Real Madrid CF 2013/14

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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:12 pm

I don't expect Jese to be a great passer and I'm thinking more of his timidity when he receives the ball on the flank and generally doesn't go for anything special but just pass it backwards in a very safe manner. I think this is what he is refering too and I suggested that might well be the case before I saw that interview. By all means he is following the Ronaldo mould but I just hope he doesn't take it as far.
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messiah

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by messiah on Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:45 pm

Jaime wrote:Re: Jese - Of course his greatest attribute is his finishing. messiah underrates his dribbling, imo. And I think he is developing his other qualities. His ability to play the final pass is improving a lot I think. He actually has more assists than Iniesta, Xavi, Turan, Griezmann, etc. which is saying a lot given how few minutes he has played relative to those guys. He does not yet have the same kind of vision as Di Maria, for example, but he is a lot smarter in knowing when to play and when to move the ball (as you can see from the quotes). The best thing, for me, about Jese is his mentality though. He plays with guts and he isn't afraid. You don't score against all the big teams, in all the big stadiums, if you are mentally weak. In this way, he is a lot like Raul.

re: Illarra - I think it's really hard to judge him at this stage in his career with Real Madrid. He has not had a lot of continuity in the team. When he has played, he's never been bad even if he hasn't been brilliant. What I see is a central midfielder who rarely gives the ball away and is very disciplined tactically. Obviously the captain of team progress wouldn't rate someone who can keep possession. :wink:But look if it can take a player like Zidane or Modric a good 6 months to settle in to Real Madrid than I think it is not unusual that there might be a period of adaptation before we see the best of Illarra. He will always have the price tag hanging over his head which probably isn't fair but what can you do? I do think his range of passing can improve. He showed a lot more last year in la Real, but I agree there are times when he has a little more time and yet settles for a short pass when maybe he could really go for it.

yeah that's true, he reminds be a bit of a villa in his prime, and though it pains me to say this be cause he is a madridista SOB, i think he will break villa's record for the Spanish national team. the kid is a special talent, if fact i think he should be the starting cf for madrid in a season or two.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:59 pm

Ok, so I admit I was wrong about Ancelotti. I was not very enthusiastic when we signed him. I thought it would be better to get someone fresh. But he has been exactly what the team needed. I can't remember the last time RM was playing this well. He is managing the squad very well and all of the players seem to be responding - I don't think Pepe has played this well since his first season under Bernardo Schuster, Benzema looks completely transformed, Ronaldo is in beast mode but still playing about as unselfishly as ever, canteranos are getting an opportunity, he has even somehow managed to resolve the Casillas-Diego Lopez issue in a way that has all parties reasonably satisfied which I would have never thought possible 6-7 months ago.

Ancelotti. Ale
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:41 pm

I will reserve judgement but so far so good. His man-management skills are living up to the hype and fits the club well.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:17 pm

Obviously Ancelotti will be judged on his titles (which is why Jose is such a big fail) but it's been 10 years since we were in such a good position in all three competitions (but of course that is why Queiroz is such a big fail! damn those portuguese....)
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:54 pm

I will be more impressed by a 1-0 victory at Atletico than this Schalke game. They won't give us that much space and that many personal mistakes to take advantage off. While I fear Atletico I look forward to this game because I think it will be much different than the Copa games. It will also give us a slight indicator as to how we will cope with big teams in Cl.

One great thing about this result is that we can rest players before the Barcelona game now. Illarramendi/Casemiro as well as Jese/Isco/Morata should get the chance. Besides Di Maria we avoided yellow cards.
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TM

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by TM on Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:18 pm

Jaime wrote:Obviously Ancelotti will be judged on his titles (which is why Jose is such a big fail) but it's been 10 years since we were in such a good position in all three competitions (but of course that is why Queiroz is such a big fail! damn those portuguese....)

I would have to disagree with this. In the three years under Mourinho, RM won the League (with 100 points and highest number of goals scored in a season), a Copa and three CL semi-finals. Prior to that RM had been knocked out at the last 16 stage for numerous consecutive years.

With regards to Ancelotti I agree with you that he has done very well in rotating the squad and in particular making Benzema look like an actual striker. However I think judgment should be reserved until the we've played some of the upcoming bigger games, in particular against Atletico at the weekend. They will be far more organised and dangerous than Schalke were yesterday.

