The Next England Squad

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Hlebagone

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Hlebagone on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:00 pm

110% wrote:
shazlx wrote:Moved this to here:

110% wrote:
shazlx wrote:Hahaha. So we end the WC with Lampard and Gerrard in the pivot. Hahaha.

Lampard was one of the best players, Wilshire was one of the worst. Says it all really that you think wilshire is england's best midfielder, yet when he plays he's considerably worse than gerrard and lampard.


1 You clearly have never read anything I've written about Wilshere.
2 What you've said is bull shit anyway.

I only got in from work around 60 mins in so can only comment what I saw from there. Lampard played like Carrick normally does against opposition that didn't have to win so put no pressure on the defence and deepest midfielder. And like Carrick in similar situations, Lampard put in a credible screening mdifield sweeper performance. And from what I've read, he did that throughout the match. A rare good England performance from Lampard. Hopefully its his last.

Wilshere from that 60 mins to when he was taken off was pretty positive in everything he did. Some smart and easy ball circulation, some quick one touch play that moved the ball upfield positively and effectively and one great pass that Sturridge should have scored from. The only negative I saw was laziness when tracking back. Very cocky play, expecting others to get the ball.
Having read some stuff about his performance its seems he played like the way he's been playing in the past year. Great forward movement attempting to link play and sometimes succeeding well but a lot of the other times giving the ball away sloppily. Overall giving the midfield good shape with his movement as positioning but lack of energy and tracking back causing problems. And very annoyingly, patheticly falling over a lot from nothing challenges.

All that good midfield shape and cohesion was lost as soon as Gerrard (and Rooney) came on for Wilshere (and Lanana). Just as the players were getting used to each other as well. Dominating the Costa Rican team.
Gerard was terrible when he came on. As bad as you'll ever see him. And Gerrard has been so bad playing in the CM for England that I've very confident that whoever (and I mean whoever) replaces him, including a low talent like Henderson, England's midfield play will significantly improve. He's been that bad. He's actually so bad he makes his midfield partners worse. So much so that the coaches who have done well with him have either kept him away from central midfield and moved him into forward positions (Benitez) or kept the play away from midfield and focused it on the forward players (Rodgers).

With emphasis on
110% wrote:yet when he plays he's considerably worse than gerrard and lampard.
If that's a general comment rather than a specific match, then you're clearly just making shit up. When Wilshere first came into the England team, he pretty much always outplayed the other midfielders, most notably against Brazil. Since his injury problems, he's has a stop start frustrating game play with some genuine creative moments surrounded by lots of sloppy play. But even in his bad days, his movement and positioning give shape and direction to the midfield. Its not enough and I would play others midfielders ahead him until his all round game improves. But those other midfielders are not Gerrard or Lampard.

Gerrard was the best English midfielder last season. Claiming wilshire is England's best midfielder when fit is like saying, cronaldo is the world's best player when messi's not fit. Either you are the best or you're not.

I suggest you read what wilshire said about himself. He's admitted he is shite and soon to be 23 so he can't considered young any more.

I suggest you look at this:
http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/789640/Live
Pretty clearly supports my view that wilshire was one of the worst players, only marginally better than gerrard who was obviously still upset of england going out etc.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. IN AN ARGUMENT WHERE 110% CLAIMS THAT GERRARD IS BETTER THAN WILSHERE HE LINKS AN ARTICLE WHERE WILSHERE IS BETTER THAN GERRARD. WHO THE FUCK WOULD DO THAT?????

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:04 pm

It's clear we were talking a specific game, where I have admitted gerrard was poor and wilshire only marginally better, learn to read. Shaz on the other hand thinks that wilshire is the best english midfielder, when messi is not fit
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:15 pm

110% wrote:It's clear we were talking a specific game, where I have admitted gerrard was poor and wilshire only marginally better, learn to read. Shaz on the other hand thinks that wilshire is the best english midfielder, when [he's] fit
I never said that. Still, its true so I might as well have. Though irrelevant as we have to see him stay fit for long enough for it to matter. I've said the best performing central midfielder for England has been Cleverly and for this tournament I would have partnered him with Barry or Huddlestone.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:18 pm

110% wrote:I don't know why don't you ask them? I only know that I've been robbed of my rightful place in the centre of England's midfield because gerrard is a big name playing for a fashionable club.

What i'm saying is that going forward I want us to look for a genuine DM to play alongside Henderson, because for England Gerrard has not been up to it, sorry if you think that is loony. If the best genuine DM plays for Hull, then pick him.

