WORLD CUP Draw

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blutgraetsche

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:05 am

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:All matches in the northeast, two of them at 1 pm. Germans will suffer with the sun Very Happy 
Panzers roll out no matter the weather. Ale

Interesting groups. I wouldn't exactly call Germany's group "easy" either -  invigorated Portugal with Ronaldo on a mission, Klinsmann trying to outdo his former assistant in front of a German audience that hasn't forgotten his disastrous stint in München that cost him a lot of pretige in the Fatherland, Ghana with Kevin Prince Boateng trying to impress the land of his birth and the team of his brother. Quite a lot of subtext.

From the big teams, Argentina have the easiest draw. Lucky fuckers better hope they avoid us this time. I don't think that England is hopeless either. Traditionally, Italian teams didn't like to play English teams, the 'traditional' English style doesn't suit them. And even if this England side isn't really "traditionally English", it's designed to park the bus and counter with pace. Italy tend to struggle against defensive sides. Uruguay are a gritty side with a traditionally well organised defence also. But of course there is no doubt that Italy are the superior team, both to England and Uruguay.

Holland will get out of their group. Beglium may not win theirs and meet us (or the Portuguese) in the second round where they have to prove their 'dark horse' status.

Looking forward to it!

Brian 2468

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Brian 2468 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:36 am

Blut you right about Germany they have to be careful, Portugal it seems have grown some balls and could make it tougher. USA will give you a physical workout.
England need to do play intelligently this is the first time in a while the expectations are cooled down this can only help the team
Sturridge and Rooney pairing needs some work. Sturridge has improved there is a missing part two his game and feel he may not be first team choice until he pops in goals every game.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:22 am

Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
debaser wrote:sure I'm not arguing Italy are stronger & will be favourites to go through the group. just don't think it's a laughable notion to say they only a bit better.

no doubt Italy are strong defensively, but at same time I look at squad and it seems Balotelli the only forward to be particularly scared of
Actually defensively I am worried.  After/alongside Balo there is Rossi as well, who is enjoying good form.  But yes Gilardino doesn't evoke fear like Vieri did Smile.

But Prandelli has reconfigured this Italy in so many different ways that players like Candreva and Diamanti make it easier to compensate for out and out strikers.

Anyway, like I said, England may very well get a result, better than a cagey draw even (Houghton in 1994 and all that).
Yes the "Italy will be well organised defensively" stereotype is rather out dated and doesn't apply to this team. The defense is surely the weakest area of the team.

Midfield is very strong and technically gifted, and this is where they can dominate England (as we saw 18 months ago).

Forwards are stronger than 18 months ago. Rossi is back and firing, Insigne has broken through and Cassano isn't just coming off a mini stroke (but i don't know if he will be called up). Believe it or not, Totti may be there too!

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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:25 am

Brian 2468 wrote:Blut you right about Germany they have to be careful, Portugal it seems have grown some balls and could make it tougher. USA will give you a physical workout.
England need to do play intelligently this is the first time in a while the expectations are cooled down this can only help the team
Sturridge and Rooney pairing needs some work. Sturridge has improved there is a missing part two his game and feel he may not be first team choice until he pops in goals every game.
I thought there were no expectations in euro 2012? I know the media are trying their best to not be optimistic because they realise England can not cope with that kind of pressure, but it's like a kid trying not to be excited for christmas. As soon as England get a win and clear the group stage, the "England can do it!" bandwagon will start.
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Super Progress

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Super Progress on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:40 am

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
debaser wrote:sure I'm not arguing Italy are stronger & will be favourites to go through the group. just don't think it's a laughable notion to say they only a bit better.

no doubt Italy are strong defensively, but at same time I look at squad and it seems Balotelli the only forward to be particularly scared of
Actually defensively I am worried.  After/alongside Balo there is Rossi as well, who is enjoying good form.  But yes Gilardino doesn't evoke fear like Vieri did Smile.

But Prandelli has reconfigured this Italy in so many different ways that players like Candreva and Diamanti make it easier to compensate for out and out strikers.

Anyway, like I said, England may very well get a result, better than a cagey draw even (Houghton in 1994 and all that).
Yes the "Italy will be well organised defensively" stereotype is rather out dated and doesn't apply to this team. The defense is surely the weakest area of the team.

