2014 World Cup - Group Stages

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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:15 pm

You'll laugh, but direct, almost "route one"-ish moves have been a big success in this tournament. Of course it's not wise to play that all the time, but there is nothing wrong with trying to surprise the opponent with something unexpected like a precise long ball, particularly effective against high lines of defence.

Every style of football is legitimate. Perfecting it will likely breed success, that's just how this sport is. It's not about one style being superior to the other, but how well a certain style or philosophy is being implemented. If a team is flexible and can play different styles and formations, even better.

A good start to define an "English identity" would be a strong defence, quick wing play and embracing the traditional English fighting spirit. You can add "modern" approaches borrowed from elsewhere, but keep those "traditionally English" strengths.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:16 pm

110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:18 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Cavani is a more experienced Welbeck - you can't see the best of him when he has to play out wide or do defensive duties so you can build the team round other players.

Great assist from him.



Japan were so dissapointing - Seedorf suggesting that they are jet-lagged, perhaps they got hotel/trevel arrangements badly wrong?

Honda wouldn't shoot last night  scratch 

Need to get rid of Zac - Greece were dire too.

All good games today - looking forward to all 3.

Honduras v Ecuador should have a few tackles !


Didn't realise Gremio were so much bigger than Internacional - at least 10 shirts to 1 it seems in Porto Alegre games or maybe they just stand out more ?

They are more or less at the same level, like Milan/Inter.

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:21 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

Did the English at least complain about the conditions?

I should have added their one good player is only 50% fit.

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:23 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Cavani is a more experienced Welbeck


I am not sure who would be more insulted with that comparison, probably Cavani?
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:23 pm

110% wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

Did the English at least complain about the conditions?

I should have added their one good player is only 50% fit.

After being labeled "the big complainers" in Brazil for complaining all the time about everything, I think they realised how ridiculous they were being and stopped doing it.

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:26 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

Did the English at least complain about the conditions?

I should have added their one good player is only 50% fit.

After being labeled "the big complainers" in Brazil for complaining all the time about everything, I think they realised how ridiculous they were being and stopped doing it.

Say "conditions are not ideal in Manaus" is of course a huge complaint about everything in Brazil, all of the time. It's not what they said, it's the way that they said it  tongue 
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:30 pm

110% wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

Did the English at least complain about the conditions?

I should have added their one good player is only 50% fit.

After being labeled "the big complainers" in Brazil for complaining all the time about everything, I think they realised how ridiculous they were being and stopped doing it.

Say "conditions are not ideal in Manaus" is of course a huge complaint about everything in Brazil, all of the time. It's not what they said, it's the way that they said it  tongue 

I'm not gonna make a list for you. All teams that have to play in Manaus talked about the hard conditions. But only one was labeled "reclamões" (big complainers).
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debaser

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by debaser on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:32 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:You'll laugh, but direct, almost "route one"-ish moves have been a big success in this tournament.

indeed, we lost to a pure route 1 goal last night
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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:32 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:You'll laugh, but direct, almost "route one"-ish moves have been a big success in this tournament. Of course it's not wise to play that all the time, but there is nothing wrong with trying to surprise the opponent with something unexpected like a precise long ball, particularly effective against high lines of defence.

Every style of football is legitimate. Perfecting it will likely breed success, that's just how this sport is. It's not about one style being superior to the other, but how well a certain style or philosophy is being implemented. If a team is flexible and can play different styles and formations, even better.

A good start to define an "English identity" would be a strong defence, quick wing play and embracing the traditional English fighting spirit. You can add "modern" approaches borrowed from elsewhere, but keep those "traditionally English" strengths.

I don't laugh, direct football works as long as it isn't too predictable. People think of Sam Allardyce when they think of direct football, but he just has the ball lumped up to 1 man 100 times a game. It's a strange thing in England, we'll wank over Lukaku, Bony, Drogba, and whoever else, but people are disgusted at the idea of playing an English target man, because apparently it's backward and he will will make us play a long ball game. I don't get it at all.

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:33 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

Did the English at least complain about the conditions?

I should have added their one good player is only 50% fit.

After being labeled "the big complainers" in Brazil for complaining all the time about everything, I think they realised how ridiculous they were being and stopped doing it.

Say "conditions are not ideal in Manaus" is of course a huge complaint about everything in Brazil, all of the time. It's not what they said, it's the way that they said it  tongue 

I'm not gonna make a list for you. All teams that have to play in Manaus talked about the hard conditions. But only one was labeled "reclamões" (big complainers).