There's no coherent plan for England, what sort of striker do we want to play and why? Do we want wingers or not? What sort of CB's and FB's do we want? We look at the names first and how they can fit in second. Sticking Rooney on the left in one game, then switching him and Sterling in the 2nd just stunk of a team with no clear idea of what it's supposed to be. I'm sure Liverpool fans will point at Hodgson, and I agree that he should go, but it's the same for all England managers, and it will be the same in 2016 if we make it.

I hold other players to the same standard as Gerrard by the way, the Rooney you see for Man Utd is good enough for England, but for England he has not been good enough, so he would be benched in my squad, and if he was Gerrard's age I would retire him.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:33 am

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:I don't know why don't you ask them? I only know that I've been robbed of my rightful place in the centre of England's midfield because gerrard is a big name playing for a fashionable club.

What i'm saying is that going forward I want us to look for a genuine DM to play alongside Henderson, because for England Gerrard has not been up to it, sorry if you think that is loony. If the best genuine DM plays for Hull, then pick him.

There's no coherent plan for England, what sort of striker do we want to play and why? Do we want wingers or not? What sort of CB's and FB's do we want? We look at the names first and how they can fit in second. Sticking Rooney on the left in one game, then switching him and Sterling in the 2nd just stunk of a team with no clear idea of what it's supposed to be. I'm sure Liverpool fans will point at Hodgson, and I agree that he should go, but it's the same for all England managers, and it will be the same in 2016 if we make it.

I hold other players to the same standard as Gerrard by the way, the Rooney you see for Man Utd is good enough for England, but for England he has not been good enough, so he would be benched in my squad, and if he was Gerrard's age I would retire him.

I don't think you're loony, just wrong, and clearly blinded by your hatred. Gerrard was poor at the world cup, but before the world cup any sane person had him in the England team. In hindsight I would happily have had Livermore in the team alongside gerrard and henderson, helping them out defensively, instead of Welbeck. But actually any 3rd midfielder would have done, because that is what England were missing. If you're proposing a 2-man livermore-henderson midfield, it's really obvious to see where that doesn't work. It means England not being able to develop play, just a lot of running around and hoofing the ball forward to Rooney. If you're proposing a livermore-huddlestonne midfield, that's just a worse version of what England had with henderson-gerrard.

You should just accept that Gerrard was the best genuine DM option based on the past season, but I don't only see one type of DM: the tiote style hacker, but also the alonso type: runs less, hacks less, but passes better
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:46 am

"Gerrard is our Pirlo"
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Roger Hunt

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Roger Hunt on Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:26 am

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:"Gerrard is our Pirlo"

Yeah - both going home <Ale>
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:33 pm

110% wrote:I don't think you're loony, just wrong, and clearly blinded by your hatred. Gerrard was poor at the world cup, but before the world cup any sane person had him in the England team. In hindsight I would happily have had Livermore in the team alongside gerrard and henderson, helping them out defensively, instead of Welbeck. But actually any 3rd midfielder would have done, because that is what England were missing. If you're proposing a 2-man livermore-henderson midfield, it's really obvious to see where that doesn't work. It means England not being able to develop play, just a lot of running around and hoofing the ball forward to Rooney. If you're proposing a livermore-huddlestonne midfield, that's just a worse version of what England had with henderson-gerrard.

You should just accept that Gerrard was the best genuine DM option based on the past season, but I don't only see one type of DM: the tiote style hacker, but also the alonso type: runs less, hacks less, but passes better

I said I would play Gerrard at this tournament, ideally he would've been retired after either 2010 or 2012, but he wasn't, he played the qualifying campaign, and you would think he would have some sort of understanding with Henderson(or not), so I was happy for him to play. I'm saying I wouldn't play him in future, and yes I would prefer a 3 man midfield, we had no idea what sort of players we wanted those 3 behind the striker to be.

As for Gerrard being a genuine DM option, I don't think i'll ever see him as one. I mean what sort of DM is he supposed to be? He's not a good tackler and doesn't read the game very well. Surely you don't see him as the Alonso type? In fact Huddlestone is the closest we have to that sort of player.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:21 pm

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:I don't think you're loony, just wrong, and clearly blinded by your hatred. Gerrard was poor at the world cup, but before the world cup any sane person had him in the England team. In hindsight I would happily have had Livermore in the team alongside gerrard and henderson, helping them out defensively, instead of Welbeck. But actually any 3rd midfielder would have done, because that is what England were missing. If you're proposing a 2-man livermore-henderson midfield, it's really obvious to see where that doesn't work. It means England not being able to develop play, just a lot of running around and hoofing the ball forward to Rooney. If you're proposing a livermore-huddlestonne midfield, that's just a worse version of what England had with henderson-gerrard.

