BVB 2014

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blutgraetsche

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:39 pm

England and Germany btw., or rather Löw's Germany. Klopp is as much of a fan of attacking football as Löw is, but he is not dogmatic and most importantly, he understands that successful attacking football needs a solid defensive foundation. And that what we call "Deutsche Tugenden" ("German virtues") like fighting spirit, winning mentality and aggression, are good and important traits of our game we should conserve while we put more focus on the technical side of things in the education of our players. Klopp is very much on Sammer's wavelength in this regard.

Klopp's trademark counter-pressing strategy, the willingness of his players to run the extra mile (quite literally) are the foundation for the intense attacking football of Dortmund, the key ingredients. Klopp once said that "counter-pressing is the best playmaker", which means that winning the ball in the opposition half and quickly hit them on the break has a relatively high success rate. People have to understand that you don't give up your ideals just because you see the value of PGD. And you are not "less brilliant" without it, quite on the contrary.

The great German teams of the past always combined great technical ability with work rate and a strong mentality. Even the oh-so technical Spanish team of the last few years had a very strong winning mentality which most of the Spanish teams of the past were missing, plus their exhausting pressing and work rate that is the foundation for their 'sterile dominance' approach. When Spain beat Germany in WC 2010, their winning goal was a header by Puyol after a corner.
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Isco Benny

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Isco Benny on Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:36 pm

What's the difference between counter-pressing and pressing?

Nice interview by the way. Klopp is an admirable Teuton, like his philosophy. It's clear AVB is a fan of both Dortmund/Klopp's philosophy in terms of high up the pitch pressing, currently the transitions from defence to attack is still too slow but despite lots of possession, AVB wants to play a directness that is more English/German than Spanish for sure.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by blutgraetsche on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:13 pm

The major difference is that counter pressing happens immediately after the team loses the ball,  usually up to ten seconds after the team lost it,  and usually in the opposition half involving attacking players primarily. So it's a strategy to win back the ball ASAP. Possession teams like Pep's Barcelona ensured possession dominance and control this way,  while Dortmund primarily use it to hit the opposition on the break in their own half where they are even more vulnerable. This is what makes Dortmund rather unique tactically, as they use a "possession football strategy" for quick transitions and counters.

"Normal" pressing is about closing down the opposition while not in possession, so you don't have the ball to begin with. To counter press, you have to lose the ball while in possession.
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Isco Benny

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:43 am

blutgraetsche wrote: To counter press,  you have to lose the ball while in possession.
Apologies for nitpicking, but what scenario would you press without having lost the ball originally in possession?? that's surely 100% of the time.

Sounds to me like counter pressing simply means you press high up the pitch after you've lost the ball whilst attacking, as opposed to sitting back then pressing when in defence to win the ball and counter attack from the back. In other words, 'pressing high up the pitch'. Perhaps that's not hipster enough though versus counter pressing.

Which is what AVB's Spurs do as well (high line, manic pressing by the forwards), but crucially we're failing to be anywhere near as clinical or quick in that short 5-10 second period after the ball has been won back. Dortmund looks exceptional in that transition.
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Xavier

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Xavier on Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:42 am

I think what he means is that the team is already prepared for regaining possession even while they still have possession; it is fundamentally offensive, treating the moments when you just lost the ball as simply an extension of your assault. Dortmund can make their opponents' possession turn against them, especially when deep into their own territory, when any mistake in clearing the ball or transitioning forward is the most crucial. The entire Dortmund game is indeed structured to 'press high up the pitch', but gegenpressing is more than that; it is the explicit, autocratic intent to keep the ball in the attacking third of the field, even if it means giving up the ball to do it.

In Klopp's own words, '[gegenpressing is] the best playmaker in the world. The best moment to win the ball is immediately after your team just lost it. The opponent is still looking for orientation where to pass the ball.'
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blutgraetsche

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by blutgraetsche on Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:03 am

Xavier put it excellenty,  couldn't have explained it better myself.  Ale
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messiah

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by messiah on Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:08 pm

autocratic intent to keep the ball in the attacking third of the field, even if it means giving up the ball to do it.

