The Next England Squad

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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:06 pm

I think Colback has a higher pass % than all of them, but he's dogshit. Stats, especially when it comes to CM's, are so so so dependent on the teams style of play.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:35 pm

Henry Winter

‎@henrywinter

#eng v #ger: Butland; Clyne, Cahill, Smalling, Rose; Alli, Dier, Henderson; Lallana, Kane, Welbeck.


Oof, it was all going so well until I saw the donkey at the end.
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:31 pm

Di Caniooooo! wrote:

He's the best all around CM for England.
👍

First off, no mention of number of games played. Second, passing accuracy depends on the role being played. We have centre backs with 90%+ percentages for completion because they are passing it to Dier and Dembele 5 feet away versus Alli who has one in the 70-80 range because his role is to play much riskier / difficult passes, and coincidentally now has the most assists of any player in the league this year.

The way midfield tactics has evolved the requirement for an allround midfielder is much less important than it used to be. Noble isn't really an outstanding attacking midfielder and he isn't really isn't an outstanding defensive minded one either, he's a 6/7 out of 10 player at both and could definitely "do a job" (Id prefer him over Milner), but isn't going to turn England into a much better team at the expense of say Barkely/Alli (AM) or Dier/drinkwater (DM).

I will agree on Cresswell's lack of a call up given Bertrand has just pulled out injured - Cresswell has been very very good and deserves a look in over Baines who hasn't been good since 2013.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by christmasborocooper on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:09 am

Can't believe we're going to win the Euros.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:44 am

I always hate to be negative, but even when Germany were 2-0 up I felt they had never got out of first gear, they really don't give a shit about friendlies or us. That said it was a bad night for Rooney and Welbeck, Kane and Vardy showed them up. Bad night for the defence aswell, they looked shit.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by christmasborocooper on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:52 am

They did yeah, thought Rose did fine but not the rest.

Midfield looked decent, Kane and Vardy looked like actual strikers.

But yeah obviously, just a friendly that they didn't really put lots of effort into. Still, we did actually half decent
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:32 pm

Very excited by that performance... So Rooney and Wheelchair will come straight back in.
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:17 pm

Obviously it was a friendly and yes Germany will be better in the tournament, but anyone who believes the German team would've just let that happen is mad: losing at home to England even in a friendly is something they absolutely did not plan on doing. They just couldn't stop that second half blitz, England just suddenly clicked as if there was no longer anything left to lose and threw caution to the wind. Which is the best approach given the defence is suspect so why play conservative? In the first half so many passes were ending up back with the keeper hitting long balls - then Butland got injured as a result of one of those and at 2-0 down I guess the instruction was to play more expansively and balls started getting played from defence between the lines to midfield with attacking running into space and then suddenly we started carving Germany's defence open at will. I just don't think they were expecting it at all - particularly the aggressive high press which we can thank Pochettino and Klopp for given the majority of players in the attacking third either Liverpool or Spurs so have become used to playing that way.

Proves to me that as long as Roy doesn't try to crowbar Rooney back in there then we have a very healthy squad going forward, not so healthy at the back. We will concede a lot this summer I think but if we take our chances we will also not struggle for goals , which should be the major difference versus 2014 World Cup.
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debaser

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by debaser on Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:11 pm

Kane has to be first choice over Rooney now.

Think as it stands (and injuries permitting) the squad/team for Euros will look like this:

Hart/Forster/Butland
Clyne/Walker-Smalling/Stones-Cahill/Jagielka-Rose/Baines
Dier/Delph-Henderson/Milner
Vardy/Welbeck-Alli/Barkley-Sterling/Lallana
Kane/Rooney

may well leave out Walker for another midfielder such as Ox, as Dier can also cover defence.

Delph and Sterling are question marks with injury. If no Sterling, it's a lucky break for Walcott. Can't see him bringing back Lennon, even if he's been in form and Townsend finally seems to be out of the equation

Sturridge would be one missing out. I can see the case for finding room for him if he is close to fully fit as he is quality but with Kane and Vardy form, Rooney experience & Welbeck's useful all-round game you struggle to see him being picked ahead of any of them.
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:54 pm

Agree about Sturridge, especially given we know 100percent certain that Rooney and Wilshere will both get taken if they overcome injury in the next 11 weeks before the Russia game. Hodgson is going to take those two even if they haven't proven themselves fully fit over a number of games prior, because he is so enamoured with their contributions to date. Therefore taking another injury prone player in Sturridge would be idiotic even by Hodgson's standards.
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shazlx

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by shazlx on Sun Mar 27, 2016 8:40 pm

Deluded F*ck wrote:Very excited by that performance... So Rooney and Wheelchair will come straight back in.
Wilshere should definitely come in ahead of Henderson, but Drinkwater should be tried next to Dier.