You should just accept that Gerrard was the best genuine DM option based on the past season, but I don't only see one type of DM: the tiote style hacker, but also the alonso type: runs less, hacks less, but passes better

I said I would play Gerrard at this tournament, ideally he would've been retired after either 2010 or 2012, but he wasn't, he played the qualifying campaign, and you would think he would have some sort of understanding with Henderson(or not), so I was happy for him to play. I'm saying I wouldn't play him in future, and yes I would prefer a 3 man midfield, we had no idea what sort of players we wanted those 3 behind the striker to be.

As for Gerrard being a genuine DM option, I don't think i'll ever see him as one. I mean what sort of DM is he supposed to be? He's not a good tackler and doesn't read the game very well. Surely you don't see him as the Alonso type? In fact Huddlestone is the closest we have to that sort of player.

He probably should retire, but Hodgson is putting pressure on him to continue. He might feel obliged because at the moment there is no-one decent to replace him. I assume your joking about huddlestonne, because gerrard is a far better than huddlestonne at just about everything except balancing a pineapple on his head. You might not rate gerrard's tackling, but it's still better than huddlestonne who probably can't get near enough to a player to make a tackle. Gerrard has got old and doesn't have the speed or energy that he used to, but Huddlestonne never had it in the first place. Anyway I am told it's all about interceptions these days, hence busquets never making a tackle is no barrier to being declared the best DM in the world Wink. Gerrard has played in several different positions well, therefore for me he reads the game very well, otherwise he wouldn't know when and where to run, or where he should be compared to other players etc. Much easier to play one position well, than several. For me the role Gerrard plays now is more like alonso's than pirlo's, as pirlo doesn't have that defensive responsibility.

Huddlestonne, strikes a ball well and that's about all there is to him. He is not particularly strong defensively or offensively, doesn't have the speed or energy for midfield, and doesn't have the vision for a manager to build a team around him. He is like the jan molby of the 21st century, and we'd be laughing at joan molby if he played football right now.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:39 pm

I don't want to sound like TS but I do think Huddlestone is the best English passer of the ball around right now, but again I expect I rate Gerrard's passing lower than you do, he's capable of playing good passes but isn't very good at deciding when to do it. Huddlestone does have obvious weaknesses though, he has the turning circle of the costa concordia, which is why i've never really been a huge fan. If you play him I think you need to put 2 athletic CM's alongside him like France do with Cabaye, problem is they have Pogba, Matuidi, and Sissoko, we don't even have 1 player like this.
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ERIK LAMELA

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by ERIK LAMELA on Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:08 pm

Kimbo, Henderson would be one of the players alongside Huddlestone.

Then it's just a matter of finding another fackin' runner. Livermore?
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debaser

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by debaser on Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:14 pm

Delph Ale

Brian 2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian 2468 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:19 pm

With Gerrard he always required another two midfielders to cover and help out. This season at pool they overly relied on good offensive clout. Which England do not have. Sturridge was going off heat by the end of the season as well.
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DD

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by DD on Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:02 pm

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ERIK LAMELA

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by ERIK LAMELA on Sun Jun 29, 2014 12:06 pm

It just shows passion, which was sorely lacking all tournament.

England need Tim Sherwood to take charge of the team.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:03 pm


Whoever it was managed to find the whitest looking black guy i've ever seen to racially abuse.
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:28 pm

Pretty amazing how well he seemed to take having his earlobe bitten off!

To be fair, the reason the video was released was all the other England fans desperate to catch him. Its not like thats the norm. Wembley on match day is safer/quieter than a kindergarten these days.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:22 pm

Typical of hooligans though, go in numbers and pick on a guy much smaller than you. The reality is far different from the "stand your ground" BS they faked in movies like greenstreet pussies.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:29 pm

ERIK LAMELA wrote:Kimbo, Henderson would be one of the players alongside Huddlestone.

Then it's just a matter of finding another fackin' runner. Livermore?

The problem is that we know that a 3-man midfield won't happen except by accident. Hodgson has to crowbar rooney, barkley, sterling, sturridge into the team, I think Henderson and wilshire are in his plans, so that doesn't really leave a lot of room for huddlestonne and livermore. A more realistic hope would be for someone good to emerge over the next couple of years, or cleverley to improve.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:51 pm

110% wrote:Typical of hooligans though, go in numbers and pick on a guy much smaller than you. The reality is far different from the "stand your ground" BS they faked in movies like greenstreet pussies.

