Real Madrid CF 2015/16

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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:05 pm

What a disaster that was. It was probably the worst I have seen from the team in many years. The way the game went and the behaviour of the players and Benitez suggest that the rift between them is massive and even worse that the rumours had suggested. I had assumed it was mostly paper talk but it is staggering what went on. It is as if the players and the coach took their war onto the pitch. As I understood it the leading players demanded the team playing in a certain way and I assume they also demanded certain players in the line up. Benitez gave in because I have a hard time seeing him give so many unfit/unready players a place in the line up. Marcelo, Ramos needing surgery but still playing even though we have Pepe, Bale had not played from start in a long time and James the same except Colombia wearing him over 180 mins, Benzema was not even close to ready. The latter example I suspect is instructive because I read Benzema might feature but only for the first 45 mins or coming off from the bench. Instead Benitez refused to take him out even though he looked unfit and immobile from the beginning. I heard fans are blaming the formation and too some extent that is justified but ultimately if the attitude and the fitness is at that level there is nothing that can be done. So there is no footballing points to make from the game and no reason to go through each player. Just take a look at this because it says everything:

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/12274437_1242026695854991_2181979107704678824_n.png?oh=2348144999db6f2ec66225a420352015&oe=56B02401

The players are pulling what the senior Man Utd players pulled under Moyes. It is disgraceful but we can't fire players and Perez won't allow Benitez to bench the players needed and responsible. For this alone Benitez has to go even though I blame the players more than anybody else. I can't see how such a fracturing between coach and team is salvageable.

stinger

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by stinger on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:35 pm

Nice analysis and even better picture bounce

I just dont understand all managers bending to president/player demands, not only in Real, but there it's the most obvious example.

Okay, super flexible manager like Ancelotti can somehow adjust and get away with it, but someone like Benitez should know that he will be sacked sooner than later in club like Real either way. So why not to push things his way, this at least would give him a fighting chance and he would not make a fool of himself.
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Romford Pele

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Romford Pele on Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:44 pm

Tbh it was a surprise to me that Rafa got the job to begin with. He has no idea how to handle big personalities/egos. He's not very personable, it's one of his worst traits, one of Ancelotti's best traits. It's why I wouldn't fancy a Benitez/Mancio at the biggest of clubs.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:17 pm

stinger wrote:Nice analysis and even better picture bounce

I just dont understand all managers bending to president/player demands, not only in Real, but there it's the most obvious example.

Okay, super flexible manager like Ancelotti can somehow adjust and get away with it, but someone like Benitez should know that he will be sacked sooner than later in club like Real either way. So why not to push things his way, this at least would give him a fighting chance and he would not make a fool of himself.

Romford Pele wrote:Tbh it was a surprise to me that Rafa got the job to begin with. He has no idea how to handle big personalities/egos. He's not very personable, it's one of his worst traits, one of Ancelotti's best traits. It's why I wouldn't fancy a Benitez/Mancio at the biggest of clubs.
This war is not just the team vs coach but also team vs club. Ancelotti was a player's manager and they loved him. He let them have too much control and they didn't behave with responsibility. For example they were run down towards the end with no energy and injuries. Also Ancelotti could have used his bench more. The main club doctor, Olmo, was the guy who told the club about Ancelotti's weak training and the player power. He was the snitch and they wanted him fired at the end of the season. Instead physics who were well liked got fired, as did Ancelotti and Olmo got even more power to the chagrin of the players who hate him. The point of Benitez was to buttress this decision and to take charge of the team and discipline them both in a physical(fitness) and a mental sense. Reportedly, the players have banned the doctor from the dressing room this season. Likewise the agent of the club, Benitez, has been unacceptable from the start. The players know he is there to set them straight and whoever was hired at this point to clean up was not going to be accepted by the team. Benitez being the chosen one only made matters worse.

This explains why Benitez has never gotten the benefit of the doubt. Benzema has complained openly about always being subbed but that has been the case since Mourinho. Ramos had a spat with Benitez after the Atletico game. Ronaldo doesn't like the training, tactics or the fact that Benitez immediately went to see Bale when he got hired. He realizes that the club wants to bet on Bale. James criticised Benitez after his Colombia games by noting that "and they(Benitez) say I am not in good form". Recall that James has been injured for quite a while and only got 30 mins vs Sevilla.
The rumour is that the club will stand with Benitez now to get tough on the players. So the powerplay continues.

