The Next England Squad

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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:26 pm

110% wrote:I was talking about terry playing in this particular tournament, not for the future. I couldn't be bothered to quote the relevant bits from yours, pierre's and TS's posts. I think gerrard should definitely retire, no point continuing while Hodgson is manager, and playing a 2-man midfield.

I don't only pick players from big clubs, I think it should be the best player regardless which club he plays for. The best players do tend to play for the biggest clubs though, so excluding those players seems idiotic. I don't have any hatred for shawcross, cleverley etc the way you do for gerrard. If they'd had the season gerrard had just had, I would have been happy to see them in the England team, and I would notice that the manager was a bit clueless about how to get the best out of them.

So basically you think Gerrard should stay and Hodgson should go? tongue

Maybe Terry could have played this tournament with the absence of a promising young player available, but then maybe he shouldn't have retired from international football, he had made himself unavailable for selection. I don't really think it would have made a difference though due to his past performances.

I'm not for excluding players from big clubs, i'm for excluding players that have proven they can't do it at a tournament for us regardless of the club they are at. The best English players often are at a big club, but it's clear that simply being at a big club doesn't mean you are the best choice for the team.

I wouldn't say I hate Gerrard, I hate the way the press treat him, I don't rate him as highly as most, and he has proven in the past to be a pretty unpleasant person. I've no reason to kiss his arse especially when he puts in poor performances.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:28 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Good point, it was contradictory - but he would get slaughtered for leaving Sturridge or Rooney out like Sven/Capello would have for leaving out Lampard/Gerrard in '04, '06 & '10.

Shawcross is a hoofer - should be Cahill with Stones or Jones (they should still go U21's in Czech rep next summer) and people should be more encouraging of them.

Jones and Cahill aren't exactly silky defenders, and Stones is a child, plus it still leaves the defence without an organiser.
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DD

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by DD on Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:27 pm

Rosicky wrote:Capello was a great success wasnt he Luis Ale

Please read that F365 article and get back to me, we have tried EVERYTHING, and they all failed <Ale>
Even though plenty of the points ring true, I do think that article is more defeatist than realistic. And they still don't really cover grassroots coaching which should be the main point.

As for trying a foreign coach, first you got Erickson than Capello. Erickson isn't a fantastic coach, he's not a great tactitian, he doens't correct his mistakes fast enough with substitutions, and doesn't select on form (or philosophy) he just picked the people the press want. He's a man manager at best.
Using Capello as an example that foreign managers don't work is lazy. The man is a dinosaur, and loaded. I completely disagree he didn't have good enough players at his disposal. He just wasn't bothered enough. If I'm not mistaken he never even went to the North East to watch players, but just stayed in cozy London if he was went to game. This is a guy who never implemented a philosophy, mostly looked at the star players and just picked them again. You even got the magnificent Lampard-Gerrard midfield couple of times. How many young players did he introduce? He also declared picking players on form but in the end he was SGE II and chose name players again. He barely put in a shift. He did the bare minimum, kept the media happy with their darlings and just didn't give a shit. His game strategies were generally below par, his substitutions way too late. And his name pretty much untarnished.
To use Capello (and Erickson) as standard examples of foreign coaches is just lazy. There are many qualified foreign coaches (better than MacClaren and Hodgson) who are willing to do more than the bare minimum, willing to drop media darlings, willing (and knowing how) to implement a philosophy, knowing how to mold the best team with the available players, blooding in younger players that are ready for the step up and willing to pick players on form and past national team performances.

Also, it's not only the media who are fixated on star players, but also a big part of the English public.

England is not lost, but some things have got to change.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:45 pm

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christmasborocooper

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by christmasborocooper on Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:49 pm

lol!
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Fey

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Fey on Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:50 pm

...dat country...
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debaser

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by debaser on Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:59 pm

Doh
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ERIK LAMELA

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by ERIK LAMELA on Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:04 pm

Too (W)right!

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:35 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:
110% wrote:
Pierre Littbarski wrote:Cole, Ferdinand and Campbell, who I don't like, performed well at tournaments.


