La Roja

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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:16 pm

Interesting to see the training match XIs. The "theoretical" starters were: Casillas, Azpilicueta, Piqué, Ramos, Jordi Alba, Busquets, Silva, Xavi, Cesc, Pedro, Torres

So no Diego Costa, no Iniesta and no doble pivote! Of course Del Bosque is probably just trying to mess with the poor Dutchies' minds. I would be shocked if he did not play Busquets and Alonso from the start but I guess we'll see. In fact, I would not be surprised if he plays Cesc as false 9 either.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: La Roja

Post by mongrel hawk on Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:51 pm

I hope we won't have to face each other in the 2nd round. The Confed final was great but now it's another story, and Spain is obviously much better than Chile and Holland. I fear Spain in the 2nd round.
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:02 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:I hope we won't have to face each other in the 2nd round. The Confed final was great but now it's another story, and Spain is obviously much better than Chile and Holland. I fear Spain in the 2nd round.

It would be a shame for the two to meet so early. Spain-Brazil would make a great final.
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:22 pm

this game against holland will likely be spains most difficult, van gaal is a tactical mastermind
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mongrel hawk

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Re: La Roja

Post by mongrel hawk on Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:14 pm

Jaime wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:I hope we won't have to face each other in the 2nd round. The Confed final was great but now it's another story, and Spain is obviously much better than Chile and Holland. I fear Spain in the 2nd round.

It would be a shame for the two to meet so early. Spain-Brazil would make a great final.

True. Hope we both finish 1st (with Diego Costa as a reserve).
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:02 pm

Another practice match. Looks like the backline is set: Azpilicueta, Piqué, Ramos, Jordi Alba with Casillas in goal.

This time Del Bosque aligned the usual Busquets-Alonso doble pivote with Xavi in his normal free role. The attackers this time were Iniesta, Pedro, and Diego Costa. So it seems like the real doubts for the XI against the Netherlands are Silva or Pedro and then whether it will be an out and out '9' (Costa or Torres) or a false '9' (Cesc).

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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:32 pm

Lots of second guessing going on with regard to the squad. Azpilicueta had such a good season at Cheslea but looking really out of his depth in the first game. Taking Carvajal too would have injected some much needed pace into the side.

Really wish that Del Bosque would have left either Cazorla or Mata (Cazorla for me) at home and brought someone like Muniain. Would have been nice to be able to go to a team like this at some point, either to start or as a plan B:

-------------------Casillas

Carvajal-----S. Ramos-----Pique-----J. Alba

--------------Alonso----Busquets

-------------------Iniesta

Pedrito------------?????------------Muniain

You could even drop Alonso for Koke or Silva. Ah well.

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Luis

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Re: La Roja

Post by Luis on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:37 pm

Are too many cooks spoiling the broth for Spain or is the whole Costa thing the problem? He's not used to playing with his team-mates and he's going to get sent off in this WC probably. Should have signed for Brazil, would have been a better fit.

Casillas was always going to be a shambles as well, his confidence must be shattered.
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:49 pm

Luis wrote:Are too many cooks spoiling the broth for Spain or is the whole Costa thing the problem? He's not used to playing with his team-mates and he's going to get sent off in this WC probably. Should have signed for Brazil, would have been a better fit.

Casillas was always going to be a shambles as well, his confidence must be shattered.

I mentioned it somewhere but for me there are two things. Xavi is officially past it (hence he's playing in Qatar next year). He was the essence of the "tiki taka". It's not that the style is outdated per se, it's that the fulcrum of the team has withered away. He always set the rhythm (which has become slower and slower over time) and he also used to be able to play a final ball. He's now mostly a passenger. He doesn't defend, he doesn't create. He doesn't really do anything. It's the same reason for Barcelona's decline.