Benitez has tried to make the team in his image but the players utterly reject this and it shows. We have had moments of good play but it is obvious that there is something missing. I assume this is why he caved in when the players demanded him to change the team for this game. Probably also the reason he left Benzema die on the pitch and seem like he didn't care on the bench. He can break the mutiny if he plays Pepe(Ramos out injured now anyway), and benches Bale/Ronaldo, uses Casemiro/Isco and maybe Jese/Lucas. The last time a galactico was benched it was Jose Camacho putting Beckham in the stands...he got fired the day after. This time might be different because the club might want to get tough. Benching Bale would defeat the point of bringing in Benitez(to get Bale going) but benching Ronaldo would send a huge signal. Perez is a power hungry man but I don't think he is at that point yet.


Last edited by Super Progress on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Romford Pele

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Romford Pele on Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:59 pm

Fecking hell, what a shambles Laughing

But again this doesn't surprise me. Player power at Madrid always seems to have been massive. This only looks like it' heading to one conclusion. Ancelotti may have given them too much power, but at the end of the day, you have to have the players on side or you're fighting a losing battle from the start. I just never thought this would be a relationship that would end well. Benitez isn't great communicator. When Gerrard is talking about the fact Rafa never spoke to him, it would never work with even bigger egos Ale
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:22 pm

As I said in a different time and space it might not have been this bad but Benitez entered war, hired by one side of this war and is expected to mend the wounds between both. Perhaps it was never likely to happen. I don't mind Benitez because coaches aren't supposed to be best buds with players. Gerrard still managed to play quite well under Benitez so I think it is a sorry excuse to say "the couch isn't touchy feely enough". Coaches like Ancelotti are not the norm but the players are treating it as such. On the other hand nobody(players, fans, media) thought firing Ancelotti was a good idea and they did it anyway. The club made a mistake but the logic is to keep pushing now and not lose face. Benitez will likely be fired but the war will continue and we will probably have write off this season. A complete clusterfuck
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messiah

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by messiah on Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:45 pm

We is it that people believe Rafa didn't pick the team he wanted?, probably these rumors are true, but it strikes me that he simply wanted to put all is most talented players on the field in a game like this, which in not uncommon among managers, when it comes to these big games, they always try to have thier most talented players on the pitch to decide the little moments that tends to win games like these.

I say this because, besides carvalho for danilo, I don't see who on the bench could have made any difference in the game, Casemiro and jese would have made little difference. He pretty much played "his" XI against psg and sevilla, and Madrid were not much better than they were against Barcelona.

As it relates to power struggles and interpersonal relationships, that has been par for the course at Madrid since time immemorial, and won't change anytime soon, which explains there relative lack of success in modern times, but I remember fans here and else where stating Perez isn't all that bad for various reasons, so they seem pretty happy with the dysfunction
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messiah

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by messiah on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:27 pm

Don't Madrid fans think its time to start to think about selling ronaldo?, I have maintain for a while now, that his goals doesn't add much to the overall success of the team, which is evident given the lack of success the team has had despite him scoring almost 400 goals for Madrid, he simply doesn't score when it really matters on a consistent enough basis, and at this point in time he had basiscally become a tap in marchent.

I personally think the team would be better off with a play that pay score 30 goals in all competition, and allow the manager more tactically flexibility, that to continue with ronaldo, it would also help with the dressing room as well.

It's also time to call bale a bust, especially if he continues like this until the end of the season, I am sure he would do exceptionally well in the prem, but LA liga isn't for him, kinda like LA liga and barcelona wasn't for cesc.

But then again it would all turn around by the end of the season with you guys winning the double, one never truly knows
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Cristiano

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Cristiano on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:57 pm

messiah wrote:Don't Madrid fans think its time to start to think about selling ronaldo?, I have maintain for a while now, that his goals doesn't add much to the overall success of the team, which is evident given the lack of success the team has had despite him scoring almost 400 goals for Madrid, he simply doesn't score when it really matters on a consistent enough basis, and at this point in time he had basiscally become a tap in marchent.

I personally think the team would be better off with a play that pay score 30 goals in all competition, and allow the manager more tactically flexibility, that to continue with ronaldo, it would also help with the dressing room as well.

It's also time to call bale a bust, especially if he continues like this until the end of the season, I am sure he would do exceptionally well in the prem, but LA liga isn't for him, kinda like LA liga and barcelona wasn't for cesc.

But then again it would all turn around by the end of the season with you guys winning the double, one never truly knows

I actually agree with everything you have said there apart from that bit, don't be silly 😂😂😂
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Cristiano

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Cristiano on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:02 pm

I'm tired of saying the same things, people just ignore it. I have been saying it forever, WHY do we have 4/5 players standing in a straight line in between the opposition defence and no one willing to build up the play. Anything else I'm tired of hearing. Explain and solve that shit and we might see progress.

Ronaldo definetly must f**k off asap now. Well done for the goal scoring record but he is doing more harm than good. I used to defend Bale until now when he demands to play in the middle, this ain't fucking Wales mate piss off.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:35 pm

Perez always pushes the shirt selling policy a bit too far.