The problem is people look around and say there are worse teams than us performing well.

Football is obviously a combination of individual brilliance and team work - its rare that a team can win Euro's without the former (Greece '04, Denmark without Laudrup '92) but you will need both to win a WC.

Costa Rica, USA, Iran have good team work but not the individual that will make a difference whereas Holland/Robben, Argentina/Messi, France/Pogba, Krauts/Kroos or Schweini could do it.

England, in the truest sense of the word, are the worst team in the whole tournament.

Its not that they are not a team as in won't fight, haven't got the spirit but that their attributes/skills sets don't fit together to make a team and Roy can't do that much about that.

Gerrard and Lampard were always goal-scoring AM's who were crowbarred in to CM together so that they are futher from goal and you lose the goal scoring threat - no real point in thsoe players if you do that.

Even now if you ask what position in a 4-5-1 is best for Rooney, Sturridge, Welbeck you have the same answer for all 3 - the 1.

So why do 3 of them start - it should be 1 surely ?

Henderson has been great in an advanced role but is tied down to CM due to lack of alternatives and because the position he played for Liverpool is close to what Rooney played v Uruguay and you can't drop a big name.


Barkley and Sterling shouldn't play because they don't have the experience so make poor decisions despite impressive talent.

However if Roy had gone in with:

2 from Barry, Carrrick, Huddlestone, Wilshere, Cleverley

Milner-Henderson-Lallana

Sturridge/Rooney/Welbeck

The same people who are slaughtering him now would slaughter him for leaving out Gerrard and whichever of Rooney and Sturridge he chose to bench.

Van Gaal is the only one who could do this impossible job and would be very amusing with our media.

I don't know if you actually understand what you write, but some things are the national team manager's job. It's what he gets paid millions to do. One of those things is to come up with the best system to suit the players he has. Roy can't do much about that??? That's his job Very Happy

As for the question of 3 from 1, again the manager's job or not?

Basically you are saying that Hodgson didn't do his job, but you'll blame the players.

Good point, it was contradictory - but he would get slaughtered for leaving Sturridge or Rooney out like Sven/Capello would have for leaving out Lampard/Gerrard in '04, '06 & '10.

Shawcross is a hoofer - should be Cahill with Stones or Jones (they should still go U21's in Czech rep next summer) and people should be more encouraging of them.

I understand Hodgson took the safe route. If he dropped Rooney, and England went out, Hodgson would get the blame. Instead he played rooney, went with an unbalanced team, and is now letting the players take the blame.

I don't blame rooney for wanting to play or for playing very poor in the first game, I blame hodgson for playing him, and not being able to balance the team and protect the defence. The lack of protection for the defence was apparent ion both games. For me it is all on Hodgson. Some people are happy that England did at least attack, compared to the last world cup, but I'd rather they attacked a bit less, were a bit more balanced and and got out of the group.

There is a defeatist attitude amongst the fans, talking about wish-washy crap like players who play in champions league finals being "mentally fragile", technical ability etc. This England team had the ability (both technical and mental) to get out of the group, and the reason they didn't is because the manager got it wrong.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:04 pm

Kimbo wrote:
110% wrote:I was talking about terry playing in this particular tournament, not for the future. I couldn't be bothered to quote the relevant bits from yours, pierre's and TS's posts. I think gerrard should definitely retire, no point continuing while Hodgson is manager, and playing a 2-man midfield.

I don't only pick players from big clubs, I think it should be the best player regardless which club he plays for. The best players do tend to play for the biggest clubs though, so excluding those players seems idiotic. I don't have any hatred for shawcross, cleverley etc the way you do for gerrard. If they'd had the season gerrard had just had, I would have been happy to see them in the England team, and I would notice that the manager was a bit clueless about how to get the best out of them.

So basically you think Gerrard should stay and Hodgson should go? tongue

Maybe Terry could have played this tournament with the absence of a promising young player available, but then maybe he shouldn't have retired from international football, he had made himself unavailable for selection. I don't really think it would have made a difference though due to his past performances.

