Premier League 3/4 October 2015

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Luis

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Luis on Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:55 pm

Kimbo wrote:Rodgers seemed to completely abandon what worked for him at Swansea, that was an incredibly dull and defensive team that passed it around the halfway line endlessly, and if they ended the game with the most possession he would see it as a success, regardless of the actual result.

It will be interesting to see where he goes next, I think he's too much of an egomaniac to drop down a level in England, I see him following Moyes abroad.

He's taking time out but I think he needs to either move abroad or go to a club with less expectation.

I've mentioned this before but I think 3 key things cost Rodgers in the end:

1) Defensive organisation. It became the norm to expect us to ship embarassing goals near enough every game. Defending set pieces was shameful. There was no communication between keeper and the centre backs and playing Lovren over Sakho for so long was nothing short of lunacy. Mignolet was a poor signing. Rodgers seemed to realise this when he dropped him 'indefinitely' for one game last season but then instead of replacing him, he signed Bogdan who is equally not up to the standard. Mignolet epitomises everything wrong with our club over the last 5 years - poor quality, poor mentality and certainly not good enough to start for us.

2) Lack of big game management. We won 1 away game against the top 4 during Rodgers' tenure and that was at Old Trafford when United were managed by Moyes. It's an awful record; we had already lost those games before we walked on the pitch. The Gerrard slip wasn't surprising - we just always fuked up those big game situations.

3) Poor transfers. The only good buys were Coutinho and Sturrdge. A few from this summer may prove to be good as well but so much dross signed and sold quickly. Origi looks a prime example of this. Markovic and Balotelli were laughable signings - 40 million dumped down a drain.

I think it all rested on winning that title. Perhaps that would have secured the winning mentality in the squad and Rodgers certainly would have been afforded more time after that but it just wasn't meant to be.

Still more enjoyable than Dalglish and Hodgson. Better football played than Houllier in some respects but doesn't come close to Rafa.
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Puro

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Puro on Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:15 pm

WOW! Shocked

Bielsa started at 151 odds with Dalglish, Pellegrini, Jol, McClaren and Fowler. Dropped last night to 101 and that's where I got him. Right now William Hill got Bielsa at 34. Shocked Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:16 pm

Luis wrote:
Fey wrote:Dont be silly now Luis, you do not have a 4th place squad.

City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Utd and maybe even Spurs have a better squad.

Now this is not saying you cant end 4th, but on paper the rest have better squads.

United and Spurs almost certainly do not have better squads.

On paper we should have easily finished 4th last year and should be again this year. Rodgers' inability to set up defensively or tactically cost us.

Look at United yesterday. They came up against quality and were destroyed.
United have a better squad than us.
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Luis

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Luis on Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:31 pm

Corrupt real mierda wrote:
Luis wrote:
Fey wrote:Dont be silly now Luis, you do not have a 4th place squad.

City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Utd and maybe even Spurs have a better squad.

Now this is not saying you cant end 4th, but on paper the rest have better squads.

United and Spurs almost certainly do not have better squads.

On paper we should have easily finished 4th last year and should be again this year. Rodgers' inability to set up defensively or tactically cost us.

Look at United yesterday. They came up against quality and were destroyed.
United have a better squad than us.

My joint team would be:

-------------De Gea-----------------

Clyne------Smalling-----Sakho--------Shaw--------

-------------Henderson----Herrera-----------------

-----Sturridge-------Mata----------Coutinho--------

----------------------Benteke----------------------

6 players from Liverpool.

Don't think I'd have Martial or Rooney over Benteke right now.

Depay hasn't impressed me that much.



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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:14 pm

Aguero is the best CF in PL obviously, but Ighalo is deffo the most skilful and entertaining.

CF's generally have pace and sound technique rather than skill - AM & WF will usually be the most skilful but can't see a CF with more skill than Ighalo in this league.

We still require some tweaking though.

Arsenal next at home - we have scored 1 and conceded 1 (a pen) in 4 home games Shocked - may suit us to have the away team taking the game to us, hopefully Ibarbo starts.

I think Behrami is back which is bad news for any Arsenal midfielders who enjoy the use of their legs - Gomes, Cathcart, Capoue and Ighalo the stars for us so far.

Got me thinking - I dreaded Cathcart coming back because he was so shit when he was on loan but then he was only 20 and is now 26.

CB is an experience position - maybe one of the reasons LVG plays with control is to try and protect CB's.

Smalling is 25 with 120 (approx) league appearances.
Blind 25 with approx 150
Jones is 23 with approx 130

last years CL finalists:

Bonucci 28 - 200
Barzagli 34 - 375

Pique 28 - 200
Masch 31 - 300


2 things stand out - 1 theirs are more experienced but the gap in apps is closer than you would expect with the age diff.

Ours clearly get played too much when they are young which is bad physically (see Rooney & Owen).

The more you play, the better your decision making becomes which is why great Milan and Spain teams of recent times always had so much experience.