In Klopp's own words, '[gegenpressing is] the best playmaker in the world. The best moment to win the ball is immediately after your team just lost it. The opponent is still looking for orientation where to pass the ball.

with pep I would take out the even if it means losing it bit, but greatly put, Pep would always preach keeping the ball in the final 3rd, which means winning it back as soon as the players lose it.

young coaches like kloop,pep and a very others really bring joy back to football. they are not inventing the wheel, but reinventing it and is great.

FUCK jose(had to say that Laughing
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Super Progress

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Super Progress on Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:51 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:
Jürgen Klopp: Borussia Dortmund are 'worth falling in love with'


Jürgen Klopp is pondering the similarities between himself and Arsène Wenger, between his Borussia Dortmund team and Arsenal which, on the face of it, appear to be numerous. Klopp, however, does not see it. "He likes having the ball, playing football, passes … it's like an orchestra," the Dortmund manager says, pretending to play the violin. "But it's a silent song, yeah? I like heavy metal."


"If Barcelona's team of the last four years were the first one that I saw play when I was four years of age ... with their serenity, winning 5-0, 6-0 … I would have played tennis. Sorry, that is not enough for me. What I love is that there are some things you can do in football to allow each team to win most of the matches.

"It is not serenity football, it is fighting football – that is what I like. What we call in German – English [football] … rainy day, heavy pitch, everybody is dirty in the face and they go home and can't play football for the next four weeks. This is Borussia.

"When I watch Arsenal in the last 10 years, it is nearly perfect football, but we all know they didn't win a title. In Britain they say that they like Arsenal but they have to win something. Who wins the title? Chelsea, but with different football, I would say. This is the philosophy of Arsène Wenger. I love this but I cannot coach this because I am a different guy. You think many things are similar? I hope so in some moments, but there are big differences, too."

Klopp will face Wenger in Dortmund on Wednesday night, in Champions League Group F, knowing that a repeat of the victory at Emirates Stadium the week before last would put his team in the driving seat to qualify. That 2-1 win was built on trademark pressing and quick transitions but what appeared to please Klopp the most was the statistic that said his players had run a collective 11.5km more than their opponents.

"Coaches will say that it's not important for their team to run more and they prefer to make games the right way," Klopp says. "I want to make games only the right way and run 10km more. It's a rule to give all and it can make the difference if you work more. If you don't have to give all and you still win, what's this? You don't like this game? It's like this [Klopp yawns]. What, you can win Wimbledon like this?"

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/03/borussia-dortmund-jurgen-klopp-arsenal
There is much to like in Klopp and his sides. I do remember him from Mainz because he worked well with Zidan who had set the Danish league alight and then he took Zidan with him although he never really got back to his old form. Can't find any faults in his sides either.
PGD+technique is right up my alley. If I were a coach I would probably be somewhere in between Benitez and Klopp.

It is strange that there is no word for re-pressing because we even have it in Danish. I don't quite get why people are so sceptical about this. I remember Kimbo thought it was merely distinction without a difference.
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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:30 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOVf8ljy85M

dortmund in for this greek striker, his stats are very good, also in the cl





Brian2468

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Brian2468 on Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:11 pm

Quality of football and out running them at the same time will win you games I wonder where that came from. It is old as the hills be interesting to see the stats on that 66 WC final.