I'm not for excluding players from big clubs, i'm for excluding players that have proven they can't do it at a tournament for us regardless of the club they are at. The best English players often are at a big club, but it's clear that simply being at a big club doesn't mean you are the best choice for the team.

I wouldn't say I hate Gerrard, I hate the way the press treat him, I don't rate him as highly as most, and he has proven in the past to be a pretty unpleasant person. I've no reason to kiss his arse especially when he puts in poor performances.

Hodgson is staying so there isn't that option tongue

When people are making ridiculous comments like Gerrard's never had a good game for England it just shows hatred rather than a balanced view of a player, because a balanced view would acknowledge that he was the only decent England player at Euro 2012, and yes ashley cole was there (missed one of the penalties against Italy). Gerrard was also in the team of the tournament. Incidentally that team was not picked by the press but an eleven-man technical team of UEFA who have been following all the matches. Also a team that rio did not get into in 2002, while the hipsters like to suck his balls for that tournament it was campbell that led that defence and performed the better of the two.

As for big name players not performing for England, I guess you were calling for geordie legend shearer to be dropped for not scoring for England for about 2 years? He was taking another striker's position. He was obviously mentally fragile, and didn't the heart for it any more. Then by some miracle he was top scorer at Euro96. Mentally fragile lol!, who comes up with this BS.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:13 pm

Shearer was also a genuine world class player, England don't have that right now. Surely you can see the difference between persisting with a player like that and persisting with players that are at the end of their career and going rapidly downhill?

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:41 pm

Kimbo wrote:Shearer was also a genuine world class player, England don't have that right now. Surely you can see the difference between persisting with a player like that and persisting with players that are at the end of their career and going rapidly downhill?

Your point was dropping big names players that don't perform. Gerrard did perform for England, is world class, and was ok against Italy, but had a bad last game against Uruguay. He just had a great season, and you yourself showed that he was one of Europe's best midfielders, so hardly an indication of going downhill fast. Plus there are no alternatives (lampard is playing tonight I hear, not milner or any of the other crazy suggestions).

Shearer didn't score for nearly 2 years as a striker and contributed little else yet was not dropped because he played golf with venables or some shit like that. There were alternatives but persisting with him was fine for you. Basically it seems like your point if that England should drop big names unless they are Newcastle legends.

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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:54 pm

Well this is where we differ, Gerrard has never impressed me for England. I'm not sure there is any criticism of him you are willing to accept though, everything always seems to be someone elses fault.

He did just have a decent season, in which he shat himself in Liverpool's only real pressure game.

The problem with your Shearer comparison is this, we persisted with Shearer and he came good, we have persisted with Gerrard and he has not. You're talking about 12 games with Shearer, friendlies I would add, Gerrard's mediocrity goes way beyond that, and you think he should be given even more time. It's a poor comparison.
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Luis

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Luis on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:02 pm

Kimbo wrote:Well this is where we differ, Gerrard has never impressed me for England. I'm not sure there is any criticism of him you are willing to accept though, everything always seems to be someone elses fault.

He did just have a decent season, in which he shat himself in Liverpool's only real pressure game.

The problem with your Shearer comparison is this, we persisted with Shearer and he came good, we have persisted with Gerrard and he has not. You're talking about 12 games with Shearer, friendlies I would add, Gerrard's mediocrity goes way beyond that, and you think he should be given even more time. It's a poor comparison.

You seem to be refusing to accept Gerrard has has many great games for England based on the fact that he didn't impress you for whatever reason in some games. It's the same as you slaughtering Rodgers and Henderson at one point before they proved you very wrong indeed.

He had more than a decent season - he was asked to play a different role and was in the top 5 players of our season. Why did we only have one real pressure game? We won 11 in a row to get to that position, pressure is when you need to win basically every game of your last 15 to win a title. Im not sure some freak slip is shitting himself but there you go.