Politics is unavoidable at a club like RM, but logic goes out of the window sometimes.

Carlo was the perfect coach for RM just like VDB.

Rafa was always going to be a disaster.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Cristiano on Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:11 pm

Deluded F*ck wrote:Perez always pushes the shirt selling policy a bit too far.

Politics is unavoidable at a club like RM, but logic goes out of the window sometimes.

Carlo was the perfect coach for RM just like VDB.

Rafa was always going to be a disaster.

I just don't see a way out, I hate Rafa however sacking him will be minimal improvement as the real problem Perez is still there. If Perez were to resign he would then proceed to sabotage the running of the club from outside as he did before. It a lose lose situation.

The man has no shame or any sense of reality, to have the cheek to come out and try to blame the media for his problem is outrageous. And the vote of confidence for Benitez is even more laughable when the ones for Jose and Carlo resulted in a sacking shortly after. The situation is a joke. And what really amplifies it is that Barca have been in their best period of their History in the last 10 years. It was always going to be difficult but we have really done our bit to help them out lol!
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:14 pm

This isn't about Perez selling shirts except for buying Bale when there was no room for him while Ronaldo was around. Aside from that this has mostly been about a powerplay. This time it is the club vs the team. Both sides have a points and I can see why Perez wouldn't want to back down and give in to the players. It is not unreasonable to not have the players running the show. Personally I would fire Benitez and hire Zidane because he would be a popular choice among the players and Perez likes him. That way they can keep it together until the summer and have the battle fought out.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:28 pm

So Benitez left several players on the bench. Hard to say how much of this was punishment and how much benching unfit players. He had the pretence to bench some players for that reason so we will see how tough he gets. Perez has given him full support and I'm wondering if this means an opportunity to lay down the gauntlet on even the big players. More likely Perez simply wants the big stars playing but with a firm control of the players by Benitez.

Either way Ronaldo was seen running and chasing players down. The next couple of games will give a better indicator if the players are bending to his will or not. I have my doubts. Either way it was good to see Kovacic and Casemiro in the line up. Terrible ending of course but I was very surprised that they were playing until then. I was calculating for a loss. Unfortunately we don't have any tough games for a couple of weeks so they can probably cruise for a while.
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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Cristiano on Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:22 pm

Playing an ineligible player. Last minute transfer f**k ups. You can't make this up. This club is the laughing stock of football.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:50 am

lol!
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Murray

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Murray on Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:22 pm


stinger

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by stinger on Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:25 pm

I guess it's time to start "Lewandowski for Real" summer saga. Opinions?
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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Cristiano on Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:51 pm

The player and Bayern don't want the move, a new contract offer is probably the reason for this non story.

Besides I'm sure a lot of people will say he is better than Benzema, but for me I prefer Benzema. It would be another flashy Perez signing that would add nothing to the team, same shit different year.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:13 pm

As long as we have Ronaldo+Bale we desperately need Benzema as a striker. If Ronaldo were to leave we could probably survive with a more classic striker like Lewandowski, who is pretty all round anyway. So I wouldn't mind but I doubt there is anything to this story and unless Benzema is going to jail then there is no reason to replace him.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by stinger on Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:39 pm

stinger wrote:I guess it's time to start "Lewandowski for Real" summer saga. Opinions?
With Ancelotti replacing Guardiola I now also don't think Lewandowski will leave - probably he will be curious to play for the new coach and Ancelotti also will do his best to keep him.
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Murray

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Murray on Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:31 pm

Benitez appears to have been fired. Not official yet though.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:02 pm

Even though I like Benitez it was the right decision. However unfair the players simply don't respond to him and if we are going to salvage anything from this season it is the best thing to do. Now we can test out the players until summer and see if there is any change in behaviour among them. It is like Balague wrote on twitter after the game "In my eyes, Real Madrid feels like a team who is livng the end of an era (even if many are young). Some key players lack hunger" but I hope the fans don't let Pere off the hook for this one...or the players. The booing of Ronaldo last week suggests a general revulsion with just about everyone.

Thought Benitez was right to put in Kovacic instead of Isco/James even if it didn't work out in the end but hard to grasp how Isco has gotten so little playing time since he did so well for Benitez in the beginning of the season. There must have been a falling out between them.

Hard to say wat Zidane can do. On one hand the biggest problem seems to be motivation at the moment with tactics coming second. He might well lift the spirits somewhat but I doubt it can be as harmonious as under Ancelotti with all that has been going on. The tactics question is a no go since Perez won't allow for anyone to bench one of Ronaldo or Bale(who was good against Valencia). Considering Ronaldo's poor form I doubt he can convince Bale to play in Ancelotti's more balanced 4-4-2 again.


