The Next England Squad

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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:17 pm

Well Roy said in his post-game interview that Rooney played well, so still no chance of him not starting. I think the only change will be Sterling being moved out wide and Rooney going in the middle.

Brian 2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian 2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:19 pm

The option of Lambert, Lallana and Barkely three subs hits the game from a different angle. Lambert is a smart pro and read CB's well for weaknesses. Milner moulds into team changes fast and is another option.
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Luis

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Luis on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:26 pm

Wrighty and Dixon's marks:

Hart - 5
Johnson - 5
Cahill - 6
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 5
Gerrard - 6
Henderson - 5
Sterling - 8
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4
Sturridge - 8

Brian 2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian 2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:29 pm

I am not for making many changes from the team that played. Its now how we finish them with attacking prows that needs to be built on. Gerrard maybe old but beside Henderson he still reads the play most of the time better that any other midfielder we have at this time until his legs go anther 45 minutes. As a Nation we react to the negatives way to quickly and stop building on the positives, we were weak in places that can be addressed but at the expense of a team showing to play more now from to the middle to in front of goal this is where where we want to keep the momentum going. We see the best teams make shit mistakes like what happened to Baines and cover. Is Luke Shaw ready one on one he is better I feel than Baines for a young lad. The chance of starting him is timing his wing back runs to perfection thats where all backs get caught out at times.

If Hodgson instructed him to play left back only for his first game in the WC against Uruguay I would be happy with it and then see how he progresses.


Last edited by Brian 2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:30 pm

Luis wrote:Wrighty and Dixon's marks:

Hart - 5
Johnson - 5
Cahill - 6
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 5
Gerrard - 6
Henderson - 5
Sterling - 8
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4
Sturridge - 8

Bit harsh on henderson, I thought he did pretty well.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:33 pm

110% wrote:
Luis wrote:Wrighty and Dixon's marks:

Hart - 5
Johnson - 5
Cahill - 6
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 5
Gerrard - 6
Henderson - 5
Sterling - 8
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4
Sturridge - 8

Bit harsh on henderson, I thought he did pretty well.

Someone needed to be blamed for not dealing with Pirlo apparently, it couldn't be Gerrard ofcourse, England legend.

Brian 2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian 2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:50 pm

Henderson played well for what he does we just do not have anyone spectacular to play along side him.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by christmasborocooper on Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:50 pm

Luis wrote:Wrighty and Dixon's marks:

Hart - 5
Johnson - 5
Cahill - 6
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 5
Gerrard - 6
Henderson - 5
Sterling - 8
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4
Sturridge - 8

Strange mark for Hart and Henderson.. Henderson especially, was infinitely better than Baines and Johnson. Henderson looked as composed a player as we've had in a while. Kept things ticking, kept things simple when necessary.. Gave it to those who could cause problems. No way he deserved less than Gerrard.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:
Luis wrote:Wrighty and Dixon's marks:

Hart - 5
Johnson - 5
Cahill - 6
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 5
Gerrard - 6
Henderson - 5
Sterling - 8
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4
Sturridge - 8

Bit harsh on henderson, I thought he did pretty well.

Someone needed to be blamed for not dealing with Pirlo apparently, it couldn't be Gerrard ofcourse, England legend.

Blame the tactics then. England in essence were a 2 man midfield vs a 5 man midfield, or a 4 of de rossi verratti pirlo and marchisio. That requires the two of them to work harder. Neither deserves as much criticism as they are getting. They weren't great but they were nowhere near as bad as Rooney and Baines, and Baines was mainly bad because of Rooney.
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bluenine

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by bluenine on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:08 pm

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:
Luis wrote:Wrighty and Dixon's marks:

Hart - 5
Johnson - 5
Cahill - 6
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 5
Gerrard - 6
Henderson - 5
Sterling - 8
Welbeck - 7
Rooney - 4
Sturridge - 8

Bit harsh on henderson, I thought he did pretty well.

Someone needed to be blamed for not dealing with Pirlo apparently, it couldn't be Gerrard ofcourse, England legend.

Henderson cannot be expected to "deal" with Pirlo, he plays too deep. If anyone had to deal with Pirlo, it had to be one of Welbeck, Sterling or Rooney.

I thought Henderson had a decent game. My ratings:

Hart - 5.5
Johnson - 5.5
Cahill - 6
Jagielka - 6
Baines - 5
Gerrard - 6
Henderson - 6
Sterling - 8
Welbeck - 6.5
Rooney - 5
Sturridge - 7
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:17 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Glen Johnson was poor - I hope Micah Richards plays regular football between now and EURO '16 as he is our best RB by a country mile.

Baines was there for the taking - if you reach that age without playing CL there is usually a reason and its not like Roy shouldn't have known, we were wide open down that side v Poland. On MOTD they regularly refer to him as "one of the best left backs in Europe"  Rolling Eyes 

Ashley Cole is perhaps the only member of the Goalden Generation  Neutral  who has always performed when it counts so its bizarre that he gets dropped and Gerrard/Lampard stay on.

