2014 World Cup Final

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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:45 pm

"Pass and Move" and "One touch football" are nothing new.

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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:11 pm

It seems like that you don't seem to get my point. All these things are nothing new. What's new is their much increased importance and the difficulty to realise them in the modern game of good tactical organisation, professional fitness regimes and hence increased stamina and athleticism.

It's one thing to play one touch football against a (relatively) slow, static defence, another to move the ball in tight spaces at high speed, being pressed constantly while doing so. Even small teams are organised well these days, hence being able to create surprise moments with quick breaks, intricate and quick passing is essential. That requires a high degree of technical ability and tactical awareness, as the movement on and off the ball has to be coordinated.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:16 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:It seems like that you don't seem to get my point. All these things are nothing new. What's new is their much increased importance and the difficulty to realise them in the modern game of good tactical organisation, professional fitness regimes and hence increased stamina and athleticism.

It's one thing to play one touch football against a (relatively) slow, static defence, another to move the ball in tight spaces at high speed, being pressed constantly while doing so. Even small teams are organised well these days, hence being able to create surprise moments with quick breaks, intricate and quick passing is essential. That requires a high degree of technical ability and tactical awareness, as the movement on and off the ball has to be coordinated.

But we've seen that even top teams are incapable of doing that these days. Bayern last year and Barca in the years before ended up moving the ball from side to side and having to play the percentages by just crossing the ball. Hence, the greater emphasis on athleticism.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:29 pm

Athleticism and passing football are not mutually exclusive, on the contrary. Barcelona's decline started when they neglected the highly important physical aspect of their game, relentless pressing after losing the ball.

Bayern under Heynckes were very atheltic, but very technical, too. They could move the ball in the tightest of spaces with clear purpose and speed. Pep's Bayern could do that for most of the season, too. Even counter attacking teams like Real Madrid have excellent passing ability - they are looking to strengthen this area of their game because they realise the importance.

How else do you want to break up well organised, packed defences? Individual quality helps, of course, a dribbling, a feint, anything to get an advantage for a second, but what then? Once you do that, there are two other opposition players going after you, that's when you need your own team mates to take advantage of the situation and offer passing options.

You can't just overpower teams anymore, the rules are too strict, the game is less physical these days and more technical.

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Axeslammer

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Axeslammer on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:34 pm

Argentina don't *look* very dangerous....but they have proven to *be* so

Might be a tight and interesting final ok
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bluenine

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by bluenine on Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:47 pm

Axeslammer wrote:Argentina don't *look* very dangerous....but they have proven to *be* so

Might be a tight and interesting final ok

If this final were in 7 days time, I would say Argentina are slight favourites. As it stands, with the Argies getting a day less of rest and have had to play 30 minutes more, Germany do have the edge.

Sabella should make some changes to the starting line up. Give Palacio a run, instead of Higuain. And get Di Maria back in there. Some fresh legs are needed. And do not play Aguero, he is looking shite.
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Kimbo

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Kimbo on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:11 pm

Will East Jormans consider this their first world cup?
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:13 pm

East Germany was annexed. They should be happy with anything they get.
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Fey

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Fey on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:21 pm

Kimbo wrote:Will East Jormans consider this their first world cup?

I doubt it, though the reunification happened in 1990 already. But dont forget I believe all their current players come from the west, hench all the Dutch name Very Happy , and there are non East-German clubs in the Bundesliga.

The divide is still alive today, and much stronger then the North/South divide in England.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:26 pm

Nanana, das stimmt so nicht. Dunkeldeutschland produced Ballack, Schneider and Kroos, to name a few recent examples. It's true that their clubs have massive problems, but there is a ton of tradition. Plus, Red Bull is investing heavily in Leipzig, only a matter of time until they progress to the 1. Bundesliga.
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Fey

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Fey on Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:34 pm

Oh very true, loads of traditionsvereins there, Dresden...best fans in Germany perhaps? Utter nutters. Would love to see them in the Bundesliga instead of a certain club Very Happy

But in the end, the money and talent comes from the west. If Holland and Flanders become one again, I hope it wont the same case.
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Murray

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Murray on Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:10 pm

Don't expect too much from the final, there hasn't been a good one since 1986.
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:17 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:Nanana, das stimmt so nicht. Dunkeldeutschland produced Ballack, Schneider and Kroos, to name a few recent examples. It's true that their clubs have massive problems, but there is a ton of tradition. Plus, Red Bull is investing heavily in Leipzig, only a matter of time until they progress to the 1. Bundesliga.

They also produced Olaf Marschall  Smile 
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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:33 am

Jaime wrote:So, a repeat of the first final I remember watching!






Same. Smile



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Antarion

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Antarion on Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:25 am

Just realized both teams have a pope on their side. so in that way its pretty equal. Smile
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:13 am

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
blutgraetsche wrote:Nanana, das stimmt so nicht. Dunkeldeutschland produced Ballack, Schneider and Kroos, to name a few recent examples. It's true that their clubs have massive problems, but there is a ton of tradition. Plus, Red Bull is investing heavily in Leipzig, only a matter of time until they progress to the 1. Bundesliga.

They also produced Olaf Marschall  Smile 

And Sammer, arguably definitely the greatest player ever born in the East. Kroos may replace him though.

