Who is going to be the champions?

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Who is going to win the World Cup?

[ 7 ]
35% [35%] 
[ 3 ]
15% [15%] 
[ 1 ]
5% [5%] 
[ 2 ]
10% [10%] 
[ 0 ]
0% [0%] 
[ 2 ]
10% [10%] 
[ 1 ]
5% [5%] 
[ 0 ]
0% [0%] 
[ 0 ]
0% [0%] 
[ 2 ]
10% [10%] 
[ 0 ]
0% [0%] 
[ 2 ]
10% [10%] 

Total Votes: 20
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Fey

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Fey on Sat May 31, 2014 2:57 pm

Barbaric. Brazil 1982 and Holland 1974 are more famous then winning sides. Nonsense sides like Italy 2006 Germany 1990 are nothing compared to such legacies.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by mongrel hawk on Sat May 31, 2014 3:01 pm

Fey wrote:Barbaric. Brazil 1982 and Holland 1974 are more famous then winning sides. Nonsense sides like Italy 2006 Germany 1990 are nothing compared to such legacies.

Now you're sounding like a Brazilian intelectual socialist.
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Fey

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Fey on Sat May 31, 2014 3:08 pm

Legacy lasts forever, a trophy is only a statistic in the end. A wise man, Tywin Lannister, once said "Gold doesnt matter, its all about the name and the legacy" cause that will shine forever.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by mongrel hawk on Sat May 31, 2014 3:12 pm

Fey wrote:Legacy lasts forever, a trophy is only a statistic in the end. A wise man, Tywin Lannister, once said "Gold doesnt matter, its all about the name and the legacy" cause that will shine forever.

I should expect this line of thinking from a Dutch football fan. ; )

At least it's better than the British: "it was too hot; it was too humid; those (insert name of any winning team) are cheaters; penalty shoot-out is only luck; the ref was a disgrace."
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Fey

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Fey on Sat May 31, 2014 3:23 pm

Nonsense, most Dutch people are proud of that 2010 performance, more and more is this nation becomming a nation of progress.

Brian 2468

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Brian 2468 on Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:46 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
Kroos wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
Kroos wrote:
Kimbo wrote:Although I think tiki-taka is going to be killed off at this WC,

i have to see it before i believe it, we or i thought the same at the euro 2012

Chile will kill them alright. ok

I'm afraid Brazil may lose in the 2nd round to Chile or Holland, which would be a cold shower for the atmosphere in the WC.

chile is scary, the friendly against germany was an utter domination from them, the last time i`ve seen this against a german side was the euro 2008 final

Chile lost 2-1 to Egypt yesterday, but I guess they played this friendly as a training session (or not?).

Chile won that game 3-2

Head on games. I rate them higher than Holland, Germany, and England playing in South America.
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Murray

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Murray on Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:13 pm

More evidence that David moyes is a numpty - in his Sunday Times column today, he said that Argentina have a strong group of defenders. Doh
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Rosicky

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Rosicky on Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:17 pm

Its Brazil vs Spain in round 2.

Chile will win that group.

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:23 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
Kroos wrote:
Kimbo wrote:Although I think tiki-taka is going to be killed off at this WC,

i have to see it before i believe it, we or i thought the same at the euro 2012

Chile will kill them alright. ok

Don't forget that Spain is hated in Brazil for 2 reasons: Diego Costa and the bad treatment Brazilian tourists and immigrants usually receive in Spain. They will be constantly booed in every game, the villains of the WC.

I'm afraid Brazil may lose in the 2nd round to Chile or Holland, which would be a cold shower for the atmosphere in the WC. It will be a very tough 2nd round for Brazil anyway. Gping through the 2nd round, Brazil may only be stopped in the final.

Spain will be booed mainly because they are seen as the biggest threat to Brazil. If Brazil get knocked out earlier than Spain, the crowd will be less hostile.

On the other hand, the crowd will get more hostile as Argentina progress in the tournament because the vast majority of brazilians do not want to see them lifting the trophy on brazilian soil.

If Spain and Argentina face each other in the final, most of the brazilians would support Spain.