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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:57 am

TM wrote:
Jaime wrote:Obviously Ancelotti will be judged on his titles (which is why Jose is such a big fail) but it's been 10 years since we were in such a good position in all three competitions (but of course that is why Queiroz is such a big fail! damn those portuguese....)

I would have to disagree with this. In the three years under Mourinho, RM won the League (with 100 points and highest number of goals scored in a season), a Copa and three CL semi-finals. Prior to that RM had been knocked out at the last 16 stage for numerous consecutive years.

With regards to Ancelotti I agree with you that he has done very well in rotating the squad and in particular making Benzema look like an actual striker. However I think judgment should be reserved until the we've played some of the upcoming bigger games, in particular against Atletico at the weekend. They will be far more organised and dangerous than Schalke were yesterday.


To be fair, those aren't titles. Biggrin

I give him the copa and the league which puts him just about on the same level as Vujadin Boskov.

Ale
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abundance

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by abundance on Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:04 am

Jaime wrote:which puts him just about on the same level as Vujadin Boskov.

Ale

well, in my book Boskov is a legend =)
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:43 pm

abundance wrote:
Jaime wrote:which puts him just about on the same level as Vujadin Boskov.

Ale

well, in my book Boskov is a legend =)

Boskov is a legend, fair enough. Boskov > Mourinho. Ale

That put's Jose on the same level as Toshack. Biggrin
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:46 pm


Adaptable Ancelotti getting the best out of Real Madrid

Sometimes, football matches are won primarily by a single individual.

Dortmund’s 4-1 thrashing of Real Madrid in the European Cup last season, for example, was a good all-around team performance, but the German side owed a huge debt to Robert Lewandowski, who was significantly better than everyone else on the pitch, converting half-chances and quarter-chances into goals with brilliant control, instant trickery and powerful finishes.

However, the real beauty of football isn't about individual brilliance, it’s about combination play, cohesion between attackers and selflessness in front of goal. Barcelona’s 3-1 victory over Manchester United in 2011 is the best European Cup final performance in recent memory, not merely because Pep Guardiola’s side won so convincingly, but because of the nature of the goals. The three forwards, Lionel Messi, Pedro Rodriguez and David Villa, all scored. The midfielders, Sergio Busquets, Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta, all recorded an assist. It was a wonderful display of Barca’s cohesion and teamwork.

Referencing a heavy Real Madrid defeat, and then a famous Barcelona win, might sound an unusual way of emphasising Real Madrid’s current brilliance. However, their 6-1 victory at Schalke last night was another great example of a side firing on all cylinders and spreading the goals around wonderfully. Cristiano Ronaldo scored twice, Gareth Bale scored twice and Karim Benzema scored twice. Real Madrid are obsessed with the concept of individualism, but Carlo Ancelotti has found balance and understanding in the final third.

“My players had togetherness, and they played well,” Ancelotti said after the victory in Germany. “Everything came off for us. The front three all scored and were great, but they also had help from their teammates. Our attacking trio are very dangerous.”

It’s surprising that Ancelotti is talking about an "attacking trio," because the 4-3-3 is the third different formation the Italian coach has tried this season. He started with a standard 4-2-3-1 system, similar to the way Jose Mourinho played last season, before briefly trying a 4-4-2 with Cristiano Ronaldo as a roaming second striker, as Manuel Pellegrini often attempted to play in his sole season in charge at the Bernabeu. However, it’s a long time since Real Madrid’s default system was a 4-3-3; Mourinho used it as an alternative, but rarely as his first choice.

Strangely, the sudden change of heart, and dramatic change of system, is in keeping with Ancelotti’s history, as he often seems to stumble upon a formation he didn't originally intend to use. At Milan, for example, he was obsessed with the idea of playing a Christmas tree system, with two advanced playmakers behind one main striker. However, he quickly discovered Milan were much better with a standard 4-3-1-2 –- this was a minor change, but similar shifts have been commonplace.

Next were Chelsea, where Ancelotti started his two-year reign insisting upon a midfield diamond, a formation seen very rarely in Premier League football. Chelsea blasted away the opposition in the first two months, but then encountered problems -- so Ancelotti evolved, adapted and started playing a 4-3-3 that became a loose 4-2-3-1 in the final weeks of the campaign, as they won the league title in Ancelotti’s first season.