We have lost all concept of age in English football and its annoying when people like McManaman criticise the end product and decision making of people like Sterling as if they should be judged against footballers in their peak years Lukaku gets too much as well.

With Sterling they will say you expect him to deliver straightaway when you pay that much but there is no amount you can pay for a 20 yo to stop being a 20yo.

Kane has come in for loads of stick too despite the fact he won't be peaking for ages and, if anything, this season is a plus as it shows how much he can contribute when not scoring (Old Trafford in particular).

Look at Toni and Drogba exploding at 25 having done not much previously, and now Ighalo.

Dele Alli is 19, has made 4 top flight appearances and has 2 u21 caps and has made full England squad - no other respectable country does this and yet you will not see 1 dissenting voice in the press ?
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Isco Benny

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Isco Benny on Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:15 pm

Deluded F*ck wrote:Noooooooooooooooo

I wanted Spurs to have the opportunity to end him in 2 weeks. Grr


ok This.

There were many reasons to dislike Rodgers, but for me the way he talked about how Spurs should be title chasers after our spending back after the Bale sale - and in the process sneakily piled pressure on AVB - was shoddy, graceless and arrogant. Particularly when he completely changed his tune the following summer and urged everyone to show patience after his 120million spending spree post Suarez sale.

My money is on him being Villa manager in November, when they sack Tim.
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debaser

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by debaser on Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:46 pm

Isco Benny wrote:My money is on him being Villa manager in November, when they sack Tim.

In interviews after Stoke, Tim Sherwood talked about Tim Sherwood in the third person and basically admitted he's just flailing around picking different team every match hoping to get lucky with players/formation. Not sure he'll make it till November.

I guess by process of elimination, us or Newcastle are the most likely next destinations for Rodgers if he stays in England. But he's probably in a position where he can wait a bit, and won't want to take on a job that can seriously damage reputation. Would be a big risk joining any of the bottom 3 - big clubs who have been in a mess for several years and all seem to be manager's graveyards.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by christmasborocooper on Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:46 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:Aguero is the best CF in PL obviously, but Ighalo is deffo the most skilful and entertaining.

CF's generally have pace and sound technique rather than skill - AM & WF will usually be the most skilful but can't see a CF with more skill than Ighalo in this league

cheers

Watford are back, Pierre is back, the sensationalist hype is back!

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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:50 pm

christmasborocooper wrote:
Pierre Littbarski wrote:Aguero is the best CF in PL obviously, but Ighalo is deffo the most skilful and entertaining.

CF's generally have pace and sound technique rather than skill - AM & WF will usually be the most skilful but can't see a CF with more skill than Ighalo in this league

cheers

Watford are back, Pierre is back, the sensationalist hype is back!


Best response would be to name a more skilful striker, no ?
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by christmasborocooper on Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:52 pm

Nope. Best response is to encourage you

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:26 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:
Pierre Littbarski wrote:Aguero is the best CF in PL obviously, but Ighalo is deffo the most skilful and entertaining.

CF's generally have pace and sound technique rather than skill - AM & WF will usually be the most skilful but can't see a CF with more skill than Ighalo in this league

cheers

Watford are back, Pierre is back, the sensationalist hype is back!


Best response would be to name a more skilful striker, no ?

Alexis Sanchez isn't a striker but he is a forward, and you said Aguero is the best Centre Forward in the DPL. IMO Alexis Sanchez is the better forward, he does everything better than Aguero apart from goalscoring.

Plus Sanchez is more proven in the CL and has been brilliant at 2 World Cups and 2 Copa America's. While Aguero has done nothing of note at international level.
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Kimbo

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Kimbo on Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:46 pm

debaser wrote:
Isco Benny wrote:My money is on him being Villa manager in November, when they sack Tim.

In interviews after Stoke, Tim Sherwood talked about Tim Sherwood in the third person and basically admitted he's just flailing around picking different team every match hoping to get lucky with players/formation. Not sure he'll make it till November.

I guess by process of elimination, us or Newcastle are the most likely next destinations for Rodgers if he stays in England. But he's probably in a position where he can wait a bit, and won't want to take on a job that can seriously damage reputation. Would be a big risk joining any of the bottom 3 - big clubs who have been in a mess for several years and all seem to be manager's graveyards.

No chance we would go for him, he was sacked by Liverpool, not Brentford or MK Dons.
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Isco Benny

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Isco Benny on Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:01 am

Pierre Littbarski wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:
Pierre Littbarski wrote:Aguero is the best CF in PL obviously, but Ighalo is deffo the most skilful and entertaining.

CF's generally have pace and sound technique rather than skill - AM & WF will usually be the most skilful but can't see a CF with more skill than Ighalo in this league

cheers

Watford are back, Pierre is back, the sensationalist hype is back!


Best response would be to name a more skilful striker, no ?

Sturridge. And if someone accuses me of English hype, you can sit on a dick - have no love for the fella myself, his stupid celebration dance and obvious arrogance is exceptionally off putting, but when fit he is in my opinion the 2nd most naturally gifted number 9 in the league behind Aguero.
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Deluded F*ck™

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Deluded F*ck™ on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:54 am

I think Sanchez and Silva are the best 2 players in the league.