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:48 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:It must be surreal to move from So Paulo to a 12,000 inhabitants town(a typical "roa" as we say here in Minas). One day you will miss the chaos! Smile

I loved So Paulo as a single guy in my 20s: parties, drugs, a different girl every week, etc. Now I'm married for 3 years and we want dogs and maybe children. SP is no place for children. So I convinced my wife to go to her family town where I can work as a book translator through the internet. If I miss SP, in 3 hours by car I'm here to spend the weekend and see my family and friends (and my club games!).

@Kroos

Too soon for you to begin talking shite. If the WC was in Europe, Germany and Spain would have a chance. Here they stand no chance. South Africa was a big fucking accident, the worst WC champions ever: Spain had the worst attack in numbers for a WC champion ever, were lucky against Paraguay and were the only WC champions that lost a game during the WC ever. That was a fucking disgrace for football. Germany and Uruguay would have been much better champions. I see Spain winning in South Africa almost as bad as Greece winning in Europe.

I disagree. Germany and Spain have a chance because they have by far the most talented and balanced squads. Argentina miss top defenders and defensive midfielders. Brazil miss world class strikers and playmakers.

Spain didn't score too many goals at the last WC, but they were in control for the biggest part of their matches. They had some difficult matches in the last WC, but knockout stage matches are really difficult. All the recent past champions had a lot of trouble to eliminate "small footballing countries". Brazil vs United States was very close in 94, France at home scored in the last minutes of the overtime against Paraguay in 98, Brazil needed the help of the ref and great saves from their keeper against Belgium in 2002 and Italy had the help of the ref to score an injury-time penalty against Australia in 2006. That doesn't take anything away from their achievements.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by mongrel hawk on Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:03 am

The ghost of the 1950 WC is already in Rio, according to a Puma TV commercial in Uruguay:

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bluenine

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by bluenine on Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:10 pm

Its quite shocking how poor Brasil's squad is when it comes to AM's or strikers, barring Neymar. But so many quality DMs/CMs. Where has the flair gone?

Paulinho, Fernandinho, Hernanes, Gustavo, & Ramires. Surely one of them could have been left out in favour of an attacking midfielder, to add some creativity... maybe even the over-the-hill Kaka or PSG-bench-warmer Lucas Moura.

That said, its probably good for our man Hernanes. Out of those 5, he probably offers the most creativity. While on Inter, it looks like we are interesting in Gustavo. I hope that deal works out, I like the look of him. Brasil these days produces good DMs and CBs - how times have changed.
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debaser

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by debaser on Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:00 pm

they shoulda picked Ronaldinho for old time's sake.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by christmasborocooper on Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:04 am

Brazil haven't been a flair team in forever.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:16 am

christmasborocooper wrote:Brazil haven't been a flair team in forever.

but they will still samba their way into the final.
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bluenine

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by bluenine on Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:46 am

christmasborocooper wrote:Brazil haven't been a flair team in forever.

True, Brasil have had a defensive solidity since 1990. But they always had a few brilliant attacking players. Just look at the contrast with the last world cup they won in 2002, not so long ago - Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Denilson, Kaka, Vampeta, etc.
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Allez les rouges on Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:32 pm

bluenine wrote:Its quite shocking how poor Brasil's squad is when it comes to AM's or strikers, barring Neymar. But so many quality DMs/CMs. Where has the flair gone?

Paulinho, Fernandinho, Hernanes, Gustavo, & Ramires. Surely one of them could have been left out in favour of an attacking midfielder, to add some creativity... maybe even the over-the-hill Kaka or PSG-bench-warmer Lucas Moura.

That said, its probably good for our man Hernanes. Out of those 5, he probably offers the most creativity. While on Inter, it looks like we are interesting in Gustavo. I hope that deal works out, I like the look of him. Brasil these days produces good DMs and CBs - how times have changed.

Times have changed from when? Who were the thrilling attacking midfielders when Brazil won it in '94? The bedrock, as so often, was a rock-solid defence and defensive midfield and ruthless strikers. Sure, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Kak came after, but you could say it was a similar story ultimately in '02 (when all the major nations apart from Germany flopped). '06 too, despite the "magic quartet", and last time around they were efficient until outdone at their own game by the Dutch.

Seems to me you have to go back to the Eighties for your clich to be true, and Brazil know it the shift in philosophy from '94 onwards was a conscious reaction to the failure of more extravagantly flair-dominated teams.
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Murray

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Murray on Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:57 pm

Allez les rouges wrote:
bluenine wrote:Its quite shocking how poor Brasil's squad is when it comes to AM's or strikers, barring Neymar. But so many quality DMs/CMs. Where has the flair gone?