This also happened at PSG – Ancelotti was again wedded to the idea of a Christmas tree for his first year in charge, but gradually accepted the need for more width and an extra attacking player, and instead changed to something like a 4-2-2-2 as PSG won Ligue 1.

It shows an interesting flexibility from a man who concentrates on finding a system to fit his players, rather than vice versa. Ancelotti is a lover of technical quality and ball retention, but arguably not a particular long-term planner, preferring to chop and change systems according to which players are on form.

The 4-3-3 at Real Madrid has worked nicely, primarily because it allows both Bale and Ronaldo to play high up the pitch and attack relentlessly without defensive responsibility. They’re two of the most devastating wide attackers in world football and when provided with good service, particularly on the run, they've been magnificently effective.

Benzema has also performed well, both individually and for the team. Real couldn't afford another individualist in that position without reverting to the era of the Galacticos, and much of the Frenchman’s play has been sensible: controlled, simple link-up play to encourage others to make runs off him. He’s chipping in with his share of goals, too, however, and February has arguably been his best month as a Real player.

The midfield works nicely despite the complete lack of physicality. Xabi Alonso sits deep in front of the back four, a role he’s unaccustomed to without either a solid holding player (Javier Mascherano, Sergio Busquets) or a dedicated energetic runner (Sami Khedira) alongside him. He’s been magnificent, however -- after he missed the first couple of months through injury, Ancelotti’s Real haven’t lost a game when Alonso has started.

Alonso’s midfield colleagues are energetic but technical. Angel Di Maria is back in his natural position, as a left-sided shuttler, where he excelled for both Benfica and Argentina. Often viewed as a winger, he’s actually more comfortable in a deeper, more central role. Luka Modric, meanwhile, connects midfield and attack with clever forward passing and off-the-ball running. It all comes together nicely.

The major loser has been Isco, the talented playmaker signed from Malaga. He’s a classic, versatile modern Spanish playmaker, and therefore able to play left, right or centrally in a 4-2-3-1 system. When Ancelotti started the season with that shape, Isco was brilliant -- he headed a late winner on his debut against Betis and was Real’s best player in the third game of the season, against Athletic Bilbao, scoring two more. He doesn't quite fit into the 4-3-3, however, and he hasn't started in two months and has fallen behind Jese, the talented young Spanish forward, in the pecking order.

Real’s are now considered the major challengers to holders Bayern Munich, but the major question mark is whether they’ll complete against a truly physical midfield -- Alonso, Modric and Di Maria, while beautiful to watch, lack genuine power. Ancelotti has usually complemented a Zinedine Zidane with an Edgar Davids, an Andrea Pirlo with a Rino Gattuso, a Marco Verratti with a Blaise Matuidi. He doesn't have that extra dimension this time around.

That particular test will come later. What is for sure, however, is that this is a classic Ancelotti side -- rejigged midway through the season, maximising the talent of key individuals, heavily focused upon technical quality and extremely dangerous in the European Cup.
We need to have the option of a solid player who can't be bullied. This is the only reason I didn't want Khedira sold. Casemiro has not gotten nearly enough playing time to be thrown into the lion's den of Europe. Atletico is going to be a good test but could we handle Chelsea or Bayern?

Progress...we'll see
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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:27 pm

But who are the physical midfielders of Bayern? Javi Martinez, if he plays, but that is not a given. Is our midfield really going to be bullied by Lahm or Kroos or Thiago? Same with Chelsea. Jose has not had time (much to his annoyance) to bring in his style of midfielder players. Ramires is really the only runner. Who else (and Ramires isn't even really that much of a bully, more like a pest) is going to be physically intimidating - Lampard? Hazard? Even Obi Mikel doesn't seem to be a fixture in the current Chelsea team. If there is maybe one team that you could be worried about in that sense, it would be PSG because they play with Motta, Matuidi, and Verratti typically. In fact, PSG are rather worrying all around.