Midfield is very strong and technically gifted, and this is where they can dominate England (as we saw 18 months ago).

Forwards are stronger than 18 months ago. Rossi is back and firing, Insigne has broken through and Cassano isn't just coming off a mini stroke (but i don't know if he will be called up). Believe it or not, Totti may be there too!

Balotelli, Rossi, Cassano, Totti, Insigne
drunken 

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debaser

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by debaser on Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:05 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:
Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:All matches in the northeast, two of them at 1 pm. Germans will suffer with the sun Very Happy 
Panzers roll out no matter the weather. Ale

Interesting groups. I wouldn't exactly call Germany's group "easy" either -  invigorated Portugal with Ronaldo on a mission, Klinsmann trying to outdo his former assistant in front of a German audience that hasn't forgotten his disastrous stint in München that cost him a lot of pretige in the Fatherland, Ghana with Kevin Prince Boateng trying to impress the land of his birth and the team of his brother. Quite a lot of subtext.
I was more calling Germany's draw for the KOs easy. avoid Spain/Italy/Brazil/Netherlands till SF. avoid Argentina till final if both win groups. Group is not easy but I'd be shocked if Germany don't win it.
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Fey

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Fey on Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:56 pm

Im curious if Brazil can deal with the pressure. Home advantage, sure. But somwhere their 1950 syndrome will cause a lot of pressure. Its highly likely 2nd round will be Brazil-Holland. And allthough it will be a daunting task to keep them out of the quarters. Its not impossible. With van Gaal Holland has one of the best coaches out there. With Clasie taking midgets role and an inform Robben and a random black winger. Holland should be able to grind out a win. Just dont concede for 30 minutes or so.

Germany will fail in the semis as usual.
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Rosicky

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Rosicky on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:13 pm

England vs Italy moved to 11pm (BST) lol!
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Murray

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Murray on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:16 pm

Some other games have been moved too. More jiggery pokery from Fifa.

Saturday, 14 June

Ivory Coast v Japan, 02:00 (from 23:00) in Recife

England v Italy, 23:00 (from 02:00) in Manaus

Wednesday, 18 June

Cameroon v Croatia, 23:00 (from 20:00) in Manaus

Spain v Chile, 20:00 (from 23:00) in Rio de Janeiro

Sunday, 22 June

United States v Portugal, 23:00 (from 20:00) in Manaus

Belgium v Russia, 17:00 (from 23:00) in Rio de Janeiro

South Korea v Algeria, 20:00 (from 17:00) in Porto Alegre
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christmasborocooper

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by christmasborocooper on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:19 pm

Any reason for the change?
Is that worse for us..?
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Fey

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Fey on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:20 pm

They really wanted to play that game 0200 in the night? In the jungle? Players carried from the pitch cause of malaria attacks. What a shite times though means we have to watch in the middle of the night/early morning.
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Murray

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Murray on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:28 pm

christmasborocooper wrote:Any reason for the change?
Is that worse for us..?
TV companies nagged Fifa into changing it
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Rosicky

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Rosicky on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:31 pm

Fey wrote:They really wanted to play that game 0200 in the night? In the jungle? Players carried from the pitch cause of malaria attacks. What a shite times though means we have to watch in the middle of the night/early morning.
These are UK times you dutch spastic.

So it wouldnt have 2am in the Jungle.
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Rosicky

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Rosicky on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:32 pm

christmasborocooper wrote:Any reason for the change?
Is that worse for us..?
Its hotter. And so people can watch it.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by christmasborocooper on Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:41 pm

Like people couldn't have coped with staying up on a Saturday night..

Thought it'd probably be hotter.. Good stuff.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by mongrel hawk on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:18 pm

Fey wrote:Im curious if Brazil can deal with the pressure. Home advantage, sure. But somwhere their 1950 syndrome will cause a lot of pressure. Its highly likely 2nd round will be Brazil-Holland. And allthough it will be a daunting task to keep them out of the quarters. Its not impossible. With van Gaal Holland has one of the best coaches out there. With Clasie taking midgets role and an inform Robben and a random black winger. Holland should be able to grind out a win. Just dont concede for 30 minutes or so.

