2014 World Cup Semi Finals

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Who will win the World Cup?

[ 2 ]
14% [14%] 
[ 7 ]
50% [50%] 
[ 4 ]
29% [29%] 
[ 1 ]
7% [7%] 

Total Votes: 14
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Fey

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Fey on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:54 pm

Cilesssen is shit at penalties stopping! Should have kept RVP on. Or brought Krul on again! Holland already had a shitty record. Just because they beat Costa Rica on pens that shouldnt become the norm. 

Anyway, in a way its better, though Argentina shouldnt be able to beat Holland, but otherwise sunday would again be but hurt for 40 years. It is the most balanced Argie side I've seen though.
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Axeslammer

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Axeslammer on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:55 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:
DD wrote:There is no justice!

Told you that it's risky to rely on penalties. Wonder why Holland got so cocky in this regard? Not a feasible strategy.

Didn't look to me like we were going for penalties...

Both teams cancelled each other out tactically, we were out of subs early and tired because of the previous marathon.

That yet again a few players were just passengers didn't help either (Sneijder, Wijnaldum & van Persie).

The Argies weren't *brilliant*, but they were good enough and won fair and square ok
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by blutgraetsche on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:56 pm

They could not, not because they did not want to. Holland lacked creativity throughout the tournament and relied on counters and individual brilliance. They looked best against teams that gave them space. Argentina did not.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:57 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:They could not, not because they did not want to. Holland lacked creativity throughout the tournament and relied on counters and individual brilliance. They looked best against teams that gave them space. Argentina did not.

But you said they were playing for penalties.. They can't have wanted to win.. Tried to win.. And tried to play for penalties.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:00 am

It looked as if they wouldn't mind penalties, hence not trying to risk everything. But while they did try to create chances, they often lacked penetration.
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DD

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by DD on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:04 am

blutgraetsche wrote:They could not, not because they did not want to. Holland lacked creativity throughout the tournament and relied on counters and individual brilliance. They looked best against teams that gave them space. Argentina did not.
Only partly true though. We've had so many players not showing up:
Wijnaldum passenger in all games he played, offered fuck all
Depay - is much better than what he has shown
BMI - has not been impressive and a liability
RVP - went missing after being suspended, WTF happened here, we were playing without a striker
Sneijder - aside from his goal, and hitting the post, has been incredibly wasteful all tournament. And again fucking our buildups, making us look like we only rely on Robben. Which because Sneijder played, was true.
Kuyt - Against Argentina wasted all crosses and most attacks. But excellent in everything else and during the entire tourney
Fer - passenger, liability and offered nothing

All other guys did what they had to do, and did it well. Even the kids we brought along were capable of more, they just didn't show it.


Last edited by DD on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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christmasborocooper

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by christmasborocooper on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:05 am

Didn't seem to me like their strategy was to get pens. They just seemed to be shit.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:09 am

In the Costa Rica match it was most apparent that Holland basically played without a midfield. Space between the forwards and the other players was huge at times. Van Gaal built a very efficient counter attacking machine, he got the best out of his squad for sure, but the limitations of that approach were clearly exposed, too.

Still, an excellent World Cup for Holland, could not have been expected. Congrats <Ale>

Congrats to Argentina, too. See you in the final <Ale>
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DD

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by DD on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:10 am

blutgraetsche wrote:It looked as if they wouldn't mind penalties, hence not trying to risk everything. But while they did try to create chances, they often lacked penetration.
Pretty much this. We wouldn't purposely expose our defense, and didn't mind going to penalties. A game like this is the result of that mindset/strat.

Also, both Robben and Messi are mainly dribblers (and sole outlets of attack for the teams), and when it started raining the quality of attack did drop even more. This cannot be underestimated. These two sides during rain was almost guarenteed to end in ET/penalties, as on average even less would get succesfully created.
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DD

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by DD on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:19 am

Also, one for Conmebol Ale
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messiah

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by messiah on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:25 am

Mascherano was an absolute beast today
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Antarion

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Antarion on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:26 am

Re-open the SA vs Europe thread says I. Them Argies slipped through like messi on a wet rainy wednesday night in Stoko Paulo.

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Fey

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Fey on Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:30 am

Say what you want about Argenitna, but the havent conceded a single goal in the knock-out stages. They play like Holland 4 years ago, 4 defenders with two DM's shielding them. Way more defending then they usually do, I thought they would be stupid enough to attack so Holland could counter them to death.

