La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

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blutgraetsche

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:28 pm

It's a sad state of things if you have to hope for an injury so Löw finally realises that Khedira shouldn't start for Germany anymore.

Get well soon Sami.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Xavier on Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:14 pm

Everything that I have been reading about Khedira's injury has been saying that it is a light injury, merely a 'sore knee' or whatever...
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Super Progress

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Super Progress on Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:01 am


'La Liga is boring' - Simeone slams Barca & Madrid domination

The Atletico Madrid coach was scathing in how he sees the season panning out and reiterated that the distribution of TV money must change

Atletico Madrid coach Diego Simeone has branded La Liga "a boring championship" due to Barcelona and Real Madrid's domination.

Los Colchoneros finished third in Spain last term to only the Clasico duo and capped a brilliant campaign with triumph in the Copa del Rey against their city rivals.

However, when asked whether his side could muster a title challenge this time out, the Argentine was quick to lament the two giants' domestic dominance.

"No, I absolutely do not," the 43-year-old told reporters. "Madrid and Barcelona play a different league. This is a boring championship.

"We'll have to wait for television distribution to change because now the league is only between two teams."

Two of Atletico's next three games are against Barca - who conquered Levante 7-0 on Sunday - in the Supercopa de Espana, either side of a clash with Rayo Vallecano.

I think people will be surprised at how little of a difference tv money will make but we will see. Either way I think the decline will continue but the league will continue to have a good reputation because the Big 2 can hide just how much of a ghost town much of the rest of the league is becoming.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:17 am

Haha Cerezo will probably sack him for saying that!

Look the money makes a difference I don't see how anyone can deny it. This is an unprecedented exodus of Spanish stars and foreign players who were based in Spanish clubs leaving in their primes to play in the Premiership, Serie A or the Bundesliga. And the two reasons are, clubs abroad can pay higher wages than the average la liga club and if there is not room for you in Real Madrid or Barcelona there is no hope to ever win anything apart from maybe the Copa del Rey.

And look what Malaga did in one year when they had an injection of funds. They built a CL calibre team. Of course it turned out to be all smoke and mirrors but think about what they could have done had it been sustained for 3 or 4 or 5 years.

Atletico is closer than anyone and then still finished 11 points behind a pretty shit RM in third place.

It's a shame. But it's the reality of the situation.
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messiah

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by messiah on Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:08 am

The tv money wont make much difference unless its epl type money, if the current deal increases by 300m each team would get a extra 1500000. If it us share equally,

If they get 1b and it gets share equally(not going to happen, the first option is more likely) every team would get 50m, which isnt much of a increase for the teams capable of challenging barca and madrid for the title, since that all people care about, that would only make the big two weaker in europe are force them to do something drastic,to make up the lost in revenues.

Truth is the teams capable of challenging have been poorly run(sevilla and atletico) a bit of bad luck and poor decisios(valencia) are wont sign players out sign of a certain ethnic ground.

The amount of money sevilla made from sales in the early 2000's.
Stupid spending by atletico.
If it weren't for a shadely land deal Madrid would be fucked too.

Only barca and bilboa have more are less worked things out themself.

Thr way the clubs are run is what needs to be fix are it will need alot of money to paper over the cracks.

The new money will just enable clubs to pay better wages and buy slightly better players
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:28 am

messiah wrote:The tv money wont make much difference unless its epl type money, if the current deal increases by 300m each team would get a extra 1500000. If it us share equally,

If they get 1b and it gets share equally(not going to happen, the first option is more likely) every team  would get 50m, which isnt much of a increase for the teams capable of challenging barca and madrid for the title, since that all people care about, that would only make the big two weaker in europe are force them to do something drastic,to make up the lost in revenues.

Truth is the teams capable of challenging have been poorly run(sevilla and atletico) a bit of bad luck and poor decisios(valencia) are wont sign players out sign of a certain ethnic ground.

The amount of money sevilla made from sales in the early 2000's.
Stupid spending by atletico.
If it weren't for a shadely land deal Madrid would be fucked too.

Only barca and bilboa have more are less worked things out themself.

Thr way the clubs are run is what needs to be fix are it will need alot of money to paper over the cracks.

The new money will just enable clubs to pay better wages and buy slightly better players
lol!