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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:32 am

dortmund is busy right now

they signed ramos from hertha, and they are also in for nürnburgs drmic (but only when they get relegated) it would cost them 5 Million, would nürnberg stay in the league then 10 to 15 Million

the mathias ginter deal is also done, he is coming from freiburg for around 8 million, he is germanys most talented defensive allrounder

good so far

would love to see kagawa back, moyes has certainly no clue how to use him, dortmund should also get rid of auba, he is no bvb material


Squad of next season could look like this:

goalkeeper:
weidenfeller, langarek

fullbacks:
durm, schmelzer, piscek, (großkreutz)

centre backs:
hummels, sokratis, subotic, sarr/friedrich (Ginter)

CM/DM:
kehl, kirch, sahin, jojic, gündogan (no one will buy this kid, his back is a mess), (ginter)

AM:
Miki, Auba, kuba, Reus, Hofman, (großkreutz)

strikers:
ramos, drmic


i think that would be an insane squad

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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:22 am

gündogan signed a 1 year extension  Rolling Eyes  (then leaving 2015 for farca  Laughing )


at least his health condition looks way better, the sporting directer is even talking about a possible WC inclusion


-----------

kloppo changed his tactics into a 4-1-4-1

sahin has lost his starting place, jojic looks like a real gem

durm is the surprise of the season, he looks like an intelligent version of marcelo  Smile
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Antarion

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Antarion on Wed May 28, 2014 9:59 am

Immobile to Dortmund seems done

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Fey

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Fey on Thu May 29, 2014 7:47 pm

Dortmund hijacked the deal with de Vrij to Lazio. Well, if one can go to Dortmund instead of Lazio I would wait as well. Though I guess this must mean that Hummels is gonna leave, de Vrij looks a lot like him, not in looks though.
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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Thu May 29, 2014 8:13 pm

i don`t know him

but with the likes of subotic, sokratis and hummels and maybe Ginter his future wouldn`t look very bright

hummels will only leave for barca, who knows whats will happen

also immobile is done, 19,5 million, thats a steal
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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Fri May 30, 2014 8:26 am

lol!  wolfsburg is in for Lukaku

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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Fri May 30, 2014 2:46 pm

Kroos wrote:

also immobile is done, 19,5 million, thats a steal

Not too sure about it being a steal...

Good player for a solid team though.
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bluenine

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by bluenine on Fri May 30, 2014 8:04 pm

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
Kroos wrote:

also immobile is done, 19,5 million, thats a steal

Not too sure about it being a steal...

Good player for a solid team though.

Agree. 19.5m is a big price, but it could work out well for everyone. That said, if Inter were after him, I wouldn't have liked to pay anything north of 15m. It remains to be seen whether he make that transition to lead the attack for a big team.

If Balotelli screws up in the World Cup, Immobile could get his big chance. Immobile is likely to start for Italy in the friendly against Ireland tomorrow, Kroos you may want to tune into that.
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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Fri May 30, 2014 11:59 pm

we are talking here about the serie a leading top scorer

would he  have played in portugal for porto dortmund would have paid around 40 million  Suspect 


also he is very young for an striker, born in the 90`s, there is plenty of future potential, he surely knows how to score goals

i think 19 Million is a very good price, yeah he played his first decent season, but he is a striker (and strikers are always the most expensive players to buy), but i admit it, a "steal" was maybe a bit excessive from me

@blue thx for the hint, i will try to watch it

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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Sat May 31, 2014 2:20 am

Kroos wrote:we are talking here about the serie a leading top scorer

would he  have played in portugal for porto dortmund would have paid around 40 million  Suspect 


also he is very young for an striker, born in the 90`s, there is plenty of future potential, he surely knows how to score goals

i think 19 Million is a very good price, yeah he played his first decent season, but he is a striker (and strikers are always the most expensive players to buy), but i admit it, a "steal" was maybe a bit excessive from me

@blue thx for the hint, i will try to watch it


But he has had one standout season only.  His other was in Serie B (with Pescara I believe).