You still can't come up with anyone who is ready to step in and replace him - granted, I'm not assed if Gerrard retires from England, it can only be beneficial for Liverpool but it makes me laugh that some think throwing Barkley or Wilshere in is going to make any difference, or Tom Fucking Huddelstone Laughing

The sooner we get rid of Hodgson we will have a bright future with or without Gerrard.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:18 pm

Kimbo wrote:Well this is where we differ, Gerrard has never impressed me for England. I'm not sure there is any criticism of him you are willing to accept though, everything always seems to be someone elses fault.

He did just have a decent season, in which he shat himself in Liverpool's only real pressure game.

The problem with your Shearer comparison is this, we persisted with Shearer and he came good, we have persisted with Gerrard and he has not. You're talking about 12 games with Shearer, friendlies I would add, Gerrard's mediocrity goes way beyond that, and you think he should be given even more time. It's a poor comparison.

I've agreed he had a bad game against Uruguay (criticism accepted), but I say that hodgson's tactics don't suit a guy who played the whole season in a 3-man midfield (this is called a reason, and I am not the only one that thinks so). Plenty of others noticed that England have been short of numbers in midfield.

You say he has never impressed you, not even in the 5-1 win over Germany? Obviously that was not a big enough game for Pierre and TS either.

Slipping means shitting yourself now? You're taking an accident and saying it was somehow his mental fragility now are you? So the fact that he can handle the pressure of taking penalties is not an indication of being able to handle pressure, but slipping is an indication that he can't? Not sure I can accept that even as a theory, let alone the fact that you are trying to portray it as.

Who has argued for Gerrard being given more time? Gerrard has played plenty of good games for England, proven for example by being in the euro2012 team of the tournament. He hasn't been brilliant for England like he has been for Liverpool. But people saying he has never been good for England are clearly wrong and it's basically out of spite rather than any reasoning.

Gerrard should probably retire if he feels like it, and if he decides to continue then he should get picked on merit like anyone else. No-one is arguing anything else.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:40 pm

Luis wrote:
Kimbo wrote:Well this is where we differ, Gerrard has never impressed me for England. I'm not sure there is any criticism of him you are willing to accept though, everything always seems to be someone elses fault.

He did just have a decent season, in which he shat himself in Liverpool's only real pressure game.

The problem with your Shearer comparison is this, we persisted with Shearer and he came good, we have persisted with Gerrard and he has not. You're talking about 12 games with Shearer, friendlies I would add, Gerrard's mediocrity goes way beyond that, and you think he should be given even more time. It's a poor comparison.

You seem to be refusing to accept Gerrard has has many great games for England based on the fact that he didn't impress you for whatever reason in some games. It's the same as you slaughtering Rodgers and Henderson at one point before they proved you very wrong indeed.

He had more than a decent season - he was asked to play a different role and was in the top 5 players of our season. Why did we only have one real pressure game? We won 11 in a row to get to that position, pressure is when you need to win basically every game of your last 15 to win a title. Im not sure some freak slip is shitting himself but there you go.

You still can't come up with anyone who is ready to step in and replace him - granted, I'm not assed if Gerrard retires from England, it can only be beneficial for Liverpool but it makes me laugh that some think throwing Barkley or Wilshere in is going to make any difference, or Tom Fucking Huddelstone Laughing

The sooner we get rid of Hodgson we will have a bright future with or without Gerrard.

Lets talk about the many great games Gerrard has had then...

The 5-1 in Germany was great, the whole team played well that night.<Ale> It's also an example of the difference in performances between tournament games and non-tournament games though.

He has 113 caps and you lads are scraping around for examples.

I've addressed the issue of replacing Gerrard, you want me to name some midfielder that can score 15 a season. I want someone that will fit into the team, preferably an actual DM to give Henderson more freedom, I like the look of Jake Livermore, but he's probably not a big enough name for you. This is the problem with people like you, you can't get your head around the idea that a less talented individual might do a better job for the team.