For the record, going on past performances, Wilshere only needs a few games to get back into form so being out for the season shouldn't be an issue if he at least plays a few games. Dier/ Drinkwater & Wilshere + Alli or Dier & Drinkwater + Alli should be the starting midfield for England. Henderson is still to play single good game for England.
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debaser

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by debaser on Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:06 pm

Isco Benny wrote:Agree about Sturridge, especially given we know 100percent certain that Rooney and Wilshere will both get taken if they overcome injury in the next 11 weeks before the Russia game. Hodgson is going to take those two even if they haven't proven themselves fully fit over a number of games prior, because he is so enamoured with their contributions to date. Therefore taking another injury prone player in Sturridge would be idiotic even by Hodgson's standards.

Yup. And add Welbeck: only just back from bad injury; Sterling: injured and won't be back til May at earliest. And a number of others currently injured who would be likely picks: Delph, Ox, Bertrand, Jones, Hart, now Butland

A few of them will get in but you can't risk having too many players who may not be fully fit. I think he's more like to risk a returning Sterling & Rooney than Sturridge who has history of picking up multiple injuries.

It would seem a bit absurd if Wilshere ends up going after not playing all season. But admittedly we are not overwhelmed with options in CM. Dier, Alli, Henderson, Milner, Barkley all nailed on for a spot but outside of them it's slim pickings and you'd probably want a couple more in a tournament squad. Players like Delph, Cleverley, Mason, Ox, Shelvey all either mixed form or not been playing regularly. Carrick's getting on and seems out of favour. Drinkwater has got in latest squad but I can't see him being picked for a tournament. Hodgson will probably take 2 from Delph, Ox, Wilshere depending on fitness, with Carrick a fallback option.
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:00 pm

Kimbo wrote:I always hate to be negative, but even when Germany were 2-0 up I felt they had never got out of first gear, they really don't give a shit about friendlies or us. That said it was a bad night for Rooney and Welbeck, Kane and Vardy showed them up. Bad night for the defence aswell, they looked shit.

A bad night for Welbeck ?

He would have had 2 of their back 4 booked in the 1st half if that were a competitive game.

Top scorer in qualifying and scored the 2 in our hardest game when he got to play CF - imagine Rooney, Kane etc regularly playing in their 2nd or 3rd choice (Italy '14) position and how well would they do.

A diamond makes a lot of sense.

Our strengths are centre forward options (kane, welbeck, vardy, sturridge) so get 2 instead of 1 and the athleticism and attacking intent of our FB's Clyne/Walker & Rose.

Our weaknesses are midfield (every tournament since '02) so get as many numbers in there as poss and our wingers our injured out of form.

I wouldn't get carried away with our chances because debating vardy or welbeck or rooney or sturridge and how bad our Cb's are is academic.

If you look at tournaments in last 10 years:

Spain 2 EC win & WC win
Italy WC win and EC runner up
Germany WC win and EC runnerup.

All of these teams have had weaknesses and even been inferior to England at FB, Forwards but its the midfield that wins you tournaments.

As brilliant as messi is this is why he doesn't perform to same level for arg 'cos he hasn't got that midfield backing him up like club level.

Italy win with Pirlo/De Rossi, Germany with Kroos/Schweini, Spain Senna/Alonso/Iniesta/Xavi/Busquets

We don't have players like that - they control the game and flatter the CB's and CF's with good protection and service.

This is why you can win the big ones with shit like Howedes and Klose in your team.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:39 pm

He nearly got 2 players booked? That's a good night for Welbeck? No wonder some out there still rate him if that is the standard. I had some guy trying to tell me he's a flair player before the Germany game, I nearly had a stroke.

Brian 2468

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Brian 2468 on Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:29 pm

True about being strong and fluid in midfield has been the hallmark of Spain's team less so for Germany they widened the scope of play beyond having the most powerful midfield in the world to beat Spain they had finesse all over the park.
England has improved mainly in the quality in depth like mentioned we should at least be able to compete in the finals better.
The high pressing play adopted has been part of the England set up for a few years it's the quaility play this way that's come through we just never had it in the past. High pressing requires the hole team to know instinctively how to play the old guard could not carry this out. Pochettino for Spurs has given England a boost supplying backs and middle players and a forward use to playing that way.add other young or capable players to this mix has changed our playing style positively I hope.
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:01 pm

Kimbo wrote:He nearly got 2 players booked? That's a good night for Welbeck? No wonder some out there still rate him if that is the standard. I had some guy trying to tell me he's a flair player before the Germany game, I nearly had a stroke.