Possibly the funniest thin ever posted on this board.
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messiah

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by messiah on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:51 am

Whats funny about it, we didn't have a land deal to save us, just a few things here and there.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:23 am

messiah wrote:Whats funny about it, we didn't have a land deal to save us, just a few things here and there.
Try multiple land deals, getting bailed out by la Caixa, shady deeals with TV3, etc etc etc Ale
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blutgraetsche

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:18 am

@messiah

The point is that if it keeps on going on like this, you'll have no competition to begin with, as all other La Liga clubs have to sell their players to survive, not to mention their inability to pay them appropriate wages on time. A fairer TV distribution model wouldn't close the huge financial gap to the big two dramatically, that's true, but it would provide the opportunity of a more sustainable business model to the other clubs. If those clubs make use of that opportunity and get their finances in order, get proper management, is a whole different issue. But as it is, even the best management won't be able to get them out of their mess, as there is minimal income and huge debts to deal with.
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Super Progress

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Super Progress on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:09 am

I'm just surprised that people are putting so much hope in TV money as being the savior. If the league wanted to clean up and actually make it a decent league they could make it much more easy for foreigners to buy Spanish clubs for example. I personally could care less about rich people injecting huge sums of money into a nothing club a la Man City. Another option is for the league to mandate some financial rules to live by for the clubs.
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messiah

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by messiah on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:47 am

@Blut, i agree with everything you said, but your coming from a rational and realistic stand point, but too much in this debate, individuals dont think out the matter fully, and just boils it down to more money means more teams can challenge barca and Madrid.

It often comes from people who sight the epl as the gold standard, as if its a balance tv deal that enables there to be so many teams at the top, when in reality it has more to do with, its global popularity and most teams being relatively solvent, both making teams there attractive to outside investors, that combine with the relative ease of buying clubs in england, but tv money doesn't mean much to the owners of city and chelsea. They are in it for the sell on value and the potential super league.

But before the big buy outs, and with a equal tv deal, it was just man utd and arsenal, and without it would still be just the two.

But, a equal deal would help clubs remain solvent, which is where the debate. At now among the Spanish clubs.


110%

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by 110% on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:57 am

blutgraetsche wrote:@messiah

The point is that if it keeps on going on like this, you'll have no competition to begin with, as all other La Liga clubs have to sell their players to survive, not to mention their inability to pay them appropriate wages on time. A fairer TV distribution model wouldn't close the huge financial gap to the big two dramatically, that's true, but it would provide the opportunity of a more sustainable business model to the other clubs. If those clubs make use of that opportunity and get their finances in order, get proper management, is a whole different issue. But as it is, even the best management won't be able to get them out of their mess, as there is minimal income and huge debts to deal with.
<Ale> 

Professor at barca uni says they have 5 years to change or the league will kill itself:
http://www.playthegame.org/news/detailed/collective-la-liga-tv-rights-deal-may-change-financial-balance-5600.html

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by 110% on Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:39 pm

Super Mourinho wrote:I'm just surprised that people are putting so much hope in TV money as being the savior. If the league wanted to clean up and actually make it a decent league they could make it much more easy for foreigners to buy Spanish clubs for example. I personally could care less about rich people injecting huge sums of money into a nothing club a la Man City. Another option is for the league to mandate some financial rules to live by for the clubs.
Even if there were a couple of billionaires who wanted to try, I doubt it would help the rest of the clubs so much, although it might keep more players in Spain. The other clubs aren't going to compete for the league, but on a match-basis they would at least have a chance to compete if they didn't lose their best players every season. The winner of la liga in the last few years has won 32 out of the 38 league matches. A few years ago they were around the 27-28 mark, which is the level where the other leagues' champions are or even less (e.g. Juve). So it is getting progressively easier for Barca and real madrid to win their games. Without any change it might just come down to the el clasicos only, and the league will be fucked as a competition, because who is going to pay for the TV rights to a league where only 2 matches matter?

A potential solution with all the clubs in financial difficulty is that they go under and you have 10 teams in the league and barca and madrid can play each other multiple times/season. They do anyway in all the cups, but we can have an el clasico every month Wink

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Super Progress

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Super Progress on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:04 pm

You don't have to convince me that the Spanish league stinks. I have been saying it for a while now. I think only Messiah and Barcelona fans want to pretend the league is better than it is. Although I also see some Real Madrid fans saying at times and especially when they won the league.

