is the world ready for a WPOTY from the Bundesliga ?

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debaser

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Re: is the world ready for a WPOTY from the Bundesliga ?

Post by debaser on Tue May 14, 2013 4:56 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:
debaser wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:"Decades" might be overdoing it, but it was the dominant league in the 70s and most of the 80s, before the Serie A took over in the late 80s and 90s. But during that period, the Bundesliga was without the doubt the strongest European league. Even top English players like Keegan played in Germany back then.

first half of 80s was clearly England strongest, til the ban came in.

Compare the 80s records:
England: 4 European cups, 2 Uefa cups, 1 Cup winners cup
Germany: 1 European cup, 2 Uefa cups, 0 Cup winners cups

and that's with English clubs not playing from 86-89.

Germany was top from about 73-80, going off trophies. hell, Keegan moved back to England in 1980 Razz

Strength in depth. It's true that the Bundesliga should have won more titles, especially Bayern are to blame for this in the 1980s, but the reason why Germany continued to remain the #1 rated UEFA country was the consistency and strength in depth. For example, the 1980 UEFA cup final was between Mönchengladbach and Frankfurt.

Imagine if there was an 8 year spell where German clubs won 7 European cups and English clubs won 1. And that the top German club met the top English club 6 times in EC semis and finals in that spell and won every time. Would you not think that suggested Germany was the strongest league?

That's 1977-1984 with the countries reversed.

Strength in depth is one thing, but it's surely outweighed by dominance in the biggest tournament.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: is the world ready for a WPOTY from the Bundesliga ?

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue May 14, 2013 5:00 pm

No argument there. The interesting question for me is though why didn't we see this English dominance on the club level translate to the international level during that period? Fact of the matter is that the English national team was much stronger in the 1990s, an era when the EPL was arguably the weakest. And don't forget that back then, moving abroad was much less common, so most players remained in their domestic leagues.

The German international record during the 70s and 80s was alright.

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Balack was Coward

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Re: is the world ready for a WPOTY from the Bundesliga ?

Post by Balack was Coward on Tue May 14, 2013 5:19 pm

Kroos I don't think our (Barcas) set up is outdated. In fact we don't have the same set up as we did at our peak under Guardiola( We don't press like we used to etc) and a few of our players have declined. I don't think the likes of Xavi and Iniesta can only play in this system either, for Spain Xavi plays as an AM with different responsibility's than he has had for Barca and Iniesta plays out wide. In the 2008 Euros Iniesta played as an interiore in a 4 - 2 - 2 - 2 formation. Both where also excellent under Rijkaard in a more direct system than now, the main reason they where even better under Pep is because they hit their peak.

I can't be bothered arguing about who's better between Spanish and German players anymore. There is nothing more to say.


Last edited by Jonah and the Whale on Tue May 14, 2013 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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debaser

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Re: is the world ready for a WPOTY from the Bundesliga ?

Post by debaser on Tue May 14, 2013 5:19 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:No argument there. The interesting question for me is though why didn't we see this English dominance on the club level translate to the international level during that period? Fact of the matter is that the English national team was much stronger in the 1990s, an era when the EPL was arguably the weakest. And don't forget that back then, moving abroad was much less common, so most players remained in their domestic leagues.

The German international record during the 70s and 80s was alright.


dunno really, lots of factors probably.

70s was a disaster for England, didn't qualify for 4 WCs and ECs in succession, so there was probably hangover from that into the 80s with lack of tournament experience etc. Whereas Germany had hugely successful 70s and built on that.

'86 England maybe unlucky to come up against Maradona in the QF rather than the final.

I guess another thing is that all the good English clubs of that era then had reasonable sized Scottish contingent. Liverpool were strongest club side - if likes of Dalglish, Hansen, Souness had been playing for England too, might've better replicated club success internationally.

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