eventually scrambled in.

Horrible defending, Henderson appealing for a foul when he should have been attacking the ball.

Pearce picked the wrong team, Wickham would have been a much better option against this parked bus than a half-fit Zaha.
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:34 pm

England 0-2 Norway

embarrassing for England.
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:38 pm

Fucking hell !!! Wickham and Sordell on at HT for Zaha/Ince/Redmond and Lowe/Henderson.
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:44 pm

Weird game, given that nothing so far to suggest Norway are better other than the scoreline. Just two slack moments of defending.

England have beaten Norway 5 times in a row at this level in qualifiers , its another example of how tournament football is a different beast- would help if we had some experience in there, Norway recalled 4 players from their senior squad for this.
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:48 pm

Caulker headed goal ruled offside. Not looking good for the young lambs.
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:51 pm

Pearce got his excuses in early before this tournament, but it's not as though he's had to raid his local school for players, and he's misused the resources he has.

Delfouneso and Chalobah should have started the first game, Wickham should have started this one. Jason Lowe is a bit pointless.

Brian2468

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Brian2468 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:55 pm

Lots of good info posted on here of late, we are in denial and in pain as a football nation. Sad pirat
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Isco Benny

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Isco Benny on Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:57 pm

Pearce's record is what is keeping him in the job - faultless qualifying record, then a final and semi final in his first two tournies.

Last euros two years ago though was a wake up call, we were awful tactically - Mancienne playing as a midfielder.....

Seems same issue this time around.

To be fair, he isn't playing a 442 and is an advocate of the continental 433, but seems he can't get the players comfortable playing it.
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Kroos

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Kroos on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:00 pm

just switched the TV on

2:0 norway

SERIOUS Yikes
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:09 pm

fucking hell

3-0
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:13 pm

PENALTY Crazy
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:14 pm

England 1-3 Norway

very good penalty

Craig Dawson tugged off on a corner, and steps up to convert the pen himself.

GAME ON Grr
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:16 pm

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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:24 pm

How many shots can Shelvey have in 24 minutes?
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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by bluenine on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:21 pm

Great game by Italy (4-0 win over Isreal). Gabbiadini is back to his scoring ways, great game by him. Inter back 5 get a second clean sheet. Saponara also had a good game.

Thank God Insigne's injury is not serious, Italy have already lost Marrone for the tournament.

Bring on the semis.
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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:37 pm

bluenine wrote:Great game by Italy (4-0 win over Isreal). Gabbiadini is back to his scoring ways, great game by him. Inter back 5 get a second clean sheet. Saponara also had a good game.

Thank God Insigne's injury is not serious, Italy have already lost Marrone for the tournament.

Bring on the semis.

Florenzi was very good too. Saponara (now plays for us Very Happy) was superb.

The tempo of the Azzurrini was incredible. Very exciting.

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Fey

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Re: U-21 European Championship 2013

Post by Fey on Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:13 am

lol!

It aint even three days old and England are already out. Still, Norway are pretty decent I guess. Kicked out France afterall. But Italy really impressed me, totally destroyed the jews. But, let's see what they can do against the more decent teams out there. So far hardly any suprises. Perhaps Russia to upset Holland, they look pretty damn good as well.

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