I don't think there is any miracle solution here. The days of Spanish league being great ended around 2004 when England started to take the best players and when the Spanish top(Real Madrid, Valencia, Deportivo) took a plunge with only Real Madrid bouncing back. The quality of managers declined as well. I don't think the league will be as good as the English(still the best) for some time because the local economic problems in Spain are likely to shackle the clubs as well. At best we can hope for rich owners, a new tv deal and pushing some financial standards. On the flip side talent is still continuing to flourish so that can outweigh a little.
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messiah

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by messiah on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:21 pm

Lets not mix my name with any of yout crap are barca fans name, myself and kas have been saying for a while that we cant play against the best in europe like we do against spanish teams has the difference is class his huge, the amount of time i was screaming that at tito i dont know.

Epl the best in dream land, la liga teams have still been getting the better of them in cl and el.

All i say is a new tv deal won't make the league more competitive, too many other things need fixing
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:41 pm

So maybe there are other factors, but without a more equitable TV deal won't make the more competitive by itself but without one the league will never be competitive again.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:42 pm

Well apart from sheikhs and russians...
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:52 pm

'Competitive'? Again, it's about survival. First you need to be able to survive before you can even think about becoming competitive again. Basically, Real Madrid and Barcelona's individual TV deals are literally killing the competition because they are left with the crumbs on the table.

The only reason why La Liga is still doing reasonably well in Europe is the good structures on the youth level and huge number of quality players coming through. But if the trend continues and most of them move abroad to greener pastures at an increasingly younger age, your league will become a feeder league, similar to Holland or Brazil from a few years ago. Real Madrid and Barcelona can't and won't sign every promising Spanish youngster themselves, even if all of them were good enough. They are global brands playing for a global audience.

Spain has the structures on the coaching and youth level but to due the dramatic inequality on the financial level, the league won't benefit from it in the long run because it will bleed dry. The backbone of every successful league should be domestic talent, yes, but only when you're able to keep most of the good talent at home your league truly benefits.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:59 pm

I understand this. Obviously, I am talking about the main long term objective.
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messiah

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by messiah on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:36 pm

When the league was competitive the big two was stilling getting more.
A tv deal wont let the valencia land sellable again, if that hadn't gone sour they would still be more are less what they were a few years back, a credible alternative, though some of the signs they made under soler i think, were total wastse.

For a tv deal to work, the entire league needs to be reorganized, and this is much more important than tv money, giving atletico and Valencia 10m more per season, while taking away some 70m from the big two will do jack for competitivenes, it will just help those teams be a bit more solvent, while barca and real could just sell the naming rights to there stadiums, put an additional sponsors on there shirt and get back the 70m they lost and still walk it.

Manage the league better, stupid shit like kick off times not bring known until a day are two before the games for example.

Cut the league to 18 teams, get rid of the second leg in the cup, waste of time and money, lesd games = more money saved=more money coming in

Institue debt limits as at percentage of incomr

Harsh penalty if teams go into admin

This one will not be like, but the government clears half the teams of the clubs, with certain conditions(the debt is the real issue)

Lastly split the thincreased amount of the new tv money equally, and keep doing this for at least three tv deals, then you splite the entire thing equally, this way ir has less impact on the big two, and the a.m and valencua's will get more this, everyone will, but instead of the bottom teams budget getting an increase of 25m+ and A.M just seeing a 8m increase,( they now get 42, if you share 1b 20 ways they get 50m, 300m 20 ways they get 15m.

Madrid and barca will also get just 115, but the transition of them will be much easier.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:54 pm

The teams that are relegated from the Premiership take in more TV money than Atletico Madrid, the third place team in Spain. And both Real Madrid and Barcelona take in almost double what the EPL champion makes off the TV money. Says it all really.

Of course it's not the only thing. Yes, the start times for some of the matches are ridiculous. Yes, there are plenty of corrupt fuckos that need to be kicked out. The debts for most clubs are through the roof. We know all of this.

But you have to start somewhere and I think a more equitable distribution of revenues from the TV deals would give some clubs a leg to stand on at least.
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messiah

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by messiah on Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:42 pm

Agreed but that alone wont work, needs to be more comprehensive,
Sharing the entire pie would help either, share thr increase is a better way, it would give the likes of a.m and Valencia more than they would get the other way around and ease the hit on barca and madrid.
Hope thats whaf they settle on and fix the other issues. Cause i love me some la liga.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:42 pm

Of course, there has to be a comprehensive solution.