Speaking of which, gerrard was shit as usual - when you hear pundits say "he can be our Pirlo"  Laughing Doh 

He is an impact player whose legs have gone - not a playmaker.

Brilliance from Sterling and Rooney for the goal but the move started with a trademaek Stevie G pass into an opponents shins.

Sterling was exciting and is a hell of a prospect  but faded.

As impressive as he and Barkley can be I really wish OX had been available as he has something about him when he plays for England - will be fantastic for us.

Welbeck was ok but if a right footed striker plays out wide it is usually on the left so he can cut in - difficult position for him, he should have stood that corss up for Sturridge to head not go along the floor.

Sturridge took goal well but all round game not great, rooney average apart from good weak-foot assist.

Bizarre that Milner was not used as he is our fittest player.

That game will take it out of them so I hope Roy has the freedom to make changes without the being a big fuss over people being "dropped".

Don't know how bad Sturridge injury is.

We have to stick with Johnson but maybe Shaw ?

Hart

Johnson
Cahill
Jagielka
Shaw

Milner
Henderson

Sterling
Barkley
Lallana

Welbeck


Hendo and Milner - quick, great stamina, hard working, two-footed - would do a job.
ok Agree with pretty much everything. I would prefer to see Mike Williamson at CB with Jagielka at RB, well I would have like to see it tried anyway.

A.Cole - Williamson - Cahil - Jagielka could have worked well enough for this WC.

Regarding the midfeild. I agree Gerrard is a serious handicap in CM. Not good enough a passer to be there just for his passing. The rest of his game is average to poor. And a midfield pivot of Clevery/ Huddlestone - Milner might have worked would have liked to see it tried.

I'm very frustrated that Cleverly wasn't included in the squad. He, like Welbeck, has always performed well for England regardless of how they are misused at their club. His inclusion to England CM improved is noticeably and it has regressed in his absence. Its such a waste to have taken the totally useless Lampard who has pretty much always been bad for England.


Last edited by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:24 pm

Isco Benny wrote:The problem in the current set up (attacking wise at least) is we play narrow. Worked well in the first half,  second half when Italy sat back and invited us on,  we tried to start using width but the quality just wasnt there.  Our fullbacks are indeed poor at this level,  and we have a player (Rooney) who simply cannot play at the speed as the rest of the team.  Great cross aside, he was woeful yet again,  slowing play down,  pinged some nice cross field balls,  but nothing incisive and failed to track back either when it counted.

Another of that so called generation - Gerrard - was equally unimpressive making incisive passing,  but at least he doesn't slow the team down in the way that Rooney does in transition.

Wholesale changes for the next match aren't going to help or realistically won't happen. Best we can hope is same team but Rooney either dropped (unlikely) or replaced early.  Really do feel like Barkley is a younger,  fitter version who can play his role better. Italy game proved that the way we can be successful is fast incisive football on the transition.  Sturridge supported by Barkley,  Sterling and Welbeck fits that tactic. Gerrard play short and sharp instead of looping Hollywood balls,  those three can thread the through balls (Sterling to Rooney was best pass of the game).
Considering I've criticise Gerrard a lot, I'm going to defend his Hollywood passing. Its mostly good and useful and these days when they fail, they aren't costly. I don't have a problem with them at all. Its his short passing and off the ball movement that is the real problem. His passing isn't cute or purposeful enough. His movement as a CM, specifically his horizontal movement, is really very bad.
When in his AM prime, his forward and diagonal attacking movement was great though.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:30 pm

The Pröfessör wrote:
England's best midfielder when fit and on form
Wilshere is totally untrustworthy right now. A very immature temperament and reckless game play. He only played a solid 90 mins twice last year. Against Bayern, playing Cm next to an experienced leader DM in Flamini. England don't have a DM like that. And on the right as you've put him. But I just wouldn't trust him without a good RB and good DM. Definitely shouldn't start.


Last edited by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:39 pm

Agree with Cleverley, looks after the ball well, was a bit pissed off with Roy's comments about club form, it's importance is exaggerated at this level (hence the striker hasn't scored for his club in 3 years came off the bench for Costa Rica and scored after about 3 mins!!!)

Agree with Williamson and Tomkins could possibly challenge him - another one who shouldn't suffer because he has the misfortune to be managed by an utter c**t at club level.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:47 pm



Last edited by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fey

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fey on Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:51 pm

They hate the Englands press have for Rooney is mad. Great assist. Yet, Stevie G wundercaptain stays untouched thanks to all the Liverpool bias in England. Rooney had a better game then him, thats for sure. Though he should have made it 2-2.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:01 pm

Fey wrote:They hate the Englands press have for Rooney is mad. Great assist. Yet, Stevie G wundercaptain stays untouched thanks to all the Liverpool bias in England. Rooney had a better game then him, thats for sure. Though he should have made it 2-2.
Engalnd Media is always Love or Hate with anyone. The reason they're picking on him is that there are better players in positions he's good in now. Or at least ones who better suite the style of play England want to play. Its his older media hype keeping him in the teams so they are going hard against him to try an take him out the team. We've got a Coach in Hodgson who is clearly swayed by media hype over actual performances - Lampard over Cleverly, Johnson over Flanagan or Smalling over Stones (he took Shaw so not worried about experience), Baines over A.Cole (he's taken other club subs so not worried about that).