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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Luis on Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:33 pm

4 points off the top and comfortably through in Europe....quite insane really even by Madrid's standards.

If anything sums up the disgrace of modern day football this is it.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:04 pm

Sure but everybody can see that this isn't working at all. I'm a fan of the guy but I know when to cut the losses. That was also my impression in Mourinho's last season here. Here I blame the players and the club more than Benitez but that doesn't change that the players won't play for him. Perez has built a team that needs a man manager to handle and since Benitez is not allowed to bench the big stars there is no point keeping him.

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by stinger on Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:17 pm

Super Progress wrote:Sure but everybody can see that this isn't working at all. I'm a fan of the guy but I know when to cut the losses. That was also my impression in Mourinho's last season here. Here I blame the players and the club more than Benitez but that doesn't change that the players won't play for him. Perez has built a team that needs a man manager to handle and since Benitez is not allowed to bench the big stars there is no point keeping him.
I will never understand this one.

Benitez should see it will never work for him with big stars playing all the time and soon he will be gone. So he should do what he thinks is right, find his preferred team core and then eventually give a reason for Perez to fire him. At least would know he did his best.

Instead he tried to find a compromise, listen to Perez... and was still fired. Managers with poor man management skills will never succeed when compromising, tactics and system is what can save them. Chance is still small, but IMO bigger than trying to make stars happy.

Thats why I am a longtime fan for van Gaal, even if he had huge ups and downs during his career. But at least he is trying to do what he thinks is right every time.

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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:23 pm

Been wondering the same thing. It is no surprise that his best period is when he had Jese/Isco/Lucas working the flanks for him and Casemiro to protect the midfield. If he had tried this again in the last month he would have at least exposed some of the incoherence with the squad and the blame would have been directed more towards the club and players. I hope he comes out and gives a honest assessment of what happened.

Marcotti said it in The Times:


It is not that he was unfit to manage Real Madrid. It is that he was clearly the wrong choice to take charge of this particular group of players at this particular time

...

The resulting lopsidedness is what ultimately cost Carlo Ancelotti his job last May and it is what Benitez faced when he took over in the summer. In previous jobs, the former Liverpool manager showed a willingness to challenge the club and demand signings who would fit his system. Lacking the political clout to do so at the Bernabeu, he chose to bow his head and try to make it work.

But "making it work" required a diplomat and ego-massager, someone capable of keeping the likes of Gareth Bale and Cristiano Ronaldo happy and productive, while persuading attacking midfielders such as Toni Kroos and Luka Modric to operate as humble ball-winners.

Benitez simply is not that kind of manager. Feelings were hurt.

...

But even allowing for his inexperience, there are legitimate concerns over his personality. As a player, he was the prototypical strong, silent type. He was introverted and taciturn, looked up to for his workrate and ability rather than loved for his leadership. It is not a coincidence that, until a few years ago, he insisted he had no interest in management.

And that could be a problem in a role that is largely about communication. It's communication that is both outward -- being the face of Real Madrid to the outside world -- and inward, handling sensitive egos. This is where Benitez fell short and where Ancelotti and Mourinho, the past two managers to win silverware at Madrid, excelled. It's also a job that requires either outright control -- the kind Mourinho enjoyed early on -- or biblical patience, as Ancelotti displayed. Zidane is unlikely to have the former and, at least as a player, displayed little of the latter
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Cristiano

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Cristiano on Sun May 08, 2016 2:24 pm

All Fitness and Medical staff need to be sacked effective immediate. Absolutely useless, these players always drop like flies at the crucial part of the season for the last 2 seasons at least.
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Super Progress

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Re: Real Madrid CF 2015/16

Post by Super Progress on Mon May 09, 2016 4:26 pm

Yeah it has been pretty bad and credit to Zizou that it hasn't cost us really in terms of points. I like that he has rotated as well and played it safe when a player was shaky.

With that said I don't get why we have only gotten more vulnerable organisationally in the team. The current absolutely needs Casemiro to not haemorrhage chances left and right and even with him it is a problem. Yet under Ancelotti we played either Di Maria-Alonso-Modric(1st season) or Isco-Modric-Kroos-Bale/James-Kroos-Isco 2nd season) and we looked far safer and better. Only times we have looked kind of solid were against City away and Barcelona away.

Great to see us in the final but for the above mentioned reasons I don't see how we will win unless Atletico chokes a bit which they did in the last final where I don't remember a single big chance created against us. The latest City game was unbelievably easy for us and we hardly did anything.
The only thing is that the previous games against them have been fairly even and Bale is looking good quite good at the moment and so is Modric. I wonder if Benzema will get proper fit and in form for the game because in the last couple of games he hasn't looked too good.

Great sending off for Arbeloa


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