England v Scotland

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christmasborocooper

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:12 pm

Wilshere and Cleverly have been decent enough.
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Kimbo

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Kimbo on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:27 pm

Awww Lambert.
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:28 pm

Rickie Lambert cheers

Gerrard looks like he has AIDS
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christmasborocooper

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:28 pm

Haha that's tremendous stuff. I do like Lambert.
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:32 pm

a few more Rickie Lamberts and a few less Wilshere, Cleverley, Zaha, Welbecks please Roy.

Di Caniooooo!

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Di Caniooooo! on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:39 pm

Zaha couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.
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Kimbo

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Kimbo on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Wow, that Griffiths guy is only 22.


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christmasborocooper

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:45 pm

Meth is harsh on the face I guess.

Di Caniooooo!

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Di Caniooooo! on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:47 pm

Meth, its one hell of a drug.

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christmasborocooper

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:51 pm

Yeah that was the joke.
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Murray

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Murray on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:57 pm

Jaime wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:Kenny Miller shoving it up Murray there.
lol!
Hopefully that was his last game.

110%

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by 110% on Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:16 am

luisalbertohedrinksurine wrote:is Gerard wearing a child's replica kit underneath his England kit?

Shows how bad England are that a past his sell-by-date Steve Gerrard is consistently the best player. We've got half a team of players whose CV is all hype and no substance, Wilshere, Cleverley, Walker, Welbeck - these are just empty shirts.
Gerrard, Cleverly and Wilshire worked reasonably well considering none of them is naturally inclined to defend. A lot of what they tried to create was fucked up by Rooney in fairness (lack of fitness, poor first touch etc), although he has done far worse in an England shirt. There is really no need for him to drop into midfield to make the kind of passes that gerrard, cleverly and wilshire can do. What it does is give everyone one less option up front.

Welbeck worked very hard and did get a goal, and Walcott finished well after his usual bad first touch. I am often quite amused by Wlacott, because you think he has fucked it up, then he finishes brilliantly. Happy for Lambert as well, hopefully he takes carroll's "big man" role.

Defence was not great, still seemed to be in preseason mode. Baines was good going forward, but walker offered nothing in that regard. Not even sure if he is better defensively than Johnson, but he is definitely worse going forward.

Hart Whistle. Definitely overrated but who else is there, that isn't also prone to mistakes.

110%

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by 110% on Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:17 am

Murray wrote:
Jaime wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:Kenny Miller shoving it up Murray there.
lol!
Hopefully that was his last game.
One of the best players for Scotland, he's cemented his place for the foreseeable future Wink
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:17 pm

Patrick Barclay: England have the perfect No9... and it's not Wayne Rooney


No wonder David Moyes was so anxious that Wayne Rooney should play for England last night.


If the Manchester United managers intention had been to put Chelsea and Arsenal off the idea of taking him, it worked a treat. Both will probably switch to Rickie Lambert now.

To be serious, it would be ridiculous to judge the restless Rooney on his first full hour of football since May.

But there was food for thought in the sight of his struggling at centre-forward. As a No9, he compared unfavourably with Kenny Miller, let alone Lambert, whose unforgettable cameo must be treated with caution given the tiredness of the Scots.

But should Rooney be regarded as a No9? Given the abundance of No10s at Stamford Bridge, my hunch is that Jose Mourinho envisages him at the front, while it would be interesting to obtain Arsene Wengers view of the man regarded, at least until the emergence of Jack Wilshere, as footballs most potent Englishman.

I have always thought Rooney a natural No10, a dropper-off and creator who will still score goals in the manner of Lionel Messi.

Of course he can play centre-forward. But he gravitates deep and usually to the left, from where he can use his better foot, just as Messi likes to drift in from the right.

Rooneys game has been following this pattern for a decade and is unlikely to change now. The world, however, has room for only one false No9.

Fortunately Roy Hodgson has the option of using a real one and, while there is an argument for Andy Carroll as well as the beginnings of a case for Lambert, the ideal answer stared Wembley in the face: Rooneys clubmate Danny Welbeck was the man of the match by a distance.

Welbecks goal emphasised that he has the aerial ability of a centre-forward; the mid-air volley that curled just the wrong side of a post exemplified his technical excellence (as if we needed reminding after the sublimely flicked winner against Sweden at Euro 2012); his pace and artful unselfishness were evident as ever.

Id love to see him switch positions with Rooney. The argument that he does not score enough for his club is superficial.

United have tended to utilise his versatility, hence he has struck 11 goals in 64 matches (for England its a healthier six in 17). Welbeck is 22. At roughly the same age Alan Shearer left Southampton with 23 from 118 and the rest is history.

Let a new England centre-forward be established.

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/sport-comment/patrick-barclay-england-have-the-perfect-no9-and-its-not-wayne-rooney-8763149.html

<Ale>
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Hlebagone

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Hlebagone on Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:28 pm

Apart from Rooney's average as a number 10 these days.
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debaser

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by debaser on Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:48 pm

we seem to get cycles with Rooney - he gets played as #9 everyone says really he'd be better playing #10, to get more of the ball and create. He plays #10 and everyone says he needs to be #9 so he can score more goals. regardless of position, his form has always come in fits and starts - and for England it has rarely started at tournaments.

optimistically, maybe if has half a season rest on Utd bench, he can find form at the right time without being knackered when the tournament comes around. but I tend more to think we've got to stop thinking of him as automatic first choice who we have to fit the other attackers around & put him level with others like Welbeck and say we'll only start him if he's on form & if he can fulfil a role in the team.
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:00 pm

if Danny Longlegs is the future, we really are fucked.