The Rodgers and Henderson examples are a bit random and irrelevant. My criticism of Rodgers was that he had not built that Swansea team that he was given credit for(fact) and that his Swansea team was pretty negative(also fact). At Liverpool he is building a team for the first time and there has been a big change in his style which is interesting, lets not act like he has defeated the world though, he has built a decent(expensive) team.

On Henderson, at Sunderland I didn't think he had any outstanding attributes, I still don't, but I think he makes a good and consistent work donkey that can probably chip in with the odd goal and assist if given some freedom, England needs that. I thought the transfer fee at the time was mental, and for most clubs it would be, but 20m to one club isn't 20m to another.
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Luis

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Luis on Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:49 pm

Don't you understand that we could try any number of players but if Roy is going to shift Sterling out wide to try and accommodate a clearly underperforming Rooney then what's the point? Do you seriously think a man who can't admit Suarez is world class and can't admit when he's made tactical mistakes is going to get the best out of someone like Livermore?
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:01 pm

Luis wrote:Don't you understand that we could try any number of players but if Roy is going to shift Sterling out wide to try and accommodate a clearly underperforming Rooney then what's the point? Do you seriously think a man who can't admit Suarez is world class and can't admit when he's made tactical mistakes is going to get the best out of someone like Livermore?

I've said we should get rid of Hodgson about half a dozen times in this thread. scratch

We have problems all over the pitch, this is why I don't see the positives that others think they see. We need someone like Deschamps that doesn't pander to big names, he has an idea of how he wants his team to play and what attitude they should have, then he picks the players to match that. With England our managers always pick the best players then try to come up with a way of playing that suits them, it never works.
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:49 pm

110% wrote:

I've agreed he had a bad game against Uruguay (criticism accepted), but I say that hodgson's tactics don't suit a guy who played the whole season in a 3-man midfield (this is called a reason, and I am not the only one that thinks so). Plenty of others noticed that England have been short of numbers in midfield.

You say he has never impressed you, not even in the 5-1 win over Germany? Obviously that was not a big enough game for Pierre and TS either.

Would be best if you gave an example from '04 onwards when the majority of teams had ditched 4-4-2 to go 4-2-3-1 as they realised packing midfield was the way forward and probably a game where Scholes wasn't playing.

110% wrote:
Slipping means shitting yourself now? You're taking an accident and saying it was somehow his mental fragility now are you? So the fact that he can handle the pressure of taking penalties is not an indication of being able to handle pressure, but slipping is an indication that he can't? Not sure I can accept that even as a theory, let alone the fact that you are trying to portray it as

Bottled his biggest pen for England and I don't remember him stepping forward in Istanbul in normal time or shootout despite single-handedly winning the trophy Rolling Eyes

110% wrote:Who has argued for Gerrard being given more time? Gerrard has played plenty of good games for England, proven for example by being in the euro2012 team of the tournament

I don't remember being able to vote for that - not sure Kimbo or TS received their forms either.

These are the kind of experts who voted Sol ahead or Rio at WC'02 and Cannavaro as player of the tournament ahead of Pirlo in '06 so I don't particularly value their opinions.

110% wrote:
He hasn't been brilliant for England like he has been for Liverpool. But people saying he has never been good for England are clearly wrong

Ok, if you say so.

If good means hitting 1 or 2 great crosses/long passes per game and spending the other 89 mins 30 secs giving the ball away constantly and offering no protection to your back 4, then yes - he has been good.
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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Luis on Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:52 pm

I remember when Gerrard bottled the 2006 FA Cup final when he scored a goal from about 25 yards out in the last minute with his left foot to equalise. Fucking bottler.

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:43 pm

Pierre you didn't get your forms because they need people who know something about football to vote, as well as being impartial.

As for gerrard constantly giving the ball away, he had a pass completion rate of 93% against Italy, compared to the amazing pirlo who had 95%. Italy did nothing through the middle where gerrard was playing, so defensively he was fine as well. That was also how he was through the season for liverpool, and for previous England games leading up to this world cup. He had a bad game against Uruguay, but your favourite, Welbeck was even worse lol!
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:39 am

Kimbo wrote:
Luis wrote:Don't you understand that we could try any number of players but if Roy is going to shift Sterling out wide to try and accommodate a clearly underperforming Rooney then what's the point? Do you seriously think a man who can't admit Suarez is world class and can't admit when he's made tactical mistakes is going to get the best out of someone like Livermore?