The media know they have influence, so they're setting out their position.

Brian2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:04 pm

How many water carriers would you like to see in midfield. Cleverley  while  better than Wilshere has no presence either and do not  have any kind of spark to add to the side at present, even Milner will add something more than those two right now. We lack quality in those areas. Our hope in the midfield department is for Hodgson to get more out of Barkley. Linking the forward line though him with fast players to feed up front.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:14 pm

Brian2468 wrote:How many water carriers would you like to see I midfield. Cleverley  while  better than Wilshere are present neither  have any kind of spark to add to the side at present, even Milner will add something more than those two right now. We lack quality in those areas. Our hope in the midfield department is for Hodgson to get more out of Barkley. Linking the forward line though him with fast players to feed up front.
No we don't need spark in CM. There was enough spark in the attacking play yesterday from the front 4 (well 3) forwards. We just need to sharpen the final ball and finishing. We have to respect that all these young players haven't played together much and aren't quite there yet. But there was good intent and some good ideas yesterday. Very refreshing

In CM, we need composure and control. Not an aggressive attacker like Barkely. Henderson was OK. But Cleverly has played better than that for England. He should be the main CM. No I don't think he's that great, I do think everyone else is worse though. Actually our CM should really be Cleverly and Milner/Huddlestone/Barry. But none of them get enough hype to get in the England team.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:17 pm

wtf, Mike Williamson??? To be fair he's not a horrible player like Steven Taylor, he's just solidly and consistently average.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by blutgraetsche on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:20 pm

England need a "strategist" in the central midfield. The last time you had someone like that was Paul Scholes in his pomp.
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Fey

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fey on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:22 pm

They have one in Cleverley. But he cant tackle, so in a nation that considers tackling a quality, he gets mocked for it.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:23 pm

Kimbo wrote:wtf, Mike Williamson??? To be fair he's not a horrible player like Steven Taylor, he's just solidly and consistently average.
He's a better CB than G. Johnson is a RB. I would have liked to see it tried. He could have been to our defence what Lambert is kinda for the attack.

Brian2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:33 pm

I am happy for the pairing of Henderson and Milner or after Gerrard tires in a game. Barkley is used as attacking midfielder to cause indecision in front of oppositions defence the perfect fit for a plan B attack change with Lallana and Lambert.
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Luis

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Luis on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:42 pm

I'm sorry but Cleverley is terrible. Really terrible.

The midfield is fine.

It's the form of Rooney and the dodgy full backs that are the problem.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:46 pm

Luis wrote:I'm sorry but Cleverley is terrible. Really terrible.

The midfield is fine.

It's the form of Rooney and the dodgy full backs that are the problem.
All of Cleverly's performances for England have been better than all of Henderson's. Real talk.

Brian 2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian 2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:51 pm

shazlx wrote:
Luis wrote:I'm sorry but Cleverley is terrible. Really terrible.

The midfield is fine.

It's the form of Rooney and the dodgy full backs that are the problem.
All of Cleverly's performances for England have been better than all of Henderson's. Real talk.

Henderson has improved no end this season and actually carries Gerrard and his game last night was good. Not ruling out Cleverley we just need to get the old guard of Gerrard and Lampard to move on after this WC.


Last edited by Brian 2468 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Luis

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Luis on Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:52 pm

shazlx wrote:
Luis wrote:I'm sorry but Cleverley is terrible. Really terrible.

The midfield is fine.

It's the form of Rooney and the dodgy full backs that are the problem.
All of Cleverly's performances for England have been better than all of Henderson's. Real talk.

Nah.
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:25 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:England need a "strategist" in the central midfield. The last time you had someone like that was Paul Scholes in his pomp.

Carrick could and should have been. Mystery really what happened to him.

Those sjggesting Cleverly over Henderson right now are having a laugh. Henderson is an excellent water carrier. Been superb this season and thought he played well yesterday. Blut is right, we've looked to Gerrard to be that strategist in midfield for many years now and it has failed. Gerrard's defensive / set piece work cannot be questioned, but on the ball he remains criminally overrated.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:41 pm

Isco Benny wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:England need a "strategist" in the central midfield. The last time you had someone like that was Paul Scholes in his pomp.

Carrick could and should have been.  Mystery really what happened to him.
Understandable really. Carrick has never performed with any authrourity for England. Even his good performances have been so so and tey were when he was performing well for his club. Now he's been poor for his club it makes sense not to have him in the team. I would prefer him over Gerrard though, but Barry is better in that role.

Isco Benny wrote:Those suggesting Cleverly over Henderson right now are having a laugh.  Henderson is an excellent water carrier. Been superb this season and thought he played well yesterday.
Henderson has been good this season but not as a CM in the double pivot. Cleverly has won a league title starting lot of games playing in a double pivot and the England midfield has always looked better with him in it.

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