I'd have him in a tournament squad purely because he 'can' play in a few different roles, but it's laughable to suggest he's the 'perfect no9' he's nowhere near the quality of Rooney, Owen, Shearer, Sherringham, Linekar etc.

Podge should be looking at players who are playing for their club side, and pick them in the right position. Not crowbarring in the Man Utd youth team because he doesn't want to be caught ignoring the superstars of the future.

Jack Wilshere? Fuck Wilshere. Fuck Cleverley. Let them do keepy-uppys at halftime to entertain the crowd if they're so talented and need to be acknowledged. Stop putting prospects in the team. Pick players from West Ham and Stoke if there aren't any suitable in the top 4. Joe Cole was just as exciting a prospect, but he had to prove himself before he got into the team, no one built a side around him based on potential.
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debaser

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by debaser on Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:10 pm

all very well saying fuck the prospects but there's a massive dearth of players in the prime age group who play regularly & who are any good.

of course getting a functioning system with players who know their position is key, but in terms of personnel, in some cases it's pretty much a choice between the last gasp of the old generation & the prospects of the next generation.

take centre mid, you got:

-30+ experienced but on the way out (Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick, Parker, Barry)
-30+ never made it to international 'cause they were always behind the above (Osman, Nolan, Sidwell)
-prospects aged <24 (Wilshere, Henderson, Cleverley, Ox, Rodwell, Cork, Colback, Westwood, etc.)

But who is there in between - aged 25-30, regulars for a PL team...I'll tell you: Mark Noble, Leon Britton and Craig Gardner. there really is not many more. James Milner if he counts as CM. are we going to be any better if we play Noble rather than Cleverley?
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The Chosen Glenn

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by The Chosen Glenn on Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:39 pm

If all your best players want to play in the same position, you don't crowbar them into positions where they're no longer the best. We had this with Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes. Let's play Lampard on the wing. Let's play Scholes at fullback.

Wilshere and Gerrard in central midfield is just as bad. If that means picking Danny Guthrie or Ben Watson then so be it. If Gerrard can't be dropped and Rooney is our No10 then we have excellent cover in Wilshere and Cleverley.

You can't play Gerrard or Wilshere or Cleverly in central midfield without a ball winner. Craig Gardner, Jack Colback, someone from League 2 FFS. Don't make me say square pegs in round holes Grr

2002 it took injuries to Gerrard, Hargreaves and Murphy before we finally put Trevor Sinclair, a winger, on the wing. He wasn't a sexy superstar, but he was a winger playing on the wing and he was a revelation.

This isn't a squad game where we're stuck with the 20 or so players we've got, so we have to put our 3rd choice striker on the wing or a centre back in midfield because he can do a job there. We can pick an actual winger, we can pick an actual midfielder. Trevor Sinclair. Trevor Fucking Sinclair.
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debaser

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by debaser on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:03 am

sure I agree with principal, but I'm just saying we barely even have the Trevor Sinclair-level options - it's hard to come up with a single English DM who's somewhat experienced & playing regularly to a decent standard without going back to Gareth Barry & Scott Parker.

Ben Watson & Danny Guthrie not exactly the ball-winning DM enforcer we need and not even guaranteed 1st choice for their teams (who both got relegated). Gardner is thought shit by Sunderland fans. Sunderland fans

Colback maybe. Delph perhaps if he progresses a bit & learns to tackle without fouling. but these are still young prospects too, which you were railing against before.

maybe Karl Henry floats your boat? he's probably next in the list.
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Luis

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Luis on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:11 am

I can't believe Cleverley is an established English International. He's nowhere near good enough.

Do people still not rate Walcott and think Ashley Young is better or what?
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christmasborocooper

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by christmasborocooper on Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:25 am

Cleverly made the Walcott goal with his great pass.. Strange time to single him out..

110%

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by 110% on Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:38 am

christmasborocooper wrote:Cleverly made the Walcott goal with his great pass.. Strange time to single him out..
He also had another chance to score but couldn't get his feet right.

I didn't think that the midfield was bad, managed to keep possession pretty well against a team full of battling midfielders Wink. But I agree with the general point that gerrard-wilshire-cleverly may be bit too attacking and with everyone available it will probably be gerrard-carrick and one of wilshire/cleverly for the near future.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:56 am

Rodwell is the obvious choice... Or is he injured again?


I still remember the Carragher at DM bullshit lol!
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COTR

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by COTR on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:26 pm

Rodwell doesn't play any football does he ?

He chose to kill his career rather than progress
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blutgraetsche

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:30 pm

You don't need a DM, you need tactically aware players and a sensible, working tactical framework. The days of the one-dimensional 'destroyer' type of players are over.

110%

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by 110% on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:59 pm

COTR wrote:Rodwell doesn't play any football does he ?

He chose to kill his career rather than progress
Rio says managers don't give young players a chance Rolling Eyes

110%

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by 110% on Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:01 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:You don't need a DM, you need tactically aware players and a sensible, working tactical framework. The days of the one-dimensional 'destroyer' type of players are over.
You are probably right, but I like tactically aware players who can pass a ball, and can stick their boot in when needed, such as Martinez Wink
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EMP

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by EMP on Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:33 pm

Isco Benny wrote:Will sales/downloads of Braveheart spike this week in Scotland I wonder. Hashtag Alex Salmond thinks it was historically accurate
Are they even aware that Wallace's 'love interest' in that film was grossly under-age even for the times, and grew up to be known as one of England's She-Wolf monarchs. Doh
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Allez les rouges

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Re: England v Scotland

Post by Allez les rouges on Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:00 pm

Can it be true that Walcott has only scored five times for England? So I've seen them all the three v Croatia, the one against Sweden and Wednesday night.

I thought Barclay's article was a good one.

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