Germany will fail in the semis as usual.
I think Brazil had a horrible draw. The group is average, but group B is tough. Brazil is running a very real risk of being knocked out on the 2nd round at home, which would be a disgrace.

I hope Chile will find a way to 2nd place. Chile is a good team, but, unlike Uruguay, they are Brazil bitches. They always do something which is fatal for them against Brazil: they try to play attacking football. Playing attacking football against Brazil is something only the French, the Dutch (though not in the last WC) and sometimes Argentina know how to do without being killed instantly.

I'd hate to face Holland. Due to style, they would be more dangerous than Spain and Chile. In order of preference: Chile, Spain, Holland.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by mongrel hawk on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:22 pm

Fey wrote:They really wanted to play that game 0200 in the night? In the jungle? Players carried from the pitch cause of malaria attacks. What a shite times though means we have to watch in the middle of the night/early morning.
lol!
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mongrel hawk

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by mongrel hawk on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:48 pm

christmasborocooper wrote:Any reason for the change?
Is that worse for us..?
The game will be 18:00 Brazil time, instead of 22:00. In terms of temperature, it's more or less the same in Manaus. Temperature in the North falls only slightly in the night, like 2 or 3c. No big difference. It would make a difference if the game was changed to 16:00 or earlier because of the sun.

This temperature thing will be an interesting issue in this WC. We may have games under 10c (sometimes even under 5c) in Curitiba and Porto Alegre, under 15c in São Paulo, between 15c and 30c in Rio, Belo Horizonte and Brasília and between 22 and 37 in Salvador, Recife, Fortaleza, Natal (beach cities in the North) and Manaus (rain forest).

Brazilian league games are never played earlier than 16:00 in the winter and 17:00 in the summer. It seems absolutely ridiculous that we'll have games at 13:00 in cities that don't have winter like the last 5 cities referred above.

That said, I think there's no reason at all to complain about the games after 16:00.
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bluenine

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by bluenine on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Super Progress wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Forza Italia!Forza Milan! wrote:
debaser wrote:sure I'm not arguing Italy are stronger & will be favourites to go through the group. just don't think it's a laughable notion to say they only a bit better.

no doubt Italy are strong defensively, but at same time I look at squad and it seems Balotelli the only forward to be particularly scared of
Actually defensively I am worried.  After/alongside Balo there is Rossi as well, who is enjoying good form.  But yes Gilardino doesn't evoke fear like Vieri did Smile.

But Prandelli has reconfigured this Italy in so many different ways that players like Candreva and Diamanti make it easier to compensate for out and out strikers.

Anyway, like I said, England may very well get a result, better than a cagey draw even (Houghton in 1994 and all that).
Yes the "Italy will be well organised defensively" stereotype is rather out dated and doesn't apply to this team. The defense is surely the weakest area of the team.

Midfield is very strong and technically gifted, and this is where they can dominate England (as we saw 18 months ago).

Forwards are stronger than 18 months ago. Rossi is back and firing, Insigne has broken through and Cassano isn't just coming off a mini stroke (but i don't know if he will be called up). Believe it or not, Totti may be there too!

Balotelli, Rossi, Cassano, Totti, Insigne
drunken 

Won't happen. Cassano is not cut out for such an important role at the highest level. Totti is too old to play a key role every 3 days in such heat. More likely it will be:

Balotelli, Rossi, Osvaldo, and two of SES/Insigne/Gilardino, with Cerci or Berardi making a late push for a spot.

But like Forza and Bobo said, attack is least of Italy's problems. The defense is shaky at best, and not in the best of form. Italy will need to really come together as a team, or I fear they will suffer the same fate as 2010.
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bluenine

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by bluenine on Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:28 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:I don't think that England is hopeless either. Traditionally, Italian teams didn't like to play English teams, the 'traditional' English style doesn't suit them. And even if this England side isn't really "traditionally English", it's designed to park the bus and counter with pace. Italy tend to struggle against defensive sides. Uruguay are a gritty side with a traditionally well organised defence also. But of course there is no doubt that Italy are the superior team, both to England and Uruguay.
I am not sure I agree. This Italy have a lot of gaps, specially in defense. The quality is just not good enough. Luckily, England are shite too. That is an even game. I think Uruguay will qualify for sure, and it will be between England and Italy for the next spot. Its 50-50.