But there are more well run clubs than people think. Real Sociedad, Betis (post Lopera), Villarreal, Espanyol, Getafe, Celta, etc. but they have no chance to keep their best players or sign top players. And at the end of the day, if the team doesn't have players - who is going to go to the stadium to watch? Probably a lot of people don't remember but in the late 90s a team like Celta Vigo had players like Valeri Karpin, Alexander Mostovoi, Mazinho, Haim Revivo, etc and they could make a good game against Real Madrid and Barcelona. FFS it wasn't that long ago that they qualified for the Champions League!

But all that is gone now. And it has to be rebuilt or like Blut says, it's just going to fade away and disappear and there will just be some sort of Euro Super League ffs.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Super Progress on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:44 pm

Jaime wrote:Of course, there has to be a comprehensive solution.

But there are more well run clubs than people think. Real Sociedad, Betis (post Lopera), Villarreal, Espanyol, Getafe, Celta, etc. but they have no chance to keep their best players or sign top players. And at the end of the day, if the team doesn't have players - who is going to go to the stadium to watch? Probably a lot of people don't remember but in the late 90s a team like Celta Vigo had players like Valeri Karpin, Alexander Mostovoi, Mazinho, Haim Revivo, etc and they could make a good game against Real Madrid and Barcelona. FFS it wasn't that long ago that they qualified for the Champions League!

But all that is gone now. And it has to be rebuilt or like Blut says, it's just going to fade away and disappear and there will just be some sort of Euro Super League ffs.
drunken 
I say abandon the rest and run off to a Super League.<Ale> 
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blutgraetsche

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:54 pm

That would be the final nail on the coffin of European football. Circus maximus.

Football is a lot more than just a sport or even commercial enterprise. It's tradition, culture and identity.
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messiah

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by messiah on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:56 pm

Its because teams like celta had those type ofplayers and living above there means why the fall the way the did.

A super league wilk happen regardless, how else will the billionaires make back their money and teams like real continue to grow thier revenues, no more land is being sold for 1m times it value anymore.

I mean seriously though, do you know how much the nfl makes in tv money conpared to the cl, considering the eu as a whole is richer than america and football is the worlds games, a team making 60m after winning the cl is a fucking joke, and the heads of the top clubs are seeing this.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:57 pm

messiah wrote:Its because teams like celta had those type ofplayers and living above there means why the fall the way the did.
At the time they were not living above their means.
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Super Progress on Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:50 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:That would be the final nail on the coffin of European football. Circus maximus.

Football is a lot more than just a sport or even commercial enterprise. It's tradition, culture and identity.
Doubt it
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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by Jaime on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:16 pm

VILLA MARAVILLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Atletico 1-0 Menos Que Un Club

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Re: La Liga 2013/14 Season Thread

Post by 110% on Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:56 pm

Super Mourinho wrote:
Jaime wrote:Of course, there has to be a comprehensive solution.

But there are more well run clubs than people think. Real Sociedad, Betis (post Lopera), Villarreal, Espanyol, Getafe, Celta, etc. but they have no chance to keep their best players or sign top players. And at the end of the day, if the team doesn't have players - who is going to go to the stadium to watch? Probably a lot of people don't remember but in the late 90s a team like Celta Vigo had players like Valeri Karpin, Alexander Mostovoi, Mazinho, Haim Revivo, etc and they could make a good game against Real Madrid and Barcelona. FFS it wasn't that long ago that they qualified for the Champions League!

But all that is gone now. And it has to be rebuilt or like Blut says, it's just going to fade away and disappear and there will just be some sort of Euro Super League ffs.
drunken 
I say abandon the rest and run off to a Super League.<Ale> 
A super league consisting of barca and real madrid? Don't they have that already, with a few training games thrown in.

Are the EPL and Bundesliga teams going to leave their leagues and their cash just because barca and real are in trouble?

I saw figures somewhere before that in Spain the tv companies were losing subscribers, so why do people keep making comments like in the next tv deal the increase should be shared differently. What increase? Why would they pay you more if the number of viewers is going down?


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