Which they didnt, and then you nullify Holland and you show the weakness of the system. 4 goals against you of which two were bullshit pens is great, really great. 240 minutes without a goal isnt.

van Gaal got his subs all wrong today. RVP wasnt fit, but at least let him take a pen. So he could bring Krul on. Kuyt started well, but he faded a lot.Why start with de Jong if you have Clasie? Clasie, not a minute given, easily adapted to a semi-final. Almost MotM! Vlaar MotM I guess, what a beast performance from him, de Vrij as well, hell the entire tournament he was outstanding for Holland. But from de Vrij I knew he could become great, Vlaar, never knew he had it in him.
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Puro

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Puro on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:43 am

Amigos Brazucas,

The football world was in shock during and immediately after witnessing an event that no one alive had seen before: Brasil was utterly destroyed and humiliated in front of their own fans, in a World Cup semifinal match by the unprecedented score of 7-1! Such an unbelievable result will likely never occur again.

Nearly two thousand years ago, the poet Decimus Iunius Iuvenalis left us this phrase in one of his satires “rara avis in terris nigroque simillima cygno" ("a rare bird in the lands and very much like a black swan"; 6.165). First of all, what happened in Brasil was an atypical occurrence because it was outside of the realm of possibilities – not even Germany expected such incredible result; there was nothing in Brasil’s recent past that would have pointed in a convincing manner to such a probability. Secondly, this will result in an extreme impact throughout Brazilian football. And third, despite its status of rare event, it is our human nature to create explanations in retrospect for this shocking result and even reasons for its predictability.

For instance, the signs were there and have been slowly but surely creeping into today’s Brazilian reality. If Chile and Colombia had sent Brasil to the psychologist for a quick treatment then Germany has sent them to the cemetery to be buried altogether; for this is no hyperbole in the least – Brasil’s current football was destroyed and the ensuing hecatomb is inevitable with swift changes and reforms looming to return Brazilian football to its roots.

Football is not war in which anything goes; it is a sport that promotes good health and values, that’s why it has its rules. Brasil had deviated from this path and resorted to a thuggish style which was highlighted during their game against Colombia recently. It was reminiscent of the legacy of Nobby Stiles and England in 1966 when the English team enjoyed total impunity from the refs during that World Cup that became known as “The Robbery of the Century” – England’s only trophy at the international level.

Nevertheless, Brasil is a multiple winner of World Cups and Copa Américas. Brasil is the most successful country in the history of the game; perhaps that’s why the football world is shocked and convulsing at the sight of this current Brasil side.

I for one would like to see Brasil have a fusion of Tele Santana's magical 1982 and 1986 sides with that of Parreira's 1994 disciplined team. I'm bringing this formula to Perú already.

Saludos

Formerly known as sheva7

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Formerly known as sheva7 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:55 am

Puro, if you had seen brazilian FA press conference you would realize that nothing is going to change. The mother fuckers blame luck.

You were right after all. Ha sido un partido fácil, amigo. Smile

Saludos

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by 110% on Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:24 am

DD wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:It looked as if they wouldn't mind penalties, hence not trying to risk everything. But while they did try to create chances, they often lacked penetration.
Pretty much this. We wouldn't purposely expose our defense, and didn't mind going to penalties. A game like this is the result of that mindset/strat.

Also, both Robben and Messi are mainly dribblers (and sole outlets of attack for the teams), and when it started raining the quality of attack did drop even more. This cannot be underestimated. These two sides during rain was almost guarenteed to end in ET/penalties, as on average even less would get succesfully created.

A lot of comments on here about the Dutch not minding penalties, but looked to me like both sides were too scared to concede the first goal, because they are both capable of holding out with a 1-0 lead. Therefore neither side took the risks necessary to actually win (or lose) the game, and they both accepted going to penalties rather than risk losing in open play. When Huntelaar came on, I thought ok the Dutch are going to try and win, but he wasn't any better than RVP.

I also read that 2 Dutch players refused the first penalty before Vlaar agreed to take it. I agree with what debaser said earlier, best penalty takers have to go first. What's the point of saving Huntelaar for the 5th one if you don't make it that far. There was far less pressure on the Argies 3rd and 4 penalties as they knew they were ahead and missing wouldn't mean the end.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:49 am

The first and the last penalty are most important, that's just the penalty shootout basics everybody should know. The pressure is the highest on both, hence the best penalty takers should take both.
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S4P

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by S4P on Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:33 am

messiah wrote:Mascherano was an absolute beast today

Infinitely better than Busquets. Maybe Barca will finally start playing him in his best position
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Roger Hunt

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Roger Hunt on Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:34 am

That arrogant c**t Van Gaal is trying to claim responsibility for Argentina winning the shootout now...