This Italy cannot afford a slow start this time.
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bluenine

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by bluenine on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:53 am

Fey wrote:Why not a free for all draw. I get why FIFA wants a Brazil-Germany final...but still.

Ok, I am a bit confused. Unless the excel sheet I have downloaded is wrong, If Brasil and Italy bot win their groups, they will meet in the semis, right? Its Argentina and Spain (assuming they top their groups) who will be on the other side of the draw?

That said, No disrespect to our German fans here, but IMO Germany has little chance to reach the final. Maybe if they get a very favorable draw in the KO phase...

I am very pessimistic about Italy's chances of doing well in this world cup. Germany's chances of reaching the final are about the same as Italy's.

Germany are very unlike Italy... I would bet upon them to get out of that tough group, even in first place perhaps. They would beat any "smaller" team in the KO, but I can't see them beating any of the top nations like Brazil, Argentina, Spain or even Italy this time.

Italy, on the other hand, are far more likely to crash out in the group stage. They are also more likely to lose to a "smaller" team in the 2nd round... but if they get a run going, ie if the team spirit starts gelling, they are far more likely than Germany to beat some of the top nations...

Which weirdly enough, gives them about the same probability as Germany of reaching the final. And that probability is much, much lower than the tournament favorites, which IMO are Brasil, Argentina and Spain.
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Fey

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Fey on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:17 am

Germany always seem to beat the Argies these days. Argentina have a great group. But they havent done anything special for ages. Are they still top tier these days? Though with Messi and Aguero you can nver rule them out. As for Italy. Well it can indeed both go ways. They can lose/win 1-0 to Andorra but they can do that as well with Brazil.
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Kroos

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Kroos on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:26 am

but I can't see them beating any of the top nations like Brazil, Argentina, Spain or even Italy this time.


on individuals the german team is way ahead of any of those teams, the problem is the mental attitude when it really matters, and the GERMAN CL FINAL should have given our players the last bit of self believe to win a tournament

i liked the way we played against italy and england, less proactive, this is the key to win tournaments
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COTR

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by COTR on Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:57 pm

I've got tickets to Holland Spain cheers 

and Korea - Russia
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mongrel hawk

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by mongrel hawk on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:33 pm

Now it's official. The English team will be the villains against Italy in Manaus.

It seems the Daily Mail said seriously that alligators may be a threat in the streets of Manaus (Manaus is a 2 million inhabitants city, it's like saying you couold be killed by an alligator in Miami or by a bear in Moscow).




http://esportes.terra.com.br/futebol/copa-2014/jornal-ingles-se-preocupa-com-risco-de-encontrar-jacares-em-manaus,b19a61673c1d2410VgnVCM3000009af154d0RCRD.html
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Fey

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Fey on Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:59 pm

COTR wrote:I've got tickets to Holland Spain cheers 

and Korea - Russia
You should sell them. They will go for a few k. How on earth did you get them anyway.

I heard there will be anacondas at the England game.
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Kimbo

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Kimbo on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:00 pm

Err, it seems they were referencing the local tourist board.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2519893/World-Cup-2014-Englands-late-game-Italy-risks-run-ins-ALLIGATORS.html

Are Brazilians always this sensitive?
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Fey

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Fey on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Always the victim never their fault...
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mongrel hawk

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by mongrel hawk on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:18 pm

Kimbo wrote:Err, it seems they were referencing the local tourist board.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2519893/World-Cup-2014-Englands-late-game-Italy-risks-run-ins-ALLIGATORS.html

Are Brazilians always this sensitive?
I agree it's silly. And yeh, some Brazilians are oversensitive.

The local tourist board may have put in the pamphlet that you may have the rare opportunity of seeing an alligator as something positive, just like you may see an alligator in a Florida city. The daily mail reproduced this as a threat. A Brazilian website on its turn reproduced the daily mail story with a sensationalist headline. Lazy Brazilians who read only the headline and are a bit oversensitive began to post silly things about "the ignorant English". Lots of clicks on both sites. That's how journalism works.
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Fey

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Re: WORLD CUP Draw

Post by Fey on Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:25 pm

Does it bother Brasilians many people still view it as a 3th world country that is higly violent. Yet in reality it looks much like the USA these days.

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