But as far as our own players that "do the dirty work". Khedira recovers one ball every 18 minutes of play this season. Alonso, 1 every 8 minutes. Di Maria 1 every 21 minutes, Modric 1 every 13 minutes, Illarra 1 every 9 minutes. So really I don't think we lose that much without Khedira even though in theory he is supposed to be there to tackle and win the ball back, in reality we have other players who do it even more efficiently who at the same time to don't completely f*ck things up once they do have the ball at their feet.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:16 pm

At the moment we don't know for sure who Bayern would play. But if it were Schweinsteiger-Martinez-Thiago/Kroos then Alonso-Modric-Di Maria doesn't look as strong. I think Mourinho would go for the very effective team he played at City in the league that consisted of Luiz-Matic in the center and Ramires on the right. With regards to Khedira it is not merely about recovering balls on average. For many games we will play something that is more open and not particularly physical, partly because in Spain players aren't that strong. However against quality opposition it can certainly matter if you're lacking in physical strength. My point wasn't that we need Khedira but that we need that type for certain games. If we go far enough we will test this proposition that no physical midfielder is needed because Ancelotti does not have the options either way so he will probably go with our normal midfield and at worst he will go with Illarramendi instead of Di Maria which helps keep the ball but not fighting without it.

To be fair not many top teams in Europe look like they have the sort of strong organisation and physical players and Bayern are playing in a slightly different way with Guardiola whereas they were more physical under Heynckes.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:28 pm

Super Progress wrote:At the moment we don't know for sure who Bayern would play. But if it were Schweinsteiger-Martinez-Thiago/Kroos then Alonso-Modric-Di Maria doesn't look as strong. I think Mourinho would go for the very effective team he played at City in the league that consisted of Luiz-Matic in the center and Ramires on the right. With regards to Khedira it is not merely about recovering balls on average. For many games we will play something that is more open and not particularly physical, partly because in Spain players aren't that strong. However against quality opposition it can certainly matter if you're lacking in physical strength. My point wasn't that we need Khedira but that we need that type for certain games. If we go far enough we will test this proposition that no physical midfielder is needed because Ancelotti does not have the options either way so he will probably go with our normal midfield and at worst he will go with Illarramendi instead of Di Maria which helps keep the ball but not fighting without it.

To be fair not many top teams in Europe look like they have the sort of strong organisation and physical players and Bayern are playing in a slightly different way with Guardiola whereas they were more physical under Heynckes.

I think we can be fairly safe in assuming Pepito is not going to play a doble pivote of Schweini-Javi. It goes against all of his principles.

Still if we have the ball, we don't have to worry as much about fighting without it...because, well we have it. That my friend is PROGRESS! Biggrin Ale
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:02 pm

Sounds more like degeneracy to me if you're into that type of thing

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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:32 pm

Well, it's February, I guess the rumours were going to start sometime...

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Rosicky

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Rosicky on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:44 pm

Pretty sure its March ok

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Kimbo

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Kimbo on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:53 pm

Timezones, chinston. ok 
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:53 pm

Rosicky wrote:Pretty sure its March ok


 Crazy Crazy Crazy Crazy 

 Biggrin Whistle <Ale> 
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:30 am

Juvenil A makes the semifinals of the Youth Champions League after beating PSG 0-1 and will now face Benfica or Man City.

Pretty decent group in the current Juvenil A. Jaime Sanchez and Ivan Saez are the two starting centre backs for the Spanish U19s. Some nice attacking midfielders in Agoney. The colombian centre forward Juanjo Narvaez looks quite promising too. Of course there is Enzo (Zidane) Fernandez as well. And the jewel - Marcos Llorente. This kid is probably the best CM to come through since De la Red. He has good physical size 1,85m already and he has a lot of quality. Can really dictate the play. Of anyone he seems like he can really make it. He has RM in his blood too (His father was Paco Llorente, his great uncle was the legendary Gento, and his grandfather was Grosso ffs!) He's just turned 18 and I'm really hoping next year he will do the preseason with the 1st team and maybe start to get some games in Copa del Rey or something.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:29 pm

Jaime wrote:Juvenil A makes the semifinals of the Youth Champions League after beating PSG 0-1 and will now face Benfica or Man City.