Diego Costa, yes, but the strikers in general. In 2010 Villa was at his best so even though Torres was on the way down already there was a guy who would get the goals. Villa is also now past it. Torres offers nothing (and has done for quite some time). And Diego Costa doesn't know what to do. Beyond that, Negredo hadn't played in months. Soldado is rubbish. The big error by Del Bosque, for me, was to not take Llorente. He's the only Spanish striker that had been playing and been in form over the last 6 months.
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debaser

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Re: La Roja

Post by debaser on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:28 pm

any chance Casillas gets dropped?
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:30 pm

I think Villa should start in this game, he knows the system more than costa and is better than torres, even if he is past it
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:13 pm

Xavi is dropped!
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:14 pm

debaser wrote:any chance Casillas gets dropped?

Probably not - Reina is a joke, he's only there to MC the victory parades. De Gea, well, I don't know if it is a good idea to throw him into the fire I think he's only ever played once for Spain.
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:49 pm

So, end of the road for Casillas, Xavi, Torres, Villa, Reina, Alonso. No point in continuing to call marginal players like Mata, Cazorla, Albiol, Juanfran either.

Will be interesting to see if there is a future, after all the fuss, for Diego Costa. He has been so very poor.
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:52 pm

end of and era. no barca no spain  lol! 

time to bring in some young players and start again
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:57 pm

messiah wrote:end of and era. no barca no spain  lol! 

time to bring in some young players and start again

How is it, then, that Spain didn't win in 1994 or 1998 when 9 from 22 were from Barcelona?

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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:01 pm

Jaime wrote:
messiah wrote:end of and era. no barca no spain  lol! 

time to bring in some young players and start again

How is it, then, that Spain didn't win in 1994 or 1998 when 9 from 22 were from Barcelona?


how many were from madrid, maybe 1 too many.
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:03 pm

messiah wrote:
Jaime wrote:
messiah wrote:end of and era. no barca no spain  lol! 

time to bring in some young players and start again

How is it, then, that Spain didn't win in 1994 or 1998 when 9 from 22 were from Barcelona?


how many were from madrid, maybe 1 too many.

Enjoy supporting Argentina the rest of the WC. Ale
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:04 pm

time for isco,thiago and koke to step up. iniesta has one more cup in him then thats it
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blutgraetsche

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Re: La Roja

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:12 am

As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:00 am

blutgraetsche wrote:As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.

Meh, they won the Euros in 2012 without him. He definitely had a never say die attitude and was a good defender but if they are in form Sergio Ramos and Pique are just as good.
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:00 am

messiah wrote:time for isco,thiago and koke to step up. iniesta has one more cup in him then thats it

He really doesn't. In 2018 Iniesta will be the same age as Xavi is now. He should not be part of the national team after the next Euros.
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:10 am

Jaime wrote:
messiah wrote:time for isco,thiago and koke to step up. iniesta has one more cup in him then thats it

He really doesn't. In 2018 Iniesta will be the same age as Xavi is now. He should not be part of the national team after the next Euros.

Sorry i meant the next euros, after that he should walk away
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:11 am

Jaime wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.

Meh, they won the Euros in 2012 without him. He definitely had a never say die attitude and was a good defender but if they are in form Sergio Ramos and Pique are just as good.

in there dreams

note i included the barca defender.

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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:17 am

messiah wrote:
Jaime wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:As it wasn't yet mentioned: both La Roja and Barcelona missed Puyol's leading ability. It was him who made the difference in 2010 against us, for example.

Meh, they won the Euros in 2012 without him. He definitely had a never say die attitude and was a good defender but if they are in form Sergio Ramos and Pique are just as good.

in there dreams

note i included the barca defender.


The national team never lost a game that Marchena started. Marchena > Puyol. Of course I'm joking but look maybe as individual defenders, Puyol was the best but in terms of a pairing Ramos-Pique was as good as any that have featured during this run for Spain. The defense did not fall apart without Puyol in 2012.
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:20 am

For the next generation, I think it's key to keep an eye on the recovery/return of Jese and the development of Deulofeu. Spain have been horrible in attack and those two are players who know how to turn dominant buildup into attacking threat. If they can come good, they'll be unbelievably crucial in giving Spain some edge. I'd love to see Jese in a central role roaming around as a predatory and skilled goalscorer while Deulofeu rampages down the right flank. The two have great chemistry as well.