Paulinho, Fernandinho, Hernanes, Gustavo, & Ramires. Surely one of them could have been left out in favour of an attacking midfielder, to add some creativity... maybe even the over-the-hill Kaka or PSG-bench-warmer Lucas Moura.

That said, its probably good for our man Hernanes. Out of those 5, he probably offers the most creativity. While on Inter, it looks like we are interesting in Gustavo. I hope that deal works out, I like the look of him. Brasil these days produces good DMs and CBs - how times have changed.

Times have changed from when? Who were the thrilling attacking midfielders when Brazil won it in '94? The bedrock, as so often, was a rock-solid defence and defensive midfield and ruthless strikers. Sure, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Kak came after, but you could say it was a similar story ultimately in '02 (when all the major nations apart from Germany flopped). '06 too, despite the "magic quartet", and last time around they were efficient until outdone at their own game by the Dutch.

Seems to me you have to go back to the Eighties for your clich to be true, and Brazil know it the shift in philosophy from '94 onwards was a conscious reaction to the failure of more extravagantly flair-dominated teams.

But it's not as if Brazil are deliberately leaving out flair players, they don't actually have any who they could have picked. Apart from over the hil guys like Kaka and Dinho who shouldn't be picked anyway.
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bluenine

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by bluenine on Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:15 pm

Allez les rouges wrote:
bluenine wrote:Its quite shocking how poor Brasil's squad is when it comes to AM's or strikers, barring Neymar. But so many quality DMs/CMs. Where has the flair gone?

Paulinho, Fernandinho, Hernanes, Gustavo, & Ramires. Surely one of them could have been left out in favour of an attacking midfielder, to add some creativity... maybe even the over-the-hill Kaka or PSG-bench-warmer Lucas Moura.

That said, its probably good for our man Hernanes. Out of those 5, he probably offers the most creativity. While on Inter, it looks like we are interesting in Gustavo. I hope that deal works out, I like the look of him. Brasil these days produces good DMs and CBs - how times have changed.

Times have changed from when? Who were the thrilling attacking midfielders when Brazil won it in '94? The bedrock, as so often, was a rock-solid defence and defensive midfield and ruthless strikers. Sure, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Kak came after, but you could say it was a similar story ultimately in '02 (when all the major nations apart from Germany flopped). '06 too, despite the "magic quartet", and last time around they were efficient until outdone at their own game by the Dutch.

Seems to me you have to go back to the Eighties for your clich to be true, and Brazil know it the shift in philosophy from '94 onwards was a conscious reaction to the failure of more extravagantly flair-dominated teams.

Allez, Brasil always had a few great attacking players (AMs and Strikers). Sure, they haven't really played free-flowing all attack game since the 80s, but my point is not about tactics, its about talent. Brasil had some quality attacking players in 1994 and 2002:

In 1994, there was Romario, Bebeto, Rai, young Ronaldo, Leonardo, etc... I remember Edmundo did not even make the squad, he would waltz into the current Brasil starting XI now.

In 2002, there was Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, young Kaka, Denilson, etc.... Young Adriano, inspite of his obvious talent, didn't make the cut - A 20 year old Adriano today would probably be starting for Brasil.

Compared to now, you have Neymar plus 3 average strikers. And Oscar + Willian - who shouldn't even be starting for Chelsea. You cannot deny that this Brasil looks very weak in the attacking department as compared to the last two world cup winning squads, which had at least 3 world class attacking players if not more.

Not that they are not favorites to win anyways. But I wonder where the goals will come from if Neymar gets injured...
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abundance

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by abundance on Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:29 pm

Fey wrote:Barbaric. Brazil 1982 and Holland 1974 are more famous then winning sides. Nonsense sides like Italy 2006 Germany 1990 are nothing compared to such legacies.
We italians never had a titillating team like those two (the closest we had got killed in Superga)...

...anyway our '70, '78, '82, '90, '02 were all better than '06. perhaps even '94 and '98 were.