Admittedly it's difficult to make a list with one complaint  <Ale> 

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:18 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

That's what makes Uruguay so special. Talent wise, they have Godín, Cavani, Suárez and little else. Their performance was hardly impressive, there are at least dozen of teams with more talent than Uruguay...but they have so much heart and desire that they can beat anyone on any give day. Álvaro Pereira refusing to be subbed out says it all. The achievements of Uruguay are amazing, especially considering that they have a population of 3,4 million.

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:35 pm

Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

That's what makes Uruguay so special. Talent wise, they have Godín, Cavani, Suárez and little else. Their performance was hardly impressive, there are at least dozen of teams with more talent than Uruguay...but they have so much heart and desire that they can beat anyone on any give day. Álvaro Pereira refusing to be subbed out says it all. The achievements of Uruguay are amazing, especially considering that they have a population of 3,4 million.

Will Mongrel have read the rest since you say they only have 3 good players. Personally I don't rate Cavani, he runs a lot and misses easy chances. As for Godin he should have been sent off. Basically for me there is only Suarez, who happens to be one of the best players in the world. But yes they did work very hard as a team.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:40 pm

110% wrote:
Formerly known as sheva7 wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
110% wrote:Losing to Uruguay is a disaster as they only have 1 good player.

I stopped reading your post here. It shows you're completly clueless and biased.

That's what makes Uruguay so special. Talent wise, they have Godín, Cavani, Suárez and little else. Their performance was hardly impressive, there are at least dozen of teams with more talent than Uruguay...but they have so much heart and desire that they can beat anyone on any give day. Álvaro Pereira refusing to be subbed out says it all. The achievements of Uruguay are amazing, especially considering that they have a population of 3,4 million.

Will Mongrel have read the rest since you say they only have 3 good players. Personally I don't rate Cavani, he runs a lot and misses easy chances. As for Godin he should have been sent off. Basically for me there is only Suarez, who happens to be one of the best players in the world. But yes they did work very hard as a team.

Since I was born in 1980, England haven't produced one single forward as good as Cavani or Suarez. And Uruguay has a population similar to Birmingham's.

Here's a churrasco uruguaio for you:

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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:42 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:Since I was born in 1980, England haven't produced one single forward as good as Cavani or Suarez.

Well you are clearly forgetting someone then.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:46 pm

Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:Since I was born in 1980, England haven't produced one single forward as good as Cavani or Suarez.

Well you are clearly forgetting someone then.

Maybe Lieneker. I said maybe.

But he played at a time when Euro elagues were weaker because most good South American footballlers played here, so it was much easier to play well in Europe at that time.

 ok 


Last edited by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jaime

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Jaime on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:46 pm

Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:Since I was born in 1980, England haven't produced one single forward as good as Cavani or Suarez.

Well you are clearly forgetting someone then.

Francis Jeffers?

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:48 pm

You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.
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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:52 pm

110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Average of 25 goals a season over 17 seasons > Suarez

Suarez is a great talent, but he doesn't have the longevity to compare yet, and he needs to do more against other top clubs.

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:52 pm

110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Cavani is a world class striker willing to play out of his preferred position for the benefit of the team both at club and international level.

Mentioning all these english players makes you sound like brazilian delusional fans who think that Neymar is as good as Messi and Ronaldo.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:55 pm

110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

A good churrasco begins when the cow is born. The way the cow is brought up, the food it eats, the time it spends roaming in the field instead of locked in an enclosed places. Then, the way it's killed and the way the meats are cut are very important and affect the taste. This is just the beginning. Meat in Brazil/Argentina/Uruguay is different. It's impossible to make a good barbecue in Europe if the meat is not imported from South America. European meat is no good. It's l;ike drinking wine of grapes from China.

As to Cavani, you're underating him.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:57 pm

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Average of 25 goals a season over 17 seasons > Suarez

Suarez is a great talent, but he doesn't have the longevity to compare yet, and he needs to do more against other top clubs.

Those English players of the 80s 90s played in a time when Euro leagues were much weaker cause 90% of the players were Europeans from teh country of the club. The best African and South American players were playing at home. It was much easier to play in Europe at that time.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:59 pm

By the way, until the early 90s the English league was worse than the Brazilian league.
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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:00 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Average of 25 goals a season over 17 seasons > Suarez

Suarez is a great talent, but he doesn't have the longevity to compare yet, and he needs to do more against other top clubs.