I think he may work out well, but 19 million is no steal for Immobile, even in this hyper-inflated market.
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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Sat May 31, 2014 7:08 am

i don`t know him, only remember his goal against spain, and i thought who the hell is this guy, typical italiens

they probably have next season the best squad in there club history


weidenfeller, langarek

piscek, großkreutz, durm, schmelzer

hummels, sokratis, subotic, (ginter)

bender, kirch, kehl, (ginter)

gündogan, jojic, sahin

miki, reus, aubame, hofman, kuba, (großkreutz)

ramos, immobile
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abundance

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by abundance on Sat May 31, 2014 1:10 pm

Kroos wrote:would he  have played in portugal for porto dortmund would have paid around 40 million  Suspect 
ehe so very true

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:But he has had one standout season only.  His other was in Serie B (with Pescara I believe).
Another way to look at it is:
he had one season to adapt to serie B and was top scorer the following year;
he had one season to adapt to Serie A and was top scorer the following year.

He's not a natural-born Van Basten but that sequence usually suggests a very solid striker in the makings.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
I think he may work out well, but 19 million is no steal for Immobile, even in this hyper-inflated market.
Wouldn't call it a steal sure, but it's a very fairly priced bet.
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bluenine

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by bluenine on Sat May 31, 2014 7:35 pm

abundance wrote:
Kroos wrote:would he  have played in portugal for porto dortmund would have paid around 40 million  Suspect 
ehe so very true

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:But he has had one standout season only.  His other was in Serie B (with Pescara I believe).
Another way to look at it is:
he had one season to adapt to serie B and was top scorer the following year;
he had one season to adapt to Serie A and was top scorer the following year.

He's not a natural-born Van Basten but that sequence usually suggests a very solid striker in the makings.

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
I think he may work out well, but 19 million is no steal for Immobile, even in this hyper-inflated market.
Wouldn't call it a steal sure, but it's a very fairly priced bet.

Nicely articulated, mate. Its a bet, which comes with a very high price because he is the capocannoniere. But if it works.... he will be playing for Bayern in a couple of years Razz
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bluenine

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by bluenine on Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:15 am

Yo Kroos. You will be happy to know that young Immobile scored a hatrick for Italy in a friendly against Fluminense, and also had 2 assists. It was more like a training session than a game, but looks like Balotelli has competition for the Azzurri starting role.

This is what I was talking about in the Azzurri thread. Immobile works well with both Insigne and Cerci, it could be a good plan B for Prandelli even if none of them have enough Intl experience.
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The Easter Bunny

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by The Easter Bunny on Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:37 pm

Anybody heard the rumours of Lukaku to Wolfsburg? Chelsea want 40m, but Wolfsburg are unwilling to go higher than 32-34m apparently

110%

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by 110% on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:26 am

The Easter Bunny wrote:Anybody heard the rumours of Lukaku to Wolfsburg? Chelsea want 40m, but Wolfsburg are unwilling to go higher than 32-34m apparently

Is that euros or GBP. Seems a bit excessive either way. That is somewhere around what Diego Costa cost chelsea, and he has proved much more than Lukaku, who might be the next drogba eventually, but is inconsistent as hell at the moment.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:53 am

I can't see Wolfsburg paying that kind of money for Lukaku. They are loaded, but Allofs is not stupid. If true, it's Euros, but I don't think it is.

This being the BVB thread, let's go back to topic and say that BVB have shown serious interest in Ajax' Daley Blind apparently, who had a blinder for Holland vs. Spain.
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Kroos

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by Kroos on Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:58 am

what a fatty he has become

new NEWS about him

an operation on his back was successfull, the doctors believe that he will be fit in 3 months

so after one year he made the decision to make an operation  jocolor well an back operation is surely not something thats easy, and in the bvb statement was a big accent on "complication-free" operation

let`s hope he will come back as good as he was before, he is something else in world football

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blutgraetsche

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:04 am

Yeah, not looking good there, kinda sad. BVB and Germany miss him, hope he can regain full fitness and rescue his career. On form, he was simply marvelous, one of the best central midfielders I've seen.

110%

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Re: BVB 2014

Post by 110% on Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:55 pm

Looks like the baby is due any day now, maybe that was the mystery behind his "injury"

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