Aguero is in danger of following Zlatan and RVP in terms of a disparity between his domestic club performances and his continental/intl output.

Completely agree with Pierre on us doing nothing to protect our young talents. Many Spurs fans are pretty pissed that Alli got called up.
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Super Progress

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Super Progress on Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:27 am

Deluded F*ck wrote:I think Sanchez and Silva are the best 2 players in the league.

Aguero is in danger of following Zlatan and RVP in terms of a disparity between his domestic club performances and his continental/intl output.

Completely agree with Pierre on us doing nothing to protect our young talents. Many Spurs fans are pretty pissed that Alli got called up.
You're right but I wonder much is due to being dragged down by City's poor mentality in the competition. He was good at Atletico I think and he got a hatrick against Bayern last year for example. City resembles Inter pre-Mourinho where you would think they would do it better based on the team but no matter the players/coaches/tactics they seem to be flailing. So I give him the benefit of the doubt.
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Fey

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Fey on Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:14 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:
Pierre Littbarski wrote:Aguero is the best CF in PL obviously, but Ighalo is deffo the most skilful and entertaining.

CF's generally have pace and sound technique rather than skill - AM & WF will usually be the most skilful but can't see a CF with more skill than Ighalo in this league

cheers

Watford are back, Pierre is back, the sensationalist hype is back!


Best response would be to name a more skilful striker, no ?

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:43 pm

Super Progress wrote:
Deluded F*ck wrote:I think Sanchez and Silva are the best 2 players in the league.

Aguero is in danger of following Zlatan and RVP in terms of a disparity between his domestic club performances and his continental/intl output.

Completely agree with Pierre on us doing nothing to protect our young talents. Many Spurs fans are pretty pissed that Alli got called up.
You're right but I wonder much is due to being dragged down by City's poor mentality in the competition. He was good at Atletico I think and he got a hatrick against Bayern last year for example. City resembles Inter pre-Mourinho where you would think they would do it better based on the team but no matter the players/coaches/tactics they seem to be flailing. So I give him the benefit of the doubt.

What about his international performances then?
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:11 pm

Like banging your head against a wall this.

I wasn't saying he is better than Aguero, Sturridge, Pelle - I was saying he is more skilful (ball control, dribbling, tricks - proper ones that are technically difficult and have a purpose not Henry/runaldo ones that for show).

Aguero and Sturridge have better technique/stike a ball better sure and Pelle is a more physical presence.

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Fey

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Fey on Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:35 pm

TBH I hardly watched him.

Does Berghuis actually play for you guys?
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by christmasborocooper on Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:36 pm

Is he more skillful than Bouazza?
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by christmasborocooper on Tue Oct 06, 2015 8:05 pm

I'm going to say Bolasie is the most skilful striker
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Pierre Littbarski

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Pierre Littbarski on Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:19 pm

christmasborocooper wrote:Is he more skillful than Bouazza?

Yes, Bouazza quicker, stronger and a more vicious strike but nowhere near as skilful.

christmasborocooper wrote:I'm going to say Bolasie is the most skilful striker

He is a winger though who has filled in at CF a couple of times.
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Kimbo

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Kimbo on Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:30 pm

Bolasie is push and run if you ask me anyway.
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christmasborocooper

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by christmasborocooper on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:52 pm

They're playing Bolasie there ahead of actual CF's. They've made him a CF. And a skillful one.
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Kimbo

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Kimbo on Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:16 pm

He turned Bolasie into a forward and Cisse into a winger, if any of it ends up working it's pure luck.

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Guest on Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:22 pm

Sergio Aguero has done his hamstring in again for Argentina.
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The Prfessr

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by The Prfessr on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:40 pm

Pierre Littbarski wrote:
christmasborocooper wrote:
Pierre Littbarski wrote:Aguero is the best CF in PL obviously, but Ighalo is deffo the most skilful and entertaining.

CF's generally have pace and sound technique rather than skill - AM & WF will usually be the most skilful but can't see a CF with more skill than Ighalo in this league

cheers

Watford are back, Pierre is back, the sensationalist hype is back!


Best response would be to name a more skilful striker, no ?

Martial?

We've only seen goals at ManU so far but he's a far better footballer than a goalscorer(saw a bit of Monaco after our encounters last season). Great combination of pace, skill and technique.
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debaser

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by debaser on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:25 pm

Has Allardyce been Sunderland manager before? Feels like he has.
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Kimbo

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Kimbo on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:46 pm

debaser wrote:Has Allardyce been Sunderland manager before? Feels like he has.

He was director of pies there for a year during the 80s, so whenever Sunderland need a new manager their fans claim he has a connection with the club and would like to go back.
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Fey

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Re: Premier League 3/4 October 2015

Post by Fey on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:48 pm

Fat Sam is back, I feel for him cause deep down im sure he hoped for that Liverpool deal.

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