"I taught Romero how to stop penalties, so that hurts," Van Gaal said. "We were the club to bring him to Europe."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28240152

I think the Dutch need to book an extra plane to bring his ego back from Brazil. He and Man U are made for each other
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Roger Hunt

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Roger Hunt on Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:36 am

Fey wrote: Kuyt started well, but he faded a lot.

Possibly the only time in history that that phrase has been used.
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Axeslammer

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Axeslammer on Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:38 am

S4P wrote:
messiah wrote:Mascherano was an absolute beast today

Infinitely better than Busquets. Maybe Barca will finally start playing him in his best position

Have to say it again : never rated him until yesterday.

Absolutely brilliant defensive work without being dirty : loads of respect ok
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Roger Hunt

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Roger Hunt on Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:47 am

Axeslammer wrote: Have to say it again : never rated him until yesterday.

 Yikes 

Best DM in the world over the last 10 years. Despite being played out of position at his club for the last 5.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:27 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:The first and the last penalty are most important, that's just the penalty shootout basics everybody should know. The pressure is the highest on both, hence the best penalty takers should take both.

Order of penalty takers should be:

1. Best penalty taker
2. 5th best
3. 4th best
4. 3rd best
5. 2nd best

This is how Argentina did it (assuming Palacio would have taken the 5th one). It's also how Holland did it against Costa Rica (assuming Huntelaar was going to take the last one).
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Antarion

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Antarion on Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:29 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:The first and the last penalty are most important, that's just the penalty shootout basics everybody should know. The pressure is the highest on both, hence the best penalty takers should take both.

Order of penalty takers should be:

1. Best penalty taker
2. 5th best
3. 4th best
4. 3rd best
5. 2nd best

This is how Argentina did it (assuming Palacio would have taken the 5th one). It's also how Holland did it against Costa Rica (assuming Huntelaar was going to take the last one).  

If the best one misses his shot, you should reverse that order.
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Super Progress

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Super Progress on Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:03 pm

DD wrote:Team progress

This is the progressive equivalent of the Maradona vs Belgium picture  Biggrin 
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Axeslammer

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Axeslammer on Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:04 pm

Antarion wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:The first and the last penalty are most important, that's just the penalty shootout basics everybody should know. The pressure is the highest on both, hence the best penalty takers should take both.

Order of penalty takers should be:

1. Best penalty taker
2. 5th best
3. 4th best
4. 3rd best
5. 2nd best

This is how Argentina did it (assuming Palacio would have taken the 5th one). It's also how Holland did it against Costa Rica (assuming Huntelaar was going to take the last one).  

If the best one misses his shot, you should reverse that order.

I don't think you can : you have to decide the order before the first player shoots.

We still don't know who the two players are that didn't want to go first, but it's been confirmed that the two first targets didn't want to....

(I don't think I *want* to know who they are)
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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Kimbo on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:07 pm

Roger Hunt wrote:
Axeslammer wrote: Have to say it again : never rated him until yesterday.

 Yikes 

Best DM in the world over the last 10 years. Despite being played out of position at his club for the last 5.

He just looked like another Gattuso while he played in England, now I think he is a better version of Gattuso.

110%

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by 110% on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:27 pm

Kimbo wrote:
Roger Hunt wrote:
Axeslammer wrote: Have to say it again : never rated him until yesterday.

 Yikes 

Best DM in the world over the last 10 years. Despite being played out of position at his club for the last 5.

He just looked like another Gattuso while he played in England, now I think he is a better version of Gattuso.

But Gattuso was also one of the best DMs in the world in that period. The problem is that the bar is not very high for running a lot, kicking people and mouthing off in the last 10 years. Who else was there? Mikel, Flamini, Busquets, Diarra, doesn't really seem like anyone that outstanding.
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Jaime

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by Jaime on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:32 pm

S4P wrote:
messiah wrote:Mascherano was an absolute beast today

Infinitely better than Busquets. Maybe Barca will finally start playing him in his best position

ok

That's what I was saying to a friend, but no, they will never play him ahead of Busquets because he doesn't have "Barsa DNA" and that is fine by me. It is their loss.

I wanted Mascherano to replace Makelele when he left but we went for Gravesen instead. Doh

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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Semi Finals

Post by blutgraetsche on Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:35 pm

Busquets can not be pressed and is an excellent passer. He is a cheating c**t and hence disliked, but for a possession team, he can be a very valuable player.

The question is if Barcelona will continue to be a possession team with the decline of Xavi.

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