I've said we should get rid of Hodgson about half a dozen times in this thread. scratch

We have problems all over the pitch, this is why I don't see the positives that others think they see. We need someone like Deschamps that doesn't pander to big names, he has an idea of how he wants his team to play and what attitude they should have, then he picks the players to match that. With England our managers always pick the best players then try to come up with a way of playing that suits them, it never works.

To be fair, Deshcamps can get away with it because he is their sole WC winning captain, and he had more leeway after the 2010 disaster.

Most of England's ex-pros are just content to ride the gravy train.

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by stinger on Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:44 am

Kimbo wrote:
Brian 2468 wrote:Pairings is such an important part in the game CB's we see them screw up the most and blame one or the other. Mertesacker was all over the place for Arsenal until he settled.

The building of partnerships is one key way for now England can improve moving on even more than Managers and coaches. After all the players have to do the business on the field and good quality playing levels start here. From that point coaches can start to create a teams system.

The England defence needs an organiser, Cahill isn't it, Jones and Smalling certainly aren't it, and it's sad that people see bringing back Terry as the answer. For me the obvious answer is Shawcross, but it will never happen as long as he is at the wrong club.
I always thought it's Huth who is much better of Stoke central defense duo. Shawcross is nowhere near Jagielka IMO, I mean - I would be quite terrified if Everton would like to replace Jagielka with him one day.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:49 am

110% wrote:Pierre you didn't get your forms because they need people who know something about football to vote, as well as being impartial.

As for gerrard constantly giving the ball away, he had a pass completion rate of 93% against Italy, compared to the amazing pirlo who had 95%. Italy did nothing through the middle where gerrard was playing, so defensively he was fine as well. That was also how he was through the season for liverpool, and for previous England games leading up to this world cup. He had a bad game against Uruguay, but your favourite, Welbeck was even worse lol!

We get it. You think Gerrard is an untouchable god who still deserves a 95 rating on PES..


The stats only tell half the story ; He has always been crap passing between the lines from deep. Yet you think he's comparable to Pirlo lol!lol!:lol!

Italy played without a no.10 and clearly had a plan to exploit the full backs, however Gerrard was poor at protecting his defence all season long for club and country (no coincidence that they were both poor), but spreading those Hollywood balls make it all ok.

He was woeful against Uruguay (shares blame for both Suarez goals) and at least Welbeck can point out that he wasn't fully fit and he was played out of position.

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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:51 am

stinger wrote:
I always thought it's Huth who is much better of Stoke central defense duo. Shawcross is nowhere near Jagielka IMO, I mean - I would be quite terrified if Everton would like to replace Jagielka with him one day.

They are all not much cop individually. But Stoke are an example of the whole being worth more than the sum of the parts.

Physically strong, big, but lacking mobility?

Then defend deep and narrow.
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Antarion

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Antarion on Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:04 am

England won't be seeded for WC 2018 qualifying it seems.
Here is hope for you for another Munich game Smile

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:14 am

Deluded F*ck wrote:
110% wrote:Pierre you didn't get your forms because they need people who know something about football to vote, as well as being impartial.

As for gerrard constantly giving the ball away, he had a pass completion rate of 93% against Italy, compared to the amazing pirlo who had 95%. Italy did nothing through the middle where gerrard was playing, so defensively he was fine as well. That was also how he was through the season for liverpool, and for previous England games leading up to this world cup. He had a bad game against Uruguay, but your favourite, Welbeck was even worse lol!

We get it. You think Gerrard is an untouchable god who still deserves a 95 rating on PES..


The stats only tell half the story ; He has always been crap passing between the lines from deep. Yet you think he's comparable to Pirlo lol!lol!:lol!