He WOULD have got half their back 4 booked in 1st half if it was a proper game and he set up a great chance for Henderson out of nothing - yes that is the standard if you are playing out of position.

If he is playing in his position you can set the standard higher - eg score a brace away from home in the toughest qualifier Smile
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:26 pm

He had a great chance to score a goal last night, but he has shitty instincts so stood there like a rock waiting for the ball to come to him, and ofcourse a dirty Jorman got there first.


My strikers would be Kane, Vardy, Defoe, Carroll, and Rooney
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:18 pm

Kimbo wrote:He had a great chance to score a goal last night, but he has shitty instincts so stood there like a rock waiting for the ball to come to him, and ofcourse a dirty Jorman got there first.


My strikers would be Kane, Vardy, Defoe, Carroll, and Rooney

Ahead of Welbeck ? lol!
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:43 pm

I don't think Welbeck brings anything to the table, I don't rate him at all, I think he runs well and that's it. Vardy can do what he does twice as well, so what's the point?

Defoe has good instincts in the box, Welbeck doesn't.
Carroll can be a good option off the bench with his aerial threat, better than Welbeck.
Rooney is versatile, I'd trust him in AM or out wide over Welbeck any day.
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Luis

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Luis on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:12 pm

Kane, Vardy, Sturridge, Rooney.

5th choice striker is a pointless discussion really.

The England team should be this if everyone is fit:

------------------------------Hart-----------------------------------------

----Flanagan-----------Stones--------------Cahill--------------Rose---------------------

-------------------Henderson--------------Milner---------------------------------------

--------Sturridge--------------------Alli------------------------Sterling------------------

----------------------------------Kane-------------------------------------------------

The midfield 2 is a serious weakness. England have a lot of good attacking players now: Barkley, Lallana, Alli etc but the 2 centrally are not of the top quality. Henderson is way too inconsistent and pretty poor in front of goal.

Flanagan is better than Clyne and Walker but depends if he gets enough game time for Hodgson to consider him.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:53 pm

Who is Flanagan? Does he play abroad?

stinger

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by stinger on Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:03 am

4-2-3-1, with Henderson and Milner as pivotes and Sturridge out wide. Good luck with that.


Flanagan better than Walker & Clyne lol!


Pierre got it right when defending Diamond chosen by Hodgson, it makes sense with current crop of players. Not sure about Welbeck discussion - I got that Kimbo is living in the past with "striker is as good as his scoring record bullshit", but his idea of taking 5 different types of strikers is actually a good one for tournament (if you plan to play 2 every time) and Vardy indeed can do what Welbeck does.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:17 am

I don't think a striker is necessarily better if he scores more goals, how dare you. At Newcastle there is a debate over whether to play Mitrovic or Cisse the poacher, I would go Mitrovic every time. If that's in reference to Defoe it's because he's been able to carve out chances and half chances in a dogshit Sam Allardyce team, it's impressive.

The thing with England is you can guarantee we will be outplayed in games, we will be entering the last 20 minutes chasing a game after being rogered, and we're going to need players that can make an impact from the bench. It's an argument against taking Rooney, because if he's not good enough to start, and he can't do it coming off the bench, then what's the point. But we know he will start anyway and everyone else will have to work around him, so it's a pointless debate really.

stinger

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by stinger on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:48 am

No, it was reference to you disliking Welbeck - his all around game in my opinion is indeed really good.

Defoe from the bench makes sense, just like Carroll (in a different role of course). And Rooney doesn't. I agree 100% on this.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:57 am

I'd rather have Welbeck than Rooney for Spurs, if we are going down that route.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:29 pm

Deluded F*ck wrote:I'd rather have Welbeck than Rooney for Spurs, if we are going down that route.

You would rather have neither though wouldn't you, admit it. tongue
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:09 pm

Kimbo wrote:
Deluded F*ck wrote:I'd rather have Welbeck than Rooney for Spurs, if we are going down that route.

You would rather have neither though wouldn't you, admit it. tongue

Nah, I'd take Welbeck. I'm a fan Ale
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:15 pm

I'm going to write to Daniel Levy telling him that if a man called "Deluded f**k" ever applies to be director of football at Spurs, he should hire him.
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Isco Benny

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:02 pm

If picking Welbeck means Roy leaves Walcott behind then I'm all for it.

That first 11 Luis has picked must be a wind up.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:48 pm



They just aren't what they used to be. If it's Dutch, it ain't much. Ale

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