Pretty decent group in the current Juvenil A. Jaime Sanchez and Ivan Saez are the two starting centre backs for the Spanish U19s. Some nice attacking midfielders in Agoney. The colombian centre forward Juanjo Narvaez looks quite promising too. Of course there is Enzo (Zidane) Fernandez as well. And the jewel - Marcos Llorente. This kid is probably the best CM to come through since De la Red. He has good physical size 1,85m already and he has a lot of quality. Can really dictate the play. Of anyone he seems like he can really make it. He has RM in his blood too (His father was Paco Llorente, his great uncle was the legendary Gento, and his grandfather was Grosso ffs!) He's just turned 18 and I'm really hoping next year he will do the preseason with the 1st team and maybe start to get some games in Copa del Rey or something.
 drunken 
See I'm not biased against Spaniards but just against all the small ones which is all of them

Some good genes in that kid. What about Enzo. Anything to write home about?
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:15 am

Super Progress wrote:
Jaime wrote:Juvenil A makes the semifinals of the Youth Champions League after beating PSG 0-1 and will now face Benfica or Man City.

Pretty decent group in the current Juvenil A. Jaime Sanchez and Ivan Saez are the two starting centre backs for the Spanish U19s. Some nice attacking midfielders in Agoney. The colombian centre forward Juanjo Narvaez looks quite promising too. Of course there is Enzo (Zidane) Fernandez as well. And the jewel - Marcos Llorente. This kid is probably the best CM to come through since De la Red. He has good physical size 1,85m already and he has a lot of quality. Can really dictate the play. Of anyone he seems like he can really make it. He has RM in his blood too (His father was Paco Llorente, his great uncle was the legendary Gento, and his grandfather was Grosso ffs!) He's just turned 18 and I'm really hoping next year he will do the preseason with the 1st team and maybe start to get some games in Copa del Rey or something.
 drunken 
See I'm not biased against Spaniards but just against all the small ones which is all of them

Some good genes in that kid. What about Enzo. Anything to write home about?

lol!

Enzo is pretty good. You can tell he was copying moves from his old man since he was a kid. But you'll like this he also inherited Zidane's phsyique. He is 1,87m as well and is really strong on the ball. I don't know if he will ever be WPOTY or anything but he is technically good and could be a very good player.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:22 pm

1.87 tongue 
Ok I figured he was probably alright but that every time he does something good it gets hyped up. Same thing sadly happened with the god of football(Laudrup) and his two sons, neither of whom had the talent from an otherwise long line of talented players in the Laudrup family.
Would be nice if he could become something.

In any circumstance I can get behind this youth thing if they start being more selective physique wise

Anyway I will be in the stadium tomorrow so I hope they deliver the goods.
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:39 pm

Super Progress wrote:1.87 tongue 
Ok I figured he was probably alright but that every time he does something good it gets hyped up. Same thing sadly happened with the god of football(Laudrup) and his two sons, neither of whom had the talent from an otherwise long line of talented players in the Laudrup family.
Would be nice if he could become something.

In any circumstance I can get behind this youth thing if they start being more selective physique wise

Anyway I will be in the stadium tomorrow so I hope they deliver the goods.

The funny thing is our canteranos have typically possessed good physical traits. Ok Mata is more of a midget but apart from him I can't remember anyone in the 1,70m range. Well, Carvajal too I guess. Just in the last decade most of the best players who have come through: Negredo, Javi Garcia, Juanfran, De la Red, Arbeloa, Granero, Parejo, Nacho, Alex Fernandez, Morata, Jese they are all 1,80m and up.

Have fun tomorrow. Malaga should be an easy one.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:55 am

Uh boy. Super ain't gonna like this. Although, to be fair, he's the same height as Marcelo. I guess Coentrao will for sure leave in the summer. Moreno is good but 21m + Cheryshev is an outrageous price.

http://www.soymadridista.com/index.php/futbol/primer-equipo/item/4768-alvarado-el-madrid-ha-cerrado-el-fichaje-de-alberto-moreno?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=soymadridista
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TM

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by TM on Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:33 pm

There's is always Ashley Cole on a free transfer Biggrin.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:28 pm

Yeah we don't do midgets, thank god, but I would rather say that they are mostly average in size with Javi Garcia and Negredo being the obvious exceptions.

I wouldn't be against that but would he want to be on the bench at Real Madrid? We need a defensive alternative to Marcelo and I don't know Moreno too well but I'll take stab at the dark and say he is probably better offensively.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Cristiano on Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:58 am

Our reliance on Alonso is a bit concerning.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Super Progress on Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:29 pm

?
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Jaime

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

Post by Jaime on Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:47 pm

Sounds like Jese and Morata will start against Schalke to give Bale and Benzema (recovering from injury) a rest ahead of the clasico.


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Re: Real Madrid CF 2013/14

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