Those English players of the 80s 90s played in a time when Euro leagues were much weaker cause 90% of the players were Europeans from teh country of the club. The best African and South American players were playing at home. It was much easier to play in Europe at that time.

I'm talking mid-90s to mid-2000s, the person i'm referring to was still scoring goals when he was old and knackered and the premier league was undoubtedly one of the top 2 leagues in the world.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:07 pm

I think 110% has seen Cavani miss a big chance against Chelsea and England last night, and therefore concluded that Cavani is not very good.

Anyway Uruguay have no good players except Suarez.

Italy have no good players except Pirlo (though i'm not sure 110% rates him because he doesn't believe Pirlo dictates the tempo of a game).

110% Ale
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:10 pm

Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Average of 25 goals a season over 17 seasons > Suarez

Suarez is a great talent, but he doesn't have the longevity to compare yet, and he needs to do more against other top clubs.

Those English players of the 80s 90s played in a time when Euro leagues were much weaker cause 90% of the players were Europeans from teh country of the club. The best African and South American players were playing at home. It was much easier to play in Europe at that time.

I'm talking mid-90s to mid-2000s, the person i'm referring to was still scoring goals when he was old and knackered and the premier league was undoubtedly one of the top 2 leagues in the world.

Owen? A very good player. But no better than Suarez. I prefer Cavani.
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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:11 pm

mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Average of 25 goals a season over 17 seasons > Suarez

Suarez is a great talent, but he doesn't have the longevity to compare yet, and he needs to do more against other top clubs.

Those English players of the 80s 90s played in a time when Euro leagues were much weaker cause 90% of the players were Europeans from teh country of the club. The best African and South American players were playing at home. It was much easier to play in Europe at that time.

I'm talking mid-90s to mid-2000s, the person i'm referring to was still scoring goals when he was old and knackered and the premier league was undoubtedly one of the top 2 leagues in the world.

Owen? A very good player. But no better than Suarez. I prefer Cavani.

I'd forgotten all about Owen  lol!  Reminds me of when he was playing for us.
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mongrel hawk

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by mongrel hawk on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:13 pm

Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Average of 25 goals a season over 17 seasons > Suarez

Suarez is a great talent, but he doesn't have the longevity to compare yet, and he needs to do more against other top clubs.

Those English players of the 80s 90s played in a time when Euro leagues were much weaker cause 90% of the players were Europeans from teh country of the club. The best African and South American players were playing at home. It was much easier to play in Europe at that time.

I'm talking mid-90s to mid-2000s, the person i'm referring to was still scoring goals when he was old and knackered and the premier league was undoubtedly one of the top 2 leagues in the world.

Owen? A very good player. But no better than Suarez. I prefer Cavani.

I'd forgotten all about Owen  lol!  Reminds me of when he was playing for us.

Shearer? Gascoigne?

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:14 pm

Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
mongrel hawk wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:You shouldn't put cavani in the same bracket as Suarez.

England strikers better than cavani: shearer, andy cole, fowler, stan collymore, michael owen, sturridge. Is lineker in your time, add him as well.

England strikers better than suarez: none.

Great, the national cuisine is bbq. So difficult to cook that. Put meat on grill, turn over periodically, guess when it's cooked.

Average of 25 goals a season over 17 seasons > Suarez

Suarez is a great talent, but he doesn't have the longevity to compare yet, and he needs to do more against other top clubs.

Those English players of the 80s 90s played in a time when Euro leagues were much weaker cause 90% of the players were Europeans from teh country of the club. The best African and South American players were playing at home. It was much easier to play in Europe at that time.

I'm talking mid-90s to mid-2000s, the person i'm referring to was still scoring goals when he was old and knackered and the premier league was undoubtedly one of the top 2 leagues in the world.

Owen? A very good player. But no better than Suarez. I prefer Cavani.

I'd forgotten all about Owen  lol!  Reminds me of when he was playing for us.

Shearer was very good, but not as good as Cavani IMO.
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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:16 pm

Shearer, he is the stand out English striker since Lineker, who as far as i'm aware was a pure poacher. The only type of goal Shearer couldn't score was a solo dribble, he did not like dribble. 260 premier league goals, an average of 25 over 17 seasons, with a few career threatening injuries and having to change his style, he was bullying defenders that were rated as some of the best in the world when was old and couldn't run.

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Re: 2014 World Cup - Group Stages

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