East Germany actually had a better, more professional youth setup than West Germany, who relied on sheer numbers for far too long, having more people playing (organised) football on the amateur level / lower leagues than any other country in the world (the DFB (German FA) is the single largest sports federation in the world). They've been putting emphasis on technique and skill in the education way before it became en vogue in the West, where the most skillful players used to be "street footballers".
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Fey

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Fey on Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:24 pm

Might become a game afterall..considering Germamy have a blacker squad,  in how many games did the blacker team hactually win? Though its just Boateng isnt it?
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Forza Italia!Forza Milan!

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Forza Italia!Forza Milan! on Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:21 pm

Antarion wrote:Just realized both teams have a pope on their side. so in that way its pretty equal. Smile

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Cking

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Cking on Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:36 pm

Antarion wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:
Kroos wrote:at least they won`t hide like the netherlands would have done


seriously this must be the worst side in an WC Final since 2002  Suspect

i really don`t rate them at all

i don`t see a single area where they are better than us, yeah you can argue with messi, but he looks garbage without support from his limited team mates

They are weak but most top international teams (excluding Germany) are much weaker than they were 10-15 years ago.

Don't think most are MUCH weaker. Just a bit and the rest of the world got better too.


A enthusiastic fan from the other of the earth, me ,Cking, don't pay much attention to who will win 2014 WC. We are expecting a wonderful game between German and Agentina
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BoBo Vieri 32

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by BoBo Vieri 32 on Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:01 pm

Rizzoli will be the ref.
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Kroos

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Kroos on Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:20 pm

BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:Rizzoli will be the ref.

we never lost with him as ref



the temperature will be around 22 ° perfect for US to play our game, we are the biggest facking runners at this world cup, thx to our modern league, we play this tempo week in week out


i have such a good feeling, we are simply too good, experience and quality all over the field, i doubt that i will get nervous  lol! 
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:23 pm

Messi obviously quick with the ball but you feel they need a very quick striker to run in to space and get behind German CB's and Higuain isn't that.
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Axeslammer

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Axeslammer on Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:39 pm

Kroos wrote:
BoBo Vieri 32 wrote:Rizzoli will be the ref.

we never lost with him as ref



the temperature will be around 22 ° perfect for US to play our game, we are the biggest facking runners at this world cup, thx to our modern league, we play this tempo week in week out


i have such a good feeling, we are simply too good, experience and quality all over the field, i doubt that i will get nervous  lol! 

No worries, with that attitude you've already lost.

Germany won't know what hit them, then the Argies will slow the match beyond belief, then Muller gets a red, the Argies a second goal and match over.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:53 pm

Fortunately, it's highly unlikely that the German team will have the same attitude as Kroos the poster, posting on an online forum of 15 active members...

Actually, Higuain is a very fast forward, not many are faster than him in the tournament. It makes sense to check out the official stats once in a while, quite a few myths can be easily debunked...

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistics/players/distance.html
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Super Progress

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Super Progress on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:06 pm

blutgraetsche wrote:Fortunately, it's highly unlikely that the German team will have the same attitude as Kroos the poster, posting on an online forum of 15 active members...

Actually, Higuain is a very fast forward, not many are faster than him in the tournament. It makes sense to check out the official stats once in a while, quite a few myths can be easily debunked...

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistics/players/distance.html

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abundance

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by abundance on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:08 pm

Kroos wrote:i have such a good feeling, we are simply too good, experience and quality all over the field, i doubt that i will get nervous  lol! 

Oooh Kroos, learn some incantation FFS.
What have you become, a brazilian?

Best team, better fit, less tired, more rest... all signs are against you and if you were able to read them you'd know that you'd need some very good charm to counter them, not this outspoken optimism.

And this is without mentioning the HUGE BAD OMEN of that PERFECT SEMI looming over your head.
Jeez I'd grab my balls so tight any time I think of it if I were you.
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:21 pm

I'm going to believe reality.

But top speed is not the same as acceleration. The latter is more important in football and one of the reasons why Messi is so dangerous. He accelerates with the ball at his feet like no other.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:18 pm

Higuain top end speed is good. He just takes a long while in getting there. When people talk about pace in footy they almost always mean acceleration.
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Kroos

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by Kroos on Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:28 pm

abundance wrote:
Kroos wrote:i have such a good feeling, we are simply too good, experience and quality all over the field, i doubt that i will get nervous  lol! 

Oooh Kroos, learn some incantation FFS.
What have you become, a brazilian?

Best team, better fit, less tired, more rest... all signs are against you and if you were able to read them you'd know that you'd need some very good charm to counter them, not this outspoken optimism.

And this is without mentioning the HUGE BAD OMEN of that PERFECT SEMI looming over your head.
Jeez I'd grab my balls so tight any time I think of it if I were you.

not really, i can classify that match


what me makes confident is our gameplan (we are tactically as advanced as bayern was in 2013), typical german virtues, scoring from corners and that we have 11 players who are really good in what they are doing, while teams like argentina and brasil have 3-4 players in there starting level who are way out of his depth at this level, and a quality side will expose this
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blutgraetsche

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Re: 2014 World Cup Final

Post by blutgraetsche on Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:32 pm

Depends though. That one goal Robben scored vs. Spain in the group stages, when he overtook the Spanish defender in a sprint of 20-30m - here top speed was pretty important, too.

But yes, acceleration usually is more important. Ideally, you have both.

But more important than both is fast thinking, anticipating situations quickly and reacting.

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