Italy played without a no.10 and clearly had a plan to exploit the full backs, however Gerrard was poor at protecting his defence all season long for club and country (no coincidence that they were both poor), but spreading those Hollywood balls make it all ok.

He was woeful against Uruguay (shares blame for both Suarez goals) and at least Welbeck can point out that he wasn't fully fit and he was played out of position.


No, it seems that no amount of actual facts satisfy people that hate footballers for whatever reason. Pierre says Gerrard constantly gives the ball away, yet he has passing stats in the 90+% ranges, basically proof that Pierre is just writing bollocks. You've decided it's "passing between the lines" that he can't do. If Gerrard's got a 93% pass completion rate then any passing he did between the lines is included in that, therefore he can. Where's your proof exactly that he can't? I quoted Pirlo's stats as people agree that he passes well. So if another midifelder has stats fairly close to his, he can't be completely shit as the two of you would like to make out.

As for liverpool's defence, it was individual defensive errors that let them down, but yeah let's blame Gerrard for that. They were not gifting chance after chance on the wings or through the middle. Even with Cissokho at left back and Johnson at right back, they were far more defensively stable that England.

It seems like you have the same understanding of the game as rooney, he also didn't think that playing on the left he had to support baines. Well done.

Has welbeck not been fully fit his whole life?

110%

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by 110% on Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:18 am

Deluded F*ck wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
Luis wrote:Don't you understand that we could try any number of players but if Roy is going to shift Sterling out wide to try and accommodate a clearly underperforming Rooney then what's the point? Do you seriously think a man who can't admit Suarez is world class and can't admit when he's made tactical mistakes is going to get the best out of someone like Livermore?

I've said we should get rid of Hodgson about half a dozen times in this thread. scratch

We have problems all over the pitch, this is why I don't see the positives that others think they see. We need someone like Deschamps that doesn't pander to big names, he has an idea of how he wants his team to play and what attitude they should have, then he picks the players to match that. With England our managers always pick the best players then try to come up with a way of playing that suits them, it never works.

To be fair, Deshcamps can get away with it because he is their sole WC winning captain, and he had more leeway after the 2010 disaster.

Most of England's ex-pros are just content to ride the gravy train.

Deschamps just picked the best players and left out Nasri because he's a c**t. Hardly a stroke of genius.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:39 pm

stinger wrote:
Kimbo wrote:
Brian 2468 wrote:Pairings is such an important part in the game CB's we see them screw up the most and blame one or the other. Mertesacker was all over the place for Arsenal until he settled.

The building of partnerships is one key way for now England can improve moving on even more than Managers and coaches. After all the players have to do the business on the field and good quality playing levels start here. From that point coaches can start to create a teams system.

The England defence needs an organiser, Cahill isn't it, Jones and Smalling certainly aren't it, and it's sad that people see bringing back Terry as the answer. For me the obvious answer is Shawcross, but it will never happen as long as he is at the wrong club.
I always thought it's Huth who is much better of Stoke central defense duo. Shawcross is nowhere near Jagielka IMO, I mean - I would be quite terrified if Everton would like to replace Jagielka with him one day.

I don't think Huth plays much these days, it's Shawcross and Geoff Cameron in defence.
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Kimbo

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Re: The Next England Squad

Post by Kimbo on Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:45 pm

Deluded F*ck wrote:
stinger wrote:
I always thought it's Huth who is much better of Stoke central defense duo. Shawcross is nowhere near Jagielka IMO, I mean - I would be quite terrified if Everton would like to replace Jagielka with him one day.

They are all not much cop individually. But Stoke are an example of the whole being worth more than the sum of the parts.

Physically strong, big, but lacking mobility?

Then defend deep and narrow.

That's what England need to do IMO. Pack the midfield, play a big man up front, and make the most of set pieces. I said months ago that trying to play a more expansive style wouldn't work, I don't think we have the players.


110% wrote:Deschamps just picked the best players and left out Nasri because he's a c**t. Hardly a stroke of genius.

Picking Debuchy and Sissoko ahead of Sagna and Pogba would get a manager flogged in England.

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