I've never seen footage of hooligans having a proper fight, they just seem to throw things from a crowd, hit people from behind, and try to corner someone with their mates(like Gerrard the lionheart did with that DJ).

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:06 pm

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:Typical of hooligans though, go in numbers and pick on a guy much smaller than you. The reality is far different from the "stand your ground" BS they faked in movies like greenstreet pussies.

I've never seen footage of hooligans having a proper fight, they just seem to throw things from a crowd, hit people from behind, and try to corner someone with their mates(like Gerrard the lionheart did with that DJ).

I think you might be a bit obsessed with gerrard, kimbo, you can't help putting him in every post
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:09 pm

110% wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:Typical of hooligans though, go in numbers and pick on a guy much smaller than you. The reality is far different from the "stand your ground" BS they faked in movies like greenstreet pussies.

I've never seen footage of hooligans having a proper fight, they just seem to throw things from a crowd, hit people from behind, and try to corner someone with their mates(like Gerrard the lionheart did with that DJ).

I think you might be a bit obsessed with gerrard, kimbo, you can't help putting him in every post

You know what, I wrote that sentence and he popped into my head, what can I say, i'm not wrong.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:59 am

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:Typical of hooligans though, go in numbers and pick on a guy much smaller than you. The reality is far different from the "stand your ground" BS they faked in movies like greenstreet pussies.

I've never seen footage of hooligans having a proper fight, they just seem to throw things from a crowd, hit people from behind, and try to corner someone with their mates(like Gerrard the lionheart did with that DJ).

I think you might be a bit obsessed with gerrard, kimbo, you can't help putting him in every post

You know what, I wrote that sentence and he popped into my head, what can I say, i'm not wrong.

Strangely I've always respected him more for doing that. Bar/Club DJs have always annoyed me. They get paid for pressing play on a CD player, ipod or whatever. Some even become celebrities from playing other people's music. It just seems so wrong. Someone stepped up and gave a DJ a slap, that person did a good thing.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:34 pm

It wasn't someone, it was a group.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:26 pm

Kimbo wrote:It wasn't someone, it was a group.

ok the group did a good thing, but gerrard was integral to the group doing it, so motm award for him Wink

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:58 pm

Not sure where to put this, but wanted to point out Woy the 6 million dollar man!!:
http://www.businessinsider.com/world-cup-coaches-salaries-2014-6#ixzz36TZMb84b

Here is the salary for every coach at the World Cup:

Fabio Capello, Russia $11,235,210
Roy Hodgson, England $5,874,570
Cesare Prandelli, Italy $4,322,010
Luiz Felipe Scolari, Brazil $3,973,730
Ottmar Hitzfeld, Switzerland $3,745,130
Joachim Lw, Germany $3,602,460
Vicente del Bosque, Spain $3,386,270
Louis van Gaal, Netherlands $2,738,060
Alberto Zaccheroni, Japan $2,727,480
Jurgen Klinsmann, United States $2,621,740
Didier Deschamps, France $2,161,000
Paulo Bento, Portugal $2,160,170
Carlos Queiroz, Iran $2,098,060
Jorge Sampaoli, Chile $1,774,960
Jose Pekerman, Colombia $1,678,450
Ange Postecoglou, Australia $1,395,300
scar Tabrez, Uruguay $1,258,840
Sabri Lamouchi, Ivory Coast $1,037,450
Vahid Halilhodić, Algeria $1,007,070
Marc Wilmots, Belgium $864,400
Fernando Santos, Greece $864,400
Alejandro Sabella, Argentina $818,240
Hong Myung-bo, South Korea $795,250
Luis Fernando Surez, Honduras $629,420
Reinaldo Rueda, Ecuador $566,480
Jorge Luis Pinto, Costa Rica $440,590
Volke Finke, Cameroon $394,440
Stephen Keshi, Nigeria $392,420
Safet Susic, Bosnia and Herzegovina $352,470
Niko Kovac, Croatia $271,740
James Kwesi Appiah, Ghana $251,770
Miguel Herrera, Mexico $209,810

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:00 pm

And of course the previous England coach Capello <Ale>

Wonder if he still gets money from the FA?
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Jaime

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Jaime on Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:49 pm

That's all the Mexicans are paying Herrera? Good god it would take just about that much to maintain that glorious mane of hair!
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Murray

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Murray on Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:57 pm

3 highest paid managers all went out in the 1st round
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:18 pm

Murray wrote:3 highest paid managers all went out in the 1st round

And only 1 had the integrity to resign.

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