As for midfield, I think it's pretty clear the direction to take. Koke, herrera Thiago, Iniesta, Busi,Isco and Javi Martinez should be the core for the near future. The likes of and Oliver are more long term. Iturraspe should be looked at as well.

the defense should be good for the euros, but after that it will be time to bed in new CB, fullbacks is no worry i could list a bunch of them. CB on the other hand is pretty light. if Laporte were spanish they would be pretty much set. but as of now they have martinez and bartra both of which have talent but will never be world class, like ramos,pique and puyol were when at their best. but given how long both have played together, they should have fantastic chemistry
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:21 am

Also, this Javi Martinez as centre back experiment needs to end. He has the physical qualities to play as a centre back but not the instincts.
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:21 am

For the next generation, I think it's key to keep an eye on the recovery/return of Jese and the development of Deulofeu. Spain have been horrible in attack and those two are players who know how to turn dominant buildup into attacking threat. If they can come good, they'll be unbelievably crucial in giving Spain some edge. I'd love to see Jese in a central role roaming around as a predatory and skilled goalscorer while Deulofeu rampages down the right flank. The two have great chemistry as well.

As for midfield, I think it's pretty clear the direction to take. Koke, herrera Thiago, Iniesta, Busi,Isco and Javi Martinez should be the core for the near future. The likes of and Oliver are more long term. Iturraspe should be looked at as well.

the defense should be good for the euros, but after that it will be time to bed in new CB, fullbacks is no worry i could list a bunch of them. CB on the other hand is pretty light. if Laporte were spanish they would be pretty much set. but as of now they have martinez and bartra both of which have talent but will never be world class, like ramos,pique and puyol were when at their best. but given how long both have played together, they should have fantastic chemistry
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messiah

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Re: La Roja

Post by messiah on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:28 am

the future of spain is still very bright, del bosque just wanted to give is old's one more chance at greatness, if he had started the transition after the world cup, which he hinted at, they would have gone far in the wc

all the 30+ players need to just bow out gracefully

villa,torres,xavi,alonso,iker need to step aside

no more room for the good but no exceptional like mata as well

give the core of the U21 side a chance to prove themselves
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Jaime

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Re: La Roja

Post by Jaime on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:29 am

messiah wrote:For the next generation, I think it's key to keep an eye on the recovery/return of Jese and the development of Deulofeu. Spain have been horrible in attack and those two are players who know how to turn dominant buildup into attacking threat. If they can come good, they'll be unbelievably crucial in giving Spain some edge. I'd love to see Jese in a central role roaming around as a predatory and skilled goalscorer while Deulofeu rampages down the right flank. The two have great chemistry as well.

This is true. I like the idea of a front three of Muniain-Jese-Deulofeu eventually. There are some others like Paco Alcacer and Morata who could also turn out to be good options but Jese and Deulofeu are the ones that have the talent to really be among the best players in the world.

As for midfield, I think it's pretty clear the direction to take. Koke, herrera Thiago, Iniesta, Busi,Isco and Javi Martinez should be the core for the near future. The likes of and Oliver are more long term.  Iturraspe should be looked at as well.

The one you are missing is Ruben Pardo. He should really be in the mix too. And Cesc as AM should certainly still be an option. Maybe even Saul Niguez.

the defense should be good for the euros, but after that it will be time to bed in new CB, fullbacks is no worry i could list a bunch of them. CB on the other hand is pretty light. if Laporte were spanish they would be pretty much set. but as of now they have martinez and bartra both of which have talent but will never be world class, like ramos,pique and puyol were when at their best. but given how long both have played together, they should have fantastic chemistry

Mikel San Jose should get an opportunity imo. I don't think it matters if individually they are world class or not to me it is more how they function as a partnership and how they compliment one another.

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