But in my morbid italian mind, this just makes '06 team more epic, not less =D


The goosebumps you probably get reminiscing the beauty of '74 total football, I do get from remembering the strong, distinct feeling I got half a hour into our '06 group debut with Ghana. The feeling that "this time, those guys won't fukin let us down".
This is a feeling you dutch aesthetes have yet to experience, and when you'll do, you'll realize that any winning team, for how ugly, flukey and lucky it may be, has a magic in it that trumps any other's superior technical quality - and to hell with historical recognition.
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Allez les rouges

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Allez les rouges on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:12 pm

bluenine wrote:
Allez les rouges wrote:
bluenine wrote:Its quite shocking how poor Brasil's squad is when it comes to AM's or strikers, barring Neymar. But so many quality DMs/CMs. Where has the flair gone?

Paulinho, Fernandinho, Hernanes, Gustavo, & Ramires. Surely one of them could have been left out in favour of an attacking midfielder, to add some creativity... maybe even the over-the-hill Kaka or PSG-bench-warmer Lucas Moura.

That said, its probably good for our man Hernanes. Out of those 5, he probably offers the most creativity. While on Inter, it looks like we are interesting in Gustavo. I hope that deal works out, I like the look of him. Brasil these days produces good DMs and CBs - how times have changed.

Times have changed from when? Who were the thrilling attacking midfielders when Brazil won it in '94? The bedrock, as so often, was a rock-solid defence and defensive midfield and ruthless strikers. Sure, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Kak came after, but you could say it was a similar story ultimately in '02 (when all the major nations apart from Germany flopped). '06 too, despite the "magic quartet", and last time around they were efficient until outdone at their own game by the Dutch.

Seems to me you have to go back to the Eighties for your clich to be true, and Brazil know it the shift in philosophy from '94 onwards was a conscious reaction to the failure of more extravagantly flair-dominated teams.

Allez, Brasil always had a few great attacking players (AMs and Strikers). Sure, they haven't really played free-flowing all attack game since the 80s, but my point is not about tactics, its about talent. Brasil had some quality attacking players in 1994 and 2002:

In 1994, there was Romario, Bebeto, Rai, young Ronaldo, Leonardo, etc... I remember Edmundo did not even make the squad, he would waltz into the current Brasil starting XI now.

In 2002, there was Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, young Kaka, Denilson, etc.... Young Adriano, inspite of his obvious talent, didn't make the cut - A 20 year old Adriano today would probably be starting for Brasil.

Compared to now, you have Neymar plus 3 average strikers. And Oscar + Willian - who shouldn't even be starting for Chelsea. You cannot deny that this Brasil looks very weak in the attacking department as compared to the last two world cup winning squads, which had at least 3 world class attacking players if not more.

Not that they are not favorites to win anyways. But I wonder where the goals will come from if Neymar gets injured...

I agree (as in: previously at least they had some more exciting choices available), I wasn't saying that Brazil have flair options now, just saying that in a real sense that's not what they've been about, certainly at World Cups, since the 80s.

For what it's worth, I probably prefer that Italian team of '06 (and 2000 for that matter) to the last two Brazilian winners, though I'm probably biased (I like Brazil and Brazilians, but the hype around the national team has wound me up for god knows how long).
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Super Progress

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Super Progress on Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:19 pm

abundance wrote:
Fey wrote:Barbaric. Brazil 1982 and Holland 1974 are more famous then winning sides. Nonsense sides like Italy 2006 Germany 1990 are nothing compared to such legacies.
We italians never had a titillating team like those two (the closest we had got killed in Superga)...

...anyway our '70, '78, '82, '90, '02 were all better than '06. perhaps even '94 and '98 were.

But in my morbid italian mind, this just makes '06 team more epic, not less =D


The goosebumps you probably get reminiscing the beauty of '74 total football, I do get from remembering the strong, distinct feeling I got half a hour into our '06 group debut with Ghana. The feeling that "this time, those guys won't fukin let us down".
This is a feeling you dutch aesthetes have yet to experience, and when you'll do, you'll realize that any winning team, for how ugly, flukey and lucky it may be, has a magic in it that trumps any other's superior technical quality - and to hell with historical recognition.
Well said

The Real Madrid league winners of 2007 were the worst Real side I have seen win but by far the best title in terms of emotion. What makes people remember you is not only technical flair but also the drama you create. Liverpool in 2005 will be remembered forever even if they were pretty much below par except for a short period of the game. How many care that Bayern should have won in 99 if for 2 mins. Ultimately you also have to ask who do you play for? Your own fans? Other fans? Future fans?

Danes are still proud of the 92 side even if they had a much much better side in the 80's that played expansive football. Sometimes it is much more fun to be a defensive underdog even to other supporters. Look at the support Atletico Madrid got this year in Cl.

Drama=legacy
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bluenine

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by bluenine on Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:29 pm

abundance wrote:
Fey wrote:Barbaric. Brazil 1982 and Holland 1974 are more famous then winning sides. Nonsense sides like Italy 2006 Germany 1990 are nothing compared to such legacies.
We italians never had a titillating team like those two (the closest we had got killed in Superga)...

...anyway our '70, '78, '82, '90, '02 were all better than '06. perhaps even '94 and '98 were.

But in my morbid italian mind, this just makes '06 team more epic, not less =D

The goosebumps you probably get reminiscing the beauty of '74 total football, I do get from remembering the strong, distinct feeling I got half a hour into our '06 group debut with Ghana. The feeling that "this time, those guys won't fukin let us down".
This is a feeling you dutch aesthetes have yet to experience, and when you'll do, you'll realize that any winning team, for how ugly, flukey and lucky it may be, has a magic in it that trumps any other's superior technical quality - and to hell with historical recognition.

Well said, mate. IMO the Azzurri of 1990 were technically the best Italian World Cup side since 1982. I had higher hopes from 1990, 1994 and 2002 squads than I had from 2006. But I will always remember the joy the 2006 side gave us, far more than any other Italian side. That was just magic, from the first game right till the end.

110%

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by 110% on Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:57 am

I am doing this prediction game at work, where you have to predict the outcome of every game all the way to the champion.

Most people have got either brazil or spain winning it, but they're going to be on the same side of the draw, and are most likely to meet in a very hard-fought semi-final, which might give an advantage to whichever team comes from the other side of the draw.

If Italy are to win, they'd have to get out of a relatively difficult group, possibly have a game against Croatia, then beat the 2 best teams (spain and brazil), and then one of germany, argentina or france. The final would be easier than their matches against spain and brazil.

England would have to do something similar, so that's why I think it is highly unlikely, and they should consider getting to the quarter final against either brazil or spain as success, anything beyond that as a bonus. If they had been on the other side of the draw I would say they would do better.

Unlike many on here I predict Uruguay and Belgium to not do well. Uruguay because as a small nation they only have 2 good players, and what can I say about Belgium, except that you win nothing with kids Wink. Belgium to win the world cup would likely have to beat portgual, argentina, germany and then brazil/spain in the final. I just don't see it happening.
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Antarion

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Antarion on Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:03 pm

110% wrote:

Most people have got either brazil or spain winning it, but they're going to be on the same side of the draw, and are most likely to meet in a very hard-fought semi-final, which might give an advantage to whichever team comes from the other side of the draw.

We've been here before. Groups get mixed in the semifinal and it will be Brazil vs Germany/France and Spain vs Argentina (if all favourites win their group of course and no surprises etc etc)
Brazil vs Spain is only possible after the group stage or in the final.

110%

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by 110% on Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:13 pm

Antarion wrote:
110% wrote:

Most people have got either brazil or spain winning it, but they're going to be on the same side of the draw, and are most likely to meet in a very hard-fought semi-final, which might give an advantage to whichever team comes from the other side of the draw.

We've been here before. Groups get mixed in the semifinal and it will be Brazil vs Germany/France and Spain vs Argentina (if all favourites win their group of course and no surprises etc etc)
Brazil vs Spain is only possible after the group stage or in the final.

DohLooks like someone at work has set up the spreadsheet incorrectly
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Super Progress

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Super Progress on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:06 pm

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/world-cup/tournament-predictor
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:25 pm

Scolari has just said in an interview that he expects to reach the final and face Argentina. (I'm still watching the interview)
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mongrel hawk

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by mongrel hawk on Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:30 pm

He also said Willian may be a key player for Brazil in 2nd halfs (I think Willian may even replace Oscar as a starter if Oscar doesn't start well).

Brian 2468

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Re: Who is going to be the champions?

Post by Brian 2468 on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:39 pm

Makes sense Brazil Argentina Final nothing wrong in saying this from his point of view.

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